Wicklow

fenris

Hayden Gentle Ruffian wrote: »

What about just giving him a good kickin'

We did that when we voted

donothoponpop

d'Oracle wrote: »

I looked at the candidates who were in parties and from this rather easily deduced that the box beside the picture was the one to fill in.
The instructions printed at the top backed this up.

I figured this out on my own whilst tired, excited and about to drive to Galway.

This really isn't an issue.

Plenty of people who were unfamiliar with ballot papers, or were looking for the names of their independents to give first preference to, or with poor eyesight, have made it an issue. There will be many spoiled ballots caused by this poor design (or peoples stupidity, if you prefer).

I'd far prefer it wasn't an issue, but the large number of these votes that will be contested because people were presented with a choice of two identical boxes either side of most candidates name, means it is an issue.

hdowney

i am sure there is some sort of documentation as to what is classified a spoiled vote.

mind you i think we as an irish people are not informed as much as we should be on the voting procedures. for example i have voted on a number of occasions and had next to no idea what the whole perforation thingy was about. so when they mentioned that some were not perforated properly i asked my mother why does that matter, only to be informed that you are meant to show the perforation to the people in the polling station as you place your voting paper in the ballot box??? really??? i didn't and would have had a hard job this election as i had to fold said paper up about five times to get it in the box.

and aparantly we all have different franking machines with different perforation alignment so you know which papers came from which areas and stuff.

i knew none of this. nobody told me anything. i turned 18 back when and was deemed old enough to have a vote, but nobody taught me anything about the voting processes in ireland.

the only thing i have heard about this election compared to others is a bit more on our system of preportional representation. but nothing on the complete dynamic of voting as a whole.

i can see though the more questions raised about wicklows ballot the more likely that any vote not pristine will be dumped as spoiled to make life easier. which may in turn alter the outcome drastically we do not know

edanto

hdowney wrote: »

what i mean by that is numbers in the party box instead of in the correct box for numbers. i can however see if it is obvious how the person intended their 1,2,3 etc to go (with some numbers in the correct boxes and some in the wrong) why the count centre staff would decide to keep them as ok votes. however now with all this hooha and recount business i can see that any vote that is not 'perfect' will be deemed a spoiled vote. so i think we can assume wicklow will have considerably more spoiled votes by the time we elect our five tds

I humbly suggest that you are mistaken.

My understanding of the rules of spoilt votes are that any ballot where the voting intentions are clear is to be counted.

So in the case where someone has voted 1 to X and each number is only written down once, even if the number is not in the correct square, it will count.

More opinions here - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056185653

wonderfulname

Opinions count for nothing, any marking/writing other that the right numbers in the right boxes on the ballot paper will make it invalid or a spoilt vote.

hdowney

edanto wrote: »

I humbly suggest that you are mistaken.

My understanding of the rules of spoilt votes are that any ballot where the voting intentions are clear is to be counted.

So in the case where someone has voted 1 to X and each number is only written down once, even if the number is not in the correct square, it will count.

More opinions here - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056185653

i take your point well. you would certainly hope this to be the case, as as long as each number is used only once, and clearly it would seem like a valid vote from perhaps a confused voter. it is rather unfair to penalise them for their confusion if the constituancy they are voting in didn't do all to help them understand the paper.

however as i said above, with the continuing questioning left right and centre i can now see all papers of this kind being deemed invalid in order to simplify the process and settle complainants.

unfair to the people who made the unfortunate mistakes - deffo

d'Oracle

This is probably what the RO had to adjudicate on.

Billy Timmons, the defacto King of West Wicklow, has come out and confirmed this now.

Along with a number of un-franked ballots. He also admitted that Dick was right to seek a recheck.

edanto

wonderfulname wrote: »

Opinions count for nothing, any marking/writing other that the right numbers in the right boxes on the ballot paper will make it invalid or a spoilt vote.

At least I had the courtesy to refer to the opinions of about 10 other people!!

What's the basis of your opinion?! I mean, if you can clear this up with a link to a returning officers manual, or have direct experience of the issue, then that would add weight to your opinion.

hatrickpatrick

wonderfulname wrote: »

Opinions count for nothing, any marking/writing other that the right numbers in the right boxes on the ballot paper will make it invalid or a spoilt vote.

Not necessarily, during tallying in Dun Laoghaire there was a vote #1 for Richard Boyd Barrett and the person had written a letter in every box below it so that it spelled F, U, C, K, , O, F, F

They counted the #1 as a valid first preference AFAIK

d'Oracle

wonderfulname wrote: »

Opinions count for nothing, any marking/writing other that the right numbers in the right boxes on the ballot paper will make it invalid or a spoilt vote.

Actually the Opinion of the counter or Returning Officer count for a lot.

joeybloggs

Twitter reports saying the gap between Fitzgerald and Roche has increased to 11

bath handle

The usual approach is to allow the vote if the order of preference is clear. This occurs in every general election. There are always constituencies where a seat is decided by a small number of votes. Barrister turn up With books on electoral law.

hdowney

joeybloggs wrote: »

Twitter reports saying the gap between Fitzgerald and Roche has increased to 11

which makes me :D:D

SB-08

Joe Behan has said his tally man informed him that his transfers are generally not going to FF but rather Stephen Donnelly and considering he has over 4,000 votes it's looking good for Donnelly!

Sala

Just on the news, the recheck/recount made no difference and unless he can challenge it again roche is eliminated!!

hdowney

Sala wrote: »

Just on the news, the recheck/recount made no difference and unless he can challenge it again roche is eliminated!!

if it was just a recheck - which at the moment it seems like it was, then roche is entitled to go to the returning officer and complain. he asked for a full recount which would b starting from scratch and counting through again, where as the recheck will continue at the 13th count where he got kicked out. so he is well within his rights to push the issue and wouldn't surprise me if he did :mad:

hatrickpatrick

Can someone explain to me very clearly and distinctly, how is it POSSIBLE that after three days of counting there is still a constituency with NO confirmed TDs? O_o

Sala

hdowney wrote: »

if it was just a recheck - which at the moment it seems like it was, then roche is entitled to go to the returning officer and complain. he asked for a full recount which would b starting from scratch and counting through again, where as the recheck will continue at the 13th count where he got kicked out. so he is well within his rights to push the issue and wouldn't surprise me if he did :mad:

I thought they said they weren't sure if it was a recheck or full recount? Either way I hope the legal advice he gets is to concede defeat and go home

hdowney

Sala wrote: »

I thought they said they weren't sure if it was a recheck or full recount? Either way I hope the legal advice he gets is to concede defeat and go home

what i have been hearing was it was JUST a recheck, which makes him entitled to still seek the full recount he was after.

i wonder if his legal advisers said to him to just pack up and go home would he listen to them, or has he gotten so used to being in power and whatnot that he will cling on, making life difficult for everyone else in the process, till the last possible second?

Mushy

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Can someone explain to me very clearly and distinctly, how is it POSSIBLE that after three days of counting there is still a constituency with NO confirmed TDs? O_o

24 people running and first was nowhere near the quota. Transfers were minimal!

Bullseye1

Is it possible that all five TDs might be elected without reaching the quota?

peasant

Mushy wrote: »

24 people running and first was nowhere near the quota. Transfers were minimal!

That and Dick being a dick

hdowney

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Is it possible that all five TDs might be elected without reaching the quota?

i would say if we get through the process completely then certainly 1 or two candidates should reach the quota, but it is highly likely that all five will not, in which case it will be down to who has the most votes when all necessary candidates have been eliminated.

all candidates didn't reach the quota in 2007 if i remember correctly

Sala

From Twitter:


BREAKING: FitzGerald withdraws from #ge11 & cedes his votes to Roche. Says Dick has a better chance of taking last seat


Anyone can verify this??

hdowney

Sala wrote: »

From Twitter:


BREAKING: FitzGerald withdraws from #ge11 & cedes his votes to Roche. Says Dick has a better chance of taking last seat


Anyone can verify this??

not on my twitter. checking now

joeybloggs

Just got this from twitter.

BREAKING: FitzGerald withdraws from #ge11 & cedes his votes to Roche. Says Dick has a better chance of taking last seat

Stand by for more info.

hdowney

still not getting this on any of my feeds. who is it breaking news from exactly?

the groutch

Sala wrote: »

From Twitter:


BREAKING: FitzGerald withdraws from #ge11 & cedes his votes to Roche. Says Dick has a better chance of taking last seat

Anyone can verify this??

are candidates even allowed to do that?

Bullseye1

For me this is a disgrace. The south of the county has no representatives and Fitzgerald bowing down to Roche is sickening.

hdowney

well no i don't think so. so his votes wouldn't just go straight to dick, if peoples preferences after pat were for dick then they would transfer, like anyone elses would. but he cannot just 'give' them to him

levi

Well I'd say what'll happen is he'll concede and will therefore be eliminated - his votes will presumably be redistributed as normal... Depends where they are on the recount I assume?

Bullseye1

He is 3 votes ahead yet he concedes?

joeybloggs

Got it from here. I'm dubious myself, i'd wait for other reports.

http://twitter.com/walkcork

hdowney

all candidates agents requested back into the centre in wicklow count. possibly worrying development?!?

Sala

hdowney wrote: »

all candidates agents requested back into the centre in wicklow count. possibly worrying development?!?

Also from twitter "Candidates now being informed that the 700 or so spoilt votes from the original Sat count are now going to be relooked at "

Maybe some of that went through are the same as some that are spoiled? ie with the no. in wrong box

ebbsy

They have run out of tea and digestive biscuits.

gcgirl

I'm truely sick as a parot

bmaxi

Roche can only get votes that are transferred to him. I can only assume it's Fitzgerald's transfers to other candidates they want to eliminate. Is there a precedent for this?
Jesus, are we going to need U.N. observers at our elections in future?

ebbsy

Sala wrote: »

Also from twitter "Candidates now being informed that the 700 or so spoilt votes from the original Sat count are now going to be relooked at "

Maybe some of that went through are the same as some that are spoiled? ie with the no. in wrong box

Wrong box ? D'ont have 24 candidates then.

the groutch

ebbsy wrote: »

Wrong box ? D'ont have 24 candidates then.

so you don't want democracy then?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

tadcan

bmaxi wrote: »

Jesus, are we going to need U.N. observers at our elections in future?

Or maybe we can ask the cuban government, since they offered to count the florida ballot papers as well. :pac:

joeybloggs

I doubt Fitzgerald would concede then if there's still 700 spoilt votes to play around with.

Apparently Donnelly could gain well from them, since many put there preference in the party symbol box.

ebbsy

the groutch wrote: »

so you don't want democracy then?

I want democracy, I dont want 16 or 17 no-hopers making a fool out of the county.

gandalf

Sounds like very dodgy goings on tbh. Why would someone go to the trouble of standing for election just to stand aside after the election has happened. Surely that is insulting in the extreme to the people who did give him a vote. It wouldn't surprise me if Roche and FF were trying a stroke here but surely at this stage that will be totally counter productive for FF?

The Wicklow count is at this stage a mismanaged farce.

gcgirl

And the returning officer is from Carlow well she has been as good as that footballer mick O'Dwyer brought in Thomas walsh

Savage Tyrant

Is it possible that Cock Roche has gone to the party and they in turn are influencing his running mate to step aside?
What a complete inept shambles all round in any case.

the groutch

ebbsy wrote: »

I want democracy, I dont want 16 or 17 no-hopers making a fool out of the county.

better than 77 fianna failures making a fool out of the country

ebbsy

Thats already happened me ould grouch.

hotmail.com

Roche isn't going out gracefully - he's a complete twit, even his running mate said he should just let it go.

ebbsy

gcgirl wrote: »

And the returning officer is from Carlow well she has been as good as that footballer mick O'Dwyer brought in Thomas walsh

We got a few good years out of Thomas.....seems to be a common thing with the Carlow people coming over the border to the garden county.......