Mate - 1000th day on the dole

nickobrien1985

A friend of mine - Kevin is celebrating his 1000th day on the dole today, he's been 2.5yrs+ out of work.
In that time he has lived at home, (he's 28), and has applied for in total about 10jobs.
He has even admitted that if the dole were lower he might actually work harder to find a job.
He was never bother to go into training either.

Do we have a massive problem with our social welfare system if this is the case?

How bout the govt. offer €500 to someone who finds a job after being on the dole for less than 6mths?

Does my mate have any hope in building a future career at all?

RonMexico

Did ye give him the cake yet

youcancallmeal

nickobrien1985 wrote: »

How bout the govt. offer €500 to someone who finds a job after being on the dole for less than 6mths?

It would take certain types of people about 5 seconds to come up with a way of abusing this. Anyway the whole area is pretty complex. Simply reducing welfare isn't an option unless there is more job creation but even then it still isn't that simple

nickobrien1985

youcancallme>al wrote: »

It would take certain types of people about 5 seconds to come up with a way of abusing this. Anyway the whole area is pretty complex. Simply reducing welfare isn't an option unless there is more job creation but even then it still isn't that simple

ya thats the problem isn't it

nickobrien1985

RonMexico wrote: »

Did ye give him the cake yet

Ya we got him a cake.
Another mate is awarding him a Diploma of Unemployability.
I have a speech I'm going to deliver tonight. My mate embodies the Irish dream, don't work, save lots of money and live like a king

Cavehill Red

Yup. There's only two ways to deal with the long-term unemployment situation. Firstly, you need jobs. If there aren't any jobs, then people who are not equipped to be entrepreneurial and start businesses will not be able to work.

Secondly, you need to incentivise wasters away from spending years on end on the dole. Best way I can think of achieving that is to cap the time on the dole, introducing 'step-down' rates of benefits.

So, for example, after a year, your dole goes down 10%, and another 5-10% every six months after that. After 1000 days, your dole is between 2/3 and 3/4 of what it was. After five years, it's only 10% to 50% of what it is for someone just laid off.

It wasn't meant to be a lifestyle choice, but an assistance while people seek work.

But in the current circumstances, I think introducing dole cuts is cruel and unnecessary in the context of banking bailouts. It won't save the exchequer, and there aren't jobs for people to find.

We need to renege on the bailout and divert money into rebuilding our economy and creating jobs here in Ireland.

ragg

In fairness if yo fancied a little time on the scrounge\ not working now is the perfect time too do it. The gap on your cv can be explained away by the "economic situation".

If he's happy leave him off

nickobrien1985

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Yup. There's only two ways to deal with the long-term unemployment situation. Firstly, you need jobs. If there aren't any jobs, then people who are not equipped to be entrepreneurial and start businesses will not be able to work.

Secondly, you need to incentivise wasters away from spending years on end on the dole. Best way I can think of achieving that is to cap the time on the dole, introducing 'step-down' rates of benefits.

So, for example, after a year, your dole goes down 10%, and another 5-10% every six months after that. After 1000 days, your dole is between 2/3 and 3/4 of what it was. After five years, it's only 10% to 50% of what it is for someone just laid off.

It wasn't meant to be a lifestyle choice, but an assistance while people seek work.

But in the current circumstances, I think introducing dole cuts is cruel and unnecessary in the context of banking bailouts. It won't save the exchequer, and there aren't jobs for people to find.

We need to renege on the bailout and divert money into rebuilding our economy and creating jobs here in Ireland.

I agree with you man, but the problem is we have such a vocal left-wing in this country. If you try and cut any state benefit by €1 they're out calling Joe Duffy enraged.

chucken1

nickobrien1985

are a lot of these people 'vunerable?? ReallY?

Nolanger

nickobrien1985 wrote: »

Do we have a massive problem with our social welfare system

Yep, too many women working there!

Cavehill Red

nickobrien1985 wrote: »

I agree with you man, but the problem is we have such a vocal left-wing in this country. If you try and cut any state benefit by €1 they're out calling Joe Duffy enraged.

And in the current context, they're right. We have 450,000 on the dole. The vast majority of those aren't scroungers or wasters. They're people desperate to work who cannot find a job because there are none.
They are struggling to pay outrageous mortgages from rip-off banks that the state is handing corporate dole worth 100 billion euro to. They are struggling to feed their kids.
I think dole-capping should be introduced, but only when we're back in a situation of relative normality in the job market, and that could be some time.

stimpson

I call bull****.

If he's over a year on the dole he's on JSA and it's means tested. If he's living with mammy then he'll be getting SFA. Of he refused a FAS course he'd have his dole stopped.

Nice try.

Nolanger

nickobrien1985 wrote: »

Does my mate have any hope in building a future career at all?

Professional darts player?

daithi2011

Cavehill Red wrote: »

And in the current context, they're right. We have 450,000 on the dole. The vast majority of those aren't scroungers or wasters. They're people desperate to work who cannot find a job because there are none.
They are struggling to pay outrageous mortgages from rip-off banks that the state is handing corporate dole worth 100 billion euro to. They are struggling to feed their kids.
I think dole-capping should be introduced, but only when we're back in a situation of relative normality in the job market, and that could be some time.

It may not be PC to say this, but - there are loads of jobs. I dont know one person who has lost a job and has been unemployed for more than 6 months. And those who were unemployed close to 6 months were "taking a break on purpose, paid for by the state" after getting made redundant. The minute they got bored of this and went looking for a job, they got jobs.

"There are no jobs" is only a mantra for people who are either unemployable idiots, lazy, unwilling to find the jobs. Its just an excuse so they can feel better about their lack of effort.

A couple from Slovakia moved into a house across the road from me only 2 months ago. When talking to them the week after they moved in, they were both looking for work. They are both working now. She is working in a clothes shop in town. He is driving a van for a well known logistics company.

Cavehill Red

Anecdotal evidence is no evidence. I know quite a few people who were made redundant. In their particular industries there are no jobs whatsoever. They've anywhere between 5 and 20 years experience. For them, it's going to be a long slog of retraining in something else.
As for working in shops, etc, my mate's kid has been looking for that sort of work in central Dublin for months and found nothing. Shopkeepers don't want someone with no work experience. I consider this an anti-Irish phenomenon actually, as it transpires to favour older migrants over young Irish people.
The days of young people picking and choosing which bar job, waiting job or till job are long gone.
Where I do see jobs are in the specialised areas of IT. But that doesn't suit someone who got laid off as a bricklayer, or an architect, or a journalist, or a factory worker. And even if they all went off to retrain in those areas, there's no guarantee there will still be jobs in that sector in four or five years time when they're qualified to apply.

daithi2011

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Anecdotal evidence is no evidence. I know quite a few people who were made redundant. In their particular industries there are no jobs whatsoever. They've anywhere between 5 and 20 years experience. For them, it's going to be a long slog of retraining in something else.
As for working in shops, etc, my mate's kid has been looking for that sort of work in central Dublin for months and found nothing. Shopkeepers don't want someone with no work experience. I consider this an anti-Irish phenomenon actually, as it transpires to favour older migrants over young Irish people.
The days of young people picking and choosing which bar job, waiting job or till job are long gone.
Where I do see jobs are in the specialised areas of IT. But that doesn't suit someone who got laid off as a bricklayer, or an architect, or a journalist, or a factory worker. And even if they all went off to retrain in those areas, there's no guarantee there will still be jobs in that sector in four or five years time when they're qualified to apply.

I suggest you tell them to cop the fcuk on.

Cavehill Red

daithi2011 wrote: »

I suggest you tell them to cop the fcuk on.

And how exactly should they 'cop the fcuk on'? The economy here is devastated. They're middle-aged highly qualified professionals. They won't be hanging around to do a Fas scheme in how to type a CV, and they won't be looking for a job in Burger King either.
They'll be setting up their own businesses or in most cases emigrating.

cee_jay

Cavehill Red wrote: »

And how exactly should they 'cop the fcuk on'? The economy here is devastated. They're middle-aged highly qualified professionals. They won't be hanging around to do a Fas scheme in how to type a CV, and they won't be looking for a job in Burger King either.
They'll be setting up their own businesses or in most cases emigrating.

Please don't feed the troll.

I have handed out 2 bans already on this thead - and that just after skim reading quickly. More infractions and warnings could yet be to follow.
I advise everybody to read this forum's charter before posting anymore on this thread. Any further trolling or posting which goes against the charter will be receiving a week's ban.

nickobrien1985

stimpson wrote: »

I call bull****.

If he's over a year on the dole he's on JSA and it's means tested. If he's living with mammy then he'll be getting SFA. Of he refused a FAS course he'd have his dole stopped.

Nice try.

He 28, he just lives with his mother.
If you're over 25 it don't matter what your parents earn.
He's never been offered a FAS course, although he should take one.

I've applied for FAS courses in the past and most of them had waiting lists.

cee_jay

Actually on second thoughts, I am closing this thread.

State Benefits is a forum for the discussion of Benefits available within the Republic of Ireland from the Irish Government and it's agencies.
This is not a forum for critiscizing Government Departments or Semi-State Bodies, which includes the policies of the Government Departments of Semi-State Bodies.

OP is not looking for advise or discussion on any benefits that may be available to them, rather a discussion on overhauling the social welfare system in the State.
OP, if you are looking for serious discussion on changes that could be made to the social welfare system and improving job prospects in the country, perhaps you should open a thread in Irish Economy.