Would you vote Sinn Fein for the election?

lugha

squod wrote: »

You do get me when I say we can't afford the EU/IMF deal and that the private debt of the banks will have to sorted out? Paying back an unmanageable €124bn will seem a poorer/riskier investment than paying back a significantly smaller sum.

For me, there is a difference between going in and attempting to renegotiate the deal in a year or two and taking the SF "feck off with ye" approach.

Do you think the EMF would continue to support our banks if we unilaterally decided to go for an un-negotiated default?

I tell you, if I heard any serious party seriously suggest that that they would give the two fingers to the EMF, I would be down to my local bank as fast as my little legs could carry me, and withdraw every last cent I have on deposit. And anyone else with deposits would be foolish not to do the same.

Fratton Fred

Dionysus wrote: »

How about the people to whom those private German, British and French financial institutions lent the money? And if they can't pay, well then those private financial institutions make a loss. There's a concept. In fact, were it not for the fact that the ECB is controlled by politicians from the same countries whose private banks are exposed to the Irish market, the Irish taxpayer would have no responsibility to pay those private debts back to those countries' banks.

The only debt which the Irish state should be paying is our sovereign debt. End of.

This is just looking for someone else to pick up debts run up in Ireland.

The people that lent recklessly were AIB, BofI, Anglo etc. It is their customers that can't pay, mainly because of a ridiculously inflated property bubble created by greed in Ireland and the crazy policies of the Irish government.

And you want the German, British and French to take the pain?

So if SF gets into power how will they pay the wages of all the civil servanys? They are talking about using the state pension fund, which will last a year. They will then have to borrow to not only pay the welfare bills and other obligations, but also repay the money taken from the pension fund.

All this whilst not being able to borrow any money, or if they can, at similar rates to Argentina.

Fratton Fred

ascanbe wrote: »

If those who borrowed the money, private banks, can't pay it back then those who lent it irresponsibly, other private institutions, are. Lending money is a gamble you take in order to make a profit; if you lend unwisely to a person/institution that cannot repay the debt, then that's your problem.
That's it in simple terms.

So what will happen when those banks come looking for their money back?

It is the Irish banks that lent recklessly.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Fratton Fred wrote: »

And you want the German, British and French to take the pain?

Well we're all in the EU. I have no debts I cannot repay so why exactly should I take the pain any more than one of the above?

Krusader

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So what will happen when those banks come looking for their money back?

It is the Irish banks that lent recklessly.

Yes the Irish banks lent recklessly, and the European banks lent recklessly to them, all private companies. They are making a private debt a public sovereign debt. We are rewarding failure with this bailout, it is immoral and unethical

shampon

I'll vote for them when they stop engaging in rampant criminality. Anybody who thinks FF gave jobs to the boys is in for a huge shock if Gerry and his mates enter into any coalition...

Fratton Fred

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Well we're all in the EU. I have no debts I cannot repay so why exactly should I take the pain any more than one of the above?

I'm not old, I'm not a single mother, I'm not a civil servant, I'm not unemployed, why should I pay extra taxes for them?

LordSutch

shampon wrote: »

I'll vote for them when they stop engaging in rampant criminality. Anybody who thinks FF gave jobs to the boys is in for a huge shock if Gerry and his mates enter into any coalition...

Well, I would never vote for them, not now & not ever, and people who do vote for them are either true 'Irish Republicans' who agree with everything that SF stands for (including the PIRAs campaign), or they are just too young to remember? hence some young folk just see SF as just another political party (with no vile baggage) . . . . .

Fratton Fred

Crosáidí wrote: »

Yes the Irish banks lent recklessly, and the European banks lent recklessly to them, all private companies. They are making a private debt a public sovereign debt. We are rewarding failure with this bailout, it is immoral and unethical

Lending money to a bank that has a good credit rating isn't necessarily reckless. Giving someone a mortgage they can't afford so they can buy a third buy to let property is.

What you are proposing is the complete collapse if the Irish banking system. Have you thought what that means?

shampon

LordSutch wrote: »

Well, I would never vote for them, not now & not ever, and people who do are either true Irish Republicans who agree with everything that SF stands for (including the PIRAs campaign), or they are just too young to remember, hence they see SF as just another political party (with no vile baggage) . . . . .

I should have added that the day that Sinn Fein refuse to engage in rampant criminality is the day hell freezes over. I never intend to vote for that shower of *****. Anyone who votes for them is a beery eyed idiot with an ill-informed opinion on what they did for the country, which was kill mothers, bomb Belfast and kill the people they were supposed to be protecting...they are perhaps bigger hypocrites than FF. AND THAT IS HARD.

shampon

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Lending money to a bank that has a good credit rating isn't necessarily reckless. Giving someone a mortgage they can't afford so they can buy a third buy to let property is.

What you are proposing is the complete collapse if the Irish banking system. Have you thought what that means?

Man seriously save your breath, talking to these so called Gealgors with Irish names is like pissing against the wind while talking to a wall.

COYW

lugha wrote: »

I tell you, if I heard any serious party seriously suggest that that they would give the two fingers to the EMF, I would be down to my local bank as fast as my little legs could carry me, and withdraw every last cent I have on deposit. And anyone else with deposits would be foolish not to do the same.

Of course, they would. I have already ceased doing any business with any of the irish banks. If SFs economic policies were implemented, anyone with a shread of sense would go down to their nearest branch with a suitcase and withdraw all their savings in euro.

K-9 wrote: »

As for it being an example, I'm not sure. Wages down 10/15% after devaluation, 63% of households in mortgage arrears, 40% technically insolvent, stuff like that suggests it isn't quite the SF utopia they'd like us to believe.

You have to look at the people who vote for SF. I come from a lower class background, proper working class. I was back home last week and got talking to people in the area. Everyone one of them to a man is voting for SF. The points quoted above dont have any impact on them. All they hear is that SF is going to reverse their welfare cuts, so that means they will have the same money as before to get drunk at the weekend, dabble in their drug of choice and go to Spain for 2 weeks in the summer.

The devaluation in wages means nothing to them because they dont work, most never have in the 20+ years I have know them and they have no interest in working, ever. Obviously, they live in council accommodation, so mortgages mean nothing to them and insolvency is away with mars.

Krusader

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Lending money to a bank that has a good credit rating isn't necessarily reckless. Giving someone a mortgage they can't afford so they can buy a third buy to let property is.

What you are proposing is the complete collapse if the Irish banking system. Have you thought what that means?

Iceland did it and are showing growth of 3% now

We have nobel prize winning economists saying what they did is right and what we are doing is wrong

“Iceland did the right thing by making sure its payment systems continued to function while creditors, not the taxpayers, shouldered the losses of banks,” says Nobel laureate Joseph Stiglitz, an economics professor at Columbia University in New York. “Ireland’s done all the wrong things, on the other hand. That’s probably the worst model.”

Arnason will have a better chance of keeping his countrymen home if Iceland can resume growth as predicted. It would also help prove his predecessors were right to let the country’s banks fail: Ireland, which rescued its financial institutions, is on the way to shrinking for a fourth consecutive year.

Krusader

COYW wrote: »

The devaluation in wages means nothing to them because they dont work, most never have in the 20+ years I have know them and they have no interest in working, ever. Obviously, they live in council accommodation, so mortgages mean nothing to them and insolvency is away with mars.

Most people i know like this wouldn't even bother voting, because they know nothing will change either way, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, which in a way is effectually true.

case in point, before the budget Cowen's wage was 13 times greater than the minimum wage after the budget it was 14 times greater than the minimum wage, as stated by Enda Kenny

The gap between rich and poor is forever widening

Dionysus

Fratton Fred wrote: »

This is just looking for someone else to pick up debts run up in Ireland.

The people that lent recklessly were AIB, BofI, Anglo etc. It is their customers that can't pay, mainly because of a ridiculously inflated property bubble created by greed in Ireland and the crazy policies of the Irish government.

And you want the German, British and French to take the pain?

Clearly, and obviously, Irish banks weren't the only people who "lent recklessly". The notion that Irish taxpayers have an obligation to compensate the gamblers in an Irish bank - never mind in a French, British or German bank - is preposterous. They took the risk. They clearly lost - but in this brave new capitalist world these foreign banks are not losing because their losses are expected to be covered by Irish taxpayers. "Capitalism" how are you.

Fratton Fred

Crosáidí wrote: »

Iceland did it and are showing growth of 3% now

We have nobel prize winning economists saying what they did is right and what we are doing is wrong

Iceland has received aid from the IMF and also still needs to settle its debts with Germany and the UK.

SF are proposing to tell the IMF to piss off.

Fratton Fred

Dionysus wrote: »

Clearly, and obviously, Irish banks weren't the only people who "lent recklessly". The notion that Irish taxpayers have an obligation to compensate the gamblers in an Irish bank - never mind in a French, British or German bank - is preposterous. They took the risk. They clearly lost - but in this brave new capitalist world these foreign banks are not losing because their losses are expected to be covered by Irish taxpayers. "Capitalism" how are you.

So Irish tax payers can go off and live it large on credit and then turn around to the banks and tell them to piss off?

What will you do when those banks want their money back? Sell off the assets they were secured against?

Liquidate AIB, Anglo and BofI?

Highly Salami

douglashyde wrote: »

read this: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0125/breaking20.html

If you vote for an idealistic mad party which think the solution to Ireland's problem "defaulting" our banks is a good idea - then by all means, work away and exercise your right to throw away your vote.

not a traditional Sinn Fein supporter here, and will probably vote for Fine Gael, but I think defaulting our banks is an excellent idea.

jimmycrackcorm

Highly Salami wrote: »

... but I think defaulting our banks is an excellent idea.

Do you understand the implications?
Do you know what the difference is between defaulting the banks pre-guarantee and post-guarantee?

danbohan

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So Irish tax payers can go off and live it large on credit and then turn around to the banks and tell them to piss off?

What will you do when those banks want their money back? Sell off the assets they were secured against?

Liquidate AIB, Anglo and BofI?

the irish taxpayers cannot afford to repay these debts , it is just not possible to be paying 9-12 billion per year and still maintain any semblance of services in this country

but then maybe you would be happy to see us all barefoot and eating grass !

get_d_hand_in

Not a hope. The apple never falls far feom the tree...

If Sf in charge the banks may have been emptied in another fashion.

pwd

No I dont agree that killing babies is acceptable as collateral damage.
Vote for an independent who supports direct democracy if there is one available.

Fratton Fred

danbohan wrote: »

the irish taxpayers cannot afford to repay these debts , it is just not possible to be paying 9-12 billion per year and still maintain any semblance of services in this country

but then maybe you would be happy to see us all barefoot and eating grass !

You seem to think I am immune to the cuts and tax rises?

danbohan

Fratton Fred wrote: »

You seem to think I am immune to the cuts and tax rises?

nobody in dalkey pays taxes fred , ''tax is for the little people ''!

Fratton Fred

danbohan wrote: »

nobody in dalkey pays taxes fred , ''tax is for the little people ''!

Have you seen how much tax there is on a bottle of chateuneuf du pape.?

danbohan

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Have you seen how much tax there is on a bottle of chateuneuf du pape.?

no idea fred , but keep the bottles they make excellent petrol bombs , we will collect

Krusader

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So Irish tax payers can go off and live it large on credit and then turn around to the banks and tell them to piss off?

What will you do when those banks want their money back? Sell off the assets they were secured against?

Liquidate AIB, Anglo and BofI?

The majority of Irish people are still paying back their mortgages, credit card bills etc. granted there's a few that can't afford too.
But on top of that they have to pay back this bailout, which will probably last close to a generation.
We will have another 3 years of cuts in this 4 year plan and then possibly more that's if we get that far, we probably will end up defaulting. I sense there will be mass rioting in Ireland within the next few years. Where Lendahand slipped up was the bank guarantee, he should of just guaranteed people's deposits but instead he guaranteed them and all the banks' debts

If you owned a business and got a loan out and failed to pay back that loan, should the irish people be saddled with paying back your loan. NO!

gizmo

Crosáidí wrote: »

The majority of Irish people are still paying back their mortgages, credit card bills etc. granted there's a few that can't afford too.
But on top of that they have to pay back this bailout, which will probably last close to a generation.

This is the type of populist nonsense constantly repeated by Labour and SF and it irks me every time I've read it. We're all aware our taxes are going to wards the bailout but for the love of God stop comparing it to credit card debts et al, there is no comparison and it just ends up sounding ridiculous.

Crosáidí wrote: »

We will have another 3 years of cuts in this 4 year plan and then possibly more that's if we get that far, we probably will end up defaulting. I sense there will be mass rioting in Ireland within the next few years.

The latest Lansdowne opinion poll which can be read in today's Independent (if you want to inflict that rag upon yourself) shows that over 60% of Irish people would prefer spending cuts to tax increases. These would be required whether we had the bailout or not so outside of some fringe loons, I don't think we'll see mass rioting any time soon.

ascanbe

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So Irish tax payers can go off and live it large on credit and then turn around to the banks and tell them to piss off?

What will you do when those banks want their money back? Sell off the assets they were secured against?

Liquidate AIB, Anglo and BofI?

Orderly defaults are not uncommon and there is no history of them resulting in the armageddon type circumstances being outlined by some here.
Regarding responsibility for the debt:
Our banks, private institutuions, borrowed money from other private institutions, and lent it to people who, ultimately, would be unable to repay it, i.e. both our banks and those they borrowed from made bad loans.
The people in charge of these banks failed to run their institutions properly.
Our government failed to regulate our banks properly: they were allowed to make these risky loans.
France, Germany etc. also failed to regulate their banks properly: they were allowed to make these risky loans.
The EU/ECB/Commitee of European Bank Supervisors, responsible for carrying out stress tests, oversight etc. failed to regulate the European banking sector properly.
Yet the Irish tax-payer is being held entirely responsible for this debt.
And you think that is right?
If the Irish tax-payer is responsible then tax-payer's in countries whose institutions lent to our banks are equally responsible and the debt should be federalised across Europe.
By rights, though, these banks/gamblers are responsible for their own debt; they lent this money in order to make a profit and they lost.
That's how free-market capitalism is supposed to work.

Fratton Fred

Have you been on a different planet for tje last three years?

German, French and British banks have received billions already. RBS is state owned, Lehmanns went bust, HSBC was given billions.

Every country has been through it, but for some reason the problem is far far bigger in Ireland.

Irish tax payers are not shouldering the burden for Europe, just their bit.

This is 100% the fault of the greedy incompetent government, but it is the Irish government and therefore the problem lies with the Irish tax payer.

Highly Salami

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Do you understand the implications?
Do you know what the difference is between defaulting the banks pre-guarantee and post-guarantee?

not sure, sounds like it is best to wait for the guarantee to expire before defaulting.

ascanbe

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Have you been on a different planet for tje last three years?

German, French and British banks have received billions already. RBS is state owned, Lehmanns went bust, HSBC was given billions.

Every country has been through it, but for some reason the problem is far far bigger in Ireland.

Irish tax payers are not shouldering the burden for Europe, just their bit.

This is 100% the fault of the greedy incompetent government, but it is the Irish government and therefore the problem lies with the Irish tax payer.

The money the banks you refer to received was mainly for re-capitalisation/to ensure stability; not to pay-off every bondholder etc.
Our govt. has also already put billions into our banks: and it will take more to ensure a healthy banking sector.
But how is all the debt being lumbered on us the Irish tax-payers responsibility?
You attest that it is our responsibility because of our 'greedy, incompetent government'. Our government didn't borrow this money, though; they failed to regulate our banks properly.
The countries whose institutions made these loans to our banks also failed to regulate properly; their banks made these risky loans to our banks in order to make a profit and got it wrong.
Our banks and the banks who made these bad loans to our banks are equally culpable.
Our government and the government's of countries whose banks lent to our banks are equally culpable.
Why the hell should the Irish tax-payer be responsible for carrying the can for everyone involved in these transactions?

K-9

Crosáidí wrote: »

Iceland did it and are showing growth of 3% now

We have nobel prize winning economists saying what they did is right and what we are doing is wrong

I'm sure the ordinary Icelander can take comfort in what Mr.Stiglitz says.

Iceland are developing energy resources we don't have, so is Greenland for that matter. We do have energy resources like wind that we should be developing but our Govt. pays it lip service, plus we have archaic planning laws.

Fratton Fred

ascanbe wrote: »

The money the banks you refer to received was mainly for re-capitalisation/to ensure stability; not to pay-off every bondholder etc.
Our govt. has also already put billions into our banks: and it will take more to ensure a healthy banking sector.
But how is all the debt being lumbered on us the Irish tax-payers responsibility?
You attest that it is our responsibility because of our 'greedy, incompetent government'. Our government didn't borrow this money, though; they failed to regulate our banks properly.
The countries whose institutions made these loans to our banks also failed to regulate properly; their banks made these risky loans to our banks in order to make a profit and got it wrong.
Our banks and the banks who made these bad loans to our banks are equally culpable.
Our government and the government's of countries whose banks lent to our banks are equally culpable.
Why the hell should the Irish tax-payer be responsible for carrying the can for everyone involved in these transactions?

Why do you think it is that the problem in Ireland is bigger than anywhere else?

Have you read the Irish eyes are crying thread?

Krusader

K-9 wrote: »

I'm sure the ordinary Icelander can take comfort in what Mr.Stiglitz says.

Iceland are developing energy resources we don't have, so is Greenland for that matter. We do have energy resources like wind that we should be developing but our Govt. pays it lip service, plus we have archaic planning laws.

Unemployment in iceland has dropped by 2% over the last few months though in Iceland

Krusader

gizmo wrote: »

This is the type of populist nonsense constantly repeated by Labour and SF and it irks me every time I've read it. We're all aware our taxes are going to wards the bailout but for the love of God stop comparing it to credit card debts et al, there is no comparison and it just ends up sounding ridiculous.

You've missed my point, and try not to be condescending, it makes you sound ridiculous

ascanbe

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Why do you think it is that the problem in Ireland is bigger than anywhere else?

Have you read the Irish eyes are crying thread?

I'm well aware of the reasons; the main one being the insane blanket bank guarantee.
The new govt. should disown this guarantee and hold a proper investigation into what led to it and the actions of the politicians/bankers involved in it.
The country simply cannot bear this debt and will collapse in trying to.

K-9

Crosáidí wrote: »

Unemployment in iceland has dropped by 2% over the last few months though in Iceland

Because of an aluminium facility and energy sources, nothing to do with banks.

gizmo

Crosáidí wrote: »

You've missed my point, and try not to be condescending, it makes you sound ridiculous

I'm not trying to be condescending in the slightest, apologies if it came across that way. As for your point however, if I have missed it then I'd appreciate if you'd clarify it as all I can see is the silly comparison I disagreed with above.

Krusader

No problem
I was comparing anything, Fratton Fred put it to us that we the Irish people got huge line of credit from banks and then not wanting to pay it back,
(this is kinda funny as banks create money from nothing through the Fractional Reserve System)
but the majority of people are paying their debts back and now they will have to pay the banks' debt aswell, so we are now paying our own debt and the banks' debt, on top of that interest rates for PTSB are going up 1% tomorrow, i'm sure the rest of the banks will follow suit. it is never-ending

I'm not really a fan of SF but their stance on defaulting i agree with 100%, some of their other economic policies I wouldn't comptemplate supporting

COYW

Crosáidí wrote: »

Most people i know like this wouldn't even bother voting, because they know nothing will change either way, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, which in a way is effectually true.

The gap between rich and poor is forever widening

Well, then your educate yourself, progress yourself and make it change for you. Sitting around being defeatist and moaning about it isnt going to make things better. I came from a very working class background and thankfully I am very comfortably off now.

I worked 4 days a week, two 10 hour shifts in a petrol station on Sat and Sun whilst doing my uni undergrad. I lived at home and commuted. I did very well in my leaving cert but could only afford to go to the closest uni to my home as a result of family finances. After my undergrad, I completed my postgraduate studies after receiving a scholarship from another national university.

In my first job which was in one of our problem banks, I was regularly bullied because I lived in a council area.

I could have said, all those rich b*st*rds have it in for me, thrown in the towel, went back home and lived, very nicely I might add, off the dole but I didnt. I stuck with it because I wanted to progress myself.

gizmo

Crosáidí wrote: »

No problem
I was comparing anything, Fratton Fred put it to us that we the Irish people got huge line of credit from banks and then not wanting to pay it back,
(this is kinda funny as banks create money from nothing through the Fractional Reserve System)
but the majority of people are paying their debts back and now they will have to pay the banks' debt aswell, so we are now paying our own debt and the banks' debt, on top of that interest rates for PTSB are going up 1% tomorrow, i'm sure the rest of the banks will follow suit. it is never-ending

I'm not really a fan of SF but their stance on defaulting i agree with 100%, some of their other economic policies I wouldn't comptemplate supporting

Ah, that's the context I was missing, thanks.

As for the defaulting argument, well take a look at this post over in the thread regarding Sinn Fein's 10 Point Plan. I'd be interested to hear your opinion on the point he makes regarding the lenders treatment of us if SF were to follow through with their policies. On a sidenote, the thread itself and said post sums up why I wouldn't vote for them.

mloc

Vote for SF? No thanks.

With few fairly un-notable exceptions, a bunch of dangerously left-wing ex-terrorists or supporters of ex-terrorists with an economic policy that would put us into the dark ages.

UDAWINNER

COYW wrote: »

Well, then your educate yourself, progress yourself and make it change for you. Sitting around being defeatist and moaning about it isnt going to make things better. I came from a very working class background and thankfully I am very comfortably off now.

I worked 4 days a week, two 10 hour shifts in a petrol station on Sat and Sun whilst doing my uni undergrad. I lived at home and commuted. I did very well in my leaving cert but could only afford to go to the closest uni to my home as a result of family finances. After my undergrad, I completed my postgraduate studies after receiving a scholarship from another national university.

In my first job which was in one of our problem banks, I was regularly bullied because I lived in a council area.

I could have said, all those rich b*st*rds have it in for me, thrown in the towel, went back home and lived, very nicely I might add, off the dole but I didnt. I stuck with it because I wanted to progress myself.

keep it on toplic, not another poor guy did well story.

Krusader

Read this article it's interesting, the Icelandic CEO's of their banks are basically telling us to default on the debt

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-01/iceland-proves-ireland-did-wrong-things-saving-banks-instead-of-taxpayer.html

Of course we'll be burnt for a few years but just a few not a generation that a €100bn will do

Fratton Fred

ascanbe wrote: »

I'm well aware of the reasons; the main one being the insane blanket bank guarantee.
The new govt. should disown this guarantee and hold a proper investigation into what led to it and the actions of the politicians/bankers involved in it.
The country simply cannot bear this debt and will collapse in trying to.

The country hasn't been paying it's way for years, it has been using credit to get by. I don't mean everyone is putting everything on credit cards, what I mean is this.

Everybody rushed out and bought a new house, pushing the price of houses up. 12% of all these purchases went into state funds by way of stamp duty. House prices go up, meaning everyone has large amounts of equity, so they all rush out and buy a new, vastly more expensive house and as the bank gave them more than they needed, they bought a new Audi A3 and a 40" plasma tv. Again, another 12% stamp duty, 15% vrt and 21% vat going into government coffers.

Government created thousands of overpaid public sector jobs, meaning more people have money to burn, so they go and get a mortgage and buy a second property to rent it out to Polish builders. even more stamp duty.

Government create schemes to help the buy to let market, pushing prices up further, meaning even more stamp duty into the pot. More Poles move over to help build all these houses, therefore more demand, prices go up, people have more equity, can borrow more so buy another apartment to rent out. even more stamp duty.

Government cut tax and up the minimum wage, so people can borrow more to spend on houses and cars.

Effectively, people were borrowing money from the banks and 12 to 15% was ending up straight into government funds as either stamp duty or VRT. And people claimed they were in a low tax economy.

Then the lines of credit dried up and people stopped buying houses and cars. the government lost it's two biggest sources of income. Then, because all the building stopped, all the Poles went home, so everyone with a second or third property had no one to lend to.

But, apparently, this is all the fault of the German, British and French banks, so they should pay for it?

mickydoomsux

Fratton Fred wrote: »

But, apparently, this is all the fault of the German, British and French banks, so they should pay for it?

Your entire post was fantastic but this point is very important.

We as a nation should be absolutely falling over backwards to thank the EU and IMF who are at least giving us a way out of the current mess we put ourselves in. The Germans, British and French are what is standing between us and complete and utter collapse which no one besides utter economically illiterate buffoons like SF really wants to experience.

If we default on our national debt or reject the IMF bailout like SF are advocating then we will be utterly doomed.

Wolfe Tone

What would happen in europe if our entire economy and banking sector where to implode?

Fratton Fred

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

What would happen in europe if our entire economy and banking sector where to implode?

Personally, I think the Euro would be so tainted by it, they would be forced into giving Ireland two choices, take this very large, very painful medicine (to be taken as a suppository) and become our bitch for the next five years while we sort you out. or **** off.

Wolfe Tone

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Personally, I think the Euro would be so tainted by it, they would be forced into giving Ireland two choices, take this very large, very painful medicine (to be taken as a suppository) and become our bitch for the next five years while we sort you out. or **** off.

If our banks hit the floor and default on everything what sort of damage would that do to europes banks? No doubt they would suffer, could it tip spain over the edge in knock on effects?