Joan Burton on Vincent Brown

Laoisman67

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

You mean fine gael, labour and the Greens facilitated this and Sinn Fein oppossed it entirely

Im struggling to remember the Shinners ever supporting anything:D

The Volt

Interesting take on her performance and claims of sexism here

Good old fashioned sexism at play. Assertive women not liked...

Laoisman67

tweedledee wrote: »

.I can tell you that most police,teachers ,nurses etc dont make anything near 40 grand for the first ten years of service..

Basic salary of qualified nurse after 9 years is €42,469 - including allowances and premia payments it would be approx €52k per annum. See INMO.ie. So much false information peddled about public service salaries despite the scales being publicly available on so many websites:mad:

Dirk Gently

Voltwad wrote: »

Interesting take on her performance and claims of sexism here

Good old fashioned sexism at play. Assertive women not liked...

That piece is a pretty disgusting piece of spin tbh. It was Joan herself who disgracefully tried to manufacture the sexism card against Higgins. Her performance wasn't assertive, it was childish and bullying. Lets call a spade a spade and stop hiding behind the straw clutching sexism charge.
Its not right for anyone to behave in a dishonest bullying and chauvinistic manor, even a woman believe it or not.

Sir Oxman

Voltwad wrote: »

Interesting take on her performance and claims of sexism here

Good old fashioned sexism at play. Assertive women not liked...

You can try spin it all you want but Burton was a disgrace on that program.
The blog you link to tries to compare Rabbitte's outburst against Carey - epic fail.

IMO, what Burton tried to do was two-fold:

She saw the previous week how Boyle and Lenihan were led up the garden path by Browne's intransigence and decided to knock that on the head from the off.

She also decided to use a tv debate program to score points off a very real, live threat to her in her own constituency. Major mistake.

I don't dislike her as much as others on here but she did herself, her party and her message no favours and I have no doubt lost her party a good few votes too.

Laoisman67

Voltwad wrote: »

Interesting take on her performance and claims of sexism here

Good old fashioned sexism at play. Assertive women not liked...

Interesting alright - but simply untrue. If any male politician behaved like Joan Burton I would have said the same i.e. bad mannered, uncontrollable, ignorant, moany, whiney and in meltdown. Im still in disbelief at the performance and it was not comparable to crazy horse lenihans previous week which was actually very impressive and eloquent. Burton pulling the sexist card was pathetic - if it was other way round a fella would have had to apologise as she should have done.

steelcityblues

Voltwad wrote: »

Interesting take on her performance and claims of sexism here

Good old fashioned sexism at play. Assertive women not liked...

There is somethng very manipulative about loosely using the charge of sexism, esp. when you are in a cut throat area like politics.

Are you one of those weak minded people who has no problem slagging off a male politician from a rival party for doing poorly, btw?

True equality is calling someone an eejit when they are acting like one - male, female, black, white is irrelevant in this respect.

I think it was generally agreed that Conor Lenihan acted like one the week before too - and he's a man.

People like this academic, and Labour in general, prop an 'equality' industry that is actually anything but.

youcrazyjesus!

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Browne dosen't interrupt Higgins because he's idealogically closer to him than the other two on the show.

Moan was awful but then she's always awful, Apres Match portrayed her perfectly last summer.

Joe Higgins seems like a decent guy but his policies are off in la-la land regarding burning the bondholders completely, his are the politics of protest but he's got no real idea of realpolitik and pragmatism.

Actually, Shane Ross wrote this weekend that hard nosed London bankers, Joe Higgins and himself share completely one analysis of what's happening.

tomcosgrave

I'm a member of the Labour Party. I know Joan Burton. I know her as someone who works extremely hard to advocate Labour Party policy and from talking with her and with other politicians of all parties over my time involved in politics, she's very considerably less egotistical than most of them.
She will always talk with you and always engage. She is really nice and hugely knowledgable.

The outing on Vincent Browne wasn't good but in all fairness to her, she is the Finance spokesperson, she was working long hours over the weekend, and was tired when she was on the show. Being interrupted didn't help. She lost her temper. She's human. Big deal.

I have watched the show today and I have to say the reaction I've seen online is over the top.

So all in all, consider the circumstances - she was tired, constantly interrupted by Vincent Browne, and was debating with a constituency rival, Joe Higgins. In fact, I'd guess she was invited onto the show in the hope that there'd be fireworks.

Oasis_Dublin

tomcosgrave wrote: »

I'm a member of the Labour Party. I know Joan Burton. I know her as someone who works extremely hard to advocate Labour Party policy and from talking with her and with other politicians of all parties over my time involved in politics, she's very considerably less egotistical than most of them.

No one claimed she was egotistical, we suggested she was entirely out of her depth.

tomcosgrave wrote: »

She will always talk with you and always engage. She is really nice and hugely knowledgable.

I'm a nice person. Should I be the next Minister for Finance?!

tomcosgrave wrote: »

The outing on Vincent Browne wasn't good but in all fairness to her, she is the Finance spokesperson, she was working long hours over the weekend, and was tired when she was on the show. Being interrupted didn't help. She lost her temper. She's human. Big deal.

Ah God, the poor thing. Imagine having to talk about a job you hope to fill in March, with a huge salary I might add. She should be applauded for having tried, bless.

tomcosgrave wrote: »

I have watched the show today and I have to say the reaction I've seen online is over the top.

So all in all, consider the circumstances - she was tired, constantly interrupted by Vincent Browne, and was debating with a constituency rival, Joe Higgins. In fact, I'd guess she was invited onto the show in the hope that there'd be fireworks.

Eamon O'Cuiv was interrupted by Browne tonight but, ignoring the fact that he got ripped to shreads by all the other panalists and came off looking like someone who couldn't give an answer to even remotely difficult questions, he managed to keep his cool. That said, he doesn't have the mentality of a five year child.

oppenheimer1

tomcosgrave wrote: »

I'm a member of the Labour Party. I know Joan Burton. I know her as someone who works extremely hard to advocate Labour Party policy and from talking with her and with other politicians of all parties over my time involved in politics, she's very considerably less egotistical than most of them.
She will always talk with you and always engage. She is really nice and hugely knowledgable.

The outing on Vincent Browne wasn't good but in all fairness to her, she is the Finance spokesperson, she was working long hours over the weekend, and was tired when she was on the show. Being interrupted didn't help. She lost her temper. She's human. Big deal.

I have watched the show today and I have to say the reaction I've seen online is over the top.

So all in all, consider the circumstances - she was tired, constantly interrupted by Vincent Browne, and was debating with a constituency rival, Joe Higgins. In fact, I'd guess she was invited onto the show in the hope that there'd be fireworks.

well if that is the case, and you are passionate about labour's success, i suggest you advise her to keep her trap shut unless completely unavoidable. she's an embarrassment

tomcosgrave

Look it wasn't her greatest performance, but as I said, she's human. Is she not allowed to have an off night?

oppenheimer1

tomcosgrave wrote: »

Look it wasn't her greatest performance, but as I said, she's human. Is she not allowed to have an off night?

when does she ever have an 'on' night?

Oasis_Dublin

What was she expecting going on to Browne's show? Has she ever watched it before or did she just go in unprepared?

tomcosgrave

Do you just dislike her in general or can you point me to other instances similar to Monday?

I mean to ask - how is Joan out of her depth? I think her insight into where the economy has gone wrong is excellent - point out to me where it hasn't been?

tomcosgrave

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

What was she expecting going on to Browne's show? Has she ever watched it before or did she just go in unprepared?

She's been on the show quite a lot. I'd honestly be surprised if she didn't prepare, as she usually does.
It's simple really, she was working long hours and she was tired - that's about it, really.

efb

tomcosgrave wrote: »

She's been on the show quite a lot. I'd honestly be surprised if she didn't prepare, as she usually does.
It's simple really, she was working long hours and she was tired - that's about it, really.

She best avoid early morning interviews on Morning
Ireland too so!

tomcosgrave

She had an outing similar to Monday night? When was this?

Seaneh

With That Gob****e Moan Bruton in their ranks it's an absolute wonder anybody can take the rest of the labour party seriously.

I have a lot of respect for the likes of Quinn, Gilmore and even Rabbit (to an extent) but that idiot is going to cost their party a lot of votes.

[edit] to remove a mistake[/edit]

tomcosgrave

David Norris isn't in the Labour Party.
So tell me, what has Joan Burton actually said - putting superficial stuff aside - that you have a problem with?

Seaneh

tomcosgrave wrote: »

David Norris isn't in the Labour Party.
So tell me, what has Joan Burton actually said - putting superficial stuff aside - that you have a problem with?

Nothing besides being a childish tit, which is exactly the problem

Bodhisopha

She wasn't constantly interrupted, she definitely got more time to speak than anyone else. She was only interrupted later in the show because she wouldn't let Higgins speak after her own monologue. They were in effect interrupting her interrupting. She was a bully and a disgrace.

loldog

It freaked her out to have to debate a real Socialist.

.

nkay1985

She is just awful. How a party with ambitions of leading this country can have her as the face of their economic policies during an electoin where it's a major issue is beyond my comprehension. With the likes of Ruaidhri Quinn and Pat Rabbitte at their disposal? Unbelievable!

Sponge Bob

nkay1985 wrote: »

She is just awful. How a party with ambitions of leading this country can have her as the face of their economic policies during an election where it's a major issue is beyond my comprehension.

That is my problem too...that and the fact that Joan is Deputy Party Leader unlike McManus Howlin Rabbitte and Quinn for example. We have had enough gob****ery in the Finance Ministers position to last us a lifetime. It would be entirely fair to say that the last non gob****e was Ruari Quinn.

Even if I left her as Fin spokesperson I could not in conscience accept that sort of performance from the Deputy Leader of a serious party and she should resign from that position at the very least.

Are we all to expect this sort of irrational and vituperative tirade if we have the misfortune to meet our new finance minister at the tail end of a long day in her new office ??

Hi minister, thank you for seeing us.!
Are YoooUUUUUUU HaraaaAAAAnGGGgggguing MMMMMeeeee?

This, for anyone coming late to the story, is the performance we got from the Deputy Leader of the Labour Party on Monday night. The ranting went on for most of the show and this is only a selection.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSnCj_ApI94

SB-08

Mario Rosenstock did a hilarious piss-take of her appearance on VB about an hour ago on Today FM. It was spot on and he has her down to a tee. He also did Vincent well, as well as Joe Higgins and Constitine Guiergiv.:D

ISAW

tomcosgrave wrote: »

The outing on Vincent Browne wasn't good but in all fairness to her, she is the Finance spokesperson, she was working long hours over the weekend, and was tired when she was on the show. Being interrupted didn't help. She lost her temper. She's human. Big deal.

Isn't this hypocritical?
If Cowan was tired or grumpy Joan would probably be the first person saying he was not fit to run the country. why can't that yardstick be applied to her. and how can a woman use patronising "yes dear" comments to VB and then play the equality card on Higgins? More double standards. She continually stated Higgins and Browne were lying and then when given the transcript showing Browne was correct about what Gilmore said said and her statement about Gilmore not stating something was wrong she claimed not to have made that statement. But far worse than anything was her double standard of debate. I can excuse someone interrupting, it is more common to men and is a masculine style, but it is a double standard to begin a debate insisting that people don't interrupt you or "harangue" and making a big issue of it and then constantly interrupting other speakers not to provide information but to badger them with totally unassociated points. I might not agree with Higgins but he was making points about banks and the IMF to the FG deputy and she interrupts with a comment like "there is high unemployment in your constituency you know".

On the plus side she got a smile out of Higgins. Amazing!

I have watched the show today and I have to say the reaction I've seen online is over the top.

I agree. Her reaction to Higgins and Browne was totally over the top.

So all in all, consider the circumstances - she was tired, constantly interrupted by Vincent Browne, and was debating with a constituency rival, Joe Higgins. In fact, I'd guess she was invited onto the show in the hope that there'd be fireworks.

So what? she applied double standards and you are applying a standard to her you would not apply to Cowan. I would accept what you stated as valid if only for you if you had said the same of Cowan at the time. You appeal to "we are all human beings" falls short of the mark however because it is biased and applied to Labour Party deputies and not to anyone else. More double standards.

golfball37

Labour pulled their no confidence motion therefore showing their true colours.

They wanted this bill through so they can blame FF for it. Everyone can see this for themselsves and they will be well punished for it, at the polls.

The logic that the greens would voted confidence in a government with 7 cabinet ministers and a disgraced Taoiseach would be laughable if it wasn't so serious.:mad:

Not to mention they would have to explain how/why they have confidence in a government they had just decided to leave a few days earlier.

Labour have, to quote Pearse Doherty shown themselves to be high on the sniff of the leather from the ministerial mercs and no amount of spin will fool the people who want a real alternative to this governments failed policies.

Jaysoose

tomcosgrave wrote: »

Do you just dislike her in general or can you point me to other instances similar to Monday?

I mean to ask - how is Joan out of her depth? I think her insight into where the economy has gone wrong is excellent - point out to me where it hasn't been?

Her insight into where the economy has gone wrong?? do you mean repeating whatever story is in the paper that day as if she has a clue?

It frightens me that she has a realistic chance of being minister for finance when she doesnt have a basic grasp of mathematics if we are to believe that the CPA wont be touched by her party.

Can you give us an idea of a realistic policy that her party hope to bring in as all im hearing is "we will leave it alone and hope it sorts itself out" while they blame FF for the next 4 years.

InigoMontoya

Voltwad wrote: »

Interesting take on her performance and claims of sexism here

Good old fashioned sexism at play. Assertive women not liked...

Some of the online reaction may have been exaggerated (surely a first!) but to present criticism of her performance as just sexism is nonsense. I work with some assertive women and they don't behave like that in meetings or whatever. If they did I'd consider them quite unprofessional, and Burton was no less so the other night.