3 New Navy Vessels for Irish Naval Service

roadmaster

So the Navy want helicopters

The Army want boats

Do the air corps want apcs?

Gary kk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118815787#Comment_118815787

Plastic ones with inflatable wings would be the preference

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118815787#Comment_118815787

What does the RAF regiment have?

ancientmariner

Rational thinking and integration of capability in a force requires military boating for tasks such as river fording/bridging and overt river patrolling. All actions at sea are improved by in Fleet helicopter services, from SAR to weapon deployment including ASW weapons. Very few ships ,including OPV's, don't have Flight decks or operate drones from Flight decks. Not all ships retain helicopters on board but are available for exigencies and routines such as Vertrep and HIFR for stores and fuelling.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118816155#Comment_118816155

They have all the tools to enable deployment and force protection of an air element, whether its combat or support.

So they have engineering equipment, defensive artillery, anti aircraft weaponry and protected patrol vehicles like the Jackal.

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118815787#Comment_118815787

Engineering Corps have always had boats.

But otherwise, you are fukin hilarious.

roadmaster

On a serious note for a country our size and a military we have we should be looking to have a lot of synergies between the different arms. I know the CoDF said similar but we should be looking at a fully intergreated DF. Even like Labre mentioned having a college similar to National marine college for aviation would be great idea.

If the likes of an Air Corps Base was established in shannon i would close sarsfield and move the units out to a new joint army/air corps base at shannon. I know its small things but you would save on everything from guard duty to canteens and stores.

If a Naval base is established on the east coast i would CPO lands on the south side of the liffey and have a joint naval/army base there.

If we got naval helicopters for future OPVs you could have them still air corps for practical reasons but have in the pilots and crew contracts when they sign up every 5 years they have to do a 6/12 month stint attached to the navy

ancientmariner

It is certain in the Defence business that all arms will have to interact in the task and work to some degree in each others environments. it would seem critical to have frequent training so that we can do so as seamlessly as possible. The squeeze points are who will supply naval aviation and who will land a fighting force wherever it is demanded. During the Civil war it was frequently done with unofficial support from the RN. We must now open the Handbooks on Defence and Military Operations and do things in a relevant fashion. Operating in closed Silos is counter-productive.

Since this thread is about new naval vessels, around 350 tonne class, with armament to be selected. How about Oerlikon Millennium Gun and/or DENEL 35mm all with ammunition varieties including AHEAD ammo for in-coming missile defence. The latter is bolt on with no penetrations.

jonnybigwallet

That sounds like just the ticket to me! I wonder would some of those fast attack craft made by Safehaven Marine be a usesful addition?

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118820121#Comment_118820121

Jonny please please tell me you made a submission to the CoDF

jonnybigwallet

Typin it up as we speak Roadie!

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118820469#Comment_118820469

You might be a bit late…

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118820670#Comment_118820670

JB has only ever been early for one thing in his life.

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118815889#Comment_118815889

Enter the Aerogavin.

http://www.combatreform.org/tanksthatfly.htm

Tabnabs

A few interesting bits of info in this article.

Collection of €22m navy ships from New Zealand thwarted by lack of personnel

A lack of personnel will likely prevent the Naval Service from bringing home two ships it has bought from New Zealand.

The two vessels purchased by the Government from the New Zealand Royal Navy (NZRN) are likely to be transported to Ireland by special container ship as the personnel crisis in the Naval Service means it is unlikely it could release crews to go out and sail them back here.

It is believed the voyage could take up to six weeks, but even before that happens the New Zealanders will have to bring the ships up to operational standards.

The Government purchased the inshore patrol vessels, HMNZS Rotoiti and HMNZS Pukaki, for NZ$36m (€22.62m).

However, a condition of sale is that the two ships, which have been mothballed for some time, will be brought back to operational standard. According to the NZRN, that is likely to cost anything up to €11.9m.

The News Zealanders will bear the cost of that.

The ships were mothballed because they did not fit in with New Zealand’s needed for longer range vessels.

The Irish Government purchased them because they are viewed as ideal for fishery protection duties in the Irish Sea. The need for such patrols there was forced on the Government by Brexit.

They are smaller than the P60s (such as LÉ Samuel Beckett and LÉ George Bernard Shaw) which the Naval Service uses for patrols in the Atlantic.

More robust vessels

The Naval Service needs these larger, more robust vessels, because of the rougher weather that is encountered in the Atlantic.

The weather in the Irish Sea is less volatile and therefore ideal for the smaller New Zealand ‘Lake Class’ ships, which are 55m long (180ft.) They also have smaller crews. The P60s have crews of about 45 each, whereas the New Zealand ships can be crewed by as few as 25.

Even at that, the Naval Service could not afford to send two crews down to New Zealand to pick them up and sail them back as it is currently short about 200 personnel of the minimum 1,094 it needs.

The chief of the New Zealand Royal Navy, Rear Admiral David Proctor, said once the ships are brought up to operational standard, he expects them to be shipped to Ireland early next year.

It is likely that New Zealand navy specialists will fly to Ireland to instruct the Naval Service on their use.

The two vessels, which were commissioned by the NZRN in 2009, will be based on the east coast, probably around Dublin or Dún Laoghaire.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40834379.html

roadmaster

I dont know why the examiner is making an issue of them being transported back. When the army got the mowags they didnt drive them back from the factory. It makes sense to get them delivered

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118824478#Comment_118824478

Oh god not him, anything but him…

Didn't think you’d be a fan?😜

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118824790#Comment_118824790

And from memory other navies have at times used sealifts (even without the ships being damaged), so it’s not a major issue, though it should get more attention that NZ is paying a chunk of the costs to bring them back into service.

Larbre34

Clickbait from the Examiner. Even in the event of a full personnel roster, it would be very highly unlikely that 50 crew would be sent to the southern hemisphere and be gone for two months or more to pilot the ships back.

Freight by ship is the best option for all reasons.

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118825554#Comment_118825554

When we send our ships to the other side of the world, every refuelling stop along the way is a Shindig aboard for the Local Consulate and the Diaspora. We haven't the time to do that with 2 smaller ships.

The examiner is clutching straws with this one.

Larbre34

They sure are.

Even without any shindigs, if 50 crew were actually sent on a month's long deployment to bring the ships home, the same feckin journos would be asking why such an inefficient option was being chosen.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118826469#Comment_118826469

Isn't always the same, I’m sure if the budget does increase, the same Journos who have happily been pointing out the issues, will be the same ones who start pointing out what else could be bought instead.

ancientmariner

Professional adventure. From Auckland to Cork is about 10,000NM. Range of Craft is 3000nm. Retain one third fuel, stop and refuel 5 to 7 times. At 14.5 knots and 7 by two-day stops it could be done in about 44 days. Bring RNZN advisory group of 1 Seaman Officer, 1 Engineer, I Bosun, and 1 Electrical on each craft. Route Auckland-North Australia-Indonesia- Malaysia-Sri Lanka-Red Sea- Suez Canal-Gibraltar- Cork.

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118827412#Comment_118827412

As deck cargo the ships can be delivered within 2 weeks. You should know better than to suggest a coastal vessel engage on a transoceanic voyage. Particularly one that is currently without classification.

You aren't helping.

Gary kk

The only ocean would be between NZ and Oz the rest has could be coast hopped

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118828112#Comment_118828112

Still a stupid idea. We have neither crew nor time to be **** around in the Indian ocean for 2 months. The Article is nonsense, anyone with any naval knowledge can see this. presumably the author just needed something to give to his editor before a deadline, and made up a story.

ancientmariner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118827796#Comment_118827796

The Ciara and Orla came home from Hong Kong in the 1980's as CPV's. Cannot be done in 2 weeks , from NZ, unless the lifter does it at 30 knots with NO stop. We have only held class, for one year, on new Naval vessels to cover guarantees . You acquire some knowledge when you have done that type of trip from the Far East to UK for 5 years and puddled around with our Navy for 32 years including bringing home wooden CMS and the Setanta. The RNZN officers suggested bringing them home to Cork via the Pacific and Panama Canal . However if the current Navy want them delivered dry shod that's their choice. The other way would prove the ships and hone the crews. Knowing better has demilitarised two branches of our PDF.

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118829994#Comment_118829994

From memory, we collected both Peacocks from Scotland, after the RN had already shipped them back from Hong Kong as Deck cargo. The Sweepers were being stored in Gibraltar when we took them under control.

You can throw breaks all you like, but you know the suggestion is nonsense. This isn't the 1980s.

ancientmariner

The RN sailed the Peacocks from Hong Kong to the UK, some Irish personnel , including a young Rory Costelloe, joined them in the Mediterranean for familiarisation, and a trip back to the UK, including a gunnery shoot. They may have been handed over in Scotland. I crewed on BANBA from Gibraltar. How do you prove 3000 NM range as we did with the P21 class to Haifa.

jonnybigwallet

I see in an article in the Examiner on 22nd that Mr.Coveney is announcing his "action plan" for the DF in June.

Not long to go, and will be pretty interesting to see if he can make some decent moves towards paying proper remuneration; Also what is going to be the level of investment in new hardware and when.....

Watch this space!

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