Andy Gray & Richard Keys in hot "sexist" water .

niallo27

MrStuffins wrote: »

So now you finally agree that it was wrong. hurrah!!

And about the press, X-Factor, Jade Goody, Posh Spice, Big Brother........... none of these deserve press. But this is how the press works.

if you don't wanna be humiliated in the press, don't be humiliating your female collegues at work.

I always said it was wrong, but it was just a bit of craic, i dont think they deserve to lose their jobs over it

MrStuffins

niallo27 wrote: »

I always said it was wrong, but it was just a bit of craic, i dont think they deserve to lose their jobs over it

This could be just an example of the type of stuff Andy Gray does to his female collegues on a daily basis.

niallo27

MrStuffins wrote: »

This could be just an example of the type of stuff Andy Gray does to his female collegues on a daily basis.

Yes and it could be a one off, when was the Charlotte jackson clip from anyway

Pinturicchio

niallo27 wrote: »

Yes and it could be a one off, when was the Charlotte jackson clip from anyway

Last month.

Exclamation Marc

niallo27 wrote: »

I always said it was wrong, but it was just a bit of craic, i dont think they deserve to lose their jobs over it

Doesn't "a bit of craic" mean that both parties are having a "bit of craic" and enjoying themselves, as opposed to one person just demeaning other people?

murpho999

MrStuffins wrote: »

I dont have to make it sound like anything, everyone has seen the video.

You are suggesting it is ok for Andy Gray to sexually harrass a women at work, because some of her collegues did an impression of Charlies Angels.

Would ya cop on and come into the 21st Century!

Hold on, I don't think he was sexually harassing anyone in that clip.

Thing is that we don't know went on before that shot, maybe it's a running joke in the studio. We don't know Gray's relationship with the girl, maybe they are always slagging each other.

I find it a bit too far that you cannot joke with a woman at work and it's automatically deemed sexual harassment.

Don't get me wrong, I think Gray and Keys were totally wrong in their comments about Sian Massey & Karren Brady on Saturday, especially as they didn't appear to be joking and were very serious about their views, which is clearly wrong and dated and for which they deserved their reprimand. But for goodness sake, be sensible about it.

Having a joke with someone in work is par for the course and in my past I have worked with women who could give as good as they get.......if something is said in a non-lewd way then it can be fun and innofensive and all depends on the intent behind it.

Either way think it's unfair to judge or label Gray based on a 30 second edited clip!

KeithAFC

Degag wrote: »

Looks like they're just having the craic myself. Gullit doesn't even look up from his phone.

Doesn't look like he gives a fk too.

K-9

LOL at top 5 most read articles on Times website:

niallo27

FireballPitcher wrote: »

Doesn't "a bit of craic" mean that both parties are having a "bit of craic" and enjoying themselves, as opposed to one person just demeaning other people?

we dont know what happened before or after

Happy Monday

Storm in a D cup.

KeithAFC

One of the most important things to consider in this is the power of editing. Anyone who has watched Big Brother over the years would understand just how powerful editing is and how it can make people see something different to what it should be seen as if they see the original video/audio clip.

Exclamation Marc

murpho999 wrote: »

Hold on, I don't think he was sexually harassing anyone in that clip.

Thing is that we don't know went on before that shot, maybe it's a running joke in the studio. We don't Gray's relationship with the girl, maybe they are always slagging each other.

I find it a bit too far that you cannot joke with a woman at work and it's automatically deemed sexual harassment.

Don't get me wrong, I think Gray and Keys were totally wrong in their comments about Sian Massey & Karren Brady on Saturday, especially as they didn't appear to be joking and were very serious about their views, which is clearly wrong and dated and for which they deserved their reprimand. But for goodness sake, be sensible about it.

Having a joke with someone in work is par for the course and in my past I have worked with women who could give as good as they get.......if something is said in a non-lewd way then it can be fun and innofensive and all depends on the intent behind it.

Either way think it's unfair to judge or label Gray based on a 30 second edited clip!

Then you don't know what sexual harrassment is at all.

Nobody is judging him on the 30 second clip alone. He made the sexist comments to Keys with nobody else around, he made the sexist comments to Burton with nobody else around but the cameraman.

Thrill

murpho999 wrote: »

Either way think it's unfair to judge or label Gray based on a 30 second edited clip!

Sky did, and they have access to the whole recording.

Ickle Magoo

In saying that, the lack of people coming forward to defend Gray &/or Keys, including those who are in said clips and so could put to bed once and for all if they were just harmless banter with a beloved jokey colleague are rather conspicuous by their absence...perhaps the deafening silence tells its own story?

invinciblePRSTV

Richard Keys wrote: »

You could go round there any night and find Redknapp hanging out of the back of it

I'm laughing.

orourkeda wrote: »

I'm glad the microphones were off when I was **** in the bog this morning.

Why do you have microphones in your bathroom?:pac:

niallo27

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

In saying that, the lack of people coming forward to defend Gray &/or Keys, including those who are in said clips and so could put to bed once and for all if they were just harmless banter with a beloved jokey colleague are rather conspicuous by their absence...perhaps the deafening silence tells its own story?

Well they can hardly come out and say the comments were harmless can they, they would lose their jobs as well.

K-9

FireballPitcher wrote: »

Then you don't know what sexual harrassment is at all.

Nobody is judging him on the 30 second clip alone. He made the sexist comments to Keys with nobody else around, he made the sexist comments to Burton with nobody else around but the cameraman.

Keyes was there in the Burton Clip, plus the crew as they were about to go live.

Ah come on, the "will you help with this love" type jokes are old now.

Then again, as I said earlier, people still find Roy Chubby Brown funny.

cantgetright

niallo27 wrote: »

we dont know what happened before or after

We dont.. But the look on her face IMO is like she heard it all before and just couldnt be arsed.

MrStuffins

niallo27 wrote: »

Well they can hardly come out and say the comments were harmless can they, they would lose their jobs as well.

The point is, whenever things like this happen, collegues tend to come out and say "They were out of order, but they're normally like that".

There was a flood of support after Big Ron said what he said. People were saying "He was completely wrong in what he said, but normally............."

I've yet to hear anyone say anything of the sort about these two.

Chucky the tree

niallo27 wrote: »

Well they can hardly come out and say the comments were harmless can they, they would lose their jobs as well.

No they wouldn't, and if they did they'd have an excellent unfair dismissal case.

niallo27

Chucky the tree wrote: »

No they wouldn't, and if they did they'd have an excellent unfair dismissal case.

So you think it would be ok for redknapp and gullit to come out and say these comments are harmless, without any repercussions

Ickle Magoo

niallo27 wrote: »

Well they can hardly come out and say the comments were harmless can they, they would lose their jobs as well.

Why? There's absolutely no reason why people can't jump to the defence of either man or make a statement regarding their lack of offence and great fondness for the presenters...it's telling that they haven't.

niallo27

MrStuffins wrote: »

The point is, whenever things like this happen, collegues tend to come out and say "They were out of order, but they're normally like that".

There was a flood of support after Big Ron said what he said. People were saying "He was completely wrong in what he said, but normally............."

I've yet to hear anyone say anything of the sort about these two.

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Why? There's absolutely no reason why people can't jump to the defence of either man or make a statement regarding their lack of offence and great fondness for the presenters...it's telling that they haven't.

Well he was only sacked tonight, so we'll see in the next few days

Exclamation Marc

Someone could easily come out and say

"these comments are a shock to me as having worked with Andy/Richard for x amount of years, I've never heard him talk like this as he's always treated me and female collegeaues with huge respect and never made disparaging comments like this"

Easy, and that wouldnt harm whoever would say this' career or job.

K-9

MrStuffins wrote: »

There was a flood of support after Big Ron said what he said. People were saying "He was completely wrong in what he said, but normally............."

Good point.

I'd say it wasn't just sexism. The legs up on the table thing just makes him look a twat.

It's David Brent and Finchy type stuff.

The reason its funny is its a send up of outdated attitudes.

He looks like somebody trying too hard to fit in with ex footballers.

DOC09UNAM

MrStuffins wrote: »

Who cares? You're talking rubbish!

No Sky Sports ads make it ok for Andy Gray to ask Charlotte Jackson to touch his dick, don't you get it? Is this not clear to you?

Dude he never asked charlotte jackson to touch his dick, why do you keep bringing it up.

MrStuffins

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

Dude he never asked charlotte jackson to touch his dick, why do you keep bringing it up.

He didnt directly ask her that no, but anyone with half a brain knows that's what he was alluding to.

steelcityblues

Given the recent NOTW allegations Gray made, I wouldn't be surprised if Murdoch himself plotted the stitch up.

The same guy who owns a newspaper that shows a twenty something year old woman with big boobies on Page 3 everyday.

Corporate double standards at work I think.

The Sparrow

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Why? There's absolutely no reason why people can't jump to the defence of either man or make a statement regarding their lack of offence and great fondness for the presenters...it's telling that they haven't.

Well it has only just happened. Victoria Derbyshire from BBC Radio 5 Live tweeted that:

“Worked with Andy during 2002 World Cup, he was charming, respectful, hard working and a good laugh.”

K-9

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

Dude he never asked charlotte jackson to touch his dick, why do you keep bringing it up.

Why do you think he asked her to tuck in his shirt?

DOC09UNAM

MrStuffins wrote: »

He didnt directly ask her that no, but anyone with half a brain knows that's what he was alluding to.

You think him asking her to tuck in his shirt, is him asking her to touch his dick?

I just don't see it.

Ickle Magoo

How is it double standards? The page three girls are employed to be page three girls - again, how does it follow that because some women chose a job that involves nudity that sexual innuendo or sexism aimed at any and all women in that company is suddenly okay?

Yeah, he was hiding behind that piece of the set and sniggering because he was implying she should tuck in his shirt....jesus wept.

Columbia

Is it that surprising? Here they are 12 years ago laughing their asses off at women's football, the scumbags.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ienZj9onV0Q

It is pretty hilarious though, I especially like the goalkeeper at about the 54 second mark.

In protest at Gray's sacking, I'm going to continue streaming games.

murpho999

I have found evidence on a new person.


I demand that Ian Holloway is sacked!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgHcZqIfhcA

niallo27

K-9 wrote: »

Why do you think he asked her to tuck in his shirt?

It was a joke though, he didnt really expect her to do it, he didnt wave his dick at her and shout grab that will ya

Ickle Magoo

niallo27 wrote: »

It was a joke though, he didnt really expect her to do it, he didnt wave his dick at her and shout grab that will ya

So if you shout "Go home darky" at that coloured chap that works in your office cos you're joking and you don't expect him to actually go home, it's completely appropriate and not at all going to earn you a disciplinary hearing? Uh huh.

DOC09UNAM

K-9 wrote: »

Why do you think he asked her to tuck in his shirt?

He wasn't being serious?

A joke?

All of the above?

K-9

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

He wasn't being serious?

A joke?

All of the above?

A joke about what?

niallo27

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

So if you shout "Go home darky" at that coloured chap that works in your office cos you're joking and you don't expect him to actually go home, it's completely appropriate and not at all going to earn you a disciplinary hearing? Uh huh.

It depends if he took offense at it or not, he probably would, are you male or female if you mind me asking

steelcityblues

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

How is it double standards? The page three girls are employed to be page three girls - again, how does it follow that because some women chose a job that involves nudity that sexual innuendo or sexism aimed at any and all women in that company is suddenly okay?

Yeah, he was hiding behind that piece of the set and sniggering because he was implying she should tuck in his shirt....jesus wept.

It is double standards, because i'm pretty sure Andy Gray has been saying this stuff off air for years, but yet why sack him now after 19 years with the organistion? They knew the guy was 'box office' so that's why he stayed on for many years.

The close timing between this and his threat to bring a case against the NOTW is blatantly obvious.

Keys maybe holding onto his job while Gray walks the plank is not logical at all either.

Andy Gray's obviously got some women problems, but you must wonder why is he only losing his job now?

murpho999

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

So if you shout "Go home darky" at that coloured chap that works in your office cos you're joking and you don't expect him to actually go home, it's completely appropriate and not at all going to earn you a disciplinary hearing? Uh huh.

You're comparing apples with oranges there.

Calling someone 'Darky' is blatantly racist and derogatory. Gray didn't call her anything in that clip but her name.

This thread reminds me of the reaction at the time of Cowen's "Drunken Radio Interview".....lots of people getting on their high horse and over-reacting.

If he had sexually harassed the girl last month, why wasn't he disciplined then? Did she complain at the time?

How come despite it being Sky's own recordings that they have only found this evidence in the last 2 days?

Bodhisopha

steelcityblues wrote: »

It is double standards, because i'm pretty sure Andy Gray has been saying this stuff off air for years, but yet why sack him now after 19 years with the organistion? They knew the guy was 'box office' so that's why he stayed on for many years.

The close timing between this and his threat to bring a case against the NOTW is blatantly obvious.

Keys maybe holding onto his job while Gray walks the plank is not logical at all either.

Andy Gray's obviously got some women problems, but you must wonder why is he only losing his job now?

Why now? Because it's public now.

KeithAFC

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

So if you shout "Go home darky" at that coloured chap that works in your office cos you're joking and you don't expect him to actually go home, it's completely appropriate and not at all going to earn you a disciplinary hearing? Uh huh.

Race is a bit different.

TimeToShine

I've always wanted Andy Gray sacked, but not like this. The fact that he gets to leave on his own terms rather than having his contract terminated for being a fúcking awful pundit disappoints me. All he and Keys were doing is having a bloody laugh, I'm 100% sure those of you who watched the match with another lad or group of lads commented about the female linesman in some way shape or form, but to sack Andy for saying "she's a woman, she doesn't know the offside rule" is absurd. He should've been sacked the proper way, due to public demand because no one wants to see him spewing his drivel on live TV.

dfx-

So Gray will join Messi in not being able do it on a Wednesday night in Stoke.

darragh16

KeithAFC wrote: »

Race is a bit different.

A but its not. Its all about the equality like. Black/White, Man/Woman etc etc.

Ickle Magoo

steelcityblues wrote: »

It is double standards, because i'm pretty sure Andy Gray has been saying this stuff off air for years, but yet why sack him now after 19 years with the organistion? They knew the guy was 'box office' so that's why he stayed on for many years.

The close timing between this and his threat to bring a case against the NOTW is blatantly obvious.

Keys maybe holding onto his job while Gray walks the plank is not logical at all either.

Andy Gray's obviously got some women problems, but you must wonder why is he only losing his job now?

Perhaps because he's more cave man than box office these days? Times are changing, what's acceptable to say and do is also changing and unfortunately some are unable or unwilling to change with it.

I've already stated I think it's mighty suspicious of the volume of footage that has been leaked in the manner it has but that's not to say there aren't plenty of people in the production team, in the editing suite, in the camera crew, sound crew, lighting, etc, who are fed up listening to their out-dated Jim Davidsonesque repartee - never mind those who look thoroughly uncomfortable on camera having to work with them.

It's completely idiotic in this day and age to sit in front of cameras in a media studio and make such blatantly offensive statements and not expect something to leak out eventually. Take away the motivation for the leaks and you still have a couple of mightily paid employees making highly inappropriate and unprofessional comments and gestures and playing the leading role in orchestrating their own down-fall.

K-9

TimeToShine wrote: »

I've always wanted Andy Gray sacked, but not like this. The fact that he gets to leave on his own terms rather than having his contract terminated for being a fúcking awful pundit disappoints me. All he and Keys were doing is having a bloody laugh, I'm 100% sure those of you who watched the match with another lad or group of lads commented about the female linesman in some way shape or form, but to sack Andy for saying "she's a woman, she doesn't know the offside rule" is absurd. He should've been sacked the proper way, due to public demand because no one wants to see him spewing his drivel on live TV.

He wouldn't have the balls (sorry) to say it live on air, if he believes it that much.

As for comments in the pub, I'm sure some said "she's hot", plenty said that on the match thread here. That isn't the issue, female posters comment on a handsome player and good luck to them.

If somebody thinks a woman doesn't know the offside rule simply because they are women, they are retards, regardless of sex or pub they are in.

Ickle Magoo

KeithAFC wrote: »

Race is a bit different.

Not according to equality legislation...

Exclamation Marc

steelcityblues wrote: »

It is double standards, because i'm pretty sure Andy Gray has been saying this stuff off air for years, but yet why sack him now after 19 years with the organistion? They knew the guy was 'box office' so that's why he stayed on for many years.

Very very simple. He has now brought the station into disrepute. Say whatever the hell you like and if you never get caught, fair play.

The station had on their books someone who has been proven albeit by a couple of clips to be very sexist and derogatory toward women. Sky do not want to be associated with that. When it was going on for 20 years, he was never found out to be saying it, but when its found out you do say it and it goes public and your employer does nothing about it, it looks bad on your employer.

If I employ someone who goes around saying racist remarks but its not a publicly known fact, then thats fine because it will never reflect back on me.

If I employ someone who is known to be racist and has been racist in recordings now made public, I am the employer who employs a racist and does nothing about it, which is awful PR. If only one situation arises, a warning will do, if many clips arise, its a big problem.

Its really not hard to grasp why Sky got rid of him.