What do you think is the reason for our high rate of obesity?

slum dog

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

A wild vegetarian spouting nonsense appears!:pac:

What are these hormones in meat you speak of? If anything there are less hormones in meat now than there were when we primarily consumed beef from uncastrated bulls, lots n lots of testosterone in them! Also beef in the EU is banned from hormone treatment.

care to back it up?

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Beef and lamb in Ireland is top-quality nutritious food.

what the fcuk does that mean?

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

But I'll give you a chance to redeem yourself, back up any of what you said with a scientific paper and I'll give you a virtual cookie.

Sapsorrow

Way hey you're back! I admit, I've been naughty playing with the misinformed in your absence

El_Dangeroso

joewicklow wrote: »

I reckon a lot of your weight loss is down to the calories you are burning hitting that full stop button on your keyboard. /joke.

Damn you Joe, you just made me spew coffee on my laptop!

El_Dangeroso

Sapsorrow wrote: »

Way hey you're back! I admit, I've been naughty playing with the misinformed in your absence

Fun, isn't it?

Though I do miss a higher class of debater, where's corkcomp gone?

Sapsorrow

Aw I have to go out now.. just when it was getting good again! Have fun

Sapsorrow

Ya I miss Corkcomp's contributions too, he gave everyone a good run for their money. Moonage was cool too.

El_Dangeroso

slum dog wrote: »

care to back it up?

YOU made the assertion that meat was full of harmful hormones, the burden of proof is on YOU to back that up. But you haven't, because you can't. I'm not going to do your research for you. Go eat some soy, no hormone disrupters in that, no sir..

slum dog

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

YOU made the assertion that meat was full of harmful hormones, the burden of proof is on YOU to back that up. But you haven't, because you can't. I'm not going to do your research for you. Go eat some soy, no hormone disrupters in that, no sir..

why do you keep signing out for? do you have to sign in under another username to back up your posts? i dont eat soy as a matter of fact. but its clear im debating with a juvenile and its not worth continuing this disucssion with you because i will say something that will get me banned
something worse than 'go eat some soy'.

El_Dangeroso

slum dog wrote: »

why do you keep signing out for? do you have to sign in under another username to back up your posts? i dont eat soy as a matter of fact. but its clear im debating with a juvenile and its not worth continuing this disucssion with you because i will say something that will get me banned
something worse than 'go eat some soy'.

Yes, sapsorrow and I are the same person! :pac:

It's not worth continuing the discussion because you can't back up anything you say. Meat is healthy, milk is healthy and you won't find good evidence to the contrary.

Run along now..

slum dog

milk is not healthy. milk is tasty but not healthy. your confusing both and your emotionally attached to it from childhood, the reason why your so defensive.
humans are the only species that continue to drink milk into adolecence. milk is intended for infants. even cows stop drinking milk when they grow.
theres enough adequate calcium in green leafy vegetables for humans.

cows milk is one of the reasons why obeseity is increasing...you dont need to be a nutrinionist to figure that one out

let me guess whats next
'oh but my cat and dog drink cows milk...'
'hmm that should make it alright then'

El_Dangeroso

slum dog wrote: »

milk is not healthy. milk is tasty but not healthy. your confusing both and your emotionally attached to it from childhood, the reason why your so defensive.
humans are the only species that continue to drink milk into adolecence. milk is intended for infants. even cows stop drinking milk when they grow.
theres enough adequate calcium in green leafy vegetables for humans.

cows milk is one of the reasons why obeseity is increasing...you dont need to be a nutrinionist to figure that one out

let me guess whats next
'oh but my cat and dog drink cows milk...'
'hmm that should make it alright then'

Humans are the only species that do a lot of things, that proves nothing.

Back it up with some evidence or concede that you are talking out of your hat. There is no magical third option.

rocky

slum dog wrote: »

cows milk is one of the reasons why obeseity is increasing...you dont need to be a nutrinionist to figure that one out

http://www.ajcn.org/content/early/2010/09/01/ajcn.2010.29355.abstract

Conclusion: Our study suggests that both higher dairy calcium intake and increased serum vitamin D are related to greater diet-induced weight loss.

There is no relationship between intake of dairy products and BMI in Japanese women.

In U.S. men, there is no relationship between an increase in dairy consumption and long-term weight gain.

In perimenopausal women, high intakes of dairy products are actually inversely associated with weight gain (i.e, higher dairy product intakes are associated with less weight gain).

Increased intake of dairy products does not affect body composition.

Increased intake of dairy products does not impair weight loss.

Increased intake of dairy products does not affect changes in fat mass.

In a 6-month follow-up to this study, high dairy product intake predicted lower levels of fat mass.

In a 9-month study, increased intake of dairy products did not affect weight maintenance, but the high dairy group exhibited evidence of greater fat oxidation.

slum dog

its based on my opinion which was sought from the op. ive made myself quite clear and every ones entitled to their opinion, but if you cant see how obvious that is then i would say your intellectually challenged. i told you i wasnt going to debate with you any further because your keen on throwing insults. so run along now...

slum dog

here this kid made a fascinating documentary on youtube about cows milk.
he makes more sense than all you guys put together.

El_Dangeroso

slum dog wrote: »

its based on my opinion which was sought from the op. ive made myself quite clear and every ones entitled to their opinion, but if you cant see how obvious that is then i would say your intellectually challenged. i told you i wasnt going to debate with you any further because your keen on throwing insults. so run along now...

Your opinion I don't have a problem with, it's when you try and pass off your opinion as fact when it's just made-up nonsense that is going to cause people to ask you to provide evidence. That's the way we roll around here, if you don't like it you know where the door is.

Oh and it's 'you're intellectually challenged'. :cool:

rocky

Hmm 9 scientific studies vs a kid with lactose intolerance...

El_Dangeroso

slum dog wrote: »

here this kid made a fascinating documentary on youtube about cows milk.
he makes more sense than all you guys put together.

OMG a documentary on Youtube made by a 14 year old!! This changes everything, what with youtube's rigourous peer-review process and all, I mean they don't let anyone put just anything up there do they?:P

Here, let me help you out:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed

http://scholar.google.com/

Go find me a scientific paper that shows that milk is harmful to health. Forgive me if I don't hold my breath.

slum dog

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Your opinion I don't have a problem with,

ok

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

it's when you try and pass off your opinion as fact

heres where i got lost

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

when it's just made-up nonsense

right, you dont have a problem with my made up nonsense opinion?

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

that is going to cause people to ask you to provide evidence. That's the way we roll around here, if you don't like it you know where the door is.

Oh and it's 'you're intellectually challenged'. :cool:

the only thing that doesnt make sense around here is you and your possie.

arguing with you is like arguing with a child but i will try and make my opinion heard for the sake of common sense since you've successfully forced anyone that doesnt follow a low carb high protein diet (lol) off this thread. it seems like your a couple of decades behind the rest of the world or is that you're?

El_Dangeroso

slum dog wrote: »

ok

heres where i got lost

right, you dont have a problem with my made up nonsense opinion?

the only thing that doesnt make sense around here is you and your possie.

arguing with you is like arguing with a child but i will try and make my opinion heard for the sake of common sense since you've successfully forced anyone that doesnt follow a low carb high protein diet (lol) off this thread. it seems like your a couple of decades behind the rest of the world or is that you're?

Yep, a child that needs evidence to be provided to back up an assertion. I find it so funny that you keep sounding like a toddler having a tantrum as you throw the ad hominems around. It's really fun to watch I have to say.

I can force people off threads? :eek: Awesome, those Jedi mind powers are coming along nicely.:cool:

I don't follow a low carb high protein diet actually, if you actually spent some time on this forum rather than wading in all guns blazing you'd know that. Shame, you might have actually learnt something.

pecker1992

fatmammycat wrote: »

Oh, I didn't realise we had to offer our diets.

I can give you an example- yesterday.

Up 6:30, three egg omelette with diced chilli, bell peppers, splash of tabasco mushrooms and grated cheese on top- folded then to allow gooey perfection. Black coffee x2

Snack-@ 11- kiwi and a handful of brasil nuts.

Lunch- @1:30 -crab and avocado salad with courgette and chillis and lime juice.

Snack @ 4-Finger of kitkat, wedge of port salut, cup of raspberry tea.

Dinner 6:30- two wild salmon darns cubed and stirfried with asparagus, sprouts (diced, delicious this way, almost nutty in flavour) mushrooms, peppers, chilli and bean shoots, spalsh of dark soy sauce. Glass of milk with dinner.

Yogurt at around nine, in bed by 10:30.


It might not be a perfect diet, but it seems to keep me lean and energised. I'm 38, 5'10 and 145 pounds.


EDIT: Slumdog, why do you keep bringing up Atkins? I've never read his book or followed his programme. On what are you basing your theory that eating low carb will result in long term health damage? Do you think my diet looks particularly poor?

why is your diet so high in fat..perhaps because its a low carb diet then.....notice that because you cut one that you keep lean..but if you had both maybe that wouldnt be so//your body uses fat as energy rather than carbs...in sayng that mines slightly the opposite lower in fat & higher in carbs..and i too am lean...this 2 examples show that cutting either staple is sufficient for weight loss/ management...and furthermore now i can safely say that like ive already stated..obesity in ireland has 3 factors...fat overload carb overload & lack of exercise...now would anyone care to argue that fact with me??? or cna we all agree that no 1 thing is to blame

slum dog wrote: »

milk is not healthy. milk is tasty but not healthy. your confusing both and your emotionally attached to it from childhood, the reason why your so defensive.
humans are the only species that continue to drink milk into adolecence. milk is intended for infants. even cows stop drinking milk when they grow.
theres enough adequate calcium in green leafy vegetables for humans.

cows milk is one of the reasons why obeseity is increasing...you dont need to be a nutrinionist to figure that one out

let me guess whats next
'oh but my cat and dog drink cows milk...'
'hmm that should make it alright then'

dude ive even been arguing with this bunch the last 2 days...id be the last one to jump to their defense....too much milks not good of course....but too much of anything isnt good...but even i gotta say that above statement is garbage...seriously now look into basic nutrition

Ice.

rocky wrote: »

'The China Study' book which was debunked thoroughly.

By whom? Denise Minger? Hardly. The Weston A Price Foundation and it's proxies have been trying for years to discredit it but have failed.

If people disagree with it then fair enough...produce a more comprehensive study then.

Clutch that low-carb blanky a little tighter in case the high-carb boogie man gets ya! LOL.

rocky

Ice. wrote: »

By whom? Denise Minger? Hardly. The Weston A Price Foundation and it's proxies have been trying for years to discredit it but have failed.

If people disagree with it then fair enough...produce a more comprehensive study then.

Clutch that low-carb blanky a little tighter in case the high-carb boogie man gets ya! LOL.

Me, low-carb? ha! :pac:

Denise Minger and Chris Masterjohn are the 2 rebuttals I've read.

I don't disagree with the study as such (the data seems to be valid), only the book that came out of it and its conclusions. To infer from "some proportion of casein in a purified diet given to rats causes cancer (and when casein is lower the rats die [that's one novel way of avoiding cancer I guess])" that "all animal protein causes cancer" is a loooooongggg stretch...

El_Dangeroso

Ice. wrote: »

By whom? Denise Minger? Hardly. The Weston A Price Foundation and it's proxies have been trying for years to discredit it but have failed.

If people disagree with it then fair enough...produce a more comprehensive study then.

Clutch that low-carb blanky a little tighter in case the high-carb boogie man gets ya! LOL.

What issue do you have with Denise's analysis exactly? Is there a flaw in her statistics, or is the only criticism you can come up with the same as the only one that Campbell could come up with; personal attack?

She didn't fail, she owned, there is no association b/w meat and cancer or heart disease when you control for infections known to cause heart disease and cancer. Campbell tried to debate her and then ran away scared. He actually said that her analysis was wrong because you can't pull causation from correlation, ehh, duh, that was pretty much the whole premise of his book.

Sapsorrow

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Yes, sapsorrow and I are the same person! :pac:

Ba ha ha.. I wish, I could do with some of your smarts! :pac:

Catari Jaguar

Sheer and utter lack of eduaction about nutrition given in schools.

Then when people realise they're fat and want to lose weight they go to bloody Weight Watchers and are told that fat makes you fat so they buy "low fat" products like yogurts, special k, microwave dinners and cereal bars that are laden with sugar.

Also most of us are somewhat allergic to wheat, sugar and dairy yet about 75% of products on the supermarket shelves are made of these ingredients. Possibly because of the farming industry's power. The link between the "Got Milk?" ads and the farmers funding politicians in the States. Similar to the politicians and the pub owners here. Speaking of pubs, throw beer bellies and late night post booze take outs into the mix too.

Try finding a convenient on-the-go snack if you're off dairy/wheat/sugar. An orange in the Centra . If you're lucky.

Sapsorrow

Hmmm regarding the china study some people might like to listen to this before making yer minds up:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/12/11/chris-masterjohn-criticism-of-the-china-study.aspx

Just listened to it last night, I never seem to bore of the china study saga, it's just to f*cked up!

Sapsorrow

Ice. wrote: »

By whom? Denise Minger? Hardly. The Weston A Price Foundation and it's proxies have been trying for years to discredit it but have failed.

Ahhh not another f*cking WAPF conspiracy theory :rolleyes: Go back to your X-files box set and stop spamming the forum with gossip.

Sapsorrow

rocky wrote: »

I don't disagree with the study as such (the data seems to be valid), only the book that came out of it and its conclusions. To infer from "some proportion of casein in a purified diet given to rats causes cancer (and when casein is lower the rats die [that's one novel way of avoiding cancer I guess])" that "all animal protein causes cancer" is a loooooongggg stretch...

It certainly is and it shows zero correlation between cancer and meat consumption when all the relevant confounding variables are factored in to the analysis, Campbell literally lied through his teeth to try and sell his angle on nutrition (and books). I'm surprised there aren't any laws in place to lock people like him up tbh.

Frogdog

Slum dog I've posted a reply a few pages back to your first post on this thread (I think), on the same page.

I've backed my post up (somewhat), maybe you wouldn't mind debating with me?

Ice.

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

I find it so funny that you keep sounding like a toddler having a tantrum as you throw the ad hominems around. It's really fun to watch I have to say.

Sapsorrow wrote: »

Ahhh not another f*cking WAPF conspiracy theory Go back to your X-files box set and stop spamming the forum with gossip.

Lol.

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

I don't follow a low carb high protein diet actually

Well, a previous poster did ask you to post up your diet but you still haven't done so. Might be an idea?

Sapsorrow wrote: »

Hmmm regarding the china study some people might like to listen to this before making yer minds up:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/12/11/chris-masterjohn-criticism-of-the-china-study.aspx

Just listened to it last night, I never seem to bore of the china study saga, it's just to f*cked up!

Dr. Mercola. Lol. Another snakeoil salesman. No thanks.