Whats so appealing about Medicine ???

TehFionnster

!MAVERICK! wrote: »

I am passionate about a career in aviation, and as soon as I finish this damned Leaving cert,I will do my best to find employment in aviation, just like my family. And how in the blue would you know that I dont want to follow it or not? Whether it be aeronautical engineering, flying for airlines or cargo corporations, air traffic controlling, airline management,or civil defense, I dont mind.

What differentiates a job in aviation from everyday job like a doctor is .... you'll enjoy a flexible schedule, thats not just the boring 9-5 every single day for your whole life!

A whole lot more responsibility in your hands at a younger age. All the responsibility a doctor has is to look after senile and sick people. And after you finish studying medicine your hairs will of gone gray, and everyone will of had at least a job before you.

Its more sociable and less stressful than health careers.

There is much higher pay to earn as being a pilot or air traffic controller, Average captain salary in Aer Lingus is currently just over €206,000 to be almost exact. When you add the extras such as performance pay, flying pay, pension contributions etc it comes to €290,000. Cant see the average doctors earning that ? And middle eastern airlines pay more believe it or not! Air traffic controllers are the highest earners and it has been said they earned up to 900,000 last year in Spain.

There are incredible travel perks. You'll also have the opportunity to work with people from all over the continent and globally in some airlines, hold a valued position, get to see the world, Learn a new language, and enjoy free travel and accommodation concessions. And be a part of one of the world's largest and most technically advanced industries.

Sure the pay might be higher in some cases? But I've heard you have to pay something like €100,000 for training?
I could be very wrong though.

Also, being a doctor is certainly not "just the boring 9-5 every single day for your whole life!" I'm sure aviation would get incredibly boring after 5 or so years..

youtheman

!MAVERICK! wrote: »

Apart from the financial aspect ( which I personally dont even think is that rewarding for its work load and educational requirements)

If you into money, and I'm not saying for a minute that all Doctors are into money, then you can become a 'Consultant'. And you can use the State's facilities to operate a handy 'nixer'. It would be like an Aer Lingus pilot borrowing an Airbus for the weekend to transport his buddies for hire and reward.

IveSeenFire

randylonghorn wrote: »

It's also in the country's interest, therefore, that some of those "best minds" are involved in keeping all those other "best minds" in good physical and mental health, surely?

Yes, some, but a minority. You don't have to be a genius to be a doctor after all. We seem to churn out the doctors and produce no great economists/engineers etc hence why Irish businesses produce almost no internationally tradable goods. The problem is bigger than people appreciate in my opinion.

randylonghorn

IveSeenFire wrote: »

You don't have to be a genius to be a doctor after all.

... but it helps! That said, I would argue that qualities like empathy etc. are at least as important to a good doctor as purely academic intelligence.

IveSeenFire wrote: »

We seem to churn out the doctors and produce no great economists/engineers etc hence why Irish businesses produce almost no internationally tradable goods. The problem is bigger than people appreciate in my opinion.

There are more factors involved than that, I suspect, but I do agree with you re: Ireland not traditionally shining when it comes to producing engineers / innovators. I don't see, however, why you're boiling it down to doctors vs. engineers (etc.) ... in my experience, the type of person and indeed the type of mind which tends to gravitate towards either option is quite different one from the other, and pushing them into the other channel would only produce round pegs in square holes.

Where I think a lot of people on this thread might agree though is that medicine seems to be seen as prestigious by people like careers guidance teachers and indeed even parents sometimes in a way which engineering etc. is not, and that that's not a particularly healthy thing. Imho, young people should be encouraged to follow up on their strengths and interests, whether that's medicine, engineering, social sciences or humanities ... NOT pressured to do some course because its "high points".

rainbowtrout

!MAVERICK! wrote: »

Can someone give me valid reasons why there is such high demand for this career in the country??? Apart from the financial aspect ( which I personally dont even think is that rewarding for its work load and educational requirements) Theres loads of other careers which out pass doctors in earnings

I mean you spend half your life studying for the blooming thing and I dont see the role of a doctor as such an attractive profession. You deal with sick,vile, gruesome and diseased people every day for the majority of the day and for the rest of your life.

Id say 70 percent or more of students attending my school will have it as their first choice on their CAO. Whats with the big consensus on it like ? Pick something different for Jesus sake! Particularly the international students.

I mean is there even future employment prospects for the industry with the major HSE cuts?

Can you give some valid reasons why you are so bothered by what other people do with their lives?

Some people don't view other humans as 'sick, vile, gruesome and diseased'. Some people view humans with empathy and would like to make a difference to their lives as horrific as that sounds to you. Other people make that difference in other ways. I'm sure there are plenty of doctors out there who do get satisfaction from seeing a sick person and being able to help them.

Most of your posts seem to revolve around money or the fact that a career in medicine isn't worth the time and effort needed to qualify. It might strike you as odd but not everyone in the world is obsessed with money.

To answer your other question. Medicine has long been regarded as a career with status in Ireland. Consider many of the rural towns and villages. Places without much industry or work. All of these places at the very least had a doctor, a teacher, a priest and a guard. Many of these professions were considered to be prestigious in small communities where everyone knows everyone else. Before free education came in, if you didn't have money you didn't go to college so naturally those that entered professions such as medicine, dentistry, law etc came from backgrounds where their families were generally better off and so the cycle continues. Couple that with the fact that there are still only limited places in medicine in Ireland and you have a career with good prospects, decent wage, decent standard of life and a bit of status if you're into that sort of thing.

Free education has levelled the playing field to a large extent and opened up college to those who may have never attended otherwise. So medicine is now open to a larger pool of people making the race for places more competitive. If you're from a background where there is little or no tradition of third level education it is probably still up there as one of the most prestigious careers a person could have. Not just because of the high points and the money but the other benefits that it brings.

I myself am a teacher, I was the first of my cousins to go to third level. Not because of lack of ability but because of lack of money/college education wasn't free when older cousins were doing the Leaving/lack of interest/ no previous tradition of going to third level in family etc etc. It was big news in the family when not only did I get into college but I got into a 'University' and I was going to be a teacher! Can you imagine what the reaction would have been if I had applied for medicine?

To ask you a question: Is there even any job prospects in the aviation industry? Many airlines have gone bust in the last few years and plenty of qualified pilots are finding it hard to get work. I know one pilot who was working for an airline that went bust, only job he could get was flying internal flights in Nigeria. He was living in a compound on his days off as it was too dangerous to go outside. Hardly what you would call seeing the world.

seriouslysweet

I really don't get why people think there is a lot of money in medicine. My Dad claims he has spent well up on a quarter of a million on his education and insurance thusfar, so a lot of it goes on that!

Patri

God forbid you ever fall ill OP because you'll know what being a doctor means then.

Fad

I know med students, and despite how horrendous their course is at times, it's still quite appealing (Granted, I prefer other areas of science, so I sincerely doubt I'll ever go near it).

It is a very broad degree, and you dont necessarily have to go on and become a doctor in a hospital after, you could go on to do research in a lab environment, you could do that in conjunction with academic work and become a lecturer, you could teach second level.

Working conditions here are horrendous, the dog work you have to do here to eventually make money would negate the nice salary dream. But I really doubt the majority of people going for it are in it for the money.

!MAVERICK!

BostonB wrote: »

Its probably harder to get into flying than medicine. But good luck with that. Dunno why you've got such an axe to grind against medicine though.

No its not, you havent got a clue, Ryanair and Easyjet are recruiting pilots at huge rate at the moment, despite the deregulation of the aviation industry. Ryanair will continue to grow and grow to become the largest airline in the world. In 5-10 years time, they will be recruiting at an even higher rate. furthermore when you have a wide range of contacts that are high up in the company you want to work for, its a walk in. Only takes a year to learn to fly as well.

Contrasting to the medical career which requires 600 puntos in the LC which very few achieve, HPAT pass, 6-10 years more in college, and alot of financial backing to pay for the training which could be considered as equal as the amount paid for flight training.

So how could a career in aviation be harder to get into than medicine? your still thinking about aviation as it was 20-30 years ago, the industry has changed now. And the reason why I am grinding against medicine is because there are too many students thinking they will achieve 600 points in their LC this year which they wont, in my school anyway.

!MAVERICK!

rainbowtrout wrote: »

To ask you a question: Is there even any job prospects in the aviation industry? Many airlines have gone bust in the last few years and plenty of qualified pilots are finding it hard to get work. I know one pilot who was working for an airline that went bust, only job he could get was flying internal flights in Nigeria. He was living in a compound on his days off as it was too dangerous to go outside. Hardly what you would call seeing the world.

Yes air traffic controller exams are taking place this year which there will always be a demand for. And there will also be a demand for over 500,000 pilots throughout Europe in the next 10 years. And the only airlines that have gone bust are the high fare airlines that cant deal with the low fares they are competing with such as Aer Lingus, Lufthansa, Air France, Iberia and BA and so on.

Ryanair are the only reliable source of employment in the aviation industry in Ireland to answer your question.

!MAVERICK!

TehFionnster wrote: »

Sure the pay might be higher in some cases? But I've heard you have to pay something like €100,000 for training?
I could be very wrong though.

Also, being a doctor is certainly not "just the boring 9-5 every single day for your whole life!" I'm sure aviation would get incredibly boring after 5 or so years..

True, many pilots do become sick of their job, but they are the ones that just saw the job as highly paid and don't actually hold a passion for flying.

And yes many people will pay up to 100,000 for flight training, but they are only the expensive over priced flight training organizations such as Oxford aviation academy, and the rip off flight schools here in Ireland like PTC in waterford or the NFC in Weston. If you wanted to become a pilot tomorrow you could properly become a qualified pilot next year for around 50,000 euros at least in the UK. Maybe 45,000 euros in the states.

!MAVERICK!

BostonB wrote: »

What about flying doctors. Do you dislike them too?

My GP was once a pilot, thats the only reason why I got to him.

RMD

!MAVERICK! wrote: »

What differentiates a job in aviation from everyday job like a doctor is .... you'll enjoy a flexible schedule, thats not just the boring 9-5 every single day for your whole life!

A whole lot more responsibility in your hands at a younger age. All the responsibility a doctor has is to look after senile and sick people. And after you finish studying medicine your hairs will of gone gray, and everyone will of had at least a job before you.

Its more sociable and less stressful than health careers.

There is much higher pay to earn as being a pilot or air traffic controller, Average captain salary in Aer Lingus is currently just over €206,000 to be almost exact. When you add the extras such as performance pay, flying pay, pension contributions etc it comes to €290,000. Cant see the average doctors earning that ? And middle eastern airlines pay more believe it or not! Air traffic controllers are the highest earners and it has been said they earned up to 900,000 last year in Spain.

You know so little about Medicine it's embarassing yourself.

You talk about becoming an Air Traffic Controller yet mention one of the faults of health care being stres? ATC is arguably one of the most stressful jobs in the world if you're working in a busy airport. You make a mistake and you're potentially dooming 200+ people to death.

BostonB

!MAVERICK! wrote: »

No its not, you havent got a clue, Ryanair and Easyjet are recruiting pilots at huge rate at the moment, despite the deregulation of the aviation industry. Ryanair will continue to grow and grow to become the largest airline in the world. In 5-10 years time, they will be recruiting at an even higher rate. furthermore when you have a wide range of contacts that are high up in the company you want to work for, its a walk in. Only takes a year to learn to fly as well. ...

You should tell the guys on PPrune that. The forums over there have always been full of people who can't get into aviation. Also of people in aviation moaning about how bad it is. Of course if you can walk into it. Why are you here, giving out about medicine. It should be irrelevant to you.

BostonB

!MAVERICK! wrote: »

My GP was once a pilot, thats the only reason why I got to him.

Once a pilot. Now a GP.

RMD

BostonB wrote: »

You should tell the guys on PPrune that. The forums over there have always been full of people who can't get into aviation. Also of people in aviation moaning about how bad it is. Of course if you can walk into it. Why are you here, giving out about medicine. It should be irrelevant to you.

A close friend of mine got his pilot license in America last year and after searching for a job for 4 months there he's had to come back here to sit 9 exams here so he can apply for a job in Ireland, to which he's worried about not getting a job. Certainly sounds like a career anyone can walk into.

randylonghorn

!MAVERICK! wrote: »

Contrasting to the medical career which requires 600 puntos in the LC ...

No, it doesn't.

Decent points, yes, but 600 or near it is not essential. In fact since they changed the system a couple of years ago, those extra points after 560 are of far less benefit to candidates (whether that's a good or a bad thing is a different discussion).

!MAVERICK! wrote: »

And the reason why I am grinding against medicine is because there are too many students thinking they will achieve 600 points in their LC this year which they wont, in my school anyway.

Their problem, surely?

Why is it any concern of yours, or why do you feel the need to "grind against" it quite so passionately?

I had the points for medicine in my time, but absolutely no interest in following that path. It didn't make me want to disparage those who did, though.

rainbowtrout

!MAVERICK! wrote: »

Yes air traffic controller exams are taking place this year which there will always be a demand for. And there will also be a demand for over 500,000 pilots throughout Europe in the next 10 years. And the only airlines that have gone bust are the high fare airlines that cant deal with the low fares they are competing with such as Aer Lingus, Lufthansa, Air France, Iberia and BA and so on.

Ryanair are the only reliable source of employment in the aviation industry in Ireland to answer your question.

Have you got a link to back up that figure. I have never heard of any profession where it is expected that half a million jobs become available in any space of time.

There are exams taking place for jobs a whole host of professions this year which there will always be a demand for yet that doesn't mean there are any jobs in the area.

!MAVERICK!

RMD wrote: »

A close friend of mine got his pilot license in America last year and after searching for a job for 4 months there he's had to come back here to sit 9 exams here so he can apply for a job in Ireland, to which he's worried about not getting a job. Certainly sounds like a career anyone can walk into.

Thats because he got an FAA licence, which is foolish. Has he carried out all of his licences in America? there isn't just one course your know, theres about 6 licences you need to hold in order to apply for an airline. Airlines in Europe prefer to recruit pilots who carried out all of their training under a certified JAA (Joint aviaiton authority) (European) FTO (Flight training organization). Plus does he have any contacts in any airlines???

!MAVERICK!

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Have you got a link to back up that figure. I have never heard of any profession where it is expected that half a million jobs become available in any space of time.

There are exams taking place for jobs a whole host of professions this year which there will always be a demand for yet that doesn't mean there are any jobs in the area.

Do you even read the news? do you know anything?

Heres your evidence!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11328092

BostonB

If someone is telling you something is great, look at what they sell.

http://www.pprune.org/interviews-jobs-sponsorship/440649-will-there-panic-hiring.html

littlehedgehog

That says half a million globally, not in europe - mainly in Asia. The article says that China MAY have to hire pilots from abroad due to this increase in travel. I wouldn't extrapolate a massive explosion in the European end of things just from that. My cousin is fully trained, and hasn't been able to find a job in Europe for the past year. Just because you have contacts to get you a job, doesn't make the industry easy and open to get in to, with plenty of jobs.
Also, I find you unnecessarily aggressive, and abrasive. You asked a question, and have been aggressive to anyone who diagreed with you for absolutely no reason. What is your issue with doctors, and the people who have backed up the profession?

!MAVERICK!

Jean wrote: »

That says half a million globally, not in europe - mainly in Asia. The article says that China MAY have to hire pilots from abroad due to this increase in travel. I wouldn't extrapolate a massive explosion in the European end of things just from that. My cousin is fully trained, and hasn't been able to find a job in Europe for the past year. Just because you have contacts to get you a job, doesn't make the industry easy and open to get in to, with plenty of jobs.
Also, I find you unnecessarily aggressive, and abrasive. You asked a question, and have been aggressive to anyone who diagreed with you for absolutely no reason. What is your issue with doctors, and the people who have backed up the profession?

Can you comprehend anything?

The article states
The global aviation industry will need to train and employ almost half a million new pilots over the next 20 years, according to the US aircraft manufacturer Boeing.

Currently, some 233,000 pilots and 100,000 mechanics and engineers work for airlines worldwide, Boeing said.

About 40% of the extra demand would come from Asia, Boeing said.

With demand set to rise particularly fast in Asia, especially in China, some 180,600 of the pilots and 220,000 of the mechanics would be needed there.

Some 466,650 newly trained pilots and 596,500 newly trained maintenance staff will be needed between 2010 and 2029, Boeing predicted.

286,050 pilots should be hired outside of asia, including the US and Europe. Now that should be more than enough to find employment.

randylonghorn

!MAVERICK! wrote: »

And there will also be a demand for over 500,000 pilots throughout Europe in the next 10 years.

!MAVERICK! wrote: »

Can you comprehend anything?

286,050 pilots should be hired outside of asia, including the US and Europe. Now that should be more than enough to find employment.

Em, seems to me that you're the one who didn't comprehend the figures properly the first time.


Seems to me that this thread has outlived its usefulness ... if it ever had any.

Locked.