Wicklow

DeVore

worsel wrote: »

I'm Confused !!!
Have a look at the two links under.
In longford after the First Count they got rid of 5 candidates and re-distributed there votes ...
While in Wicklow after the first Count they eliminated only one candidate ...while ( to me anyway) they could have eliminated the Bottom 12 ??

http://www.rte.ie/news/election2011/results/wicklow.html
V
http://www.rte.ie/news/election2011/results/longford-westmeath.html

Does Anybody yknow of any Internet Site --that explains PR ??..

They couldnt eliminate the bottom 12 in Wicklow. Heres why:

Suppose all of the IND mostly transferred to Independent A. In the PR/STV way, each candidate is eliminated from the bottom up, one at a time. That approach would send A up the list like a rocket and potentially vying for a seat. Certainly out of elimination territory.

In your way of doing things, all 12 would be eliminated and A would be too.

Now, sometimes they eliminate 5 (lets say) at a time. Thats because even if EVERY transfer from all of them, went to the guy with the most votes in that group, he STILL wouldnt exceed the 6th lowest guy. So NO MATTER WHAT, its numerically impossible that the lowest 5 *wont* be eliminated.

Sometimes this is possible, and some times it isnt (because of the numbers).

DeV.

Savage Tyrant

westtip wrote: »

and most important of all spared Wicklow the embarrassment of a Shinner.

Wicklow would not have been embarrassed by a Shinner. Maybe you personally but certainly not Wicklow.
Somebody who completely disregards the opinion of more than 10% of the counties electorate, now that, that would be an embarrassment.

hdowney

i don't know. maybe wicklow would have been embarrased by a 'shinner' as the poster put it, but i think the county - those that voted certainly - had more respect for john brady than to go, oh he is a member of sinn fein therefore i am not voting for him on principle.

now i also know for a fact that some people didn't vote for him purely because of the fact he belongs to the sinn fein party.

but i am sure there were a lot of people who didn't vote party preference or otherwise. they voted for the PEOPLE they thought most deserving of the seat for whatever reason and party allegiance didn't come into it

Capt'n Midnight

just a note on Brady not asking for a recount didn't the returning officer say that any recount would only be done from count 13 onwards ? , presumably because of previous recounting.

Far less scope of finding a big change that had been missed twice already, so not quite as magnanimous as some would like to make it sound.


Meanwhile in Galway :pac:
2158 Galway West: Recheck and recount ongoing. Revised first count result expected around 1am, to be followed by revised results for the other 12 counts.

hdowney

here is the thing that i have a problem with here. the re-count. the RO offfered Brady a recount from count 14 onward only claiming that she had already had counts 1-13 recounted and therefore did not have to do it again. however as far as i knew what had happened previously - with the whole Roche fiasco - was that counts 1-13 had been 'rechecked' NOT recounted. there were various questions both here and on twitter etc as to whether or not the RO was having a recount or recheck when she was going through the process, as people felt there was not enough information coming out of the centre. then afterwards it was said she rechecked them.

so that to me would mean counts 1-13 were NOT recounted, only rechecked, so the RO saying she had already held a recount of counts 1-13 and therefore didn't have to grant Brady another one seems wrong to me. he should have been entitled to the full and complete recount from count one??

ebbsy

It also would have spared us having to look at Roache again, starting at 14.

Capt'n Midnight

ebbsy wrote: »

It also would have spared us having to look at Roache again, starting at 14.

it' would nearly be worth it to see him eliminated again

Antrim_Man

Hard luck John Brady, its a shame there is 3 FG elected. One less of them and Brady and Donnelly would have been ideal.

Make no mistake, FG and FF are one side of the same coin.

SB-08

Stephen Donnelly is on newstalk now with MING.:D

westtip

Antrim_Man wrote: »

Hard luck John Brady, its a shame there is 3 FG elected. One less of them and Brady and Donnelly would have been ideal.

Make no mistake, FG and FF are one side of the same coin.

Except that FG have to now and unravel the mess FF left us in
Except that FG might actually listen to the Dept of Finance and say we have no money to the people and acting accordingly - unlike FF.
Except that FG seem to have a leader who is connected to his people and for the time being has not forgotten thats where he came from.

But yes they do share some common ground and if the remaining FF's had anything about them they would wind up the party, cross the floor of the house accept their place in history, take to the Government BACK BENCHES expecting no places in cabinet, and finally realign irish politics.

96 right of centre TDs on the government benches plus the right of centre independents taking the government whip woudl probably be a fair reflection of irish "conservative" political landscape - and it would give us a good strong left wing opposition. FG/Labour is a fudge and will just continue to reinforce the FF/FG stranglehold, The left wing vote in the next election will continue to swing to Sinn Fein ULA PBP etc and away from a labour party supporting a radical right wing party, labour are doing themselves a disservice allying with FG, and FF are doing the country a disservice in not grasping this opportunity to realign the irish political landscape.

westtip

Savage Tyrant wrote: »

Wicklow would not have been embarrassed by a Shinner. Maybe you personally but certainly not Wicklow.
Somebody who completely disregards the opinion of more than 10% of the counties electorate, now that, that would be an embarrassment.

Hilarious. I would rather take heed of the 90% who didn't.

gcgirl

Antrim_Man wrote: »

Hard luck John Brady, its a shame there is 3 FG elected. One less of them and Brady and Donnelly would have been ideal.

Make no mistake, FG and FF are one side of the same coin.

Totally agreed there

Antrim_Man

westtip wrote: »

Except that FG have to now and unravel the mess FF left us in
Except that FG might actually listen to the Dept of Finance and say we have no money to the people and acting accordingly - unlike FF.
Except that FG seem to have a leader who is connected to his people and for the time being has not forgotten thats where he came from.

But yes they do share some common ground and if the remaining FF's had anything about them they would wind up the party, cross the floor of the house accept their place in history, take to the Government BACK BENCHES expecting no places in cabinet, and finally realign irish politics.

96 right of centre TDs on the government benches plus the right of centre independents taking the government whip woudl probably be a fair reflection of irish political landscape - and it would give us a good strong left wing opposition. FG/Labour is a fudge and will just continue to reinforce the FF/FG stranglehold.

Well its up to FG to prove this doubter wrong. Now that their arses are in power I can almost hear the excuses.

Enda "Political reform will take a back seat while we try and resolve the economy first"

The perks will continue unabated. Cynical, who me?

gcgirl

The mercs should be done away with straight away with the exception of Justice and Enda himself the rest have prob have decent enough cars to get them from a to b and I hope reform of the Dail happens sooner rather than later

Savage Tyrant

westtip wrote: »

Hilarious. I would rather take heed of the 90% who didn't.

Hilarious? Why so? 91% of the counties electorate didn't give a first prefernce vote to Donnelly, whom you then say isn't an embarrassment to Wicklow.
They polled within 112 vote of each other.... My point then is Wicklow can't be embarrassed of one if not of the other.

Savage Tyrant

Savage Tyrant wrote: »

Hilarious? Why so? 91% of the counties electorate didn't give a first prefernce vote to Donnelly, whom you then say isn't an embarrassment to Wicklow.
They polled within 112 vote of each other.... My point then is Wicklow can't be embarrassed of one if not of the other.

This is a silly debate.

By the same token 70%+ of wicklow voters gave their top 4 preferences to centre right candidates.

The pr system is all about preferences when getting elected as in they give a view[in the case of wicklow] on which 5 candidates they prefer to represent them.

Now you are going to find a minority of people who are embarrassed with that fact just as you'd find a minority bothered to be embarrassed if a SF candidate is elected.
Both positions are vacuous at this stage in my humble opinion.

iPlop

I voted for Donnelly 1st and Brady 2nd ,why? It had nothing to do with weather they were left or centre right.It was about the passion and integrity I saw in both men ,they clearly believed they could do something for this country and I believed if at least 1 got in it would be a start to making a small voice bigger.I didn't care that Brady was SF ,it was about the man himself ,he's a smart bloke and wants to help the community.

I hope he gets in next time.

edanto

I think that if Donnelly had gotten his campaign started a few weeks earlier, he might have been competing for one of the first 3 seats that FG won, and then perhaps we might be able to congratulate John and Stephen on their seats. I think the two of them in the Dail would be a good result for Wicklow, but perhaps next time.

gcgirl

I would really love to fast forward 5 years and see how an Independent has such an impact but oh yeh tried that like 10 yrs ago and she(Mildred Fox) was ????? answers on a postcard

d'Oracle

gcgirl wrote: »

I would really love to fast forward 5 years and see how an Independent has such an impact but oh yeh tried that like 10 yrs ago and she(Mildred Fox) was ????? answers on a postcard

I'm really not sure what you are saying here.

But the mention of Mildred got my back up.
She was a Fianna Failer by another name and a dynastic politician. Just like her dad (ex fianna fail). She was basically Wicklows Micheal Healy Rae.
Except less successful in obtaining anything.

Not only was she useless, she represents a big slice of everything that is wrong with Irish politics.

gcgirl

exactly independents are useless

d'Oracle wrote: »

I'm really not sure what you are saying here.

But the mention of Mildred got my back up.
She was a Fianna Failer by another name and a dynastic politician. Just like her dad (ex fianna fail). She was basically Wicklows Micheal Healy Rae.
Except less successful in obtaining anything.

Not only was she useless, she represents a big slice of everything that is wrong with Irish politics.

I voted on policy and ideas and fixing the mess this country is in.
That made it fairly easy to vote for Stephen and made it easy for me to vote Fine gael.
It made it impossible at this juncture to vote Brady.

I've no doubt that Brady is a very good activist in the community but his partys policies on running the country were ridiculous and still are...and as a Dáil election,thats what I was voting on.

A Dub in Glasgo

Deleted User wrote: »

I voted on policy and ideas and fixing the mess this country is in.
That made it fairly easy to vote for Stephen and made it easy for me to vote Fine gael.
It made it impossible at this juncture to vote Brady.

I've no doubt that Brady is a very good activist in the community but his partys policies on running the country were ridiculous and still are...and as a Dáil election,thats what I was voting on.

I'm confused, you voted for an independent to fix the problems the country is facing.. how is he going to do that? Is he a closet member of Fine Gael, will he be joining them? Surely he will form part of the opposition

Mushy

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

I'm confused, you voted for an independent to fix the problems the country is facing.. how is he going to do that? Is he a closet member of Fine Gael, will he be joining them? Surely he will form part of the opposition

This idea of the Opposition should really stop now given the situation the country is in. The Government should use the available resources with the Dáil chamber where possible. People like Donnelly would be much better equipped to help out than the likes of Brady, although they should all be listened to.

Everybody knows not one single person is going to fix it, but at least someone who has some semblance of a clue is better in there, taking up their time to make an effort. He is now in a position to help the Government, and it is quite clear they would be stupid not to listen to him at worst. No need to slate him because he is an Independent.

Coriolanus

Mushy wrote: »

This idea of the Opposition should really stop now given the situation the country is in.

Actually the idea of the Opposition is a pretty important part of the balance of power. I'd much rather not have a party in power trying to cozy up to everyone on the other side of the floor in an effort to stifle debate and acrimony. For good or for ill, the gears of democracy grind slow but sometimes thats a boon because it allows issues that wouild be otherwise brushed under the carpet, to come to light.

Mushy

Nevore wrote: »

Actually the idea of the Opposition is a pretty important part of the balance of power. I'd much rather not have a party in power trying to cozy up to everyone on the other side of the floor in an effort to stifle debate and acrimony. For good or for ill, the gears of democracy grind slow but sometimes thats a boon because it allows issues that wouild be otherwise brushed under the carpet, to come to light.

Ah yeah I totally understand that. But in the case of Donnelly, there should be no reason why FG wouldn't seek his advice on matters relating to the IMF just because he is on the opposition bench. No point getting external expertise when its sitting across the room from them.

Annasopra

Has Donnelly actually ever even negotiated with the IMF?

opinion guy

Johnnymcg wrote: »

Has Donnelly actually ever even negotiated with the IMF?

Why would he have ?
Here's a better question - have the two Brian's ever even negotiated with the IMF ?

A Dub in Glasgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

I'm confused, you voted for an independent to fix the problems the country is facing.. how is he going to do that? Is he a closet member of Fine Gael, will he be joining them? Surely he will form part of the opposition

No confusion needed.
It was clear to me at the time of voting that 3 options were possible.
FG on it's own.
FG with labour
FG with like minded independents.

I voted accordingly.
Stephens views coincide with my own at the moment in a lot of areas as do fine gael.
All of the above options looked feasible to me and represented credible options to fix the country.

If the numbers were right and stephen and Shane Ross and a few others were all that were needed,they wouldn't be closet FG ..no more than SF would be closet Labour had the left got the numbers and all were willing to join up.
I think you know what I meant anyway,you just disagree with the prospect and my logic,which is understandable when you are from a Sinn Féin background or supporter of theirs.
The two concepts or belief sets are in compatible which brings me back to my last post,I obviously then could vote for Stephen but not for John.

I'd have no problem voting for a good community activist to a local council..but for government I have to share ground on their policies.

A Dub in Glasgo

Deleted User wrote: »

I think you know what I meant anyway,you just disagree with the prospect and my logic,which is understandable when you are from a Sinn Féin background or supporter of theirs.

Actually I do not disagree with your logic, I was interested how that logic translated into voting for an independent to fix the national problems. I can see why you done it although it looks as if he will have as much influence as the rest of the opposition [this assumes there will be a FG/Labour coalition].

Annasopra

opinion guy wrote: »

Why would he have ?
Here's a better question - have the two Brian's ever even negotiated with the IMF ?

Because he claims expertise in the area - There's a big difference between studying the theory of something and actually doing it - The theory isn't always how it works in practice.

Blowfish

Johnnymcg wrote: »

Because he claims expertise in the area - There's a big difference between studying the theory of something and actually doing it - The theory isn't always how it works in practice.

Except for the fact that he never claimed to have studied the theory on how to negociate with the IMF.

Annasopra

Blowfish wrote: »

Except for the fact that he never claimed to have studied the theory on how to negociate with the IMF.

did he not?

My name is Stephen Donnelly and I’m asking for your number 1 vote in the upcoming elections. I live in Greystones with my wife, Susan, and our two small boys. In my career I’ve helped businesses to grow, I’ve helped frontline public servants build high quality, efficient services and I’ve helped NGOs serve communities. At Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government I trained to negotiate with the IMF and to rebuild economies.

Stephen is 35 years old and lives in Greystones with his wife, Susan, and two young boys. He grew up in Delgany and Greystones and attended St. David’s secondary school.

Professional & Educational Background

He studied engineering at UCD and MIT before joining international management consultancy, McKinsey & Company.

In 2008, he completed a Masters’ degree in Public Administration and International Development at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government. Here he examined, in detail, the interaction between the IMF and small states.

My background is in International business, in working with frontline public servants and in economics. Specifically, at harvard, I studied what to do when the IMF come into your country, how you work with them and how you begin to rebuild the economy.

Stephen Donnelly is running as a non-party candidate in the anticipated 2011 General Election. He lives in Greystones with his wife, Susan, and their two young boys. He grew up in Delgany and Greystones and attended St. David’s secondary school. He attended UCD, MIT (Boston) and Harvard Universities where his work at the Kennedy School of Government included detailed analysis of the International Monetary Fund (IMF).

Blowfish

Johnnymcg wrote: »

did he not?

Fair enough, I thought it was just how a country should handle IMF intervention that he studied.

Antrim_Man

Antrim_Man wrote: »

Well its up to FG to prove this doubter wrong. Now that their arses are in power I can almost hear the excuses.

Enda "Political reform will take a back seat while we try and resolve the economy first"

The perks will continue unabated. Cynical, who me?

Enda back tracking all over the place already :rolleyes:

iPlop

Antrim_Man wrote: »

Enda back tracking all over the place already :rolleyes:

Back tracking is not the word, it makes me wonder? Republicans?

Antrim_Man

Antrim_Man wrote: »

Well its up to FG to prove this doubter wrong. Now that their arses are in power I can almost hear the excuses.

Enda "Political reform will take a back seat while we try and resolve the economy first"

The perks will continue unabated. Cynical, who me?

Timely bump. FG are a useless shower of ***** . Ivan Yates commented that after they won the election they "FG" felt it was "their" time to ride the gravy train and that political reform would not happen.

So there you have it. FG lying ***** no different than FF.