Gardai probe girl's taxi ordeal over 50 cent

squonk

Pope, with respect is seems you've had a relatively quiet and hassle free time of it when taking taxis, judging by your earlier comment that you had two experiences where fair play wasn't involved. That's a good thing to hear. I, on the other hand, have had several incidents over the years. Not all were taxis driven by foreign nationals. some were Irish drivers. The vast majority were incidents relating to foreign nationals however. I have taken taxis driven by black people. One of the last recently was very positive and I was delighted. My expectation however is that I will get taken for a ride in these situations. I take taxis several times a week and my experiences are broadly positive, especially since I moved to Galway.

You're a bit like the Green Party really Pope, lots of great pie int he sky ideas but at the end of the day, when push comes to shove and reality is involved, theory doesn't directly apply.

celtictiger

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

I thought I was quite clear, if she discriminates based on race, then her behaviour is racist.

If there's nothing wrong with racist behaviour, why is the word so abhorrent?

Thats the same as comparing her to the KKK (who the term racist should be saved for) - thru no fault of her own she ends up a racist.

PopeBuckfastXVI

squonk wrote: »

Pope, with respect is seems you've had a relatively quiet and hassle free time of it when taking taxis, judging by your earlier comment that you had two experiences where fair play wasn't involved. That's a good thing to hear. I, on the other hand, have had several incidents over the years. Not all were taxis driven by foreign nationals. some were Irish drivers. The vast majority were incidents relating to foreign nationals however. I have taken taxis driven by black people. One of the last recently was very positive and I was delighted. My expectation however is that I will get taken for a ride in these situations. I take taxis several times a week and my experiences are broadly positive, especially since I moved to Galway.

You're a bit like the Green Party really Pope, lots of great pie int he sky ideas but at the end of the day, when push comes to shove and reality is involved, theory doesn't directly apply.

No, I apply my theory that I take individuals as they come daily.

celtictiger wrote: »

Thats the same as comparing her to the KKK (who the term racist should be saved for) - thru no fault of her own she ends up a racist.

A word means what it means, I thought it was the PC Brigade that was trying to do away with the English language...

inisboffin

celtictiger wrote: »

Thats the same as comparing her to the KKK (who the term racist should be saved for) - thru no fault of her own she ends up a racist.

Must be awful to 'end up racist'. :rolleyes:

inisboffin

squonk wrote: »

Pope, with respect is seems you've had a relatively quiet and hassle free time of it when taking taxis, judging by your earlier comment that you had two experiences where fair play wasn't involved. That's a good thing to hear. I, on the other hand, have had several incidents over the years. Not all were taxis driven by foreign nationals. some were Irish drivers. The vast majority were incidents relating to foreign nationals however. I have taken taxis driven by black people. One of the last recently was very positive and I was delighted. My expectation however is that I will get taken for a ride in these situations. I take taxis several times a week and my experiences are broadly positive, especially since I moved to Galway.

You're a bit like the Green Party really Pope, lots of great pie int he sky ideas but at the end of the day, when push comes to shove and reality is involved, theory doesn't directly apply.

There is of course some understandable factor in someone wanting NOT to have a similar bad experience. I made an analogy earlier about men and women, and let's use that. Girl has an unpleasant experience with obnoxious man on Quay St. It happens a few times, 4 out of 5 times they are Cork men...but she refuses to talk to men on Quay St any more. Are all men on Quay St a**holes? No. Are all Cork men on Quay St a**holes? Of course not, but even if she targeted just the Cork men to avoid, though illogical, it would make a tiny bit more warped sense.

An English guy could be driving the taxi, and lose a fare due to racism. In 10 years time it is our nations black children of today that will be treated like s*it if this thinking continues.

squonk

So what's the solution? Lets assume you have to take taxis regularly. You may not always be in a position to be able to ring ahead for a taxi and must take whets available. You don't want to get ripped off but you have in the past by some nationalities who you know are more likely to either not know where they are going or not listen to you if you try to help them pick a good route. What is your solution to this then? Please tell me because if, by your definition, people who decide to choose based on these criteria are racist, then you obviously have a workable, practical solution, no?

Idealism is a good thing, though it's not always practical.

PopeBuckfastXVI

squonk wrote: »

So what's the solution? Lets assume you have to take taxis regularly. You may not always be in a position to be able to ring ahead for a taxi and must take whets available. You don't want to get ripped off but you have in the past by some nationalities who you know are more likely to either not know where they are going or not listen to you if you try to help them pick a good route. What is your solution to this then? Please tell me because if, by your definition, people who decide to choose based on these criteria are racist, then you obviously have a workable, practical solution, no?

Idealism is a good thing, though it's not always practical.

You don't *know* any such thing, that's where your proposition breaks down into a logical fallacy. You are assuming that which you are trying to prove, it is a fallacy called 'begging the question', if you care to look it up.

You assume that most <insert colour/nationality> people will rip you off, and this proves that there is a problem that most <insert colour/nationality> people will rip you off.

I'm stating there's no such problem, and *even if there was* to discriminate based on skin colour is still racist.

So here's your 'solution': you acknowledge that your behaviour is racist, and move on with your life, and I'll jump into the taxi that you refuse, and I'll be at home in bed all the quicker.

celtictiger

inisboffin wrote: »

You've lost me..

So tell me how this girl can identify a foreign national in order to not get in the car. Were you ever passing the queue at Liosbán for immigration. Foreign nationals come in all shades. So do Europeans, Americans, Canadians, English, Irish..etc

You can't spot an American a mile away?

gbee

inisboffin wrote: »

In 10 years time it is our nations black children of today that will be treated like s*it if this thinking continues.

As mentioned in my reply to similar a few posts back, this won't happen because your children as future taxi drivers will be as native as their clients and they'll have grown up with them.

However, if you teach the same children to behave the same way as many of their parents do today, then this thinking will never change.

celtictiger

inisboffin wrote: »

Must be awful to 'end up racist'. :rolleyes:

I would expect it to be awful to be incorrectly called a racist.

PopeBuckfastXVI

celtictiger wrote: »

I would expect it to be awful to be incorrectly called a racist.

I fully agree.

yeehaw

Shtealin' our jobs and our wimmin...blackguards the lot of them.

celtictiger

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

A word means what it means, I thought it was the PC Brigade that was trying to do away with the English language...

People use the word to fit their own requirents......I could easily argue that the use of affirmative action is racist.

squonk

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

You don't *know* any such thing, that's where your proposition breaks down into a logical fallacy. You are assuming that which you are trying to prove, it is a fallacy called 'begging the question', if you care to look it up.

You assume that most <insert colour/nationality> people will rip you off, and this proves that there is a problem that most <insert colour/nationality> people will rip you off.

I'm stating there's no such problem, and *even if there was* to discriminate based on skin colour is still racist.

So here's your 'solution': you acknowledge that your behaviour is racist, and move on with your life, and I'll jump into the taxi that you refuse, and I'll be at home in bed all the quicker.

so there's no problem and every taxi driver is as pure as the driven snow and is going to give you fair treatment?

You're living in cloud cuckoo land. Put it this way, you're walking across a landing with wood paneling on the floor. Half way across there's an area where you've fallen through a panel in the past and injured yourself. Other people have had similar experiences and the panel is changed frequently. sometimes I'd OK to cross it but sometimes you're guaranteed to fall through. The other panels bar this have the same problem but far less frequently.

Now, my question to you is, you're crossing the hallway. You cross OK until you come to the panel that's been a frequent issue in the past. Do you step over it and avoid the chance you'll fall through or step on it and take that chance? Which is the option that will protect yourself the most?

The point is that somewhere there is an issue with that panel. It needs some work. Once the problem is rectified then you can cross knowing you don't really need to worry too much about panels going because it's infrequent. Looking out for one's welfare either health-wise or economically is not racist. Like any service, my money will go to the entity who can meet my needs the best. if a company or idividuals have proved themselves not up to the job int he past then they don't get my money by default. If employees of said company are generally competent and provide a good service they may get overlooked as they are tarred by association with that company. This behavior takes place in business and the real world every day. Trying to pidgeon hole this into labels is childish and idealistic.

I don't always have a choice who I travel with. I take each on their merits and if the level of service exhibited by some categories of drivers does indeed improve over time I'll be very happy to change my view but at the end of the day, the money is of more use to me in my pocket than theirs and I don't earn enough to throw it away on scammers.

PopeBuckfastXVI

You're avoiding every panel, everywhere in the world, that's the same colour as the one you fell through.

Smart.

Edit: I also shouldn't need to point out that we are actually talking about human beings, not manufactured implements.

I don't understand what your problem is, I'm not asking you to change your behaviour, it's your loss.

squonk

Does my post mention colours of panel? Read it again.

PopeBuckfastXVI

squonk wrote: »

Does my post mention colours of panel? Read it again.

No, and that's why your bad analogy is bad.

yeehaw

For the record, I would like to state that every taxi driver I have ever encountered has been a complete ****, and skin colour doesn't come into it.

Ficheall

squonk wrote: »

Put it this way, you're walking across a landing with wood paneling on the floor. Half way across there's an area where you've fallen through a panel in the past and injured yourself. Other people have had similar experiences and the panel is changed frequently. sometimes I'd OK to cross it but sometimes you're guaranteed to fall through. The other panels bar this have the same problem but far less frequently.

Perhaps people walk all over said panel because it's easiest to do so?
Perhaps said panel isn't offered any support by the neighbouring panels.
What colour were the carpenters you hired to build the landing?
You may need to lose some weight.

mikegalway

I don't know what all the fuss is about. It was a cultural misunderstanding. He asked her if she wanted to drive around a bit and sing along to the new 50 Cent album.

squonk

Pope, you're implying that those of us who won't get into a taxi driven by someone who's black given we have a choice holds everywhere, in any other country or situation. While I can't speak for anybody else who holds the same view, I will say that for myself I'd have no problem anywhere else, any other country, place or time.

The problem here is that there is a high proportion of chancers here who are happy to rip off clients given the chance. While that may be true elsewhere I would revert to taking the situation elsewhere as I find it and learn from that.

It's easy to go around throwing labels on people. I come back to saying it again, I want to get home for good value and without hassle. Now perhaps there is a cultural difference. I'd accept that but it's my money and my right to choose. My choices are made for quality of life and economic reasons.

You're entitled to your opinion as am I.

TerrorFirmer

Actually I believe Squonks analogy to be perfectly valid.

It's basically a matter of simple psychology. Conditioning.

If one person gets ten taxis with black drivers, and has a problem with say, a number of them far higher relative to using local or eastern european drivers, it is not exactly racist to develop a dislike for said drivers based on experience, however random, unfair or unlikely it may be. It's human nature.

I myself, have taken hundreds of cabs, and to be perfectly frank, the only issues I have ever had were with black drivers, ranging from short change, overcharge, and in one instance, a particular driver trying to break down my front door after my girlfriend refused to pay an outrageous fare of 40 euro from Eyre Square to Oranmore. Is that reflective of black people in general the world over? Hardly. It is reflective of black people in Ireland? I don't believe so. Does it speak for every black taxi driver in Ireland? Of course not. But does it give me the right to save myself potential hassle based on past experiences and decide to avoid black taxi drivers? Absolutely, yes it does.

In 10 years time it is our nations black children of today that will be treated like s*it if this thinking continues.

Not at all, there is a marked difference between black people integrated into the native culture and those who have recently immigrated. I would and have had absolutely zero problem getting a cab with a black driver in England or the States, where the divide between black and white, generally speaking, is literally the color alone.

Fuinseog

dilallio wrote: »

I always pick my taxi driver based on the colour of his skin.

Getting a black taxi driver is the only way to avoid a conversation about black taxi drivers.

you get a taxi from the driver you feel comfortable with. the advantage of the black driver is they very often tend not to talk, but just sit there with a pus and sometimes that isn't so bad.

Fuinseog

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

I thought I was quite clear, if she discriminates based on race, then her behaviour is racist.

If there's nothing wrong with racist behaviour, why is the word so abhorrent?

its not really race, but more nationality. Nigerians are poorly regarded in Africa. south africans, who are black tend to be polite and chatty. they are easy to tell apart just like we can tell certain europeans apart.

inisboffin

gbee wrote: »

As mentioned in my reply to similar a few posts back, this won't happen because your children as future taxi drivers will be as native as their clients and they'll have grown up with them.

However, if you teach the same children to behave the same way as many of their parents do today, then this thinking will never change.

But this has very little to do with the fact some people people judge ALL BLACK PEOPLE the same, regardless of where they are from, based on colour alone and blind to whether they ARE Irish or African (it's a continent not a country in case you didn't know) or Europe.

And please don't tell me racism in parents doesn't rub off on kids. No matter how 'integrated' thes black kids become, there will still be white kids who don't get black taxis because their parents didn't!

Fuinseog

while some of them are interested in integration other are not. some of them have nothing but disdain but for the honkeys that inhabit this isle.
Europeans screwed them over in the 19th century and now they are here to get what they think we owe them.

nobody is willing to see them as normal people. they are either beyond approach or condemned. i would not get into a taxi with a scumbag of any race. if he started shouting I wouldn't take it, yet if he is black I am supposed to adopt a different attitude.

inisboffin

Fuinseog wrote: »

its not really race, but more nationality. Nigerians are poorly regarded in Africa. south africans, who are black tend to be polite and chatty. they are easy to tell apart just like we can tell certain europeans apart.

This point came up in another debate. Were it true it might further the discussion (see my point about Cork and Kerry). But it is simply NOT that accurate! There are 4th generation black Brazillians, black English drivers etc driving. And as for the European version? Again you may get it right the odd time, but plenty of blonde Spainiards, red headed Swedes and darker skinned Connemara lads out there!

inisboffin

Why is there such a frequent connection between poor use of English and latent racism?:rolleyes:

inisboffin

Fuinseog wrote: »

its not really race, but more nationality. Nigerians are poorly regarded in Africa. south africans, who are black tend to be polite and chatty. they are easy to tell apart

Funny. My South African buddy has curly blonde hair, and a few freckles, from being a surfer dude.

biko

We'll end it here, hope the girl wasn't too traumatised by the experience.