Planning in for a new Tesco

Insect Overlord

Clareman wrote: »

I thought the Crescent was usually very busy?

It is! Trouble is, it also dragged a huge amount of business away from the city centre.

CiaranMT

Which is what I should've also said in my post. It'll drag people away from Ennis Town Centre.

ongarboy

Clareman wrote: »

I would imagine that a lot of the shops in the current Tesco have long term leases and would have some kind of protection in place to have Tesco as the anchor tenant, the Sherwood spent big money doing their place up, I don't think they'd be happy if Tesco closed, I would say they'll downgrade to an Express until the leases run out and then close it, I think they did something similar in Tralee not too long ago

Yes, in Tralee they have two successful stores. The original town centre one was replaced with a smaller unit. (not quite as small as an Express store but still essentially a food only store) and their newer main store was built in a retail park (Manor West) on the edge of town (which is a massive store with a lot of non food items also (clothes/household goods/electrics/dvds/books etc). The last census in 2006 has Ennis with a bigger population than Tralee so if Tralee can absorb 2 Tescos with a smaller population (as well as 2 Dunnes, Lidl, Aldi, Supervalu), I don't see any reason why Tesco would shut down their Ennis town centre store even with the new out of town store.

mitresize5

just to reiterate what other posters have said.

Anyone who thinks its a good idea to have large out of town shopping centres take a walk around Limerick city centre this Saturday.

Its like a ghost town and has been destroyed by the growth of these shopping centres.

CiaranMT

ongarboy wrote: »

Yes, in Tralee they have two successful stores. The original town centre one was replaced with a smaller unit. (not quite as small as an Express store but still essentially a food only store) and their newer main store was built in a retail park (Manor West) on the edge of town (which is a massive store with a lot of non food items also (clothes/household goods/electrics/dvds/books etc). The last census in 2006 has Ennis with a bigger population than Tralee so if Tralee can absorb 2 Tescos with a smaller population (as well as 2 Dunnes, Lidl, Aldi, Supervalu), I don't see any reason why Tesco would shut down their Ennis town centre store even with the new out of town store.

Slightly different situation. People living south-east of Ennis will also be drawn to Limerick to shop. The distance is only around 20 miles between them as it is.

Tralee is the capital of Kerry, and Killarney's a good enough distance away as to be negligible enough in terms of drawing shoppers from the area who might otherwise go to Tralee. Tralee also has North Kerry and the Dingle Peninsula east of Dingle to depend on.

CptSternn

I agree that the new Tesco will have a detrimental effect on the town centre, but sure, that is capitalism. Do you really think the council will stop development of a huge money-making project?

Look at all of the flooding we had recently because houses were built on known flood planes. Look at the ghost estates around Clare. All of these things got council blessings because the people in charge knew someone or gave a brown envelope to the right person.

The council is still made up of the same people, nothing has changed since then.

I'd put money on the fact the council won't say boo about the new Tesco no matter how many people challenge it.

maiden

This went in for planning before and was refused before, on what grounds im not sure. There was major local objections for the project.

I didnt see the old plans so cant compare to the new plans but im sure there have been major changes. Mickey Lynch has paid 38000 euro for each application he sent in and he has three in. Thats nearly 120,000 euro spent trying to get planning. Factor in the cost of getting the plans done and all that goes with that, he is def in, to win this time!

Clareman

I think the last time the locals got it shut down, too many loading bays and impact to local traffic I think, before the by-pass that used to be 1 of the busiest traffic areas in town.

In regards to it being "out of town", I don't think many people walk from the current Tesco up town, I think it's a little bit too far for most people, Dunnes would have a far worse effect, I would imagine that as many people would walk up town from an "Express" store as the current 1.

Also if there's a match on in Cusack Park Tesco is impossible to get to, this must have a massive impact to their trade (not that there's many matches on in there of course)

CiaranMT

Clareman wrote: »

I think the last time the locals got it shut down, too many loading bays and impact to local traffic I think, before the by-pass that used to be 1 of the busiest traffic areas in town.

In regards to it being "out of town", I don't think many people walk from the current Tesco up town, I think it's a little bit too far for most people, Dunnes would have a far worse effect, I would imagine that as many people would walk up town from an "Express" store as the current 1.

Also if there's a match on in Cusack Park Tesco is impossible to get to, this must have a massive impact to their trade (not that there's many matches on in there of course)

Current Tesco from town is nay more than a five minute walk, it's doable. NO-ONE is going to walk from the proposed Tesco to town or vice versa.

Surely if Tesco is impossible to get into, this means their carpark is full and will have more customers into the shop? I'd say the managers in the place love when games are on at Cusack, the trade in snacks, drinks etc, and for the Sherwood would be great.

Clareman

The Sherwood usen't to open on a Sunday, don't know if it still doesn't, but most people use the car park to park for the match and go again

pmct

i think most people are missing point the centre of ennis is already dying most people i know are going to limerick because the major shops arent here so maybe it would keep people in ennis

Clareman

Ennis is a boutique shopping town don't you know

The issue facing the centre of Ennis has far more to do with rates/parking/economy than Tesco leaving to a greenfield site imvho, I think the impact of Dunnes moving out would be far more damaging than Tesco moving

ongarboy

Clareman wrote: »

Ennis is a boutique shopping town don't you know

Actually that is what I find quite charming about Ennis when I visited there last summer - the amount of independent, interesting, one off retailers as opposed to the bland repetitive chainstores other midsize towns now have like Tralee, Athlone, Newbridge etc.

Just regarding the post on the council lack of interest on proper sustainable planning of town centres, Tralee Town council voted against Marks And Spencer from opening in an out of town shopping centre so as to protect Tralee town centre from becoming a ghost town. The locals went mental (so councils can be damned if they do and damned if they don't) What did M&S do? - they opened up in an out of town centre in Killarney (Tralee's loss, Killarney's gain). Tesco have also tried to open in edge of town locations in Castleisland and Listowel and have also been refused for similar reasons (although I can't help but suspect that existing retailers/vested interests had an influence on the planning process as they were the main objectors in all cases).

Clareman

I called into Tesco in Ennis this evening, I used to always call into Tesco in Coonagh before the tunnel opened. Anyway, I decided to get a trolley, 2 trollies completely block an aisle in Ennis, the amount of broken tiles on the floor is astonishing, the roof looks like it's leaking in a lot of places and they don't seem to have enough space for all their produce, I would imagine that if Tesco were to have a town centre site they would need to knock what they have a build again, it reminds me of a pre-fab that I had in primary school.

Claregirl

You should have seen it during the really bad weather before Christmas. The girls on the checkouts were wearing gloves and some of them looked blue with the cold...!

Shapey Fiend

I've my doubts Dunnes will still be around in 20 years time. They'll get edged out by Tesco, Lidl and Aldi. When that goes there'd be nothing in the town center.

It's a 3 minute walk from the current Tesco to town. Loads of people do it. Glor used to be a popular spot to park as well before they cracked down.

Whatever happens the Limerick effect should be avoided at all cost. I don't care if some people go to Limerick to shop it's still a better situation. These big Tescos and chain shops send all their money abroad and contribute feck all to the local economy other than a few minimum wage jobs.

CiaranMT

Clareman wrote: »

I called into Tesco in Ennis this evening, I used to always call into Tesco in Coonagh before the tunnel opened. Anyway, I decided to get a trolley, 2 trollies completely block an aisle in Ennis, the amount of broken tiles on the floor is astonishing, the roof looks like it's leaking in a lot of places and they don't seem to have enough space for all their produce, I would imagine that if Tesco were to have a town centre site they would need to knock what they have a build again, it reminds me of a pre-fab that I had in primary school.

Two trolleys block almost any aisle in any supermarket, and I should know. I work in one.

Was in Ennis for 6 months last year and never really thought badly of Tesco up there. It is a bit dated I guess.

Lady Chatterton

I think the only positive thing about Tesco in Ennis is the staff, most of them have been there for years and generally speaking they are very helpful and friendly. I think even Brendan Kelly (Store Manager) has been there since the Quinnsworth days......

I'm showing my age now, anyone else remember Quinnsworth? and seeing as I'm going down memory lane, do ye remember when Knox's was a supermarket.. PS: I'm really not a fossil.............

kollegeknight

yeah i rem quinsworth.
the staff in tesco in ennis are great. i did bag packing there for the school in work in once and they were polite to all customers, ive never had a problem when i shop there.
i hope if the new tesco is built that these staff are minded.

Figerty

Is there any chance Lynches are trying to get the planning permission as they may be heading for NAMA?

This has been tried in Dublin already to improve the asset value on the books to decrease the potential hit on the loans by having a more valuable asset. Land without planning is farm land.. land with a shopping centre planned for it is an asset.

given the carrry on at the west County, and the Clare Inn and Breiffi hotel it wouldn't surprise anyone.

dr.fuzzenstein

I work in Limerick and do all my shopping there, or in Shannon.
Free parking with no hassle, all I want is my shopping.
Driving into Ennis to shop in Dunnes or Tescos is like purgatory, difficult to get to, jammed on matchdays (they don't spend money just block all the carparks and feck off to their match), hard to find a space AND having to stump up for the honor and privilege of being allowed to park there, no thanks.
I know they give a refund if you spend x amount, but I don't care, it's the principle and the hassle.
It's slow, awkward, costs more and is about as much fun as tapdancing in treacle.
Even on days off I usually head off to the Crescent, it's just great to walk from shop to shop without getting drenched or being shoved into the path of cars by other pedestrians.
And knowing that you can leave your car parked all day without glancing at your watch ever 5 minutes and worrying about a ticket.
If you think about it, you will need a lobotomy to say "Yes! I prefer parking and shopping in Ennis!"
If they build it and it has free parking people will not abandon Ennis, but some might come back from Kilrush, Shannon or Limerick and even Gort, because all these are at present better options than plunging yourself into the battle for parking spaces that currently is Ennis.
Just amazed that a town that is THIS jammed with traffic has all the shops closing down.
One might think that it's only random wasters who drive into Ennis, block all parking all day, walk around and not spend anything.
There is something fundemantally wrong with Ennis in that case.

maiden

22 objectors put in submissions, not surprised to see Jaynes off licence, Centra, The Sherwood, Mary Jo Duffy on the list!!

shannon_tek

maiden wrote: »

22 objectors put in submissions, not surprised to see The Sherwood, Mary Jo Duffy on the list!!

In saying that why are the complaining. If Tescos wanted without building a new place. im sure they could walk out of that building in the morning and still leave the poor old ppl there shops. take a hint relocate if your not happy.(hey Sherwood could get a fine big space in the new building and still maintain a large majority of their customers. good few would travel for it)

But i preferred the option of when they were going to take out Cusack Park and throw it out the Quin Rd. And have a nice big shopping center in the Heart of the Town. Would make more Sense. Yes no, maybe so? as you all most likely know you cant budge when there is a match on. Example being Sunday.

But I cant see Dunnes Fading. Like think of the north side of the town , yes im sure loads will travel to come to a massive shop. But dunnes will still prove valuable for those who live close by and not wanting to go far or are coming from the Gort road. Like i live down past West county and i would personally go to Dunnes any day(if they would just fix the static:mad: ) i can walk in and know where everything is 95% of the time. Even when they rearrange. Tesco's, even with the help of a sign i take that little bit longer. So ya it will have pros and cons but hey if it beats the 1900's building that stands im up for it. And plus would be nice to have new facilities in ennis.

Figerty

Take a look at Coonagh shopping centre to see how not to do development.

Leave the shopping in the centre of town and also Leave Cusack Park there also. A town has to have life and character.. Coonagh has neither and a new shopping centre will suck the life out of the town, like Limerick City now.

Big match days in Ennis add character and keep the pubs and shops in cash turnover. This adds colour and character, something that developers don't worry about. Moving to finge of a town destroys the centre.

shannon_tek wrote: »

In saying that why are the complaining. If Tescos wanted without building a new place. im sure they could walk out of that building in the morning and still leave the poor old ppl there shops. take a hint relocate if your not happy.(hey Sherwood could get a fine big space in the new building and still maintain a large majority of their customers. good few would travel for it)

But i preferred the option of when they were going to take out Cusack Park and throw it out the Quin Rd. And have a nice big shopping center in the Heart of the Town. Would make more Sense. Yes no, maybe so? as you all most likely know you cant budge when there is a match on. Example being Sunday.

But I cant see Dunnes Fading. Like think of the north side of the town , yes im sure loads will travel to come to a massive shop. But dunnes will still prove valuable for those who live close by and not wanting to go far or are coming from the Gort road. Like i live down past West county and i would personally go to Dunnes any day(if they would just fix the static:mad: ) i can walk in and know where everything is 95% of the time. Even when they rearrange. Tesco's, even with the help of a sign i take that little bit longer. So ya it will have pros and cons but hey if it beats the 1900's building that stands im up for it. And plus would be nice to have new facilities in ennis.

dr.fuzzenstein

Figerty wrote: »

Take a look at Coonagh shopping centre to see how not to do development.

True, Coonagh was utter madness, but also for the reason that there's another shopping center right up the road, it was complete surplus, nothing more than an exercise in laundering money and planning corruption.
It should be preserved as a monument to the kind of thinking that lead this country into the abyss of ruin.
The relocation of Tesco's is totally different, as in that an existing shop is relocating to a different location.
And about time I'd say.
The existing shop is nothing more than a painted up cowshed with inadequate parking that gets completely swamped and is generally hopeless.
And when it's busy you will queue 5 minutes to get in, drive around 5 minutes to find a space and it takes 5 minutes to drive out.
As for matches, I keep a keen eye out for when they're on, so I can avoid Ennis altogether.
Parking in Ireland can be listed by categories of terribleness:
5: General shopping
4: Mass
3: Funeral
2: Festival
1: Match
With match parking outranking them all.
People generally just let their car coast to a halt and get out leaving it abandoned wherever it happened to coast to a halt.
Whatever about Cusak Park, fine by me.
But town is something where you buy trinkets and have coffee, general shopping is rightly done in shopping centers, I can only repeat it, town centers are for lounging around and relaxing, Ennis is about as relaxing as a bath in ants.

BeeDI

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

True, Coonagh was utter madness, but also for the reason that there's another shopping center right up the road, it was complete surplus, nothing more than an exercise in laundering money and planning corruption.
It should be preserved as a monument to the kind of thinking that lead this country into the abyss of ruin.
The relocation of Tesco's is totally different, as in that an existing shop is relocating to a different location.
And about time I'd say.
The existing shop is nothing more than a painted up cowshed with inadequate parking that gets completely swamped and is generally hopeless.
And when it's busy you will queue 5 minutes to get in, drive around 5 minutes to find a space and it takes 5 minutes to drive out.
As for matches, I keep a keen eye out for when they're on, so I can avoid Ennis altogether.
Parking in Ireland can be listed by categories of terribleness:
5: General shopping
4: Mass
3: Funeral
2: Festival
1: Match
With match parking outranking them all.
People generally just let their car coast to a halt and get out leaving it abandoned wherever it happened to coast to a halt.
Whatever about Cusak Park, fine by me.
But town is something where you buy trinkets and have coffee, general shopping is rightly done in shopping centers, I can only repeat it, town centers are for lounging around and relaxing, Ennis is about as relaxing as a bath in ants.

Now, tell us what you really think:cool:

Figerty

Going to disagree with your last line. If you want to lounge around and relax then go in to Limerick City anywhere about Thomas street, and relax because there is nothing happening there.

A city Centre or town centre has to be a centre of commerce. At the moment, Ennis is a centre of commerce. It's true Roxy Records has closed and even the Record Rack has chanted it's buisness model with changes on Technology. But to add another centre to the outskirts of town would be a disaster for the town as a whole.

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

True, Coonagh was utter madness, but also for the reason that there's another shopping center right up the road, it was complete surplus, nothing more than an exercise in laundering money and planning corruption.
It should be preserved as a monument to the kind of thinking that lead this country into the abyss of ruin.
The relocation of Tesco's is totally different, as in that an existing shop is relocating to a different location.
And about time I'd say.
The existing shop is nothing more than a painted up cowshed with inadequate parking that gets completely swamped and is generally hopeless.
And when it's busy you will queue 5 minutes to get in, drive around 5 minutes to find a space and it takes 5 minutes to drive out.
As for matches, I keep a keen eye out for when they're on, so I can avoid Ennis altogether.
Parking in Ireland can be listed by categories of terribleness:
5: General shopping
4: Mass
3: Funeral
2: Festival
1: Match
With match parking outranking them all.
People generally just let their car coast to a halt and get out leaving it abandoned wherever it happened to coast to a halt.
Whatever about Cusak Park, fine by me.
But town is something where you buy trinkets and have coffee, general shopping is rightly done in shopping centers, I can only repeat it, town centers are for lounging around and relaxing, Ennis is about as relaxing as a bath in ants.

dr.fuzzenstein

Figerty wrote: »

Going to disagree with your last line. If you want to lounge around and relax then go in to Limerick City anywhere about Thomas street, and relax because there is nothing happening there.

A city Centre or town centre has to be a centre of commerce. At the moment, Ennis is a centre of commerce. It's true Roxy Records has closed and even the Record Rack has chanted it's buisness model with changes on Technology. But to add another centre to the outskirts of town would be a disaster for the town as a whole.

Well, to me a town center should be record shops, cafes, antiques, bric-a-brac and so on, absolutely, it needs that kind of thing.
Some grocery shops and things like that.
But to have all major supermarkets plus a sports pitch crammed into town along with it is just insanity.
It's the very reason that I only go into Ennis if I absolutely have to and can't avoid it.
And then I find a space and race in and out as quickly as possible.
In my hometown you go into town on a weekend or evening to relax, hang out, shop for trinkets or eat (and there's fabulous ice cream too).
It's romantic, picturesque and really quite nice.
If you then want your grocery shopping, you go to the big supermarkets on the outskirts of town, with plenty of free parking, etc...
It's amazing what proper planning can do.
This idea of cramming everything into the same 5 square meters and not provide adequate parking (CERTAINLY in the case of Cusack Park) is insanity and makes Ennis not e very nice place to be.

edit:
It's different at night when the shops are closed, just park up and go out, much easier.
And the cinema and Glor are good things for the town, proves there's more to Ennis than drinking.

OldGuysRule

True, Coonagh was utter madness, but also for the reason that there's another shopping center right up the road, it was complete surplus, nothing more than an exercise in laundering money and planning corruption.

Please explain the last bit, about money laundering and planning corruption. Who are you saying was involved with that?

dr.fuzzenstein

OldGuysRule wrote: »

Please explain the last bit, about money laundering and planning corruption. Who are you saying was involved with that?

Of course all planning in Ireland is always done to the strictest standards, all of high quality with a diligent approach by all parties to make sure all developments are sustainable, flood proof and have all amenities and utilities supplied to them at all times.
I am definitely NOT saying that in Ireland any old building can be plonked any old where, even if on the face (and the back, the sides and the arse) of it it looks as though that is exactly what's happening.
So, mum's the word, bob's yer uncle, you ain't seen me, be right as rain, sure she'll be grand and not a word to Brussels.:D

edit:
Clare has actually fared quite well as far as empty and surplus industrial units go, housing estates in flooplanes where more the thing here.
Coonagh isn't so bad, but one wonders if anything will ever happen with it, but whatever that thing beside TK Maxx is, it should definitely be left as a monument to the Celtic Tiger and the building boom.