Where do I start?

GhostInTheRuins

Hey hey! Basically the thing is I know nothing about Star Trek. Nothing whatsoever. I've never seen a single episode of any of the tv shows or watched any of the films. That is until I was bored enough to watch First Contact on film4 at the weekend. I have to say it was fairly enjoyable!

So for someone who wants to maybe get into it, where's a good place to start? Do you have to start right from the beginning with the 60's series, or can you start with any of the later series? Are all the different series connected to each other with one ongoing storyline or are they separate and you can watch them in any order? Or is maybe watching the films first a good idea? (Maybe they're stupid questions, I don't know :pac:)

Thanks guys

DoesNotCompute

No need to watch them in any specific order, all the series take place in the same universe but generally it is not necessary to watch every episode from the original series back in the 60s all the way to the current JJ Abrams Star Trek movie.

I would reccommend starting with The Next Generation, (or even better, try starting with the Star Trek movies of the eighties with Kirk, Spock, etc, most of these movies are classic, and Shatner's acting can be over the top and cringeworthy at times, which makes them all the better ), and then on to Deep Space 9. DS9 dragged on a bit and got a bit boring in the middle, but towards the end it picked up.

A lot of people like to bash Voyager, I'm not entirely sure why, but I didn't find it that bad overall to be honest.

Enterprise is terrible, although the first half of season 1 was OK.

The most recent Star Trek movie (JJ Abrams version) is brilliant, and it is just what the doctor ordered in terms of reviving the jaded franchise. I would recommend starting with this movie, but without spoiling it too much, it is technically set in an alternate universe, and the pretext might be confusing for a newbie.

Cookie_Monster

Channel 1 (used to be Virgin 1) showing them every day

2-3 ent
3-4 voy
4-5 TNG

If you enjoyed FC bear in mind most of the TNG is a lot more subtle and way better.

VOY is mostly bad but watch able. the 1st season is ****e and the last is just tired
ENT is pretty good apart from a few early eps

the new film is completely terrible

The 2nd and 6th films are epic

nyarlothothep

They're showing TNG in its golden era atm on Channel 1 I think, although I may be wrong.

Star Trek, the original series is also on CBS action, though you have to be careful with that one, while many of the stories are thought provoking and way ahead of their time, you can also get duds like the salt monster episode, space hippies, spocks brain and turnabout intruder. Also its marred by 60s campiness but nonetheless the entire franchise originates from it.

DS9 is often lauded as one of the best star trek series once the dominion war kicks off which I think is season 3 although I'm open to correction, its airing on Channel 1 I think.

VOY-avoid like the plague, its a travesty abomination.

ENT-most people hate it and its got quantum leap guy aka Scott Bakula doing his cheesy "oh boy" clueless starship captain act, with a guest appearance by "al" in one of the episodes. However I liked it for some reason, I don't know why though.

My advice and its entirely opiniated is to watch TNG, catch some TOS classics if you can and check out DS9 especially if its in the dominion war phase as it takes trek in a darker direction which many seemed to like. But imo TNG is the best.

TNG episodes to watch out for are All Good Things, Tapestry, any episode dealing with Worfs quest to restore his family honour, Best of Both Worlds, Family, Chain of Command, The Measure of a Man (actually used in a philosophy lecture once just so you know what to expect, a dialogue heavy courtroom drama essentially on whether machines have rights pertaining to sentience, superb writing and acting from Stewart), Q Who, The Inner Light (possibly the best trek episode ever and one of the greatest pieces of tv ever, slow burner though), Unification parts 1 &2, A Matter of Time, Starship Mine, Descent 1 &2, Gambit 1 &2, Brothers, Parallels are just some. Whatever you do avoid season 1 of TNG, its a red herring in the series run, incredibly camp and cheesy and just plain bad. However its also hilariously fun watching and good for these same reasons but its not representative of the series as a whole.

TOS classics include

Space Seed
Who Mourns for Adonais
Charlie X
Dagger of the Mind
Miri
Patterns of Force
Mirror Mirror
Space Hippies episode (just because its so bad its good)
Also Platos Step Children for a classic WTF?! moment

GhostInTheRuins

Thanks for the replies lads! I wasn't expecting such detailed answers, cheers for the suggestions.

Looks like the general opinion is to start off with Next Generation so. Nyarlothothep, you say I should avoid the first series of next generation, will I not miss out on loads of important stuff, or can you basically watch star trek on an episode to episode basis?

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

Enterprise is terrible, although the first half of season 1 was OK.

The most recent Star Trek movie (JJ Abrams version) is brilliant

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

ENT is pretty good apart from a few early eps

the new film is completely terrible

Not much of a consensus there then :pac:

Magic Eight Ball

If it was me I'd start with season 3 of TNG and go from there.
You could always go back and watch the first two seasons later on.

Aside from a few stand out episodes I'd consider the first and second seasons of TNG pretty weak. (It's the uniforms ahhh! )

+ If I was introducing someone to Star Trek the last thing I'd show them would be "Encounter at Farpoint".

You can pick up the boxsets pretty cheap on play.com
http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/6-/Search.html?searchstring=star+trek+the+next+generation&searchtype=r2alldvd&searchsource=0

Cookie_Monster

once you know the characters you can pretty much jump in and out. not a whole lot changes over the seasons character wise, there's no major developmental things to miss out on

Goldstein

GhostInTheRuins wrote: »

Not much of a consensus there then :pac:

Trust me, it's a stinker as far as star trek goes. There's no intelligence behind it whatsoever which has been a cornerstone of every star trek iteration. Pretty people driving shiney things in space while shouting. Sure it's entertaining and enjoyable enough popcorn escapism but that's about it.

Just like the intro of SW Episode III, it's a case of throwing so much crap at the audience they don't have time to realise that none of it makes any sense whatsoever. Great space based action movie. Awful star trek movie. In the wider science fiction / science fantasy genre, what Star Trek is and star trek 2009 are very much polar opposites.


Regarding your initial question, I'd consur with the TNG starting point. If you're not sure about Season 1, (only if you're not enjoying it) you could jump ahead to the start of Season 3 with a few caveats - the overall tone of the show transitions throughout those eps and if you're still watching by the end of it, you'll definitely finish all 7 seasons.

DS9 is awesome but it's comparably weak at the start overall. Unquestionably the best supporting cast and darkest characters (As far as Star Trek goes anyway) Once they get the Defiant in S3 and the Dominion show up it's getting into its stride. By the end of S3, it's really taken off.

(Don't watch Voyager first or second by the way, it's more suited to be watched after TNG and DS9, if you get that far)
Voyager's not the strongest overall but you're missing out big time on about ~15% of the best star trek episodes of all time by giving up after the first 3 seasons - I find this to be the real primary cause behind Voyager bashing. If they'd actually watched it all the way through they remember some science fiction gold such as:
Scorpion, Blink of an Eye, Timeless, Message in a Bottle, Year of Hell, Relativity, Coda, Nemesis, The Thaw, Latent Image, Waking Moments, Drone, Nemesis...

Cookie_Monster

Pretty much agree 100% with all that post, wouldn't be as supportive of voyager but the basic premise rings true 1 and 2 are ****e 3 is bad 4-6 have pretty good bits, 7 falls down again imo, being quite boring and repetitive.

Blink of an eye is a fantastic trek ep, definitely one of the highlights of voyager, proper intelligent trek

Magic Eight Ball

I argee, VOY isn't half as bad as people make out. It contains some outstanding trek episodes.
My problem with VOY was it hit the 'restart' button after each episode.

Ronald D. Moore said it best..

Voyager is not true. If it were true, the ship would not look spic-and-span every week, after all these battles it goes through. How many times has the bridge been destroyed? How many shuttlecrafts have vanished, and another one just comes out of the oven? That kind of bull****ting the audience I think takes its toll. At some point the audience stops taking it seriously, because they know that this is not really the way this would happen.

Imagine what it could of been.
Anyways, back on topic.

Goldstein

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Pretty much agree 100% with all that post, wouldn't be as supportive of voyager but the basic premise rings true 1 and 2 are ****e 3 is bad 4-6 have pretty good bits, 7 falls down again imo, being quite boring and repetitive.

Blink of an eye is a fantastic trek ep, definitely one of the highlights of voyager, proper intelligent trek

To expand slightly, I feel compelled to defend the relatively few brilliant eps in VOY for the sake of the writers more than anything. They came up with some truly novel ideas and intriging moral dilemmas in the lesser travelled alleys of that show, one of the hallmarks of trek. Definitely the weakest cast/worst actors no question (Edit: Obviously excepting Robert Picardo's The Doctor). The first 3 seasons were very poor and I'd agree with the dip towards the end - I didn't really like any of the Borg 2-parters after the Epic Scorpion either. The hidden gems are what let me forgive its failings.

nyarlothothep

GhostInTheRuins wrote: »

Thanks for the replies lads! I wasn't expecting such detailed answers, cheers for the suggestions.

Looks like the general opinion is to start off with Next Generation so. Nyarlothothep, you say I should avoid the first series of next generation, will I not miss out on loads of important stuff, or can you basically watch star trek on an episode to episode basis?





Not much of a consensus there then :pac:

You won't miss out on anything, TNG was primarily episodic in nature although there were some story arcs, none of which have their origins in Season 1 irc, apart from the Traveller/Wesley arc which was kinda creepy and not in a good way :pac:

cyrusdvirus

Magic Eight Ball wrote: »

I argee, VOY isn't half as bad as people make out. It contains some outstanding trek episodes.
My problem with VOY was it hit the 'restart' button after each episode.

Ronald D. Moore said it best..


Imagine what it could of been.
Anyways, back on topic.

What could have been ended up being in Battlestar Galactica

livinginkorea

I totally agree with the re-set button on VOY and TNG. Too many last minutes technological answers. That's why I really liked DS9. Their story arcs lasted a long time, seasons in fact. Also a lot of politics was involved in it too and that's an area which is often over shadowed in other series (although VOY did do some of this in the earlier seasons).

I would suggest TNG first and then DS9. You will be hooked then! Once that is done the there are a hundred or so books to read continuing on with the story.

Vicxas

I think the original movies, then The Next Generation then DS9 the voyager... AVOID Enterprise alotogether.... god awful.

helimachoptor

I really liked ENT i have to say

Lantus

I'd watch TNG first from S1, I appreciate that many people here say start at S2 or 3 but your saying that from the perspective of having watched them all many times before that. Starting from the begining would build up character development.

You will notice that they are no where as polished and as clean as the films in S1 and 2. It took some time to get the characters in the rght places and develop the story. Some of the stories are a little cheesy (skin of evil) but they do set the scene for S3 and beyond where it gathers pace. (try not to think about wesley too much, it will just hurt your head. Luckily his input diminsihes as things progress.)

DS9 was a fav for me, gritty and darker.

I personally thought that Voyager was a great show. It was closer to JR's vision in part and had some great story lines. ANyway, your a big boy and I'm sure you can make up your own mind...


The films are a very contovesial bunch. The origonal series with kirk are generally good with even numbered films being especially good and the odd numbered ones not so.

The next gen films are watchable becasue they look good and really amplify the characters you have come to know through the series but the story writing is attrocious and the plot holes are so large you can fit a starship through them. (for example in first contact why did the borg not just travel back in time in the delta quadrant 70,000 light years away and then fly peacfully earth when most life was just single cell? Of course that doesn't make for exciting telly does it? but it's so damm annoying because it is so hard to get time travel stories right.) That said I still have a lovley box set of them all.

The origonal series is a timeless classic and pushed the boundaries of societys acceptance of social issues. The pilot had a female first office, there was a black woman on the bridge and in one episode she even kissed a white man. Sounds tame but at the time society just didn't see that on tv! Even today I think they are well made and quality tv. DS9's remake of the trouble with the tribbles episode was really good. But it really helps to of seen the origonal.

IvySlayer

Lantus wrote: »

I personally thought that Voyager was a great show. It was closer to JR's vision in part and had some great story lines. ANyway, your a big boy and I'm sure you can make up your own mind...

The next gen films are watchable becasue they look good and really amplify the characters you have come to know through the series but the story writing is attrocious and the plot holes are so large you can fit a starship through them.

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to pull you up on that! Voyager had so much bad writing and plot holes its cringeworthy! I watch Voyager all the time but it's very frustrating to do it. It had the potential to be an amazing series.

Short version of my problems: The Maquis vs Starfleet should've been used a lot more imo. I hated how Voyager was always perfectly clean and magically repaired so easily. Year of Hell was really how Voyager should always have been. The fact they couldn't make their own good enemies in and they had to screw with the Borg. Turned them from an unbeatable force to a nuisance. Ruining Q. Neelix. Captain Painway violating everything. I just want to scream into a pillow.

They still had some damn good characters and storylines. Seven Of Nine, The Doctor. Blink of an eye, Message in a bottle, Timeless etc etc

TNG films are fairly crap. Generations, Insurrection and Nemesis are just so wrong. First Contact is decent. And yes, the only sending one cube too close to Earth is a plot hole. The Borg Queen is a stupid character, goes against the whole notion of the Borg, but Voyager wrote her in :mad:

My favorite series are

1. TNG
2. DS9
3. TOS
4. Voyager
4. Getting my teeth pulled out
5. Dying
6. Enterprise. (Don't get me started, had the potential but they just ****ed it up)

Lantus

IvySlayer wrote: »

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to pull you up on that! Voyager had so much bad writing and plot holes its cringeworthy! I watch Voyager all the time but it's very frustrating to do it. It had the potential to be an amazing series.

Short version of my problems: The Maquis vs Starfleet should've been used a lot more imo. I hated how Voyager was always perfectly clean and magically repaired so easily. Year of Hell was really how Voyager should always have been. The fact they couldn't make their own good enemies in and they had to screw with the Borg. Turned them from an unbeatable force to a nuisance. Ruining Q. Neelix. Captain Painway violating everything. I just want to scream into a pillow.

They still had some damn good characters and storylines. Seven Of Nine, The Doctor. Blink of an eye, Message in a bottle, Timeless etc etc

TNG films are fairly crap. Generations, Insurrection and Nemesis are just so wrong. First Contact is decent. And yes, the only sending one cube too close to Earth is a plot hole. The Borg Queen is a stupid character, goes against the whole notion of the Borg, but Voyager wrote her in :mad:

My favorite series are

1. TNG
2. DS9
3. TOS
4. Voyager
4. Getting my teeth pulled out
5. Dying
6. Enterprise. (Don't get me started, had the potential but they just ****ed it up)

No worries! Everyone can like or dislike the show as they like!

I'd generally agree with your list, although I would watch enterprise rather than actually die....

Enterprise was a great concept but was always going to be tricky. The writers failed by trying to write it as they would of done for any previous show and used familiar enemies...the borg (cringe...) to poor effect to get the cheapest grab and shock tactics that would make roddenberry turn in his grave.

First contact is a well presented movie but once you analyse it you can write pages on the plot holes and problems it creates...
generations is no different. Example, if the nexus can take you anywhere and any time why go back to the mountain 5 mins before the rocket takes off with a fat captain? why not go further back when he's on the enterprise and catch him there?

How does the rocket reach the sun in 11 seconds without any apparent warp drive (should take 6-8mins at warp1) and the effects of the rocket hitting the sun are seen instantly(should take sameamount of time for light to reach the planet.

How come the nexus travels really slow over the planet but also manages to travel at ultra high warp speeds when needed to move through the galaxy and between star systems?

How come whoopy recognises picard in the nexus when they ain't met?

In the TNG 'relics'scotty expects to see kirk but he saw him lost in the ribbon well before this.

and soon...

livinginkorea

For me it's

DS9
TNG / Voyager
TOS
The movies

Haven't seen Enterprise yet.

Looking back at them the movies were pretty crap. Then again what can you do with Star Trek in 2 hours. Nothing much really. I really wished that they continued on with the TNG/DS9/VOY story lines and made a new series to follow this. Going backwards seems to have annoyed a lot of people.

Rawr

Just throw my few cents in:

If you are to start with Trek, I might recommend starting off with the original movies, in particular Star Trek II - The Wrath of Khan (a true sci-fi classic in it's own regard, regardless of the Star Trek franchise).

That is where I first got into Trek when I was little. It should be followed up by Star Trek III, to give you a good idea of classic Klingons (Christoffer Lloyd played what I feel is the best Klingon the series has seen.)

After that go for Star Trek IV - The Voyage Home, to finish off that story arc. (II, III, and IV are kind of a trilogy).

I would warn you against watching Star Trek: The Motion Picture until you are more familiar with the franchise. It's kind of weird and seems to be going for a style similar to 2001 - A Space Odyssey. Still worth a watch though.

After the movie 'trilogy', I recommend a cocktail of the original Star Trek (TOS) series, and Star Trek: The Next Generation (TNG). For TNG, like others have said here, it is best to start in Season 3. Season 1 is not completely horrible, but does contain enough cheese to feed France for a week. Season 2 is actually pretty good in parts, and develops a much darker tone than Season 1. I recommend 'Q-Who' from Season 2, which is where we meet the Borg for the first time. 'Contagion' was also pretty good.

However, Season 2 is guilty of having an actual clip show in it's run.

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine (DS9) is recommended after this. The show began during TNGs run and continued after it. Watch the first few episodes to get the whole idea of the show and then skip ahead to the final few episodes of Season 2. Season 1 and most of 2 suffer mostly from plots focused on the Bajorans and their religion...which I always felt were boring. The end of season 2 brings in the Dominon and more interesting times for the series.

Then there's Star Trek: Voyager (VOY). Hmmm...it's true that this show had some really classic episodes, but as an entire package this show can get very annoying. The concept of Voyager is great, it's just a pity that the producers didn't have the balls to use it properly. They ruin the Borg in this series by making them a sort of joke enemy and they recycle TNG and DS9 plots all over the place (and not in a good way). The show also contains the single most insulting piece of 'Irish Americana' you will ever encounter. You will learn to curse the name 'Fair Haven'. Trust me...you will.

When VOY came to it's disappointing conclusion, we then move to '(Star Trek) Enterprise' (ENT). The reason I put 'Star Trek' in brackets there, is because when they first started this show, they actually tried to pretend that it wasn't Star Trek at all. It was simply call 'Enterprise' and it appeared obvious that they were really gunning for new viewers, as opposed to the existing fans. This move back-fired on them, and they then added 'Star Trek' to the title. ENT has it's moments, but I felt that they were too few and far between. This show was a perfect opportunity to bring the show back to it's roots, but unfortunately fell into the same formulaic rut that Voyager suffered from. This show was cancelled and put an end to Star Trek on TV for the foreseeable future.

There you go, my own incomplete beginner's guide to Trek. Most of it is my own opinion, and should be taken with several pinches of salt, since different viewers can feel differently about the shows. Several do actually like Enterprise and other aspects of Star Trek that I do not, and you may too.

In the end, I hope you enjoy yourself. It's a very big franchise, with a lot of fun shows and episodes in there.

myk

Rawr wrote: »

However, Season 2 is guilty of having an actual clip show in it's run.

How did they manage that?

IvySlayer

myk wrote: »

How did they manage that?

They ran out of money, so they devised a plot where Riker got a parasite so he was in a coma going through his memories, basically justs clips of what happened in season 1/2.

myk

IvySlayer wrote: »

They ran out of money, so they devised a plot where Riker got a parasite so he was in a coma going through his memories, basically justs clips of what happened in season 1/2.

:eek: I'm glad that I have either missed that one, or forgotten about it!

Rawr

myk wrote: »

:eek: I'm glad that I have either missed that one, or forgotten about it!

All-in-all a nastly little episode. I do however like the part where things blow up whenever Riker says 'Destruct'. I thought that was fun

Myrddin

IvySlayer wrote: »

They ran out of money, so they devised a plot where Riker got a parasite so he was in a coma going through his memories, basically justs clips of what happened in season 1/2.

I thought it was the writers strike, as opposed to lack of money?

Beefy78

Lantus wrote: »

How does the rocket reach the sun in 11 seconds without any apparent warp drive (should take 6-8mins at warp1) and the effects of the rocket hitting the sun are seen instantly(should take sameamount of time for light to reach the planet.

Even as a kid that was one of my biggest problems with that film.

Lantus wrote: »

How come whoopy recognises picard in the nexus when they ain't met?

I suspect that that is a plot hole which the writers would explain away as being part of the mystical power of the Nexus. However they actually had met a few hundred years earlier on Earth (Times Arrow).

Beefy78

EnterNow wrote: »

I thought it was the writers strike, as opposed to lack of money?

Yeah, that is right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shades_of_Gray_%28Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation%29

"Shades of Gray" is a clip show with the bulk of this episode composed of footage from previous TNG episodes. In a writers' strike-shortened second season, the producers needed one more episode so they quickly drafted and filmed a story that would allow for Riker to simply "remember" past events.

Benny_Cake

Paramount actually wanted to do another clip show in Season 4 of TNG to balance the budget for the season. Thankfully they were stood up to and instead of a clip show, we got "The Drumhead":

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Drumhead_%28episode%29#Background_information

Lantus

Beefy78 wrote: »

Even as a kid that was one of my biggest problems with that film.



I suspect that that is a plot hole which the writers would explain away as being part of the mystical power of the Nexus. However they actually had met a few hundred years earlier on Earth (Times Arrow).

Yes but they were never familiar at that point like she is in the Nexus with him. It's just like the Enterprise Guinan. Best bet is to watch the reviews here (PS, He does the best star wars review for the first 'films' on the internet. Watch them too.)

http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-trek/

Beefy78

Yeah I've seen his Star Wars reviews. They are far better than his Trek reviews (he savaged First Contact, for example).

They were familiar enough after Times Arrow. There's a huge number of question marks over how the Nexus works and they way that they deal with what is essentially time travel, but Guinan and Picard knowing eachother I don't think is one (just my opinion).