Andy Gray & Richard Keys in hot "sexist" water .

K-9

niallo27 wrote: »

Well it definitely shows she laughed it off

[IMG][/img]http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/1397/pic20110126.jpg

Is that your proof that she seen it as funny?

Underground

That was probably a really uncomfortable " I don't know what else to do but laugh awkwardly" laugh.

niallo27

K-9 wrote: »

Is that your proof that she seen it as funny?

Well it throws doubt on the theory she was deeply offended by the comments

Ickle Magoo

niallo27 wrote: »

Well it definitely shows she laughed it off

She turned to him smiling as he was calling her name and as soon as she saw what he was doing the smile vanished and she turned away - not sure what clip you are watching...

niallo27

SantryRed wrote: »

Eh no. If you look even more closely. She is laughing and as she turns to acknowledge him she sees what he is doing and her face quickly changes.

Why would she laugh at someone asking her to fix my microphone

niallo27

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

She turned to him smiling as he was calling her name and as soon as she saw what he was doing the smile vanished and she turned away - not sure what clip you are watching...

She was still smiling as she went out off shot, so you cant be sure her smile disappeared straight away

Ickle Magoo

Sorry, where's this laugh? It's a common behaviour to turn to someone calling your name with a smile, I don't think it's any great evidence either way...presumably if she thinks Gray is a great fella, at some point she'll come out and say so.

niallo27 wrote: »

She was still smiling as she went out off shot, so you cant be sure her smile disappeared straight away

There wasn't a hint of a smile on her face when it's next on screen, not even a remnant of a laugh - and Gray isn't looking at her and laughing with her, he's looking at someone else.

K-9

niallo27 wrote: »

Why would she laugh at someone asking her to fix my microphone

Well there's another poster on this thread wondering why a poster assumed he was referring to his dick.

They are just being a WUM, but there you are.

KeithAFC

Should get on the ATS forum and see what their theories are and who is behind this lynching.

Jesus Wept

Murdock because Gray is sueing News of the World.

Gray deserves it though because he is a special kind of tool.

Exclamation Marc

niallo27 wrote: »

Well it throws doubt on the theory she was deeply offended by the comments

No it doesn't. It's like calling a black person a "n". Just because the person you're saying it to either ignores it or doesn't react to it, or even laughs it off, doesn't mean that its not offensive.

niallo27

K-9 wrote: »

Well there's another poster on this thread wondering why a poster assumed he was referring to his dick.

They are just being a WUM, but there you are.

Are you saying there is no chance she though what gray was doing was funny and harmless from watching that clip

K-9

KeithAFC wrote: »

Should get on the ATS forum and see what their theories are and who is behind this lynching.

It is Murdock. Pure sleaze.

If the story was about standards the above video would have been leaked last month, not stored up to be used at a convenient time.

It's British tabloids though so hardly a surprise.

Le King

niallo27 wrote: »

Are you saying there is no chance she though what gray was doing was funny and harmless from watching that clip

TBF Charlotte didn't seem too impressed by it. Everybody has their banter and stuff like that but when you're in the media eye it's bang out of order to be making comments like that unless you're Frankie Boyle.

niallo27

FireballPitcher wrote: »

No it doesn't. It's like calling a black person a "n". Just because the person you're saying it to either ignores it or doesn't react to it, or even laughs it off, doesn't mean that its not offensive.

Yes but i said she might not have being offended, i never said it wasnt offensive, they were people on here saying she was disgusted and embarrassed and this throws that into doubt

niallo27

Le King wrote: »

TBF Charlotte didn't seem too impressed by it. Everybody has their banter and stuff like that but when you're in the media eye it's bang out of order to be making comments like that unless you're Frankie Boyle.

Well there is no doubting he is a knob of the highest order, i was just saying we cant be sure was she offended by it or not or is it just usual banter between them

Ickle Magoo

niallo27 wrote: »

She was still smiling as she went out off shot, so you cant be sure her smile disappeared straight away

Hmmmm....wonder if this is a before or after...

K-9

niallo27 wrote: »

Are you saying there is no chance she though what gray was doing was funny and harmless from watching that clip

Of course I can't say that, we don't have her statements. You also can't say she thought it was funny and harmless with it either.

What we do know is somebody thought it worthy of publishing, went to that bother, for a 13 second clip from December.

We also know he has a problem with female linesmen, so...................

Thrill

niallo27 wrote: »

Yes but i said she might not have being offended, i never said it wasnt offensive, they were people on here saying she was disgusted and embarrassed and this throws that into doubt

I dont think it matters if she found it offensive or not. Her employer, SKY, has deemed his behavior as unacceptable and offensive.

niallo27

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Hmmmm....wonder if this is a before or after...

Well she is talking to someone there if you watch the clip probably the producer or someone which is why she has a serious face on

KeithAFC

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Hmmmm....wonder if this is a before or after...

She was preparing to go on air though. Same with Andy, look at his smile. Ah jesus, its turning into an episode of Big Brother. Lets vote Keys out!

niallo27

Thrill wrote: »

I dont think it matters if she found it offensive or not. Her employer, SKY, has deemed his behavior as unacceptable and offensive.

I totally agree i was just responding to the people that said she looked disgusted and embarrassed

Ickle Magoo

KeithAFC wrote: »

She was preparing to go on air though. Same with Andy, look at his smile. Ah jesus, its turning into an episode of Big Brother. Lets vote Keys out!

Perhaps - she just doesn't look at ease and comfortably laughing with him...she doesn't make a comment, she doesn't laugh, the only pictures I can find show him still chuckling and her dead-pan. That's not to say she didn't find it all absolutely hysterical and only her professionalism managed to reign in the mirth prior to going on air - but it just doesn't look that way. I'd say all the journo's are dying for a statement so no doubt we'll hear one way or the other.

eagle eye

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Perhaps - she just doesn't look at ease and comfortably laughing with him...she doesn't make a comment, she doesn't laugh, the only pictures I can find show him still chuckling and her dead-pan. That's not to say she didn't find it all absolutely hysterical and only her professionalism managed to reign in the mirth prior to going on air - but it just doesn't look that way. I'd say all the journo's are dying for a statement so no doubt we'll hear one way or the other.

In that shot you just posted there. She is putting a mic on very close to here cleavage. Is is possible that she just got a male to help with it before the shot turns to her? And this leads to Gray acting the maggot and taking it little further?

Edit: If so its just his sense of humour, a little crude but harmless.

niallo27

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Perhaps - she just doesn't look at ease and comfortably laughing with him...she doesn't make a comment, she doesn't laugh, the only pictures I can find show him still chuckling and her dead-pan. That's not to say she didn't find it all absolutely hysterical and only her professionalism managed to reign in the mirth prior to going on air - but it just doesn't look that way. I'd say all the journo's are dying for a statement so no doubt we'll hear one way or the other.

TBH i know plenty of girls who would laugh a comment like this and give as much back, just because you personally take offense at it doesnt mean other would

Bodhisopha

For what it's worth Sky News said earlier that she was unhappy with the gesture from Gray. They didn't say when she said she was unhappy or whether or not she made a complaint.

My reading of the video was a nervous laughter from her initially, quickly followed by her looking pretty displeased by it.

Ickle Magoo

niallo27 wrote: »

TBH i know plenty of girls who would laugh a comment like this and give as much back, just because you personally take offense at it doesnt mean other would

Who says I personally would? Making it personal is a last gasp argument, tbh. It isn't about what I'd find offensive or what you wouldn't for that matter, nor evoking random anecdotes like that makes your argument any more valid, it's about the terms of Gray and Keys employment regarding their conduct with their colleague and other professionals in the sport - you claimed a still shows she thinks it's hilarious, I disagree that she does - whether I'd find it funny or no is neither here nor there.

niallo27

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Who says I personally would? Making it personal is a last gasp argument, tbh. It isn't about what I'd find offensive or what you wouldn't for that matter, nor evoking random anecdotes like that makes your argument any more valid, it's about the terms of Gray and Keys employment regarding their conduct with their colleague and other professionals in the sport - you claimed a still shows she thinks it's hilarious, I disagree that she does - whether I'd find it funny or no is neither here nor there.

No i said it puts it puts into doubt weather she was offended or not, i didnt mean anything by making it personal as you say, i just though by the way you were posting you found the actions very offensive personally, im not saying what they did was not wrong im just saying i dont think it was that bad, i meant no personal offense to you in my post if it came across that way

Ickle Magoo

I'm not offended in the slightest, tis just my naturally gruff scottish ways.

Degag

KeithAFC wrote: »

Should get on the ATS forum and see what their theories are and who is behind this lynching.

Which forum is this?

KeithAFC

Above Top Secret

Boskowski

I really don't care much WHY he's gone. The important thing is he's gone.

TechnoPool

Columbia wrote: »

Is it that surprising? Here they are 12 years ago laughing their asses off at women's football, the scumbags.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ienZj9onV0Q

It is pretty hilarious though, I especially like the goalkeeper at about the 54 second mark.

In protest at Gray's sacking, I'm going to continue streaming games.

in fairness ya would see a better standard down st.annes on a sunday morning:D

Mr.Crinklewood

Should get Jonathan Ross and Russell Brand to replace them.

Leiva

Jeez someone is really out to get these 2.

Here's Keys Video Mark;2
Bit cryptic but could be his undoing .

allybhoy

Ok I think there are a couple of arguments and opinions getting thrown about here which is confusing the thread. Im not going to go into the whole debate as to whether the telling clip of gray and zipgate was Gray openly sexually harrassing a colleague and justifies him loosing his job, as its impossible to tell from a 30 second clip as to what happened directly before, and directly afterwards and can quite quite easily be taken out of context. Freezing videos at second intervals to see peoples expressions is irrelevant.

For my two cents, firstly, im happy Gray is gone, I think he's an awful pundit, and also from what ive read about his bed hopping antics over the last few years with his mates missus and stuff, he sounds like a real slimey piece of work. And in all probability doesnt seem like the type of person who deserves\deserved to be earning 1.7million a yr, but then again people on that type of salary rarely are.

Secondly..however there is a more than a fair whiff of conspiracy about this whole thing in fairness. Its plainly obvious to me that there was a witchhunt in sky for Gray. I was watching this coverage unfold on Sky News yesterday morning and I was amazed at how they were handling it, it was almost as though it was a scoop on another station, something akin to Ross and Brand on bbc. They seemed to be washing their own affairs out in the public and it was clear to me that they had a hidden agenda and I honestly knew yesterday morning that one or both of them would be fired. They were making a storm in their own teacup and I could not see how as an organisation this was helping them in anyway shape or form, why were they simply not brushing this under the carpet. It was their main breaking news headline at 8am...it didnt make sense, that was until I read about the pending phone tapping case involving Gray and Murdoch and suddenly all became clear.

Ive studied how events have unfolded and tried to get a picture on things and if im wrong anywhere let me know. So the first anyone knows about this is when a reporter gets an annonomous tip off from a sky sports staff member about the misogynistic remarks made by Gray and Keys at the wolves\pool game and magically ends up with a copy of the footage from youtube, which was quickly uploaded for roughly half an hour, and then the account with which it was uploaded with is closed. Then mysteriously several more historical clips of the two in question get uploaded to youtube by "ghost" accounts which are removed minutes later and have since been copied by many people. Try and think, how were these leaked, and why.

Were they released perhaps as has been suggested by disgruntled SSP production team members who had enough of the pair or by shady senior exectives with an alterior motive. I think in all probability the latter. Because if they were the former, then these two must have a serious history of pissn off their colleagues. You also have to say why are zipgate and smashgate leaked now, and not when they happened. What were these disgruntled staff members holding onto these clips in private secretly praying for the day they could leak them? Why leak them now?

Surely SSP have strict confidentiality agreements with all their employees and so the idea that somebody run the risk of loosing their job in this day and age to leak a 30 second clip of two of the most "respected" pundits in the game having the same conversation that two auld boys in the pub watching the match on telly would have to me seems ridicolous. That would want to be one heck of a grudge, the risk vs reward factor is just not there, if it turns out that Jamie Redknapp or Jeff Stelling leaked them, then fine, but apart from that I just cant see it myself.

Are we to believe that Sky are taking the moral highground here and are the shining light in womens equality. Really?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNMBfFosW04

So for me it boils down to this.

Should Gray and Keys have been sacked for having off air private discussions which were undoubtedly mysoginstic?
Probably not, worst things are said in offices everyday of the week, especially PWC! They should have been suspended and forced to apologise to the lineswoman in question. One of them was, one of them wasnt.

Should Gray have been sacked or at the very least severely reprimanded for ZipperGate?
Possibly so, although out of context its hard to tell. But yes, perhaps he should have.

Should Gray be sacked now for events that happened over a month ago?
Hmm, possibly not. The reason i say that is surely a senior producer working at that time would have seen\heard these comments and should have told him that his behaviour was unacceptable. Afterall, if the same "disgruntled" person who leaked the footage was so outraged, surely he should have complained to his boss at the time, who could have clearly gone back through the archives and decided if he needed to be reprimanded.

Whats the worst crime?
Manipulating the media to get a man fired and shattering his reputation because he has legal proceedings against his boss. Or a man making some petty lude comments. If its the latter than after Surely Keys must go aswell.

everdead.ie

mixednuts wrote: »

Jeez someone is really out to get these 2.

Here's Keys Video Mark;2
Bit cryptic but could be his undoing .

I love the way Souness just ignores him he just keeps on talking to whoever is behind the camera.

everdead.ie

niallo27 wrote: »

TBH i know plenty of girls who would laugh a comment like this and give as much back, just because you personally take offense at it doesnt mean other would

I think in a work situstion like that surrounded by your colleagues you are more likely to take offence imo anyway

DOC09UNAM

FOR HIRE: Pundit, looking for work in Middle East, Iran/Saudi etc, basically anywhere women know their place. All offers to andygray@jobseekers.com

Father Damo

I love the way a group of mostly (probably) male execs at Sky who have never once in their lives made a slightly crude remark about a females attractiveness (or ugliness), and who are completely in truthful agreement that women work just as hard as men (not the lineswoman, I mean in general) have decided to invoke the moral highground here.

jaykay74

Doesn't seem they were much liked by fellow Sky employees.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jan/26/andy-gray-richard-keys-sixist

Wile E. Coyote

It's an absolute joke that he was sacked. He didn't say it on air. It was a private joke/conversation between them that was leaked to the media. Probably by some woman who was there to iron their clothes .

We've all told jokes or laughed at jokes with our friends in private that some sections of society would find inappropriate/sexist/racist. Does this mean we all deserve to be sacked because of it? Some people are just far too sensitive.

Cantona's Collars

jaykay74 wrote: »

Doesn't seem they were much liked by fellow Sky employees.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jan/26/andy-gray-richard-keys-sixist

Read similar claims that Keys is a smarmy individual who is full of his own self importance and treats others at Sky with contempt.
Redknapp is odds on to take over as head pundit-please Lord no,couldn't handle his banal wittering,we need someone who isn't scared to criticise players if they are playing badly,Redknapp want's to be their friend and won't rock the boat or speak his mind,even Souness say's he has to watch what he say's on Sky for fear of offending players or managers.

MrStuffins

eagle eye wrote: »

If somebody called you 'brighty' are you going to take that as racism?

Darky isn't racist in my book. Thats just suggesting that somebody has dark skin. Whats wrong with that?

Oh... my ... God!

In a thread where some utter rubbish has been posted, this post completely takes the biscuit!!!

THis is the first time i've ever used this, but it's well deserved!

AnCapaillMor

jaykay74 wrote: »

Doesn't seem they were much liked by fellow Sky employees.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jan/26/andy-gray-richard-keys-sixist

Knew a guy from another forum who worked there as part of college and he said Keys in particular was very dislikeable, pretty much what zerks said. The worst thing to come from this could be Redknapp getting lead, uugghh. I remember him saying something on gray as well and the women working there but i'll have to dig it up the old post.

Mr. Presentable

OPENROAD wrote: »

I'd be offended, would certainly make me feel a bit crap.

Why? Is there something wrong with having a dark complexion?

lordgoat

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Here's the latest one.
I think it's PC madness. If Charlotte made an official complaint it would be different I suppose, but I don't think she did otherwise it would have been reported I'd imagine?
I really want Keyes gone now though too, I can't stand him. Does anyone have time for the ware-wolf?

From newstalk last night appaently this happened in decenber and AG got a formal warning. If so then he had to go.

Thrill wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvsaG3b9uVY

I wonder who is leaking all these clips?

Rupert i'd say is putting the boot in.

eagle eye wrote: »

If somebody called you 'brighty' are you going to take that as racism?

Darky isn't racist in my book. Thats just suggesting that somebody has dark skin. Whats wrong with that?

So father, i see you're a racist now. (with sexist leanings)

K-9

Hardly a ringing endorsement:

'There's been a culture of bullying and sexism at Sky for a long time' | Matt Scott | Football | The Guardian

patmac

I thought their comments were sexist and totally unacceptable and both should have been sacked and replaced by two birds with big tits.

I know the above was probably posted before.
Anyway I would be giving out a lot about the PC brigade regarding this, but the fact that Andy Gray has been sacked makes it all worthwhile.

lordgoat

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

It's an absolute joke that he was sacked. He didn't say it on air. It was a private joke/conversation between them that was leaked to the media. Probably by some woman who was there to iron their clothes .

We've all told jokes or laughed at jokes with our friends in private that some sections of society would find inappropriate/sexist/racist. Does this mean we all deserve to be sacked because of it? Some people are just far too sensitive.

It wasn't in private. It was in their workplace. It also wasn't a once off.

The BBC have a policy that you get sacked for saying something in the studio (regardless of on or off air) that is inappropriate. I'm for once glad that sky did the right thing.

you also sound like quite a guy. And if you make sexist remarks in the workplace then ya you do deserve to be sacked.