Would you vote Sinn Fein for the election?

Wolfe Tone

K-9 wrote: »

Thinking like that is the reason for the fear of whistle blowing in this country and part of why we are in this mess.

Maybe its because I am just up, I don't really understand what you mean..... elaborate?

pablomakaveli

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Well done for judging a huge group of people on the basis of one post.


That would be like me saying I have zero respect for Gardaí based on one of your posts.

It is a good example of how some republicans will try and explain away or give some sort of justification for atrocities carried out by the Provos and their offshoots.

Fratton Fred

problemchimp wrote: »

Yes I would and will vote for them. But I ain't gonna justify it to Wibbs or Fratton Fred.

Is that won't justify it, or cant?

danbohan

pablomakaveli wrote: »

No, west brit insults are thrown around by republicans against people who don't agree with them.

Also the british army are not trying to get elected to government so they are irrelevant to this thread.

the only one really talking about west brits is fratton fred and i dont think he is a republican , tea party maybe

if people are going label sinn fein leaders as murderers then they are bringing the war/troubles into the discussion

Wolfe Tone

Wibbs wrote: »

With respect that's bollocks. I can think of few people, "west brit" or not(WTF does that even mean?) who wouldnt equally condemn bloody sunday, the shankill butchers or the IRA's actions. Down south anyway. Tends to be more polarised up in Ulster.

"West Brit" for the most part is an idiotic term. I don't think Ive ever used it.

Wibbs

Crosáidí wrote: »

If one is going to run for an election isn't it a given that they will have goals/policies for their term :rolleyes:

OK. I'll. Join. The. Dots. Their policies are my problem. No matter how good an individual is at a local level their policies along with their mates in the other extreme left wing parties are daft and would throw this country into penury.

It's like the same people in this thread saying they wouldn't vote for SF beacuse they are murduring scumbags are the exact same people who say when there's a thread about the North/English it's time to move on, stop living in the past.
Double standards and hyprocrites

Wut? 90% of the time when someone says move on from the evil brits it's talking of things that happened generations ago, even 100's of years ago. Not when current candidates were allegedly on army councils and the like. But hey, that's cool. Swords into ploughshares and all that. It's their daft notions that put me off.

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

That is all well and good, but who has? The same old argument over and over of the past dealings that have been linked to Sinn Fein. Sinn Fein are proposing what Iceland has already done and they seem to be doing pretty well.

Oh god..... Iceland is a very very different case to here. You cannot equate the two. Seriously. read up on this stuff before you put an X beside some yahoo who believes it would work out the same.

Nobody in this thread has yet said what the OTHER parties are putting on the table!

Yep not exactly great thinking on the other party's part. Cautious. Maybe overly so. But compared to the Shinners or the Boyd Barret crowd. They make even the Feeeana Faillers look brainy.

K-9

danbohan wrote: »

thats pretty delusional , even by your high standards!

Cheers for the compliment coming from you.

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Well done for judging a huge group of people on the basis of one post.


That would be like me saying I have zero respect for Gardaí based on one of your posts.

Well seeing as you condone executing touts I can see why you'd think that.

It's that culture that is pervasive in Ireland today, more so than any other developed country IMO, all due to a fear of touting from way back, still perpetuated by cases like the McCartney one.

Keep going lads, just when you think SF are trying to move on, people like yourselves remind me of what the typical SF supporter is like.

danbohan

Wibbs wrote: »

With respect that's bollocks. I can think of few people, "west brit" or not(WTF does that even mean?) who wouldnt equally condemn bloody sunday, the shankill butchers or the IRA's actions. Down south anyway. Tends to be more polarised up in Ulster.

yes that is true , i was referring to the poster .

pablomakaveli

danbohan wrote: »

the only one really talking about west brits is fratton fred and i dont think he is a republican , tea party maybe

if people are going label sinn fein leaders as murderers then they are bringing the war/troubles into the discussion

As i've said the british army are not looking for our votes. While someone like Gerry Adams who more than likely had involvement in the IRA is looking for votes here. His involvement in the Troubles is relevant.

Wolfe Tone

pablomakaveli wrote: »

As i've said the british army are not looking for our votes. While someone like Gerry Adams who more than likely had involvement in the IRA is looking for votes here. His involvement in the Troubles is relevant.

The reasons why he did what he supposedly did are relevant are they not?

MagicSean

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Well done for judging a huge group of people on the basis of one post.


That would be like me saying I have zero respect for Gardaí based on one of your posts.

Yes I am judging them all. Possibly it's something to do with the fact that none of them have condemmed this attitude either in this thread ot in the other one..

pablomakaveli

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

The reasons why he did what he supposedly did are relevant are they not?

Not when the end results are what they are.

K-9

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh god..... Iceland is a very very different case to here. You cannot equate the two. Seriously. read up on this stuff before you put an X beside some yahoo who believes it would work out the same.

Yeah, the average Icelander isn't particularly happy with what happened there either, wages down drastically due to taxes and devaluing, something like 50/60% of households in mortgage arrears.

They are proposing a system of bailing people with massive mortgages, the irresponsible ones, while the ordinary prudent borrowers get nothing, just pay for it!

Somethings never change, regardless of so called better solutions.

Krusader

Wibbs wrote: »

OK. I'll. Join. The. Dots. Their policies are my problem. No matter how good an individual is at a local level their policies along with their mates in the other extreme left wing parties are daft and would throw this country into penury.
.

As opposed to the policies of FF a right-centrist party, yeah they have done wonders for this country

Fratton Fred

danbohan wrote: »

the only one really talking about west brits is fratton fred and i dont think he is a republican , tea party maybe

if people are going label sinn fein leaders as murderers then they are bringing the war/troubles into the discussion

Come on then Dan, impress us all.

I made a very valid statement about sinn fein policies how about you tell us all how SF are going to get us out of this mess.

And let's see if, for once, you can avoid having a dig at me or my nationality?

Wolfe Tone

K-9 wrote: »

Cheers for the compliment coming from you.



Well seeing as you condone executing touts I can see why you'd think that.

It's that culture that is pervasive in Ireland today, more so than any other developed country IMO, all due to a fear of touting from way back, still perpetuated by cases like the McCartney one.

Keep going lads, just when you think SF are trying to move on, people like yourselves remind me of what the typical SF supporter is like.

Yes, because being a British informant for cash is exactly the same as being a whistle blower in say a financial institution.

The consequences are the same too aren't they? The banker is hardly going to be blasted apart.

I was talking about 1972 too, not today, In todays context I would feel different.

ejmaztec

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0126/breaking42.html

Sinn Féin president Gerry Adams has officially resigned from his Westminster seat and now becomes Crown Steward and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead, British prime minister David Cameron said today.
Mr Adams, who is standing in general election, resigned his West Belfast seat in a letter to Commons Speaker John Bercow. But there was confusion over whether he had formally applied to the Chancellor for an office of profit under the Crown, a title that makes a person ineligible to sit in the Commons.
A 400-year-old rule that requires him to accept a British crown-paid post before he could quit.
At Commons question time today, David Cameron told MPs that Mr Adams had agreed to become “baron of the Manor of Northstead”.

Baron Gerry? Sounds like an expensive ice-cream.

Wolfe Tone

k_mac wrote: »

Yes I am judging them all. Possibly it's something to do with the fact that none of them have condemmed this attitude either in this thread ot in the other one..

I hope your inherent bias does not affect your police work then!




I doubt you will see many trying to justify the killing of McCabe.

MagicMarker

Can some of the Sinn Fein supporters explain to me how we are going to finance this country long term if they were to get into power?

If you can provide a plausible answer then I will give Sinn Fein my vote.

redalan

Never

dfx-

I'd rather spoil my vote than vote for Sinn Féin.

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

Nobody in this thread has yet said what the OTHER parties are putting on the table!

What have other parties got to do with it?

MagicSean

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I doubt you will see many trying to justify the killing of McCabe.

It's not the attempt at the justification that is Sinn Feins problem it is their lack of condemnation. Take credit for the good, ignore the bad.

problemchimp

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Is that won't justify it, or cant?

I can but won't as their is no point.

Capt'n Midnight

pablomakaveli wrote: »

It is a good example of how some republicans will try and explain away or give some sort of justification for atrocities carried out by the Provos and their offshoots.

the same old rhetoric gets tiring after a while. There rarely if ever a clear acceptance of responsibility. And if there is it's usually linked to "they were just as bad"

Not the sort of stuff you want in government when we've had too much of it in the past.

Wolfe Tone

k_mac wrote: »

It's not the attempt at the justification that is Sinn Feins problem it is their lack of condemnation. Take credit for the good, ignore the bad.

I can understand not condemning it at the time(keep the volunteers on board) today is a bit different. I dont think the situation in the north has come far enough for SF to slate IRA members, a move which would be viewed as a further betrayal by some.

Personally I condemn it.

K-9

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Yes, because being a British informant for cash is exactly the same as being a whistle blower in say a financial institution.

The consequences are the same too aren't they? The banker is hardly going to be blasted apart.

I was talking about 1972 too, not today, In todays context I would feel different.

Yes, but it pervades through Irish society from the church scandals to the economic and banking mess. People were willing to whistle blow after the banking crisis when it was easy, very few did it when it really mattered and would have involved damage to their career or reputation. Obviously it isn't just down to SF, but they play a big part.

Its a common and effective Republican tactic since tarring and feathering but I believe it does affect the lack of whistle blowers today. As for 1972, that doesn't really matter to me on this issue. You are either against executing touts or not. Saying it was okay in 1972 is condoning it, leaving it open to the RIRA to do it now and say, "sure it was good enough for SF".

Wolfe Tone

K-9 wrote: »

Yes, but it pervades through Irish society from the church scandals to the economic and banking mess. People were willing to whistle blow after the banking crisis when it was easy, very few did it when it really mattered and would have involved damage to their career or reputation. Obviously it isn't just down to SF, but they play a big part.

Its a common and effective Republican tactic since tarring and feathering but I believe it does affect the lack of whistle blowers today. As for 1972, that doesn't really matter to me on this issue. You are either against executing touts or not. Saying it was okay in 1972 is condoning it, leaving it open to the RIRA to do it now and say, "sure it was good enough for SF".

Thats a silly card to play. I can say capturing the GPO was ok in 1916, does that mean I am condoning it today? Of course not. I can say Britain declaring war on Germany was ok in 1939, doesn't mean I condone it today! You cannot totally discount the context of the day.

flag123

No way. Nothing to do with the past just I feel they wouldn't do a great job (not that any Irish party would).

Maybe it's because they swing to far to the left.

danbohan

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Come on then Dan, impress us all.

I made a very valid statement about sinn fein policies how about you tell us all how SF are going to get us out of this mess.

And let's see if, for once, you can avoid having a dig at me or my nationality?

well for once i agree with you fred , i do not agree with sinn feins economic policys either and have not done so for years ,many sinn fein voters of the past especially those from rural backgrounds find sinn feins drift to urban markism unnerving , they will not be in power so they can produce basket case economics without any great problems , however as is the case in northern ireland i would expect that if they do ever get into power in the south they will become much more mainstream ,that said i will vote for them based on their other policys such as a united ireland and the fact that the other alternative partys ie fine gael /labour are so close to fianna fail and the mess they created as not offering a worthwhile alternative ,

i dont have a problem with your nationality at all fred , what i do have a problem with is your condemnation on a regular basis of sinn fein / nationalists and as murderers and your refusal to condemn actions of your army and government

Richard tea

All the Anti Sinn Fein threads are getting boring. Everyone saying that Gerry Adams has not got a clue about finance, maybe so, but by god it has been proved that FF didnt either:o FG and lab are cowards:mad:

K-9

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Thats a silly card to play. I can say capturing the GPO was ok in 1916, does that mean I am condoning it today? Of course not. I can say Britain declaring war on Germany was ok in 1939, doesn't mean I condone it today! You cannot totally discount the context of the day.

If the same circumstances existed today re 1916 you'd condemn the Rising? Why?

Well to me, executing touts was never ok, from tarring and feathering to knee capping to intimidation like the McCartney case. It's a bit like how police brutality on suspects is wrong, whether it was the RUC, Guards, RIC or the West Midlands police.

It may have been more acceptable in the 70's and the majority of people supported it, but it's still wrong, people supporting it now are wrong and people who supported then are wrong.

Wolfe Tone

I think the best result SF supporters can hope for is that SF will be the main opposition. A role I think they will excel in.

mimi7365

Would I vote for Sinn Fein?

In the words of the Rev Ian Paisley..... NEVER, NEVER NEVER!!:D

Wolfe Tone

K-9 wrote: »

If the same circumstances existed today re 1916 you'd condemn the Rising? Why?

Well to me, executing touts was never ok, from tarring and feathering to knee capping to intimidation like the McCartney case. It's a bit like how police brutality on suspects is wrong, whether it was the RUC, Guards, RIC or the West Midlands police.

It may have been more acceptable in the 70's and the majority of people supported it, but it's still wrong, people supporting it now are wrong and people who supported then are wrong.

I wouldn't if the circumstances where the same. You said you didn't care about 1972 and supporting it in that context was supporting it today. Or I picked you up wrong?

I certainly woudnt support it in todays context.

Gunsfortoys

dfx- wrote: »

I'd rather spoil my vote than vote for Sinn Féin.



What have other parties got to do with it?

Duh I dunno *scratches head* duh maybe they have something to do like duh, steer the country back from its current situation.:rolleyes:

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh god..... Iceland is a very very different case to here. You cannot equate the two. Seriously. read up on this stuff before you put an X beside some yahoo who believes it would work out the same.

I do read up on this stuff. No need to be condescending about it either.

The policy that Sinn Fein have put together makes more sense that a bailout from the IMF for one reason and that is there STILL won't be enough tax coming in to pay the ridiculous interest rates they have set for us. We will probably have to default ANYWAY then where would we be? How is Iceland different exactly? They have successfully restructured their Banks, they have reduced unemployment and all because they chose to stay out of the European and Monetary union. These are all some of the policies that Sinn Fein adopt.

So tell me WHAT other parties bring to the table that is any different to FF?

By the way I am NOT a Sinn Fein supporter.

K-9

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I wouldn't if the circumstances where the same. You said you didn't care about 1972 and supporting it in that context was supporting it today. Or I picked you up wrong?

I certainly woudnt support it in todays context.

I think it is more by saying it was ok in 1972, that means the RIRA today can say it is okay now. Even by saying it isn't okay now, you are condoning it, basically it's your subjective view that executing touts is okay in certain circumstances.

It's like me saying police brutality was okay in 1972 but not now.

Wolfe Tone

K-9 wrote: »

I think it is more by saying it was ok in 1972, that means the RIRA today can say it is okay now. Even by saying it isn't okay now, you are condoning it, basically it's your subjective view that executing touts is okay in certain circumstances.

It's like me saying police brutality was okay in 1972 but not now.

I dont think it is as black or white as you are trying to portray it. Its like saying killing people is wrong, full stop.

K-9

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

Duh I dunno *scratches head* duh maybe they have something to do like duh, steer the country back from its current situation.:rolleyes:



I do read up on this stuff. No need to be condescending about it either.

The policy that Sinn Fein have put together makes more sense that a bailout from the IMF for one reason and that is there STILL won't be enough tax coming in to pay the ridiculous interest rates they have set for us. We will probably have to default ANYWAY then where would we be? How is Iceland different exactly? They have successfully restructured their Banks, they have reduced unemployment and all because they chose to stay out of the European and Monetary union. These are all some of the policies that Sinn Fein adopt.

So tell me WHAT other parties bring to the table that is any different to FF?

By the way I am NOT a Sinn Fein supporter.

Has it come down in Iceland.

It was 8% in August, increased from about 1.5% traditionally, the increase was proportionately higher compared to here, from 5% to 14%

BBC News - Unemployment shock hits Iceland

Doesn't seem that much better tbh.

Krusader

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

Duh I dunno *scratches head* duh maybe they have something to do like duh, steer the country back from its current situation.:rolleyes:



I do read up on this stuff. No need to be condescending about it either.

The policy that Sinn Fein have put together makes more sense that a bailout from the IMF for one reason and that is there STILL won't be enough tax coming in to pay the ridiculous interest rates they have set for us. We will probably have to default ANYWAY then where would we be? How is Iceland different exactly? They have successfully restructured their Banks, they have reduced unemployment and all because they chose to stay out of the European and Monetary union. These are all some of the policies that Sinn Fein adopt.

So tell me WHAT other parties bring to the table that is any different to FF?

By the way I am NOT a Sinn Fein supporter.

I agree, while I wouldn't like Ireland to leave the EU as a whole, i think leaving the euro and defaulting on the debt and restructuring our banking system is the best way forward

PeterIanStaker

Not a f***ing hope.

Gunsfortoys

Crosáidí wrote: »

I agree, while I wouldn't like Ireland to leave the EU as a whole, i think leaving the euro and defaulting on the debt and restructuring our banking system is the best way forward

We don't have to draw down any of the loan either though. You are just prolonging the inevitable really. Exactly what FF wanted.

PeterIanStaker

The only thing SF are is a bogeyman for the Indo/Sindo to use to get votes for their FF masters.

K-9

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I dont think it is as black or white as you are trying to portray it. Its like saying killing people is wrong, full stop.

Maybe. I'd see police brutality and executing touts as similar enough. Maybe you do think police brutality is okay in certain circumstances?

Gunsfortoys

K-9 wrote: »

Has it come down in Iceland.

It was 8% in August, increased from about 1.5% traditionally, the increase was proportionately higher compared to here, from 5% to 14%

BBC News - Unemployment shock hits Iceland

Doesn't seem that much better tbh.

That was in august 2010. It went from 9.4% to 7% by December 2010 which is rapid.

Wolfe Tone

K-9 wrote: »

Maybe. I'd see police brutality and executing touts as similar enough. Maybe you do think police brutality is okay in certain circumstances?

Only if its Dirty Harry!

yizorselves

Yes I will be

K-9

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

That was in august 2010. It went from 9.4% to 7% by December 2010 which is rapid.

This links says it was 7.3% in August anyway:

Iceland Unemployment Rate

So not that rapid at all.

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Only if its Dirty Harry!

Ah well, execution of touts was okay in 1972 but not police brutality!

Get you now.

K-9

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

That was in august 2010. It went from 9.4% to 7% by December 2010 which is rapid.

Sorry, it was 9% a year ago so not bad.

LordSutch

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

The policy that Sinn Fein have put together makes more sense that a bailout from the IMF . . .

So Sinn fein are openly advocating that we don't need the bailout
Cloud cuckoo land or what :rolleyes:

Wibbs

Crosáidí wrote: »

As opposed to the policies of FF a right-centrist party, yeah they have done wonders for this country

So the other guy is crap, so best bring in someone else, just because they're different. Jesus. In any case this explanation is pointless. Are you sure you're not a Fine Gaeler, that's their usual tack. "Down with the party in Gov. Down we say!!". "Have you anything better to offer?". "well.... kinda.... ehh..... We object!!".

Richard tea wrote: »

All the Anti Sinn Fein threads are getting boring. Everyone saying that Gerry Adams has not got a clue about finance, maybe so, but by god it has been proved that FF didnt either:o FG and lab are cowards:mad:

And yet another example of the same thinking. Way more extreme than yours Crosáidí to be fair. " The other parties have no clue, I have no clue, so I'll kneejerk vote in these other guys, they seem to be saying they have a clue".

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

The policy that Sinn Fein have put together makes more sense that a bailout from the IMF for one reason and that is there STILL won't be enough tax coming in to pay the ridiculous interest rates they have set for us. We will probably have to default ANYWAY then where would we be?

Oh that's possible. Maybe even likely. Maybe I'd be all for it depending on how its done(don't default on sovereign debt, default on all the rest"). But if that happens we'd still have the banks on our side for trying, we'd still have the IMF and the EU behind us. If we default off our own bat and tell the EU to take a running jump then it really is game over for a generation.

.How is Iceland different exactly?

They're different on soooo many levels.

They have successfully restructured their Banks, they have reduced unemployment and all because they chose to stay out of the European and Monetary union. These are all some of the policies that Sinn Fein adopt.

And what did I say of SF policies already? Either daft or too little too late. Iceland was different in very clear respect. They had control of their currency. We do not and have not for ten years. Fine if we had never signed up for it but sign up we did. Leaving now would not be so easy. Not even close. It's a lot easier to not get pregnant than to deal with it after you do. Secondly Iceland isn't out of the woods. Not by a long shot. Their economy has contracted more than ours. A rocky road to recovery it may be but we're further on the road than iceland.

Crosáidí wrote: »

I agree, while I wouldn't like Ireland to leave the EU as a whole, i think leaving the euro and defaulting on the debt and restructuring our banking system is the best way forward

OK lets look at this. practically. Number 1. How would you set the value of the new currency? How would you finance it? Loans? oh.... right... sorry..... Pension fund(like some of the daft SF's say)? Great, so you get a year and then what? Country grinds to a halt and then you have to look for money from..... oh that's right. The banks? Nope you're a crap short medium term risk and you've burned them already. The EU? Oh well you've really burned them and after all the did for you. Sounds great, leave the euro restructure the banks but it just doesnt add up.