the stables and non drinkers

PeakOutput

hey so just had a few bad experiences the last few nights and was wondering if anyone else had experienced the same thing

every now and again i give up booze for a while and right now i havnt drank since new years

went to the stables the other night and out of 5 2 of us werent drinking so i got water then the other lad ordered a water right after me and got a little smart comment of 'i am trying to run a business here' and then he got the water

we were outside and 3 times someone came out and walked around our table, i guess trying to make sure we werent just using the glasses to mix drinks outside, i can understand that i guess so thats not a problem

went to the stables again last night asked for water of a different guy and got it no bother. an hour or two later went up again and the same guy from the first night asked me did i bring back my glass, i asked him was he serious and he said ye so i went i got the glass and gave it to him and he threw it at one of the other barmen and told him to get it for me

so at this stage this guys attitude is really pissing me off, if i dont want to drink and that annoys him he can go **** himself right after serving me like he serves everyone else.

later on in the night i was talking to one of the new international students and i wanted another drink so i asked her to ask for it instead of me having to put up with his **** again. just as she ordered it a friend of mine came over and said there was a girl getting sick in the bathroom and could i ask for some water for her so i told her to get two, she asked for two and then he looked at me and just said no. i said i need two pints of water and he said no again i asked him what the problem was and he said he couldnt be bothered giving out water and then smiled so i assumed he was joking but he wasnt and just stood there waiting for someone else to order off him

now, look im not a non drinker i just happen to be taking a break, i understand irelands ridicolous drink culture and take part in it regularly but this sort of attitude really ****ing annoys me especially with all the drink responsibly campaigns and stuff that go on at the moment and the SU is trying to promote responsible drinking and stuff

im not going to say who the barman was as i havnt decided if i want to moan about it any more but just wondering if anyone has heard of anything like that happening in the stables before?

citizenerased1

yeah som ignorant fecks work there alright!

danlen

yeah his attitude seems a bit crappy alrite but i can see where he is generally coming from. giving someone a glass of water is usually no problem but most places don't like continually giving them out for the night for a few reasons. in fact you're not actually bringing the pub any custom despite being there all night. i actual found one pub where they will only sell you bottled water rather than give out tap water.

i'm not condoning hi attitude as its his job to make the pub a welcoming place. perhaps even if you just bought one bottle of water at the start of the night and then got a pint or two of tap water later in the night it would seem more acceptable?

TheInquisitor

He has to pay the staff to pour you the water
He has to pay for the glasses to be cleaned
He has to pay water rates

At the very least you could have bought a coke or lucozade. Being off the drink doesn't mean water only.

It has nothing to do with the drinking culture. It has to do with the fact that your asking multiple times for glasses of free water and contributing nothing

PeakOutput

1. you will note that i mentioned nothing about free water, if he had of said sorry i gotta charge you 50cent or whatever from now on i could live with that

2. soft drink prices are extortionate and i also did buy soft drinks both nights, red bull which i bought both nights, is 3.60 wereas i think its 2 euro maybe less in a shop

3. there are no extra costs associated with serving me a pint of water, the staff are being paid anyway, the glasses will be washed anyway and the water rates will be paid anyway

4. if it wasnt an on campus bar i could understand it more but as far as im concerned im a student in the university and its an on campus bar for students, if i wanted to sit from opening to closing watching tv drinking their tap water i should be able to

5. he wouldnt serve the water to me even after he was told there was a girl in the toilet who needed it

6. he has now ensured that at every opportunity i will encourage my group of friends to use the scholars instead and that could be anywhere from 1 - 15/20 drinkers

7. the students union gives them a huge amount of business and it is not in students best interests to have the bar behave like that

and while im sure he dosnt give a**** about any of the above it dosnt fit with his 'im trying to run a business here' excuse as it is NOT good business but it does fit with my he just an ignorant **** thesis

seanman is me

yip one or two of them in there are completely ignorant , full of smart comments, funny at first then you chat back and they refuse to serve you or throw ya out! I asked for a hot whiskey there before xmas - no, we are too busy!! they had 3 behind the bar !

TheTownie

Its well known that Stables are strict with things like that. At this stage you're to expect a smart comment in situations like that.

Although after the first drink I would have just gone to the tap in the corner by the food counter rather than having to put up with the guff from the barman.

Unfortunately its part of a wider issue. There are many employees in Ireland who lack an acceptable level of courtesy.

Satanta

Much of the service industry in Ireland is lacking when you compare it wth somewhere like the states. I travel there a few times a year and the staff in any of the bars or restaurants that I have been in there really go out of their way to be as helpfull and pleasant as possible. Albeit a significant part of their income is from tips.

I myself am a non drinker and hate paying the high prices for soft drinke. I normally ask for a glass of water with blackcurrant and pay for the dash or whatever. May take the sting out of it for the barman. Although... that guy you mentioned sounds like a complete pr*ck. I worked in a bar many years ago and would never dream of treating customers like that. Fair enough you may not have been paying for the water, but you were part of a group who were all paying for drinks.

PeakOutput

TheTownie wrote: »

Its well known that Stables are strict with things like that. At this stage you're to expect a smart comment in situations like that.

Although after the first drink I would have just gone to the tap in the corner by the food counter rather than having to put up with the guff from the barman.

Unfortunately its part of a wider issue. There are many employees in Ireland who lack an acceptable level of courtesy.

i didnt realise there was a tap i could use ill keep it in mind

i could live with it being one of the regular barmen but it was the/one of the managers

TheTownie

PeakOutput wrote: »

i could live with it being one of the regular barmen but it was the/one of the managers

Ah yes well sounds like so he was enacting what he perceived to be his right to, as manager, be a t**t. (which probably comes very easy to him):cool:

CiaranMT

TheInquisitor wrote: »

He has to pay the staff to pour you the water
He has to pay for the glasses to be cleaned
He has to pay water rates

At the very least you could have bought a coke or lucozade. Being off the drink doesn't mean water only.

It has nothing to do with the drinking culture. It has to do with the fact that your asking multiple times for glasses of free water and contributing nothing

Is he a 'burly' middle aged chap with short dark hair? If it is then I ain't surprised.

SarahBeep!

Tbh, Id much rather go to the scholars in the first place!

CiaranMT

SarahBeep! wrote: »

Tbh, Id much rather go to the scholars in the first place!

Amen to that.

cson

As College bars go the Stables is ****e compared to those in other places [NUIG for example]. The place rakes it in from what I can see and they still have those old style TVs when you could pick up a 32' LCD for less than €300 - one of the things that annoys me about watching a match there - unless you get a decent seat it's squintiness for the night.

The new paint job is ****e too. There should be a €3 flat pint; fair enough they do have offers but I always think there should be something wallet friendly in there.

The Stables has always been like the Lodge for me, a love/hate thing. It's like the quarter to two rule; if you don't set your sights or expectations too high you'll be fine.

Mossin

I will try be as unbiased with my response as I possibly can. I say that because I've spent 5.5 years drinking in the Stables and got on great with all of the staff.

However, saying that there have been occasions when they make smart comments, to me, my friends or others, that may offend us or those around us. But you must also understand that they have to deal with drunken students day after day after day, and alot of the time [coming from my experience of working in a bar for 11 years - I know this], it becomes a defence mechanism to help deal with people on what might be a ****ty day, or the accumulation of a few days putting up with shit.

But there is still no excuse for not serving somebody water. The rare occasions that I have gone off the drink [those that know me stop laughing! I have sometimes not drank whilst out!!], I have received smart comments, and the staff asking me where I was hiding the naggin or whatever...I let it slide, as I know they are only ripping the piss with me. There is no need to take things so literally or to heart.

In my opinion, the majority of the Stables staff [there are exceptions] are very capable, and it comes as a surprise that they wouldnt make a hot whiskey because they were too busy. It only takes an extra few seconds to do that in comparison to a vodka and red bull for example, which I've no doubt were being flung out at the same time.

I know the price of soft drinks are exorbitant, but it wouldnt kill you to purchase at least one instead of just wanting tap water. You could also buy a bottle of water [still or sparkling] and it would stop the complaining from the bar staff. I know the idea of going off the drink is solid, but it doesnt mean you stop spending money altogether once in a bar. But I'll play devils advocate once again, and say that it still doesnt excuse staff from not serving customers who ask for water.

And for those who love the Scholars more, [and I used to frequent it when I wanted quiet pints - which was a lot], you cant enjoy pool or watch a football game, and therefore the only alternative is the Stables [cos the Sports Bar pints are not good]. So you just grin and bear it, and although thats not the best solution [the best solution being the Stables to become politer], unless you complain to somebody other than an online forum, you wont change anything!

NewShoes

SarahBeep! wrote: »

Tbh, Id much rather go to the scholars in the first place!

I'm the same, I much rather Javas/The Scholars, I'm a regular at this stage!

DJCR

Defo prefer drinking in the Stables but I have gone in their and not drank... its fine. Scholars, well I find it great for lunch and a quiet drink ... but the stables is far better for the craic IMO.

Greensout

PeakOutput wrote: »

there are no extra costs associated with serving me a pint of water, the staff are being paid anyway, the glasses will be washed anyway and the water rates will be paid anyway

Right what planet are u on. uv no clue do u . how does he pay the staff? through money he takes over the bar serving u water is not generating you money the barman could be serving someone else, the glass will not need to be washed if you dont use it and the water rates will not be charged if he dosnt use the water as these rates run on a usage rate. also u said earlier about bringing back the glass the barman would have thought and wondered were u just getting pints of water and stealing his glasses, another cost for him.

By any chance are u american?
also who the hell are you saying " the irish and their ridiculous drinking habits"? if u were as offensive to the barman then i side with him.

PeakOutput

Greensout wrote: »

Right what planet are u on. uv no clue do u . how does he pay the staff? through money he takes over the bar serving u water is not generating you money the barman could be serving someone else, the glass will not need to be washed if you dont use it and the water rates will not be charged if he dosnt use the water as these rates run on a usage rate. also u said earlier about bringing back the glass the barman would have thought and wondered were u just getting pints of water and stealing his glasses, another cost for him.

the barmen are paid by the hour not by how many customers they serve, they are there working, weather they serve me or not does not increase their wage costs. i also dont believe that anyone who would be paying for a drink is not getting served as a result of them getting me a pint of water they just might have to wait an extra 10seconds.

the dishwashers run constantly all night weather or not i get served water

i dont care what he wondered i wasnt stealing glasses therefore thats not another cost for him

if water rates are done per unit fair enough that is a minuscule extra cost for them

it should be noted by the way that the stables is a club whose members are the students,it is not the same as a straight up private business

By any chance are u american?

nope

also who the hell are you saying " the irish and their ridiculous drinking habits"? if u were as offensive to the barman then i side with him.

hi, im peakoutput, have we met? who you side with dosnt really bother me, the irish do have ridiculous drinking habits

DJCR

(I don't know why I'm bothering, I'm bored):rolleyes:

PeakOutput wrote: »

the barmen are paid by the hour not by how many customers they serve

True but your arguement is fundamentally flawed. If they do not serve paying customers it will be percieved that the number of staff needed is less. Therefore the hours allocated will be less next week as a cost cutting measure i.e. they have extra staff on with no need therefore why keep costs high?

This will then affect the net weekly intake of the bar men next week/month as their hours are cut. So in essence the amount they earn is directly correlated to the amount of paying customers that they serve.

PeakOutput wrote: »

they are there working, weather they serve me or not does not increase their wage costs.

Nope in fact the opposite occurs - decreases the wage budget (See above).

PeakOutput wrote: »

i also dont believe that anyone who would be paying for a drink is not getting served as a result of them getting me a pint of water they just might have to wait an extra 10seconds.

On this point, we will ignore what I said earlier as obviously with less staff that would further increase the length of time people may have to wait.

So for arguements sake we will take your proposed 10secs as fact. Lets say over the course of the night people get 24 Glasses of water.
That is 240 seconds used giving out free water - 4 mins. Any bad bar man could serve at least 4 pints in this time (Guiness €3.90 a pop) thats an opportunity cost €13.60 (What the pub could have earned over the course of the night instead of giving out free water [we know this because they have to close the bar at a set time, so time lost serving free stuff actully matters and you know as well as I do that there are always people trying to get a shnakey one in at the end... who may have got in on time if they didn't have to wait for people ordering water.

Therefore, by our figures (which are just purely an example) the stables would loose €13.60 in intake (which is over the wage for an hours work - so employees may loose an hours work next week etc etc)

So the cost of water so far:- Staff Costs + Opportunity Cost on to the dishwasher...

PeakOutput wrote: »

the dishwashers run constantly all night weather or not i get served water

This is simply not true as if there are no glasses to wash, the dishwasher will not be put on (it would be pretty pointless).
So back to our 24 free glasses - this would cause an extra wash to be put on (they have to be washed and even if they are put in with other glasses that have been paid for they will inevitably incur an extra wash as the amout of glasses put into the machine is limited to its capacity) at a loss as there has been absolutely no intake of money for the services provided.

So the cost of water so far:- Staff Costs + Opportunity Cost + Dishwasher Costs (Electricity/Water/Detergent etc)

PeakOutput wrote: »

i dont care what he wondered i wasnt stealing glasses therefore thats not another cost for him

Right, so if your glass was stolen - this has to be replaced. Otherwise they can't serve the drink. This is another cost that again affects profits, which could affect hours, which could in fact affect his take home pay.

Though I am delighted you weren't taking the glass.

PeakOutput wrote: »

if water rates are done per unit fair enough that is a minuscule extra cost for them

So the cost of water so far:- Staff Costs + Opportunity Cost + Dishwasher Costs (Electricity/"Cleaning" Water/Detergent etc) + Drinking water rate.........

PeakOutput wrote: »

it should be noted by the way that the stables is a club whose members are the students,it is not the same as a straight up private business

Yes it is, just because it has a club licence it still needs to make money otherwise it can't survive.

So far, while small, there is a cost associated with the glass of water
:- Staff Costs + Opportunity Cost + Dishwasher Costs (Electricity/"Cleaning" Water/Detergent etc) + Drinking water rate.........

Don't forget the Fixed Liabilities that the stables need to pay to be able to provide their service to give you access to the water at all:- Insurance + Upkeep + Sky TV (trust me a college pub without sport - Sky sports is fixed) + Licence to sell alcohol + Electricity + Heat etc etc etc etc etc etc

In addition there are costs to the entertainment on certain nights, DJ, band, Karaoke etc

These all have to be paid for and won't be by your free glass of water.

PeakOutput wrote: »

the irish do have ridiculous drinking habits

Yeah, its an expensive habit..... not that you would know :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

PeakOutput

DJCR wrote: »

(I don't know why I'm bothering, I'm bored):rolleyes:




True but your arguement is fundamentally flawed. If they do not serve paying customers it will be percieved that the number of staff needed is less. Therefore the hours allocated will be less next week as a cost cutting measure i.e. they have extra staff on with no need therefore why keep costs high?

This will then affect the net weekly intake of the bar men next week/month as their hours are cut. So in essence the amount they earn is directly correlated to the amount of paying customers that they serve.




Nope in fact the opposite occurs - decreases the wage budget (See above).




On this point, we will ignore what I said earlier as obviously with less staff that would further increase the length of time people may have to wait.

So for arguements sake we will take your proposed 10secs as fact. Lets say over the course of the night people get 24 Glasses of water.
That is 240 seconds used giving out free water - 4 mins. Any bad bar man could serve at least 4 pints in this time (Guiness €3.90 a pop) thats an opportunity cost €13.60 (What the pub could have earned over the course of the night instead of giving out free water [we know this because they have to close the bar at a set time, so time lost serving free stuff actully matters and you know as well as I do that there are always people trying to get a shnakey one in at the end... who may have got in on time if they didn't have to wait for people ordering water.

Therefore, by our figures (which are just purely an example) the stables would loose €13.60 in intake (which is over the wage for an hours work - so employees may loose an hours work next week etc etc)

So the cost of water so far:- Staff Costs + Opportunity Cost on to the dishwasher...

all that is true only if you accept that people are missing out on being served or would buy an extra pint if they had access to the barman while he was serving me. i dont accept that. i dont accept that even one less pint is served because they are providing water. the drinkers have a rough amount that they want to drink and thats what they will drink. at the end of the night you and i both know that if you are at the bar at closing time or shortly after it you will get served so that argument dosnt hold water either

This is simply not true as if there are no glasses to wash, the dishwasher will not be put on (it would be pretty pointless).

obviously

So back to our 24 free glasses - this would cause an extra wash to be put on (they have to be washed and even if they are put in with other glasses that have been paid for they will inevitably incur an extra wash as the amout of glasses put into the machine is limited to its capacity) at a loss as there has been absolutely no intake of money for the services provided.

its split evenly over the night though, it does not build up all at once. if they have 23 glasses to wash and the washer holds 24 it costs no extra to wash that extra glass

So the cost of water so far:- Staff Costs + Opportunity Cost + Dishwasher Costs (Electricity/"Cleaning" Water/Detergent etc) + Drinking water rate.........

in business theory terms yes it is, in practical operation terms and how clubs and pubs operate in ireland it isnt at all.

Yes it is, just because it has a club licence it still needs to make money otherwise it can't survive.

of course but it has an obligation to its members

These all have to be paid for and won't be by your free glass of water.

maybe this will help you understand

besides water charges, the costs to the stables on a night that i am there drinking water compared to a night where i am not there at all are exactly the same.

Yeah, its an expensive habit..... not that you would know :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

ah, that explains it, you didnt read the entire thread

DJCR

PeakOutput wrote: »

all that is true only if you accept that people are missing out on being served or would buy an extra pint if they had access to the barman while he was serving me. i dont accept that. i dont accept that even one less pint is served because they are providing water. the drinkers have a rough amount that they want to drink and thats what they will drink. at the end of the night you and i both know that if you are at the bar at closing time or shortly after it you will get served so that argument dosnt hold water either

Honestly, how can you say that in a limited selling time, giving out free water doesn't affect your opportunity cost.
Even if people do get served slightly after closing in a bar, the chances are those people would have got their pint on time and those just after them would be just finished and would be trying to get their snakey pint! You and I both know this would happen - it makes sense.

PeakOutput wrote: »

its split evenly over the night though, it does not build up all at once. if they have 23 glasses to wash and the washer holds 24 it costs no extra to wash that extra glass

Whether it is done over the night or whether it is done all it once it still costs extra !!! For example:-

Capacity = 24 glasses per wash
24 Glasses x No. of Washes = Cost
cost per wash = Cost / no. of washes

So lets say we have 24 washes each with one free glass in there (over the course of the night.

(23 [paid] + 1 [free]) x 24 = (23 x 24) + (1 x 24)

(1 x 24) = Therefore, as I was saying they have to pay for a free wash. Maybe over many washes but it still has to be paid.

PeakOutput wrote: »

in business theory terms yes it is, in practical operation terms and how clubs and pubs operate in ireland it isnt at all.

Its not theory - you have to cover your costs!!!

PeakOutput wrote: »

of course but it has an obligation to its members.

Members/regulars/customers - lovely branding going on, its only a club for licence purposes.

PeakOutput wrote: »

besides water charges, the costs to the stables on a night that i am there drinking water compared to a night where i am not there at all are exactly the same.

Oh yes (those fixed costs I mentioned), only because I believe there are others who just go in for water which I have no problem with, its ye're choice. Only thing is, when you are there, you are costing them money/time etc.

PeakOutput wrote: »

ah, that explains it, you didnt read the entire thread

Yeah, but being Irish, I have a ridiculous drinking habit?!?:rolleyes:

cup of tea

PeakOutput wrote: »

at the end of the night you and i both know that if you are at the bar at closing time or shortly after it you will get served so that argument dosnt hold water either

:D:D

PeakOutput

DJCR wrote: »

Yeah, but being Irish, I have a ridiculous drinking habit?!?:rolleyes:

i think its a pretty fair generalisation if it dosnt apply to you congratulations

anyway i was asked to make an official complaint, i did, we will see if it makes any difference i wont lose much sleep either way

Peteee

Cool it a bit guys. Getting a bit heated. Keep it civil.

CiaranMT

All this over glasses of water :pac:

PeakOutput

CiaranMT wrote: »

All this over glasses of water :pac:

i know :rolleyes: people are pretty sensitive it seems

DJCR

DJCR wrote: »

(I don't know why I'm bothering, I'm bored):rolleyes:

PeakOutput wrote: »

anyway i was asked to make an official complaint, i did, we will see if it makes any difference i wont lose much sleep either way

CiaranMT wrote: »

All this over glasses of water :pac:

PeakOutput wrote: »

i know :rolleyes: people are pretty sensitive it seems

:D:D - It was funny though !!

PeakOutput

DJCR wrote: »

:D:D - It was funny though !!

seriously i do realise how petty it sounds to bitch over water and while it does annoy me i dont think its the biggest issue right now and should jump to the top of anyones to do list

but i think its bad form and seen as its 'our' university it shouldnt just be tolerated. i understand the business side arguments i run two business's and am usually described as a capitalist basterd but you know its different when im the one being affected

RGDATA!

Greensout wrote: »

Right what planet are u on. uv no clue do u . how does he pay the staff? through money he takes over the bar serving u water is not generating you money the barman could be serving someone else, the glass will not need to be washed if you dont use it and the water rates will not be charged if he dosnt use the water as these rates run on a usage rate. also u said earlier about bringing back the glass the barman would have thought and wondered were u just getting pints of water and stealing his glasses, another cost for him.

By any chance are u american?
also who the hell are you saying " the irish and their ridiculous drinking habits"? if u were as offensive to the barman then i side with him.

right what planet are you on etc.
You know less than you think you know.

I run a business. Let's say a group of people come into my business together. Let's say only one or two of them is buying. Is that my cue to act like a cnut to the friends that aren't buying? I could, but maybe next time they were going shopping as a group, the ones I offended might influence the ones that bought from me not to come in at all.
I think most people in business will tell you that if you are only respectful to those customers who are spending money right now, today, then pretty soon you won't have many customers.

Also, it's not particularly hard not act like a cnut, unless you were just born one.

DJCR

PeakOutput wrote: »

seriously i do realise how petty it sounds to bitch over water and while it does annoy me i dont think its the biggest issue right now and should jump to the top of anyones to do list

but i think its bad form and seen as its 'our' university it shouldnt just be tolerated. i understand the business side arguments i run two business's and am usually described as a capitalist basterd but you know its different when im the one being affected

We should protest - a students solution to everything!!! Grab a glass of water day !!!! :D (Have to make sure we pick a day its not raining though.... no one wants water when its raining for some reason )