Andy Gray & Richard Keys in hot "sexist" water .

Bodhisopha

SarahBM wrote: »

not if you cook for yourself. now, you see, you are promoting the perception that men cant look after themselves. which I know is not true.
you may cook yourself dinner.

back to the topic. have sky sacked Keyes and Gray yet?
I think Georgie Thompson should get Keyes job. she is way more interesting and perhaps might even be more knowledgeable, since she hasnt been listening to Gray's BS for the last 20 years.

Let's not go overboard...

OPENROAD

Really fascinated how much general media coverage this is getting over here, just goes to prove our fascination with all things in England.

Will be interesting to see how this goes, the fact that it was not done on air may save them.

OPENROAD

Bodhisopha wrote: »

Let's not go overboard...

Agree, Sarah Jane Mee already has proven experience, she has to be top of the list.;)

DH2K9

OPENROAD wrote: »

Really fascinated how much general media coverage this is getting over here, just goes to prove our fascination with all things in England.

Will be interesting to see how this goes, the fact that it was not done on air may save them.

They will probably sack the microphones on/off guy:D

Exclamation Marc

OPENROAD wrote: »

Really fascinated how much general media coverage this is getting over here, just goes to prove our fascination with all things in England.

Will be interesting to see how this goes, the fact that it was not done on air may save them.

Very interesting though that Sky themselves are hanging them out to dry on Sky News etc. I think its rightfully so that its done, but it quite interesting that they're having debates on the issue and not just either ignoring it or mentioning it in passing.

plasmaguy

Oh they made the comments before the match?

Still doesn't excuse it.

Keys and Gray were probably just being stupid more than being sexist.

They seem to be a bit out of touch with how things are in today's world.

SantryRed

plasmaguy wrote: »

To be honest her decisions for the 1st and 3rd goals were spot on and far better than most male linesmen I've seen down through the years.

She also got it right in real time with 20,000 home fans screaming down her neck, most male linesman would have put up their flag in that situation. So it was some of the best officiating I have seen in a long time.

As for Gray and Keys, both had the benefit of an elevated viewpoint and replays from every angle and yet both still got it wrong.

Maybe it's Gray and Keys who need the offside rule explained to them!

What you have just written is actually the most ironic post I have ever seen on here. By saying most men would call that offside is being equally sexist. Ridiculous post.

plasmaguy

SantryRed wrote: »

What you have just written is actually the most ironic post I have ever seen on here. By saying most men would call that offside is being equally sexist. Ridiculous post.

You just don't get it do you.

I am responding to a controversy which was started by two broadcasters/analysts saying a woman mightn't be able to officiate because she didn't know the rules.

My response was that many male linesman have got it wrong whereas this woman got it right, thus proving once and for all that men are no better than women at officiating.

What I said was not sexist in the least. Look up the dictionary if you wanna know what sexist is!

And it's always the person who says "ridiculous post" who is themselves ridiculous.

SarahBM

Bodhisopha wrote: »

Let's not go overboard...

what do you mean "over board"?
why is it over board to suggest that one of the longest serving sports presenters on sky sports news should get Keyes Job?
Im not saying it because she is a woman, Im saying it because I genuinely think she would be a better host and pundit.

niallo27

SarahBM wrote: »

what do you mean "over board"?
why is it over board to suggest that one of the longest serving sports presenters on sky sports news should get Keyes Job?
Im not saying it because she is a woman, Im saying it because I genuinely think she would be a better host and pundit.

Football is a mans sport, a large percentage of people are not going take a woman talk about football serious, right or wrong its the truth, if your not a good looking bird you wont get near presenting about football

plasmaguy

I always have to laugh when someone tries to make the point that football is a "mans sport" and for example a 30 stone man who never kicked a ball in his life automatically knows more than women who have played or officiated the game.

niallo27

plasmaguy wrote: »

I always have to laugh when someone tries to make the point that football is a "mans sport" and for example a 30 stone man who never kicked a ball in his life automatically knows more than women who have played or officiated the game.

Yep thats the way it is, your not going be able to change anything about it now, i didnt say it was right or wrong just the way it is, go on so tell me an ugly bird working on tv in football

SantryRed

plasmaguy wrote: »

You just don't get it do you.

I am responding to a controversy which was started by two broadcasters/analysts saying a woman mightn't be able to officiate because she didn't know the rules.

My response was that many male linesman have got it wrong whereas this woman got it right, thus proving once and for all that men are no better than women at officiating.

What I said was not sexist in the least. Look up the dictionary if you wanna know what sexist is!

And it's always the person who says "ridiculous post" who is themselves ridiculous.

Your post is ridiculous. To say that most male linesman would get it wrong is as bad as saying a woman will make a bad decision. A bad linesperson would have made a wrong call. Look, at the end of the day it doesn't matter if it's a man or woman, as long as it is a qualified official then that is all that matters.

plasmaguy

SantryRed wrote: »

Look, at the end of the day it doesn't matter if it's a man or woman, as long as it is a qualified official then that is all that matters.

Agreed...

As for the rest, anyone who has watched football for any length of time has seen shocking decisions by every male referee or linesman. In fact watch Match of the Day any week and you will see several poor decisions per match by every referee or linesmen. The standard of refereeing in the Premier League is usually quite poor. And yes very few linesman get the absolute borderline decisions spot on like this lineswoman got it spot on. Other linespersons (careful not to say linesmen here) either call the borderline decisions offside when they are not, or onside when they are not and it's made doubly difficult when it's for or against the home side.

I'm sorry if that offends you!

My post wasn't ridiculous in the least. Time to put you on ignore methinks. If you are just going to label reasonable posts ridiculous then you need to mature a little.

SarahBM

niallo27 wrote: »

Football is a mans sport, a large percentage of people are not going take a woman talk about football serious, right or wrong its the truth, if your not a good looking bird you wont get near presenting about football

Are you for real??? mans sport! I dont think so. your not related to Richard Keyes by any chance?!?!?

do you think men talking about fashion shouldnt be taken seriously because its a "womens thing"?

get real. there is a larger percentage of women than you think who watch play and commentate on football. and please dont call a woman bird.

K-9

plasmaguy wrote: »

I always have to laugh when someone tries to make the point that football is a "mans sport" and for example a 30 stone man who never kicked a ball in his life automatically knows more than women who have played or officiated the game.

You get that at different levels too. I read a piece on the Guardian website about Gray earlier that mentioned he looked down on journalists who hadn't played the game to a high level. It goes on about managers too.

OPENROAD

Blimey front page of Irish Star going with this story :eek:

UnitedIrishman

Strangely, women doing the line might actually work in so far as stopping abuse from players. It's hard to imagine a defender or striker venomously shouting in the face of a female official without everyone going "that's not on" or the said player coming out of it badly. Which is what it should be like when a male official takes the field. As long as they aren't making mistakes then what about?

As for Gray and Keys - I'd have them both sacked, mainly for the last number of years they've been talking absolute sh*te moreso than for what they've said on Saturday. The game needs analysts like BBC had when they had Martin O'Neill and Leonardo for the WC that time. Get guys on that can talk about football without being know-it-alls as Gray and Keys are.

SarahBM

I think most of us agree that it is the fact that Keyes and Gray unfairly judged Sian Massey's ability to perform her duties as a referee's assistant (and her understanding of the off side rule) that was offensive and sexist, because the only fact they took into account was her gender. not her experience and qualifications.
I would love to know what Sian said to Keyes when he phoned her to apologise. could you really take an apology from him seriously when you know he meant what he said and is probably being forced to apologise by his bosses.

niallo27

SarahBM wrote: »

Are you for real??? mans sport! I dont think so. your not related to Richard Keyes by any chance?!?!?

do you think men talking about fashion shouldnt be taken seriously because its a "womens thing"?

get real. there is a larger percentage of women than you think who watch play and commentate on football. and please dont call a woman bird.

I didnt say it was right but i just think its largely a male sport, paul galvin is talking about fashion lately and everyone is taking the piss out of him, who watches womens football, eurosport might show some but nobody else, i dont remember hearing any women commentate on football

Bodhisopha

SarahBM wrote: »

what do you mean "over board"?
why is it over board to suggest that one of the longest serving sports presenters on sky sports news should get Keyes Job?
Im not saying it because she is a woman, Im saying it because I genuinely think she would be a better host and pundit.

She's great at reading cue cards and having a flirty laugh with her co-presenters but i have seen no evidence to suggest that she knows much about the game. Preferably, i'd like someone a bit more clued in than Richie Keys.

Iang87

I dunno why there is such grief about what they said. I haven't heard the thing but by any chance were they just takin the piss in general.

Also the karen brady thing is a bit hmmm ........ ok i dunno how to say anything about her without gettin banned. Lets say she's just quite outspoken.

As for the linesman/woman, lineswoman, referees assistant whatever she is as long as she makes the right call i dont care whats in her shorts.

As for firing the gray and keyes lets not go insane here and the difference between marsh was he commented on the tsunami when it was still very fresh and ron atkinson called a guy the n word. Theres no precedent set by those two sackings for these two and sky aren't going to sack the face and voice of their football for nearly 20 years

Exclamation Marc

Bodhisopha wrote: »

She's great at reading cue cards and having a flirty laugh with her co-presenters but i have seen no evidence to suggest that she knows much about the game. Preferably, i'd like someone a bit more clued in than Richie Keys.

I'd be happy to have Georgie as the new host if she was the best that Sky had in the pipeline, but fact is that there are a lot better presenters out there, like Dave Jones tonight. Jeff Stelling would even be a better fit (he does some of the lower league games) although he probably wouldnt be picked.

You need someone who does more than just read the news to present your flagship programming, male or female.

OPENROAD

Bodhisopha wrote: »

She's great at reading cue cards and having a flirty laugh with her co-presenters but i have seen no evidence to suggest that she knows much about the game. Preferably, i'd like someone a bit more clued in than Richie Keys.

Gaby Logan has been an excellent stand in presenter on MOTD, would go as far as to say she should get that gig full time.

Sarah Jane Mee also does an excellent job of presenting Football First on Sky.

mike65

Jasus niallo you'll have to be trained up for life in the 21st century! Jacqui Oatley does commentary for the BBC sometimes (her voice is just not suited to it though, she suffers "Ger Gilroy rising excitability" syndrome)

---

I dunno why there is such grief about what they said. I haven't heard the thing but by any chance were they just takin the piss in general.

Nope they were deadly serious the audio is on this thread somewhere (or youtube I'd say)

edit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV0oWNVG7Mw

Bodhisopha

Iang87 wrote: »

I dunno why there is such grief about what they said. I haven't heard the thing but by any chance were they just takin the piss in general.

Also the karen brady thing is a bit hmmm ........ ok i dunno how to say anything about her without gettin banned. Lets say she's just quite outspoken.

As for the linesman/woman, lineswoman, referees assistant whatever she is as long as she makes the right call i dont care whats in her shorts.

As for firing the gray and keyes lets not go insane here and the difference between marsh was he commented on the tsunami when it was still very fresh and ron atkinson called a guy the n word. Theres no precedent set by those two sackings for these two and sky aren't going to sack the face and voice of their football for nearly 20 years

It looks that way in print but when you listen to it you can hear the sneering contempt from Keys.

Iang87

SarahBM wrote: »

I think most of us agree that it is the fact that Keyes and Gray unfairly judged Sian Massey's ability to perform her duties as a referee's assistant (and her understanding of the off side rule) that was offensive and sexist, because the only fact they took into account was her gender. not her experience and qualifications.
I would love to know what Sian said to Keyes when he phoned her to apologise. could you really take an apology from him seriously when you know he meant what he said and is probably being forced to apologise by his bosses.

i genuinely believe there just taking the piss off the age old joke that women dont understand the offside rule

SarahBM

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Strangely, women doing the line might actually work in so far as stopping abuse from players. It's hard to imagine a defender or striker venomously shouting in the face of a female official without everyone going "that's not on" or the said player coming out of it badly. Which is what it should be like when a male official takes the field. As long as they aren't making mistakes then what about?

As for Gray and Keys - I'd have them both sacked, mainly for the last number of years they've been talking absolute sh*te moreso than for what they've said on Saturday. The game needs analysts like BBC had when they had Martin O'Neill and Leonardo for the WC that time. Get guys on that can talk about football without being know-it-alls as Gray and Keys are.

but why should players react differently to a ref just because they are female. you shout tonns of abuse at me, I give you a warning. continue, you get a yellow card for dissent and foul and abusive language. you continue further, you get 2nd yellow and sent off. right or wrong?
now why should a male referee tolerate more bull from players than a female, or visa versa. same rules should apply to all right. Boys arent going to behave them selves just because the ref is a girl. well I personally wouldnt like to be treated differently because Im a girl.

the whole attitude that women dont know anything about football or sports is just soooooo out dated.

plasmaguy

Sky will probably put them on leave for a few weeks until things blow over and they will be back again.

As it's my last post tonight, I will just say I was impressed with Massey's decision making. I've seen a hell of a lot of linespersons get those really tight decisions wrong in the past, but she got them spot on.

But oh, of course, it's a man's game and all that. :rolleyes:

SarahBM

Iang87 wrote: »

i genuinely believe there just taking the piss off the age old joke that women dont understand the offside rule

did you listen to the audio??? Keyes wasnt messing, and neither was Gray. the tone was very nasty. I definitely didnt think they were messing. :mad:

Iang87

Bodhisopha wrote: »

It looks that way in print but when you listen to it you can hear the sneering contempt from Keys.

ok i just listened i take it all back they're not takin the piss. still dont think they'll be sacked to be honest

Exclamation Marc

I actually think Mark Chapman would be an exceptionally good presenter, he was great on Talk of the Terrace and PTI, and is great on Final Score.

Him or James Richardson (if only it were possible!)

In fairness, if Sky pushed a new face to the moon and really built them up it would really rejuvinate the brand, so it could be a perfect opportunity to do that.

lordgoat

DH2K9 wrote: »

They will probably sack the microphones on/off guy

guy?

Bodhisopha

OPENROAD wrote: »

Gaby Logan has been an excellent stand in presenter on MOTD, would go as far as to say she should get that gig full time.

Sarah Jane Mee also does an excellent job of presenting Football First on Sky.

I'm thinking specifically about Sky's coverage of the Champions League when they start at 6pm and talk a lot about European football. Keys was awful on that, i'd like someone better on that.

Couldn't care less about Super Sunday or whatever they call it as i don't watch their punditry for that anyways.

UnitedIrishman

SarahBM wrote: »

but why should players react differently to a ref just because they are female. you shout tonns of abuse at me, I give you a warning. continue, you get a yellow card for dissent and foul and abusive language. you continue further, you get 2nd yellow and sent off. right or wrong?
now why should a male referee tolerate more bull from players than a female, or visa versa. same rules should apply to all right. Boys arent going to behave them selves just because the ref is a girl. well I personally wouldnt like to be treated differently because Im a girl.

the whole attitude that women dont know anything about football or sports is just soooooo out dated.

If you read after that line I said that male referees should be treated with the same respect. But it's a social thing, men are expected to treat women with high respect and not to be shouting or giving abuse to them if you know what I mean? Put it this way, if I saw my neighbour roaring abuse in the face of his wife outside their house my view of that man would change majorly.

I agree, they should be treated equally, and by equally it should be with respect.

Mars Bar

niallo27 wrote: »

I didnt say it was right but i just think its largely a male sport, paul galvin is talking about fashion lately and everyone is taking the piss out of him, who watches womens football, eurosport might show some but nobody else, i dont remember hearing any women commentate on football

Because they don't get a chance due to the perception that its a mans game.
Thankfully, womens football is the fastest growing sport in the world and i'd like to think we'll see more women on the television analysing games and not just women for their looks, but for their knowledge.

Bodhisopha

Iang87 wrote: »

ok i just listened i take it all back they're not takin the piss. still dont think they'll be sacked to be honest

Sacked is a bit strong yeah, but they shouldn't be the figureheads of Sky's number 1 product anymore.

Paparazzo

Sack everyone on Sky Sports and just get Jeff Stelling and Kammy do absolutely everything on the channel

SantryRed wrote: »

Your post is ridiculous. To say that most male linesman would get it wrong is as bad as saying a woman will make a bad decision. A bad linesperson would have made a wrong call. Look, at the end of the day it doesn't matter if it's a man or woman, as long as it is a qualified official then that is all that matters.

Yeah, as most LoI fans know, women "linesmen" are equally as bad as men.

lordgoat

Bodhisopha wrote: »

Sacked is a bit strong yeah, but they shouldn't be the figureheads of Sky's number 1 product anymore.

i agree, stick them down on division 2 or 3 for a few weeks.

sky could use this as a way to shake up their programming. badly needed.

niallo27

OPENROAD wrote: »

Gaby Logan has been an excellent stand in presenter on MOTD, would go as far as to say she should get that gig full time.

Sarah Jane Mee also does an excellent job of presenting Football First on Sky.

But what have all these women got in common, their really good looking, is it just a coincidence that really good looking women know their football

Exclamation Marc

Bodhisopha wrote: »

I'm thinking specifically about Sky's coverage of the Champions League when they start at 6pm and talk a lot about European football. Keys was awful on that, i'd like someone better on that.

James Richardson, job done

niallo27

mars bar wrote: »

Because they don't get a chance due to the perception that its a mans game.
Thankfully, womens football is the fastest growing sport in the world and i'd like to think we'll see more women on the television analysing games and not just women for their looks, but for their knowledge.

The question is would you sit down and watch 90 mins of womens football

OPENROAD

niallo27 wrote: »

But what have all these women got in common, their really good looking, is it just a coincidence that really good looking women know their football

I'm sorry, but because they are good looking, it somehow follows that they don't know anything about football??

SarahBM

niallo27 wrote: »

I didnt say it was right but i just think its largely a male sport, paul galvin is talking about fashion lately and everyone is taking the piss out of him, who watches womens football, eurosport might show some but nobody else, i dont remember hearing any women commentate on football

I agree its largely a male sport, but not as much as it used to be. times have moved on. RTE for example have a 3 or 4 female sports correspondents. Joanne Cantwell and Evan Ní Chuillin, Claire Byrne etc. Sky tend to keep theirs locked up in the studio.
Did you watch any of the FIFA Womens World Cup? I heard female commentators. and I saw better football too in some games.
I also havent heard anyone mocking paul galvin.

DOC09UNAM

OPENROAD wrote: »

I'm sorry, but because they are good looking, it somehow follows that they don't know anything about football??

Not what he's saying at all.

He's saying only the good looking ones are the ones hired for tv, which is true to be fair.

niallo27

SarahBM wrote: »

I agree its largely a male sport, but not as much as it used to be. times have moved on. RTE for example have a 3 or 4 female sports correspondents. Joanne Cantwell and Evan Ní Chuillin, Claire Byrne etc. Sky tend to keep theirs locked up in the studio.
Did you watch any of the FIFA Womens World Cup? I heard female commentators. and I saw better football too in some games.
I also havent heard anyone mocking paul galvin.

I was listening to newstalk during the week and they were talking about him moving to a dublin football club, and the boys were taking the piss about him showing up to training in a fancy Armani suit and ****, no i didnt watch any of the womens world cup tbh and i dont think i ever would, not being sexist it just wouldnt interest me

OPENROAD

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

Not what he's saying at all.

He's saying only the good looking ones are the ones hired for tv, which is true to be fair.

Fair enough.

Apologies niallo27

Mars Bar

niallo27 wrote: »

The question is would you sit down and watch 90 mins of womens football

Eh, yes, naturally enough. i only watched every game the u 17 irish girls played in qualifying and the group.stages and the knock out round of the world cup in trinidad and Tobago.

niallo27

mars bar wrote: »

Eh, yes, naturally enough. i only watched every game the u 17 irish girls played in qualifying and the group.stages and the knock out round of the world cup in trinidad and Tobago.

Really, had you a personal tie to the team

SarahBM

niallo27 wrote: »

I was listening to newstalk during the week and they were talking about him moving to a dublin football club, and the boys were taking the piss about him showing up to training in a fancy Armani suit and ****, no i didnt watch any of the womens world cup tbh and i dont think i ever would, not being sexist it just wouldnt interest me

didnt hear that, but I dont think men should be mocked over good fashion sense. I have crap fashion sense and could probably use his advice!

Fair enough if your not interesting in womens soccer, but Im just saying that there are plenty of women who watch soccer ( the man one).
just because the majority of players are men doesnt mean women dont watch or have an opinion. Im sorry if Im sounding defensive, I dont mean to. But Im just sick and tired of this perception that women arent interest or know nothing about soccer.

I heard on the news Keyes apologised but did Gray?