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C&H General Election Thread
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In fairness, both in language and in reality, there is a big difference between not making specific promises, and "being open about the fact that you intend to do nothing".bythewoods wrote: »We all hate politician's false promises, but offering absolutely no solutions, ideas or even hope is hardly laudable! It's easy to be honest when you're open about the fact that you intend to do absolutely nothing!
Um, re-read those sentences. Spot the internal inconsistency / irony!bythewoods wrote: »Also, Wallace actually told people to give their #2 to Sean Connick, FF. Eh?
Connick lost his seat by the way, which is genuinely a shame. A case of a great politician in a toxic party.
Maybe Wallace told people to give their No. 2 to Connick because he too thinks that Sean is "a case of a great politician in a toxic party"?
I met and had a couple of long chats with Luke a couple of years back. I found him to be eccentric, but I'd hazard a tenner on his basic honesty and sincerity ... and on his passion.Luke Flanagan's obviously another rant. Although if I was from Roscommon I'd probably need to take the edge off somehow too.
That's €9.98 more than I'd chance on those qualities in most politicians from any hue!
He certainly hears and marches to the beat of a slightly different drum to the "mainstream". But then, there are many people in Ireland who do, who like Luke see the world slightly differently and tend to be emasculated by the political system. Maybe it's time they had a voice too. Maybe that's what democracy (as opposed to politics) is actually about.
I agree, they're the two sides of the same coin, and the sooner they merge the better, we might actually get some realistic political choice emerging in this country. I'm actually hopeful after this election about one thing, by the way ... that the Collins / Dev debate is finally fading from our political landscape. To a historian like myself, watching FG TDs take seats on FF transfers was bemusing; to a political cynic who yearns for some ray of hope in the cesspit of Irish politics, I dared to hope that I had found it.bythewoods wrote: »A FF/FG coalition would actually, on paper, be brilliant. They're both right of centre...
Unfortunately for the above aspiration that Tweedledum and Tweedledee would finally stop fighting over who broke the tricycle, and make up / merge, you're right here too. FF back in government at any level at this stage would be insupportable to the majority of the people of Ireland, and rightly so.bythewoods wrote: »Realistically though, it'd be a giant disaster. There would be public outrage, there really would. Plus, there is a need for drastic change, or at least... the perception that change is happening. It's time for FF to step aside for a bit.
I'd say that would be Enda's worse nightmare tbh.bythewoods wrote: »I had hoped for a single FG government, with a rake of independents, but there aren't even 7 indos in there who should be picked.
A minority FG government, relying on Independents? With a strong Labour leading the opposition?
Nope, he'd prefer them in with him to share the blame!
The other scenario could easily see Labour push ahead of BOTH FF and FG in the next election, and FG are well aware of that danger.
They have before, quite successfully actually.bythewoods wrote: »Perhaps though, the 2 will balance each other out.
Imho, she's deputy leader because she's a woman, and she IS a very hard worker. (Was Mary Coughlan really the second most capable person in the FF parliamentary party?!) They have some very good talent to draw on, and hopefully more elected this time from what I've seen.bythewoods wrote: »Although, Joan Burton is one of Labour's big players, which says a lot about them imo...0 -
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They won't get it. FG won't budge on that.MavisDavis wrote: »There's talk that Labour want Finance. Um, how about no?
Although I think Enda shot himself in the foot a little by demoting Bruton from the finance portfolio; ok, so he tried and failed to gain leadership. That was unfortunate. But the general consensus was that Bruton would be the best man for Finance minister.
No offence to Noonan, who I actually quite like, but I don't think he knows the economy as well as Bruton does.
I agree. But Labour aren't left-wing; they've moving towards the centre for years now. Which is a good thing imo.unknown13 wrote:We can't have a left wing party taking finance. We need Centrist party's for finance.
I would prefer to see them more willing to tell the unions to feck off, but they're certainly more moderate than the other left-wing parties in the Dáil. Joe Higgins is a hard worker, a decent man and a great public speaker, but I wouldn't let him within 5 miles of the Department of Finance!bythewoods wrote: »Also, hopefully FG will get Health. James Reilly could do wonders as the Minister there, and the fact that he's a doctor/ former IMO-president means he'll actually know that some things only work on paper. FG's full of Docs, Twomey and Varadker both studied Medicine as well, so it'll be good to see their input. (Although I know Varadker probably won't touch health!)
Agree that Riley would be best man for Health. Personally I shudder at the thought of Varadkar getting any high profile job. That man is probably the most arrogant, snide and downright unlikeable politician in the country right now. I don't care how good he is at his job, everytime I see his smug face I would quite like to punch it.
Yup. That's true alright.bythewoods wrote: »A FF/FG coalition would actually, on paper, be brilliant. They're both right of centre, and both have a lot of similar ideas, ideals and policies.
Realistically though, it'd be a giant disaster. There would be public outrage, there really would.
ZOMG THINK OF DA WARRRR!!!! Shur wouldn't Dev be rollin' in his grave if Paddy voted for a Blueshirt? :rolleyes:
Still to this day, in the minds of some, FG = pro treaty and FF = anti-treaty and some people will unfortunately never let that go. I'd imagine this election shows that trend slowly dying though, as randy mentioned. Which is great.
As for the possibility of a FF/FG coalition, before the whole economic debacle, I'd have been more on the side of FF than FG. But even as someone who isn't rabidly anti-FF, I would not like to have seen them in government again. They need time on the opposition benches and a good long rethink about how they conduct themselves. I don't know if Micheál Martin is the right man to reform FF and get rid of the tribal politics and corruption, but I hope he is. The young generation of upcoming FF gives me some bit of optimism, at least.
I'm glad Labour are there tbh. FG are too socially conservative, and while a single party right wing government may help our economy, it won't do any good in other areas. Labour are not the pushovers that the PDs and the Greens were; their presence in a coalition can only be a good thing. FG won't be able to steamroll over them the same way FF destroyed their coalition partners.I had hoped for a single FG government, with a rake of independents, but there aren't even 7 indos in there who should be picked.
An awful speaker, a walking PR disaster and will never live down the "haranguing" debacle on Vincent Brown.Although, Joan Burton is one of Labour's big players, which says a lot about them imo...
I don't like the woman but I do believe she knows her stuff. She's not as hopelessly incompetent as she's made out to be, she just does herself no favours with her temperment.
And I doubt she would ever become leader of the party; if Gilmore suddenly decided to step down, I'd imagine someone like Brendan Howlin stepping in. Or Ruarí Quinn may have another go.
I know you'll disagree with this, but as far as single issue candidates go, I'm glad that Ming Flanagan is in the Dáil.Also, would disagree that we got nobody inspiring.
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Programme for Government out (PDF file of it here).
Just skimming through it now, doesn't seem as bad as I was expecting, though I'm not even halfway through, and they probably hid the more controversial stuff somewhere near the end
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I'll probably give it a proper read later on.
They have said that within 12 months they should have a report about the possibility of amendments to the constitution w.r.t. same-sex marriage, blasphemy, the role of women and lowering the voting age, but they're not a priority, priority being given to parliamentary reform.
Reasonable enough, but I'm hoping they stick to their plans to investigate within the year rather than pushing them aside further.
Lots of ambitious changes being promised as well.
Will be great if they actually get this stuff done, long overdue and it's definitely the right time at the moment given how eager everyone is to see change.
Cautiously optimistic at the moment but I guess we'll have to wait and see how/if it's actually implemented.
Also lots of vague promises about "Digital Ireland", grand bitta employment opportunity for people like me >.>0 -
Programme for Government out (PDF file of it here).
Just skimming through it now, doesn't seem as bad as I was expecting, though I'm not even halfway through, and they probably hid the more controversial stuff somewhere near the end.
I'll probably give it a proper read later on.
They have said that within 12 months they should have a report about the possibility of amendments to the constitution w.r.t. same-sex marriage, blasphemy, the role of women and lowering the voting age, but they're not a priority, priority being given to parliamentary reform.
Reasonable enough, but I'm hoping they stick to their plans to investigate within the year rather than pushing them aside further.
Lots of ambitious changes being promised as well.
Will be great if they actually get this stuff done, long overdue and it's definitely the right time at the moment given how eager everyone is to see change.
Cautiously optimistic at the moment but I guess we'll have to wait and see how/if it's actually implemented.
Also lots of vague promises about "Digital Ireland", grand bitta employment opportunity for people like me >.>
Am I going to get less money?
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Only skimmed it too ... some pretty good stuff in there, some very broad aspirational stuff, a few bits that would worry me. Very short on the details of "how" in places.
Tbh, I would have liked to see it laid out something like:
1. 5-7 broad aspirational goals (1 page)
2. In the next year we will: a number of clear measures / goals with full *details* of how attached (3-5 pages)
3. In the following year we will: again, a number of clear measures / goals, with a reasonable level of detail as to the how (3-5 pages)
4. In the remainder of our term of office we will: broader brush-strokes, *some* sense of how ...
That said, they only had a few days, and it's not a bad beginning. There does seem to be a strong focus on trying to get people back to work, which didn't really seem to be a priority with FF while they concentrated on saving their buddies in the banks.
A few bits which caught my eye, not nec. because they're the most important, but for all sorts of reasons of my own ...
... "Accelerate capital works that are ‘shovel ready’ and labour intensive including schools and secondary roads." I know it costs money, and that's scarce, but (a) it creates jobs (and saves money elsewhere in Social Welfare) and (b) it makes sense to undertake capital works at a time when construction costs are lower than they have been in a decade plus.
... A commitment to developing the digital games industry. This is a huge market worldwide, it's not going to disappear, it's clean industry, the UK has focussed on it and is punching well above its weight, no reason why Ireland can't too.
... A strong emphasis on R&D
... "We will legislate to end upward only rent reviews for existing leases." Badly needed.
... "We will seek to capture some public good from NAMA by identifying buildings that have no commercial potential, and which might be suitable as local facilities for art and culture". I like, but I think they should also look at NAMA holdings in conjunction with their aspirations in the Social Housing area.
Lots of good intentions on reform of political processes, wonder how much will actually happen.
I wonder as well about costings, and about how they are going to implement this very ambitious work programme and at the same time implement massive cuts in public service numbers.
Seemed to me that they hid the vaguer stuff towards the end tbh.Just skimming through it now, doesn't seem as bad as I was expecting, though I'm not even halfway through, and they probably hid the more controversial stuff somewhere near the end.0 -
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Don't have time to read that all in detail- Thanks for the link though Pygmalion!
Skimmed through it all, and stopped to properly look through the 7 pages on the Health system.
Looks like there are going to be some radical changes! I'm nervously excited about the prospect of Universal Health Insurance. I'm not convinced it's going to be a good thing just yet, but it certainly does have the potential to be.
The fact that Mental Health services are to be reformed, as FG promised, and as they hammered home during the lead up to the election, is simply brilliant. I'd strongly consider going into an area of Medicine with a link to mental health, and it's definitely true that there's a massive stigma associated with it, and that it's shunned quite a lot in relation to other areas. Even simple things like better training in the area for GPs could make a huge difference, so I am delighted about the amount of focus they've put on this whole thing.
Other areas close to my med-studenty heart are Neurology and Geriatrics, so the mention of an Alzheimer's awareness programme is also great news. Something which effects so many older people, would be great for a bit more focus to be given to it.
Other bits and pieces that stood out to me:
- Great news.We will legislate to regulate stem cell researchWe acknowledge the recent ruling of the European Court of Human Rights subsequent to the established ruling of the Irish Supreme Court on the X-case. We will establish an expert group to address this issue, drawing on appropriate medical and legal expertise with a view to making recommendations to Government on how this matter should be properly addressed.
For anyone who doesn't know, they're basically talking about the right to an abortion if the mother's life is at risk because of that pregnancy, including the risk of suicide. What they said is very wishy washy, and the fact that they didn't actually mention the word "abortion" says a lot. I know it's a very touchy subject, but it's a huge thing like, so it'd be great if there was some work done on the whole abortion thing in Ireland.
Also, free primary care! They're going to try and employ huge numbers of new GPs and increase training places. Good news! Although, I don't see myself going down that path.
It's something that caught a lot of people's attention, but it'll be years before it's implemented, seeing as they're phasing it in, firstly for people with Long Term Illnesses, on the LTI drug scheme, and then to people on the HTDS. Whatever about free hospital care and universal health insurance, I think free GP visits (within reason) would be a great thing... provided GPs don't end up making a huge financial loss out of it.
Anyway. TLDR: I
Health. 0 -
We will legislate to regulate stem cell research.
What does this actually mean when they say "regulate"?
That to me sounds like they're clamping down on it, but the wording is ambiguous so I could be wrong.
I know FG are completely against embryonic stem cell research; I suspect any hopes of advancement in that field will not come to fruition under a FG government. I assumed they had no problem with adult stem cell research, but with this "regulation" they speak of I'm not too sure. 0 -
KnifeWRENCH wrote: »What does this actually mean when they say "regulate"? That to me sounds like they're clamping down on it, but the wording is ambiguous so I could be wrong.
I know FG are completely against embryonic stem cell research; I suspect any hopes of advancement in that field will not come to fruition under a FG government. I assumed they had no problem with adult stem cell research, but with this "regulation" they speak of I'm not too sure.
Actually, when I first skimmed through it I thought it was a positive thing, moreso that they would allow it as opposed to preventing even adult stem cell research.
Someone else just pointed out to me on twitter the same thing you did; it's incredibly ambiguous, and could actually mean the very opposite of what I originally thought. That's pretty much the case for so much in the document! They touch on topics, but don't actually say what exactly they plan to do about them.
AFAIK, it's legal to currently import stem cells for use in research, yeah? Incredibly bad news if they try and crack down on that.
Let's hope for the best anyway.0 -
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