Calendar's Christianity omission criticised [article]

Plowman

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Xizors Palace

Oh what a surprise. Still, God is not mocked. He shall have the last laugh. Perhaps the majority of the eurocrats hauled up in Brussells don't realise that the European symbol found its inspiration in the crown of stars above the head of the Blessed Virgin Mary in the Book of the Apocalypse, according to its designer, and that the flag was adopted on the Feast of the Immaculate Conception. Those were the days.

As an aside, I think Ireland should get out of Europe asap. Like that will happen, but it's an idea all the same.

Zombrex

It sounds like a printing error guys, I seriously doubt anyone was trying to make a political statement about Christendom.

prinz

Someone had a bad day at work. :pac: Hard to imagine how that mistake could go unnoticed but still, wouldn't want to be the person in charge of that.

Fanny Cradock

Wicknight wrote: »

It sounds like a printing error guys, I seriously doubt anyone was trying to make a political statement about Christendom.

I'm not sure anybody is suggesting this has to do with Christendom. But a good point nevertheless.

prinz wrote: »

Someone had a bad day at work. :pac: Hard to imagine how that mistake could go unnoticed but still, wouldn't want to be the person in charge of that.

I'm reminded of an interview I saw on Newsnight towards the end of last year with the author Jonathan Franzen (I think it was him ). As he began to read from his new book he suddenly let rip with a few choice words. He had just realised that a ream of errors that had been marked for correction in the penultimate draft now appeared in the final version which were just then sitting on the shelf of every good bookshop. The upshot was that somebody from the publishers obviously sent version 1.0 to the printers, and not 1.1.2_final_FINAL_corrected_copy*. Mistakes happen.

*BTW, is it just me or do other people eventually end up with ridiculously named files like this?

prinz

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

I'm reminded of an interview I saw on Newsnight towards the end of last year with the author Jonathan Franzen (I think it was him ). As he began to read from his new book he suddenly let rip with a few choice words. He had just realised that a ream of errors that had been marked for correction in the penultimate draft now appeared in the final version which were just then sitting on the shelf of every good bookshop.

:eek:

I can't begin to imagine how frustrating and enraging that would be.

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

*BTW, is it just me or do other people eventually end up with ridiculously named files like this?

It's not just you. It happens, especially when emails are forwarded back and forth. Subject Line: The Amended amended amended amended schedule.

MrPudding

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

I'm not sure anybody is suggesting this has to do with Christendom. But a good point nevertheless.

How does that quote go...? "Never put down to maliciousness what can adequately be explained by stupidity." Words to live by.

MrP

Galvasean

I can see why they refused the recall the calendars. Personally I'd hate to see them waste another €5million.
But missing out on Christmas? Such a foolish error. Was nobody proofreading the calendars?

georgieporgy

you think those guys would balk at wasting another 5 million?

santing

There appeared an article about this in Christianity Today
http://www.christiantoday.com/articledir/print.htm?id=27358

MrPudding

santing wrote: »

There appeared an article about this in Christianity Today
http://www.christiantoday.com/articledir/print.htm?id=27358[/QUOTE]

This is a pretty silly thing to say…

German Conservative MEP Martin Kastler wrote:

[attributed the omissions to] aggressive atheism in the apparatus of the European Union Commission.

Yes, aggressive atheists that only think the christian god does not exist…? That is a bit silly really.

MrP

Zombrex

MrPudding wrote: »

santing wrote: »

There appeared an article about this in Christianity Today
http://www.christiantoday.com/articledir/print.htm?id=27358[/QUOTE]

This is a pretty silly thing to say…

Yes, aggressive atheists that only think the christian god does not exist…? That is a bit silly really.

MrP

Someone should point out that atheists hate everyone, not just Christians :pac:

Plowman

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Zombrex

Plowman wrote: »

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I would think it is the other way around, a technical error is the easiest way to understand this.

The Christian holidays are missing probably because there was a technical error at some point such as "Error, Christian_hol.vc failed to import" which happened after the design stage (ie on the way to the printers). This sort of thing happens all the time, as Fanny's example highlights.

It is ringing a bell with some people because it comes at a time when some Christians believe, rightly or wrongly, that their religion is being sidelined. But correlation doesn't mean causation.

For example I once worked for a company that produced maps and one map I made had Longford missing. This was spotted before a presentation with the map but not before it was printed. I've nothing against Longford, it was because of a unicode error in some of the data.

If thought this had happened at a time when Longford were for some reason feeling hard done by it could easily have been seen as a slight against them if they didn't understand the process.

MrPudding

Plowman wrote: »

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This is a bit like saying the only reasonable explanation for christ’s body not being in the tomb was that he rose from the dead. Similarly, saying that the filthy atheists that secrecy run the EU, presumably in uneasy cahoots with the Zioninst that clearly actually do run it, did it on purpose suits your belief better. I am not saying that it isn’t an atheist conspiracy, I don’t know, but I would seriously think that a technical error is a more likely explanation.

MrP

Plowman

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prinz

MrPudding wrote: »

This is a pretty silly thing to say…

*cough* Euroskeptic Daily Mail *cough*

Tomorrow's headline "Kraut 'crat wants to waste millions of UK money"

hivizman

Plowman wrote: »

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Is a "clerical error" one made by clerics rather than EU officials?

Here's a statement from the European Union's website: "The Europa Diary is a school Diary, for students in secondary school, aimed as a tool for homework and other school related notes. Its weekly pages include a footnote with a fact of which young people in Europe are not necessarily aware. Some of these footnotes mention holidays of other religions. This is where the regrettable omission of Christian holidays occurred."

I suspect that most young people in Europe don't need to be reminded when Christmas Day is, but are less likely to be aware of dates such as Yom Kippur, Eid al-Fitr or Diwali.

Here's a link to the EU's statement of apology. This reads like lack of thought rather than conspiracy, though perhaps the most cunning conspiracies are designed to look like human error if they are found out?

The EU statistics state that around 22,000 copies of the Europa Diary 2010-11 have been issued in Ireland alone.

Plowman

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georgieporgy

hivizman wrote: »

Is a "clerical error" one made by clerics rather than EU officials?

Here's a statement from the European Union's website: "The Europa Diary is a school Diary, for students in secondary school, aimed as a tool for homework and other school related notes. Its weekly pages include a footnote with a fact of which young people in Europe are not necessarily aware. Some of these footnotes mention holidays of other religions. This is where the regrettable omission of Christian holidays occurred."

I suspect that most young people in Europe don't need to be reminded when Christmas Day is, but are less likely to be aware of dates such as Yom Kippur, Eid al-Fitr or Diwali.

Here's a link to the EU's statement of apology. This reads like lack of thought rather than conspiracy, though perhaps the most cunning conspiracies are designed to look like human error if they are found out?

The EU statistics state that around 22,000 copies of the Europa Diary 2010-11 have been issued in Ireland alone.

Many european students are not christian (muslims for example). They may not be very familiar with christian holidays.

Does Brussels have a formal policy regarding christianity? (pro or anti??)

Xizors Palace

MrPudding wrote: »

This is a bit like saying the only reasonable explanation for christ’s body not being in the tomb was that he rose from the dead. Similarly, saying that the filthy atheists that secrecy run the EU, presumably in uneasy cahoots with the Zioninst that clearly actually do run it, did it on purpose suits your belief better. I am not saying that it isn’t an atheist conspiracy, I don’t know, but I would seriously think that a technical error is a more likely explanation.

MrP

The EU and UN are run by the Freemasons. Laugh all you like, but it is true. That is why the EU and UN work to destroy Catholic faith and morals, and despise the natural family.

prinz wrote: »

*cough* Euroskeptic Daily Mail *cough*

Tomorrow's headline "Kraut 'crat wants to waste millions of UK money"

I think if Ireland had been a little more sceptical and a little less gullible, we mightn't have got into the mess we did.

hivizman

georgieporgy wrote: »

Does Brussels have a formal policy regarding christianity? (pro or anti??)

In principle, the European Union does not have any policy regarding religion, since this falls outside the areas where it has the power to legislate and regulate - religious regulation is reserved for the individual member states. In practice, however, religious issues arise in a whole range of areas to do with issues such as citizenship and fundamental rights, non-discrimination, immigration and integration, social inclusion, and education and culture, where religion can get involved. Although the EU is nominally neither pro nor anti particular religions, there is certainly a sense among some national governments that Europe is "basically Christian", and this has been a factor delaying the accession of Turkey (a predominantly Muslim country) to the EU.

There is a recent research paper by Sergio Carrera and Joanna Parkin: "The Place of Religion in European Union Law and Policy: Competing Approaches and Actors inside the European Commission", which can be downloaded from the internet by following this link. The paper makes it clear how complex and fluid the position is, with different parts of the EU basically making their own policies.

MrPudding

Xizors Palace wrote: »

That is why the EU and UN work to destroy Catholic faith and morals, and despise the natural family.

Ah yes I see now, that actually makes sense of something I could not figure out. I was always confused about why, out of all the religions in the world, only the rcc had the status of state, and is given deferential treatment as a result of this, over all other religions. To the extent that they are involved in areas of EU and UN work where they really have no business being in. So, the EU and UN working to destroy the rcc would explain that. Oh, no, wait, it doesn’t explain that at all. In fact, it seen to kind of show the opposite, now I am even more confused.

Perhaps you could show me show the UN and EU is working to destroy the rcc, and please, do not conflate rcc and christianity, they are two different things and when people act as if the two are the same it is quite irritating and, were I a christian of any other denomination I would possibly find it quite offensive.

MrP

Zombrex

Xizors Palace wrote: »

The EU and UN are run by the Freemasons.

Having seen first hand the petty squabbling and dis-organisational nature of the EU all I can say to that is "If only..."

Xizors Palace

Wicknight wrote: »

Having seen first hand the petty squabbling and dis-organisational nature of the EU all I can say to that is "If only..."

You should have a word with the folks from C-FAM who will tell you a thing or two about late night squabbling. Make that the berating of lone Vatican diplomats in the early hours who dare to challenge the culture of death and are shouted down by EU autocrats. Have a look at this extract from one of their supporter emails:

Upcoming UN Conference Will attack Church opposition to abortion…
…Abortion Radicals isolate the faithful at UN conferences…
….Help the Friday Fax defend the Church and the faithful from pro-abortion attacks…

On issues like abortion the Church is almost totally isolated at the UN.

• I have watched with my own eyes as UN conference chairmen have berated Vatican negotiators for trying to speak. They are screamed at for “blocking consensus” on a woman’s right to abort her unborn child.
• I have watched as a single brave Vatican diplomat has stood totally alone against the weight of the world.
• I have seen Christian laymen stalked by UN security guards after pro-abortion radicals charge them with being dangerous!
• I have seen pro-life Christians stay in those hot and musty conference rooms all night long trying to stop the radicals from getting their way.
I know.
I have been among them.

Sometimes C-FAM and the Friday Fax are the only friendly faces in the room as the Church fights Her lonely battle. And this is why I write to you today.
We are in the fourth week of our semi-annual fund drive to keep the Friday Fax alive and fully funded. We need you so badly.
The Friday Fax has published continuously every week for eleven years. It is the only weekly source of pro-life and pro-family news coming out of UN headquarters in New York City and wherever UN radicals seek to impose abortion on the world.
We have reported so thoroughly on the nefarious work on the UN Population Fund that they have attacked us on their website. They have said our work is “criminal.”
And we are always in the small rooms at the UN where policy documents are hammered out. Either that or we are right outside the door!

Zombrex

Xizors Palace wrote: »

You should have a word with the folks from C-FAM who will tell you a thing or two about late night squabbling. Make that the berating of lone Vatican diplomats in the early hours who dare to challenge the culture of death and are shouted down by EU autocrats. Have a look at this extract from one of their supporter emails:

Just because the Catholic Church is totally isolated at the UN doesn't mean the UN is run by Freemasons, does it?

To me that speaks more of the increasing deterioration of the relationship between the RCC and catholic organisations with the outside world than the running of the UN.

MrPudding

Wicknight wrote: »

Just because the Catholic Church is totally isolated at the UN doesn't mean the UN is run by Freemasons, does it?

To me that speaks more of the increasing deterioration of the relationship between the RCC and catholic organisations with the outside world than the running of the UN.

One might even dare to hope that if this is actually the case it might indicate a long overdue realisation that this particular organisation has no place in these meetings, and simply should not be there.

MrP

Xizors Palace

MrPudding wrote: »

One might even dare to hope that if this is actually the case it might indicate a long overdue realisation that this particular organisation has no place in these meetings, and simply should not be there.

MrP

The Holy See is the last, lonely voice speaking out for the marginalised and helpless (the unborn and the very old and sick) at the UN. These UN people try to advance the culture of death and the Holy See is the only thing in the way who knows full well their nefarious goals.

MrPudding

Xizors Palace wrote: »

The Holy See is the last, lonely voice speaking out for the marginalised and helpless (the unborn and the very old and sick) at the UN. These UN people try to advance the culture of death and the Holy See is the only thing in the way who knows full well their nefarious goals.

Yes, quite. They seem to have a knack for getting in the way, or at least trying...

• 1994 Cairo, attempting to prevent consensus on issues around woman's reproductive rights.
• As above in 1995 in Copenhagen and Bejing.
• 1998, the vatican / holy see tried to keep forced pregnancy of a list of proposed war crimes for the international criminal court.
• 1999, condenming and trying to block the provision of emergency contraception to woman who had been systematically gang raped in Kosovo.
• 2001, condemning the use of condoms for for AIDS prevention / reduction.

This is the work of a despicable organisation. The sooner they are marginalised and removed from the workings of the UN and EU the better.

MrP

Xizors Palace

MrPudding wrote: »

Yes, quite. They seem to have a knack for getting in the way, or at least trying...

• 1994 Cairo, attempting to prevent consensus on issues around woman's reproductive rights.
• As above in 1995 in Copenhagen and Bejing.
• 1998, the vatican / holy see tried to keep forced pregnancy of a list of proposed war crimes for the international criminal court.
• 1999, condenming and trying to block the provision of emergency contraception to woman who had been systematically gang raped in Kosovo.
• 2001, condemning the use of condoms for for AIDS prevention / reduction.

This is the work of a despicable organisation. The sooner they are marginalised and removed from the workings of the UN and EU the better.

MrP

You can't refer to my Church as a despicable organisation. I call upon you to withdraw your vile statement forthwith.

MrPudding

Xizors Palace wrote: »

You can't refer to my Church as a despicable organisation. I call upon you to withdraw your vile statement forthwith.

Yes I can and no I won't.

MrP

Fanny Cradock

MrPudding wrote: »

This is the work of a despicable organisation. The sooner they are marginalised and removed from the workings of the UN and EU the better.

MrP

Mr P, you would make my life much easier if you didn't refer to the RC as a "despicable organisation". Frankly, I don't enjoy having to deal with the inevitable fallout from such language.

MrPudding

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Mr P, you would make my life much easier if you didn't refer to the RC as a "despicable organisation". Frankly, I don't enjoy having to deal with the inevitable fallout from such language.

I apologise unreservedly for any inconvenience it causes you as a moderator. That said, it is hard to find a name for it which adequately describes it which would not be automatically filtered out.

I will try to refrain from using such comments, but if you don't mind I will not be withdrawing the comment and I apologise only for any trouble it has caused you and not for my choice of words.

MrP

Fanny Cradock

This thread has a specific topic. Any further off topic posts will be deleted.

georgieporgy

MrPudding wrote: »

I apologise unreservedly for any inconvenience it causes you as a moderator. That said, it is hard to find a name for it which adequately describes it which would not be automatically filtered out.

I will try to refrain from using such comments, but if you don't mind I will not be withdrawing the comment and I apologise only for any trouble it has caused you and not for my choice of words.

MrP

Proud bigotry at its finest, quite similar to the EU's apology for the calender ommission.

MrPudding

georgieporgy wrote: »

Proud bigotry at its finest, quite similar to the EU's apology for the calender ommission.

Being called a bigot, I have just learned, is not necessarily a bad thing. Previously being called a bigot would have upset me. Bigotry is something I don’t really like and obviously being called a bigot has negative connotations. But now I have had a kind of epiphany, thank you GeorgiePorgy!

There are certain things that I find to be very disturbing, things that I have trouble reconciling with a civilised society existing in the 21st Century. These are things like facilitating child rape, institutionally attempting to prevent child rapists from being dealt with by the proper authorities. Additionally, things like seemingly treating 50% of the world’s population as “breeders” fit only to produce the next generation of believers. There are other things as well; I mean seriously, why try to stop forced pregnancy being a war crime? What right does an organisation have for doing that? Trying to block the use of condoms for the control and mitigation of a disease that is rampant in parts of the world. And how about the financial stuff? Transferring assets to other legal entities to avoid paying compensation to the people they have wronged? Trying to get the government to pay for the legal expenses incurred trying to avoid giving information to the tribunal investigating your wrongdoings? Really? When these acts are carried out by an organisation that claims to be the voice of god on earth and a moral authority that tells us how to live our lives, then I think it is even worse.

When an apologist for that organisation calls me a bigot I welcome that title.

MrP

Fanny Cradock

I'm calling time on this thread.