Andy Gray & Richard Keys in hot "sexist" water .

KeithAFC

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Not according to equality legislation...

If you believe that, you will believe anything. Equality does not exist in this world.

Exclamation Marc

KeithAFC wrote: »

If you believe that, you will believe anything. Equality does not exist in this world.

If you believe that???

It's in writing. It's a well established fact in employment law.

niallo27

Has anyone on here not had some sort of sexual innuendo in their workplace, women are far worse than men for it in my experience

steelcityblues

FireballPitcher wrote: »

Very very simple. He has now brought the station into disrepute. Say whatever the hell you like and if you never get caught, fair play.

The station had on their books someone who has been proven albeit by a couple of clips to be very sexist and derogatory toward women. Sky do not want to be associated with that. When it was going on for 20 years, he was never found out to be saying it, but when its found out you do say it and it goes public and your employer does nothing about it, it looks bad on your employer.

If I employ someone who goes around saying racist remarks but its not a publicly known fact, then thats fine because it will never reflect back on me.

If I employ someone who is known to be racist and has been racist in recordings now made public, I am the employer who employs a racist and does nothing about it, which is awful PR. If only one situation arises, a warning will do, if many clips arise, its a big problem.

Its really not hard to grasp why Sky got rid of him.

But if there is evidence from other workers that Gray was saying this stuff years ago, then you have to admit SKY are just as much to blame.

When clips arise is not really the point here.

This is the same station after all who apply a disproportionate amount of twentysomething female sports newsreaders. Ever think why?

murpho999

FireballPitcher wrote: »

If you believe that???

It's in writing. It's a well established fact in employment law.

That may be so but I think it's a very 'Gray' area!:D

Exclamation Marc

niallo27 wrote: »

Has anyone on here not had some sort of sexual innuendo in their workplace, women are far worse than men for it in my experience

That means shag all. If men feel uncomfortable they're more than entitled and able to make a complaint.

KeithAFC

FireballPitcher wrote: »

If you believe that???

It's in writing. It's a well established fact in employment law.

Words are one thing, actions are another. I could name so many things in the world which lacks equality and things which aren't fair.

Exclamation Marc

steelcityblues wrote: »

But if there is evidence from other workers that Gray was saying this stuff years ago, then you have to admit SKY are just as much to blame.

When clips arise is not really the point here.

This is the same station after all who apply a disproportionate amount of twentysomething female sports newsreaders. Ever think why?

When clips arise is the point here....

People can say for years on end that I'm this, that and the other.

When a clip comes out and PROVES is, it's a different matter. You can hardly expect Sky to react on hear'say??

And who cares if Sky have twentysomething female newsreaders, what has that got to do with anything?

niallo27

FireballPitcher wrote: »

That means shag all. If men feel uncomfortable they're more than entitled and able to make a complaint.

And do you think that would happen, do you think a man would complain a women for sexual harassment

eagle eye

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

So if you shout "Go home darky" at that coloured chap that works in your office cos you're joking and you don't expect him to actually go home, it's completely appropriate and not at all going to earn you a disciplinary hearing? Uh huh.

If somebody called you 'brighty' are you going to take that as racism?

Darky isn't racist in my book. Thats just suggesting that somebody has dark skin. Whats wrong with that?

Exclamation Marc

KeithAFC wrote: »

Words are one thing, actions are another. I could name so many things in the world which lacks equality and things which aren't fair.

So could I, whats your point?

In employment law, equality is a huge issue, whether its down to gender, race, creed, religion etc.

It doesn't matter if the world is inequal and not fair in other aspects.

K-9

KeithAFC wrote: »

If you believe that, you will believe anything. Equality does not exist in this world.

Nope, it never will. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be pointed out and addressed.

To use the cliched example, black players faced huge prejudice at first, I'm sure we all the prejudices and cliches thrown at them.

Equality didn't exist then, it doesn't now either. One thing is for sure, ignoring racism made no difference to society, addressing it did, black players are now accepted with no problems to such a stage that when commenting on a player, race doesn't come into it. Nobody thinks that player is black therefor.................people just him on how good a footballer he is. If he's crap he'll get the same abuse as a white player.

Female officials will become more and more part of the game. In 20 years time people will be moaning about what that linesman got wrong and the fact she was a woman wont even enter their minds. They'll look back and point and laugh at Grey when the next issue of discrimination comes up. the next one might be gay players.

DOC09UNAM

eagle eye wrote: »

If somebody called you 'brighty' are you going to take that as racism?

Darky isn't racist in my book. Thats just suggesting that somebody has dark skin. Whats wrong with that?

Jesus christ.

Darky is fairly racist tbh.

I'm not even going to get into it further, because I'll be banned for using slurs.

Exclamation Marc

niallo27 wrote: »

And do you think that would happen, do you think a man would complain a women for sexual harassment

Yes, and many men have. It happens quite a lot actually.

Ickle Magoo

KeithAFC wrote: »

If you believe that, you will believe anything. Equality does not exist in this world.

It's not a question of belief or believing that equality exists, equality legislation exists and it sees no difference between racism and sexism was the point I was making. In terms of professional bloopers they might as well have come out with something racist or homophobic, the effect in terms of Sky having no option but distance themselves from those involved would be the same. You may feel personally that being racist is a greater "crime" than being sexist - that's not really relevant, as soon as you publicly cross the line in terms of unprofessional or inappropriate behaviours which are actually legislated against, then you can't complain when your head gets handed to you in a bucket. It's not rocket science, no?

K-9

niallo27 wrote: »

And do you think that would happen, do you think a man would complain a women for sexual harassment

Why not?

20 years ago a a man saying he was being physicaly abused by a woman would have been laughed at, by both men and women. Now it's less and less of a joke and treated seriously.

niallo27

FireballPitcher wrote: »

Yes, and many men have. It happens quite a lot actually.

Really it would never happen in any place i have worked, sexual innuendo is just more of a norm in my line of work, i have always worked in factories and such

Ickle Magoo

eagle eye wrote: »

If somebody called you 'brighty' are you going to take that as racism?

That depends, is it some ignoramus passing in the street? No. If it's one of my colleagues then damn right I'd have something to say about it.

eagle eye wrote: »

Darky isn't racist in my book. Thats just suggesting that somebody has dark skin. Whats wrong with that?

Why doesn't that surprise me.

niallo27

K-9 wrote: »

Why not?

20 years ago a a man saying he was being physicaly abused by a woman would have been laughed at, by both men and women. Now it's less and less of a joke and treated seriously.

Im not talking about physical abuse though, im more talking about sexual innuendo and such

MisterAnarchy

This whole issue is a farce .
The antics of the anonymous poster on Youtube is far more interesting ,sinister and shocking than anything to come out of Gray's or Keys mouth.
That some people connected with football are louts is hardly a shocker, is it?
The average footballer has a brain the size of a pea .

I dont have much time for Andy Gray or Keys,they are long in the tooth,smug,arrogant and bombastic.
I wont miss them but the manner of their trial by media is disturbing.

There are serious double standards at work. Look at all the female chat show/lifestyle shows on tv now where they ridicule men and have smutty humour.
If you are seen as a member of the "oppressive" straight white male group you are much more likely to be scrutinised and come under politically motivated attack.

The world has gone PC mad .
The British media are yet again showing the world why they are the lowest of the low.
Turning a molehill into a mountain,a storm in a teacup.
It reminds me of the Simpsons episode where Homer is stitched up for sexual harrassment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvwnwBbX70k&NR=1

Exclamation Marc

niallo27 wrote: »

Really it would never happen in any place i have worked, sexual innuendo is just more of a norm in my line of work, i have always worked in factories and such

Yes it happens a lot. Just because people don't go shouting from the rooftops that its happened to them doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

eagle eye wrote: »

Darky isn't racist in my book. Thats just suggesting that somebody has dark skin. Whats wrong with that?

Are you black? Because if you're white, then whats racist to you doesn't really matter. If you are black and find it not offensive, then fine. But if you're white you can't really judge how offended someone else would be. If I go around using the "N" word towards black people, the fact that I don't find it offensive really means shag all.

Ickle Magoo

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

This whole issue is a farce .
The antics of the anonymous poster on Youtube is far more interesting ,sinister and shocking than anything to come out of Gray's or Keys mouth.
That some people connected with football are louts is hardly a shocker, is it?
The average footballer has a brain the size of a pea .

I dont have much time for Andy Gray or Keys,they are long in the tooth,smug,arrogant and bombastic.
I wont miss them but the manner of their trial by media is disturbing.

There are serious double standards at work. Look at all the female chat show/lifestyle shows on tv now where they ridicule men and have smutty humour.
If you are seen as a member of the "oppressive" straight white male group you are much more likely to be scrutinised and come under politically motivated attack.

The world has gone PC mad .
The British media are yet again showing the world why they are the lowest of the low.
Turning a molehill into a mountain,a storm in a teacup.
It reminds me of the Simpsons episode where Homer is stitched up for sexual harrassment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvwnwBbX70k&NR=1

Good god, it's like ground-hog day in here. :eek:

Yes, yes, because a pack of harpies that should never be allowed on television come out with vacuous statements about men, Sky presenters should be allowed to make any comments they like about and to women - of course, I can see the logic...errrr.

murpho999

eagle eye wrote: »

If somebody called you 'brighty' are you going to take that as racism?

Darky isn't racist in my book. Thats just suggesting that somebody has dark skin. Whats wrong with that?

Unbeliveable post.

Never heard of term 'brighty' as reference to a white person.

'Darky' is a racist term in any book, no exceptions unless your book is the "KKK Member's Annual"

K-9

niallo27 wrote: »

Im not talking about physical abuse though, im more talking about sexual innuendo and such

Well if men want to make an issue of it they can. Just like physical abuse many men and women will be prepared to back them.

The law isn't sexist as regard sexual discrimination, if you feel sexually harassed, report it, same goes for any man.

Maybe your colleagues would scoff at you for it? Well that's what laws are for, to change societys attitudes, like racism and that physical abuse only affects women.

eagle eye

FireballPitcher wrote: »

Are you black? Because if you're white, then whats racist to you doesn't really matter. If you are black and find it not offensive, then fine. But if you're white you can't really judge how offended someone else would be. If I go around using the "N" word towards black people, the fact that I don't find it offensive really means shag all.

No I'm not black, but one of my best friends is and I know she wouldn't consider that racist at all.

KeithAFC

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

It's not a question of belief or believing that equality exists, equality legislation exists and it sees no difference between racism and sexism was the point I was making. In terms of professional bloopers they might as well have come out with something racist or homophobic, the effect in terms of Sky having no option but distance themselves from those involved would be the same. You may feel personally that being racist is a greater "crime" than being sexist - that's not really relevant, as soon as you publicly cross the line in terms of unprofessional or inappropriate behaviours which are actually legislated against, then you can't complain when your head gets handed to you in a bucket. It's not rocket science, no?

I ain't complaining against it. Don't get me wrong. All im saying is people should explain what they mean by equality.

Exclamation Marc

eagle eye wrote: »

No I'm not black, but one of my best friends is and I know she wouldn't consider that racist at all.

I have a black friend who you could literally be vile towards and he'd laugh it off, that doesn't make it not racist.

It's baffling how you think darky isn't racist.

murpho999

K-9 wrote: »

Well if men want to make an issue of it they can. Just like physical abuse many men and women will be prepared to back them.

The law isn't sexist as regard sexual discrimination, if you feel sexually harassed, report it, same goes for any man.

Maybe your colleagues would scoff at you for it? Well that's what laws are for, to change societys attitudes, like racism and that physical abuse only affects women.

Jaysis, I'd say you're a barrel of laughs at work....couldn't crack a joke and with any sexual implication at all......hate to live in the world that you want!

DOC09UNAM

eagle eye wrote: »

No I'm not black, but one of my best friends is and I know she wouldn't consider that racist at all.

I call my black friend chocolate bear, but I'm sure some black people would find it racist.

I also call him a ni&&er in public as he thinks the reactions from people is hilarious.

Is it racist, yes, is it acceptable in a certain context, yes, but still racist.

OPENROAD

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

I call my black friend chocolate bear, but I'm sure some black people would find it racist.

I also call him a ni&&er in public as he thinks the reactions from people is hilarious.

Is it racist, yes, is it acceptable in a certain context, yes, but still racist.

Seriously?

K-9

murpho999 wrote: »

Jaysis, I'd say you're a barrel of laughs at work....couldn't crack a joke and with any sexual implication at all......hate to live in the world that you want!

Yeah, that's exactly what I said! :rolleyes: You obviously know the world I want from a 3/4 line post on an internet board.

What's an ok sexual implication in your book?

Exclamation Marc

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

I call my black friend chocolate bear, but I'm sure some black people would find it racist.

I also call him a ni&&er in public as he thinks the reactions from people is hilarious.

Is it racist, yes, is it acceptable in a certain context, yes, but still racist.

If a black person overheard you in public and was seriously offended by it and knocked your lights out, I doubt it'd be that hilarious. Because it does happen.

niallo27

Should this lot be sacked as well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEzcOit5LZQ

niallo27

im sorry now but if you play this slowly and pause it on 4 seconds you can clearly see she is laughing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCBxW-nUPus

MisterAnarchy

niallo27 wrote: »

im sorry now but if you play this slowly and pause it on 4 seconds you can clearly see she is laughing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCBxW-nUPus

Well spotted.

Ickle Magoo

Perhaps there could be general cull of crap daytime tv that lots of people who never watch get very offended over and out-dated presenters that are only sack-ably offensive when publicly ousted?

DOC09UNAM

FireballPitcher wrote: »

If a black person overheard you in public and was seriously offended by it and knocked your lights out, I doubt it'd be that hilarious. Because it does happen.

I know, I don't even like saying it because I hate the word, but he finds it hilarious.

OPENROAD wrote: »

Seriously?

Yes, unfortunately.

eagle eye

FireballPitcher wrote: »

I have a black friend who you could literally be vile towards and he'd laugh it off, that doesn't make it not racist.

It's baffling how you think darky isn't racist.

Suggesting that somebody has a dark complexion is not racist. Suggesting that somebody with a different skin colour is not your equal is racist.

Exclamation Marc

eagle eye wrote: »

Suggesting that somebody has a dark complexion is not racist. Suggesting that somebody with a different skin colour is not your equal is racist.

"You have a dark complexion" - Not racist

"Oi, blacky" - Racist. It's a slur.

K-9

Jaysus, it's half second shot of her.

Remember people were saying the whole thing could be taken out of context? So could a half second video clip out of focus.

MisterAnarchy

niallo27 wrote: »

Should this lot be sacked as well

Men are from Mars ,Women are from Venus.
Men are more laid back and would laugh that Loose Women clip off as a joke but women tend to view things ,ahem ...differently.

Underground

I'd love to see what would happen if the roles were reversed in that ad on Loose Women and the women were made out to be useless. Quite a furore I'd imagine

Degag

Columbia wrote: »

Is it that surprising? Here they are 12 years ago laughing their asses off at women's football, the scumbags.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ienZj9onV0Q

It is pretty hilarious though, I especially like the goalkeeper at about the 54 second mark.

In protest at Gray's sacking, I'm going to continue streaming games.

OPENROAD

eagle eye wrote: »

Suggesting that somebody has a dark complexion is not racist. Suggesting that somebody with a different skin colour is not your equal is racist.

I'd be offended, would certainly make me feel a bit crap.

K-9

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Perhaps there could be general cull of crap daytime tv that lots of people who never watch get very offended over and out-dated presenters that are only sack-ably offensive when publicly ousted?

It is bad, funny in a cringe worthy way.

As reagrds loose women, I'm not wasting 6 minutes watching the rest of it. Can be very sexist, trivial nonsense.

Jesus Wept

niallo27 wrote: »

Should this lot be sacked as well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEzcOit5LZQ

I want my 4 mins 48 seconds back.

niallo27 wrote: »

im sorry now but if you play this slowly and pause it on 4 seconds you can clearly see she is laughing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCBxW-nUPus

It really matters not as to how she reacts.
Also, whether she is laughing because she thinks it is great or because she feels she is meant to because he is being 'hilarious!', is impossible to tell.

Thrill

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgN4NrlXQEQ

niallo27

Well it definitely shows she laughed it off

SantryRed

niallo27 wrote: »

im sorry now but if you play this slowly and pause it on 4 seconds you can clearly see she is laughing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCBxW-nUPus

Eh no. If you look even more closely. She is laughing and as she turns to acknowledge him she sees what he is doing and her face quickly changes.

SlipperyPeople