Gerry Adams? Are things that bad?

wee truck big driver

steve9859 wrote: »

SF have a very clear finance policy. Their finance representative clearly outlined it on Vincent Browne last night. It went like this (and I am serious!)

1: Unilaterally default on our debt.
2: use the national pension reserve fund to run the country
3: If that doesnt work, go back to the banks to look for a new loan (the ones we have just screwed)

If there ever was a 'facepalm' moment.....!!

i thought thats what larry goodman did and look at him now.
the first thing f.f, f.g/lab. or going to do is give away the pension reserve so that we have absolutely nothing in the kitty then borrow billions at rates we cant afford to just put the enevitable of for another year to pay for the banks debts for which the irish people have no legal obligation. when in a years time the inevitable failure of ability to pay or loan debts occur we will be even deeper in debt with even less options to borrow and no way to default. if this was a household and you had money in the kitty and a car loan which you cant afford to pay and cant afford to put petrol in. do you use all the money in the kitty paying the car loan till you have none left and then let them take the car or do you hold on to your money and tell the bank to come and take the car away

Lord TSC

wee truck big driver wrote: »

the first thing f.f, f.g/lab. or going to do...

You do realise you are the only person in this thread (at least in the last few pages) who is continuing to bring up FF, FG and Lab? Rather than answering the questions aimed at SF, you seem to constantly be posting as if everyone is going on about how great the other parties are. So far, I've not seen anyone defend those parties. So why do you keep bringing their policies up when the topic is clearly calling on people to discuss SF's.

And thank you Wolfe Tone for finally providing a link to back up the points...

wee truck big driver

marienbad wrote: »

He is not being obtuse al all Wolftone,( and I suspect you know that) . He and others posters are simply asking those supporting the SF view to provide some information on their policies and thus prompt a debate on those policies.

One of the ideal uses of boards I would think.

No different to me saying my favourite car is a Mondeo or a Merc and you , quite reasonably ask me why .

not a resonable question is it though, considering you have already decided not to vote for sinn fein. lets stop all this pretending that if sinn fein produced the figures you would all change your minds in the morning and vote for them it wont happen. lets call a spade a spade if you thought that the ira where a bunch of murdering scum you aint going to vote sinn fein, if you thought the ira where defending irish nationalists from attack by loyalist and the british, attacking an oppressive regime in a country where they had no buisness and policing the nationalist communitys against scumbags then you will. simple enough

wee truck big driver

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

You do realise you are the only person in this thread (at least in the last few pages) who is continuing to bring up FF, FG and Lab? Rather than answering the questions aimed at SF, you seem to constantly be posting as if everyone is going on about how great the other parties are. So far, I've not seen anyone defend those parties. So why do you keep bringing their policies up when the topic is clearly calling on people to discuss SF's.

And thank you Wolfe Tone for finally providing a link to back up the points...

is there some party worthy of a mention that i left out

Bosh

Round and round and round we go.....:rolleyes:

Don't bother, even if he could answer, he wouldn't.

Lord TSC

Bosh wrote: »

Round and round and round we go.....:rolleyes:

Don't bother, even if he could answer, he wouldn't.

Yeah, I'm done. Once again, the shield of "you think SF are murderers" has gone back up so unless some new points are made (preferably with some punctuation included), I'm done.

wee truck big driver

so we are all agreed then sinn fein is the only option then

phantom_lord

Baylee Few Tigress wrote: »

1. Regenerate the economy by investing in a major job creation programme to get Ireland back to work

You forgot to mention the bit where they plan to regenerate the economy by doubling capital gains, taxing productive members of society out of the country, introducing a capital tax and increasing dirt tax.

Anyone seriously considering voting for such an economically incompetent party in these times, or indeed any time, needs their head examined.

Wolfe Tone

Nah, SWP is where its at.....

Wolfe Tone

phantom_lord wrote: »

You forgot to mention the bit where they plan to regenerate the economy by doubling capital gains, taxing productive members of society out of the country, introducing a capital tax and increasing dirt tax.

Anyone seriously considering voting for such an economically incompetent party in these times, or indeed any time, needs their head examined.

The richer in society should pay more as they can afford it. I mean substantially more.

phantom_lord

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

The richer in society should pay more as they can afford it. I mean substantially more.

Such a statement just shows a lack of understanding.

They already do, they already pay the vast bulk of the tax take, strangling them even more is only going to grind the economy to a halt as you stifle business and force people to leave. SF would actually be driving capital out of the country. Such socialist rhetoric does not work in real life. And what should they be paying for exactly? For SF supporters to sit on the dole?

SF show how utterly incompetent they are with such policies, have they honestly not researched the effects that they would cause? They'd actually be reducing tax take.

wee truck big driver

just out of interest where or these productive members of society (who use every loop hole in the f.f book to avoid paying taxes) going to go. where is this magic land where the good ole rich folk pay no tax

marienbad

wee truck big driver wrote: »

not a resonable question is it though, considering you have already decided not to vote for sinn fein. lets stop all this pretending that if sinn fein produced the figures you would all change your minds in the morning and vote for them it wont happen. lets call a spade a spade if you thought that the ira where a bunch of murdering scum you aint going to vote sinn fein, if you thought the ira where defending irish nationalists from attack by loyalist and the british, attacking an oppressive regime in a country where they had no buisness and policing the nationalist communitys against scumbags then you will. simple enough

Completely reasonable question ,Wee Truck, and your response shows why people are slow to vote for SF and it just goes to re-enforce the stereotype that SF are a single issue party.

May I suggest some reasons why you and other SF supporters might engage a bit more ?

-It is a post GFA world, show you are more than a single issue party

- begin to treat the electorate with the respect that a democracy requires . Regard every question as genuine. You may not get their vote this time but next time and the time after , who knows.

- more people are going to vote in this election that ever before and more people are going to switch allegiance than ever before, give them a reason to vote for you, not a reason to vote for the other guy.

- Disillusioned FF voters are looking for a home , it could be you.

- Finally and most importantly , there is going to be a huge amount of tactical voting against FF in this election. Give people that would never do otherwise the incentive to continue down than ballot card and tick the SF box, if only to keep FF out. A lot of seats are going to go long into the night and just a few votes could swing it.

phantom_lord

wee truck big driver wrote: »

just out of interest where or these productive members of society (who use every loop hole in the f.f book to avoid paying taxes) going to go. where is this magic land where the good ole rich folk pay no tax

Most countries aren't planning on implementing punitive taxes on people earning 100k+.

wee truck big driver

but sure they avoid paying any taxes anyway and so they arent contributing to society anyway. i still want to know where they or going to go

phantom_lord

wee truck big driver wrote: »

but sure they avoid paying any taxes anyway and so they arent contributing to society anyway.

Yes PAYE workers don't pay tax :rolleyes:

i still want to know where they or going to go

Um, anywhere else? You really think a highly qualified person with high mobility is going to stay here paying punitive taxes?

wee truck big driver

phantom_lord wrote: »

Yes PAYE workers don't pay tax :rolleyes:



Um, anywhere else? You really think a highly qualified person with high mobility is going to stay here paying punitive taxes?

so what your saying is your average joe soap earning between 20 and 80,000 should be the ones to support the rest of society, so just more of the same

Wolfe Tone

phantom_lord wrote: »

Such a statement just shows a lack of understanding.

They already do, they already pay the vast bulk of the tax take, strangling them even more is only going to grind the economy to a halt as you stifle business and force people to leave. SF would actually be driving capital out of the country. Such socialist rhetoric does not work in real life. And what should they be paying for exactly? For SF supporters to sit on the dole?

SF show how utterly incompetent they are with such policies, have they honestly not researched the effects that they would cause? They'd actually be reducing tax take.

Instead it is proposed to punish the poorest in society and force them to emigrate.

phantom_lord

wee truck big driver wrote: »

so what your saying is your average joe soap earning between 20 and 80,000 should be the ones to support the rest of society, so just more of the same

Um, no. I presume this is just going continue? You say something irrational, I correct it, and then you come up with a new irrational statement until one of us gets bored?

Maybe you should go look current tax structure and where most of the tax revenue comes from.

Instead it is proposed to punish the poorest in society and force them to emigrate.

What's your basis for that statement? SF's policies paradoxically would actually punish the poor, just in an indirect way.

Wolfe Tone

What's your basis for that statement? SF's policies paradoxically would actually punish the poor, just in an indirect way.

Take for example the minimum wage being cut, widening tax bands, the new levy, cutting social welfare, all are combining to simply make it unviable for working class people to remain here.

marienbad

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Take for example the minimum wage being cut, widening tax bands, the new levy, cutting social welfare, all are combining to simply make it unviable for working class people to remain here.

Are you serious ?? If the tax take is down the payouts from it must come down also . If not within 10 years it will be like living in the Ireland of the 1950's.

What is making it unviable for working class people to remain here is the same things that are making it unviable for and middle class people, and graduates, and people with families to remain here. Jobs

Taxing the rich is just a meaningless slogan , to someone unemployed someone with a job is well off etc etc.

What and who do you mean by ''the rich''

Wolfe Tone

marienbad wrote: »

Are you serious ?? If the tax take is down the payouts from it must come down also . If not within 10 years it will be like living in the Ireland of the 1950's.

What is making it unviable for working class people to remain here is the same things that are making it unviable for and middle class people, and graduates, and people with families to remain here. Jobs

Taxing the rich is just a meaningless slogan , to someone unemployed someone with a job is well off etc etc.

What and who do you mean by ''the rich''

Yes, thats why you increase tax on those who can afford it.


People with grossly extravagant salaries, and assets.

marienbad

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Yes, thats why you increase tax on those who can afford it.


People with grossly extravagant salaries, and assets.

Are you saying then that we increase taxes to such a level as to bridge the gap between government spending and government income ?

Wolfe Tone

marienbad wrote: »

Are you saying then that we increase taxes to such a level as to bridge the gap between government spending and government income ?

Govt spending can certainly be cut in certain areas, but the disadvantaged should not suffer.

marienbad

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Govt spending can certainly be cut in certain areas, but the disadvantaged should not suffer.

The disadvantaged should not suffer is easy to say but how to achieve it or define it is quite a different matter. What do you consider disadvantaged ?

phantom_lord

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Yes, thats why you increase tax on those who can afford it.


People with grossly extravagant salaries, and assets.

What are you a communist or something?

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Take for example the minimum wage being cut, widening tax bands, the new levy, cutting social welfare, all are combining to simply make it unviable for working class people to remain here.

Those apply to everyone. What SF are proposing is a punitive tax on people.

The funny thing is is SF policies were introduced to would actually hurt the "working class" people even more by causing greater unemployment.

10green bottles

phantom_lord wrote: »

What are you a communist or something?



Those apply to everyone. What SF are proposing is a punitive tax on people.

The funny thing is is SF policies were introduced to would actually hurt the "working class" people even more by causing greater unemployment.

We have an election here were left should become left and right should become right. Yet we could have a completly crazy meeting of these children as a Goverment!!!Specifcaly im speaking about the union of The Irish Labour Party and Fine Gael.Labour, A left wing party led by Mr Gilmore(formly an extreme leftist,call him what you want) and a right wing ultra by the name of Enda Kenny!! Now is that a Goverment i can trust??
This country will have 2 or 3 more elections in the next 4 years until we get the goverment we deserve.
we are a broken country,and it may all take a while.

Wolfe Tone

Im a socialist.

UDAWINNER

the simple thing is the highly paid should be taxed more as opposed to cutting the payments to the blind, the disabled, etc. How anyone could agree to these cuts in the first place is a mystery.

calex71

10green bottles wrote: »

We have an election here were left should become left and right should become right. Yet we could have a completly crazy meeting of these children as a Goverment!!!Specifcaly im speaking about the union of The Irish Labour Party and Fine Gael.Labour, A left wing party led by Mr Gilmore(formly an extreme leftist,call him what you want) and a right wing ultra by the name of Enda Kenny!! Now is that a Goverment i can trust??
This country will have 2 or 3 more elections in the next 4 years until we get the goverment we deserve.
we are a broken country,and it may all take a while.

Agree there regards more elections, I really can see it happening.

Regards left and right, I really don't think we have that here in the strictest of senses with the exception of the tiny insignificant socialist party's (and I don't mean that as a jibe at them but in the grand scheme of things thats how they are ), here they are a little left and a little right. Which for me as a voter infuriates me, as when it comes down to it they can say what they will and campaign on what ever, there is very little if anything true to differentiate them and the blame for that lies squarely with them the politicians

I could care less who is left or right or up or down or black or white as long as they get get the bloody job done. If i thought Gerry Adams or Micheál Martin or Gilmore or Kenny could get the job done I'd vote for them. Now I feel I'm left to choose from who can do the least further damage.

/end rant

10green bottles

The Labour party,by Putting Mary Moran on the ticket in North Louth have carried out a cynical exercise.
Ged Nash is unknown in the north county so Labour are now trying to push a "Dundalk" Candidate with no known political or local knowledge onto the people of the constituency to try to hoover up support for their South Louth "Darling"
**note to Labour,it wont feckin' work" **
:pac:

calex71

10green bottles wrote: »

The Labour party,by Putting Mary Moran on the ticket in North Louth have carried out a cynical exercise.
Ged Nash is unknown in the north county so Labour are now trying to push a "Dundalk" Candidate with no known political or local knowledge onto the people of the constituency to try to hoover up support for their South Louth "Darling"
**note to Labour,it wont feckin' work" **
:pac:

Is he actually going as "Ged" on the posters etc

If so, yeah I'll vote for him cuz he has street cred and is over 40 and still uses a nick name :cool:

10green bottles

calex71 wrote: »

Is he actually going as "Ged" on the posters etc

If so, yeah I'll vote for him cuz he has street cred and is over 40 and still uses a nick name :cool:

Dont forget Biggins(sp)
If thats the way to get people to vote for Adams then it's "Gea says yay":pac:

southlouth type

calex71 wrote: »

Is he actually going as "Ged" on the posters etc

If so, yeah I'll vote for him cuz he has street cred and is over 40 and still uses a nick name :cool:

Its gerald actually and hes no where near 40 just yet . Id say ged nash is about 35 . Im 37 and im positive hes a few years younger than me . He just looks like and old git

calex71

southlouth type wrote: »

Its gerald actually and hes no where near 40 just yet . Id say ged nash is about 35 . Im 37 and im positive hes a few years younger than me . He just looks like and old git

Lol

Lord TSC

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Im a socialist.

AH! Awesome. There's a question I was hoping you'd answer...

A few months back, I was having a debate with a socialist on another section of this site. We were arguing back and forth about the pros and cons about socialism when he blurted out that if socialists got into power, they would abolish the police force. When I tried to pull him up on this statement and question him about how society would continue without a police force, he made one or two snarky remarks before ignoring me completly.

So I have to ask, since I have found another one; is this true? Does socialism really aim to abolish a working police force in the state?

3ndahalfof6

Bosh wrote: »

First of all, try using the 'enter' key after one or two sentences, it might then be possible to make some sense of this incoherent rambling.

You obviously think Adams can do no wrong and that Fitzpatrick is unsuitable.

At least Fitzpatrick, of whom I know very little, is from Louth whereas Adams has as much connection with this county as the Pope.

He has so far shown me nothing that would in any way encourage me to vote for him, his party has no meaningful policy on any of the current issues facing the country.

They are simply trading on the Republican sentiment and the disaffection with the main political parties.

Do you think this about all the SF candidates, I agree Gerry may not be the best person to send to give elocution lessons, he is a figure head for the party and this may be looked at more closely after the election,

He will be in opposition so does it really matter unless he is a great shouter.

3ndahalfof6

phantom_lord wrote: »

You forgot to mention the bit where they plan to regenerate the economy by doubling capital gains, taxing productive members of society out of the country, introducing a capital tax and increasing dirt tax.

Anyone seriously considering voting for such an economically incompetent party in these times, or indeed any time, needs their head examined.

Maybe there is the problem, no heads were examined before the last election.

amacachi

Any sign of him canvassing yet?

phantom_lord

Not that I've heard of. Saw one of his posters for the first time the other day and felt genuinely ill.

Wolfe Tone

phantom_lord wrote: »

Not that I've heard of. Saw one of his posters for the first time the other day and felt genuinely ill.

How pathetic.



Yeah he has been, at leasts he says so on his facebook page.

amacachi

phantom_lord wrote: »

Not that I've heard of. Saw one of his posters for the first time the other day and felt genuinely ill.

Dundalk is disgusting with the amount of posters around. Shouldn't be allowed

phantom_lord

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

How pathetic.



Yeah he has been, at leasts he says so on his facebook page.

Has he figured out what part of Ireland makes up the constituency yet?

I think it's pretty pathetic and embarrassing that's there enough die hard republicans around to allow him to waltz into a seat and represent this area, each to his own I guess.

Wolfe Tone

phantom_lord wrote: »

Has he figured out what part of Ireland makes up the constituency yet?

I think it's pretty pathetic and embarrassing that's there enough die hard republicans around to allow him to waltz into a seat and represent this area, each to his own I guess.

"Die hard republicans" wouldn't vote for Adams.

hawk222

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

AH! Awesome. There's a question I was hoping you'd answer...

A few months back, I was having a debate with a socialist on another section of this site. We were arguing back and forth about the pros and cons about socialism when he blurted out that if socialists got into power, they would abolish the police force. When I tried to pull him up on this statement and question him about how society would continue without a police force, he made one or two snarky remarks before ignoring me completly.

So I have to ask, since I have found another one; is this true? Does socialism really aim to abolish a working police force in the state?

my god our you for real

Scotty #

amacachi wrote: »

Any sign of him canvassing yet?

Adams? Sure wouldn't that mean he'd actually have to come to Louth? Sure what would he do that for?

The people of Louth need their heads examined if they elect someone who has so little to do with the constituency.

He's just been on Newstalk again now talking about capping ALL public service wages at €100K, like it would be a good thing! It's comical!

danbohan

Scotty # wrote: »

Adams? Sure wouldn't that mean he'd actually have to come to Louth? Sure what would he do that for?

The people of Louth need their heads examined if they elect someone who has so little to do with the constituency.

He's just been on Newstalk again now talking about capping ALL public service wages at €100K, like it would be a good thing! It's comical!

capping ALL public service wages at €100K,

you mean paying our doctors etc the same as the germans and french do is very very wrong is it ?

Scotty #

If it means getting 2nd rate doctors then YES! It's very very wrong.

What about the Hospital GM's that can earn 5x 6x that... what kind do you think you are going to get for €100K??

Advertise for a new CSO of Bord Gais at €100K and see what kind or response you get. Do you think you will get the best man (or woman) for the job..? Or the best one for the job AND will work for pittance (compared to what CEO's in similar sized companies get)?

These jobs need the most competent, educated, and experienced person available. Not someone who was willing to work for €100K.

Public sector pay should be in line with Private sector pay.

The idea of capping the top Guards, Fire Chiefs, Judges, Teachers, Professors, Doctors, Civil Servants, and yes...even Ministers, salaries at €100K is ludicrous! And only someone who hasn't a clue what they are talking about could come up with the idea!

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

danbohan wrote: »

capping ALL public service wages at €100K,

you mean paying our doctors etc the same as the germans and french do is very very wrong is it ?

He was specifically not referring to the Health Service. He was actually referring to the salaries of the CEOs of State Bodies being capped at €100k; which is total nonsense and shows how removed from reality the man it. Some state bodies have turnovers of several hundred million per annum. They manage assets valued at 7 or 8 Billion in some cases and employ thousands of people. Any CEO of a company that size in the private sector would be on multiples of the current salaries. Up to 5 layers down in these companies can earn in excess €100k, so how could you restrict the CEO to €100k? On top of all this paying peanuts...

Gerry Adams has proven time and again that he does not have any idea of what goes on in the real world, or how business or economics work. But I suppose he thinks (and maybe is correct to a degree) he is playing to the audience.

danbohan

Scotty # wrote: »

If it means getting 2nd rate doctors then YES! It's very very wrong.

What about the Hospital GM's that can earn 5x 6x that... what kind do you think you are going to get for €100K??

Advertise for a new CSO of Bord Gais at €100K and see what kind or response you get. Do you think you will get the best man (or woman) for the job..? Or the best one for the job AND will work for pittance (compared to what CEO's in similar sized companies get)?

These jobs need the most competent, educated, and experienced person available. Not someone who was willing to work for €100K.

Public sector pay should be in line with Private sector pay.

The idea of capping the top Guards, Fire Chiefs, Judges, Teachers, Professors, Doctors, Civil Servants, and yes...even Ministers, salaries at €100K is ludicrous! And only someone who hasn't a clue what they are talking about could come up with the idea!

its pretty obvious you have no experience of the French and German health system then , ours is second rate theirs is not . our public service are inefficient and grossly overpaid in many cases

whats ludicrous is that people in a bankrupt country believe that our top public servants should be paid 2 x 3 times the salary of top public servants in country's that are bailing us out
now that is somebody that does not know what they are talking about !