3 New Navy Vessels for Irish Naval Service

jonnybigwallet

I'll explain what the role and purpose of a MRV is a bit later when I have the time. That may help to put my remarks into perspective. I'm thinking along the lines of that Dutch vessel that came into service about 25 years ago (if any of yiz can remember).

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118910436#Comment_118910436

Please stop.

jonnybigwallet

I haven't even started yet.

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118911450#Comment_118911450

Please don't.

If yo are going to start talking about HNLMS Rotterdam, then you are way off track.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118911560#Comment_118911560

Jonny…Off track…

That almost never happens surely.

BrandyRebel

I see Houlder and Prevail have a Fleet Support MRV based on a roll/on roll off ferry but that might be pie in the sky

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118913598#Comment_118913598

From a quick google, yeah can't see it, its well beyond what the NS has been looking at, and from memory that proposed development for the RN hasn't progressed either.

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118913598#Comment_118913598

When was the last time you took a ferry? Just wondering. That's not "based on a ferry".

A closer look at the Littoral Strike Ship concept | Navy Lookout

Tabnabs

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

eg.

Further, are you saying the Point-Class Sealift ship isn't a Ro-Pax capable vessel?

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118915013#Comment_118915013

That's exactly what I'm saying.

Ro-Ro freight? Yes.

Lo-Lo freight? Yes. Not ideal though.

Pax? Hell no.

See them windows on green and white ship above? They be for crew, not talking freight.

sparky42

It's also a moot point, something along those lines isn't even close to being in the running and as I said has fallen away from the RN Radar as well last I checked.

Tabnabs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118915571#Comment_118915571

Except these ships can all sail in RoPax configuration. Them little windows also include capacity for 12 passengers. Which in layman's terms, means a freight ferry.

The FLSS concept is absolutely based on the same design of ship.

jonnybigwallet

Bloody ugly looking thing!

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118915686#Comment_118915686

What is it licenced for? Those passenger cabins are usually for Panama Pilots.

Leonidas BL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118917411#Comment_118917411

Is it a beauty competition?

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118918689#Comment_118918689

while Function should top Form, some ship designs are just ugly as sin.

thomil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118917411#Comment_118917411

If you think this is bad, you should check out some of the pre-dreadnought battleships of the French Navy. You'd swear their aim was to throw off the enemy's aim by permanently blinding their gunners...

Gary kk

Some of those old war ships where just amazing looking. Floating hotels with guns.

Tabnabs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118917915#Comment_118917915

You're likely getting confused with Suez riding gang accommodation, which is very different in nature. The pilots cabin, when provided, is a single cabin adjacent to the bridge.

These ships are licenced to carry up to 12 passengers, usually freight accompanying driver, but not always. There are some that will take non freight passengers also, if spare capacity is available.

The Falklands War showed the versatility and usefulness of this class of civilian vessel.

ancientmariner

Selecting a ship for Multirole tasking will require the planners to nail down the roles to be undertaken. it could be any or all of the Fleet logistic and Support tasks at sea. It can vary through Command Ship, replenishment tasks, HADR support, Transport tasks including insertion of troops and equipment, MCM mother/support ship. ETC.

The design task for the hull and it's openings is to avoid ingress of water onto large area internal spaces where you are faced with immediate instability caused by Free Surface Effect, which is the length of space X the breadth of space cubed, divided by 12 times the displacement of the vessel all in feet. The Herald of Free Enterprise went down ( turned over) losing 193 lives. Later the Estonia was lost in the Baltic with a flooded car deck losing hundreds of lives. RO-Ro's or any ships with openings, other than ships designed to be opened like LPD's, should NOT open up even at anchor. Ramped openings should only be used in port.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118920478#Comment_118920478

Jesus yeah, I mean what the hell were the designers thinking about? I guess they were hoping that any enemy would die laughing at the things before combat?

Dohvolle

I always thought HMS Hood and her contemporaries were hideously ugly, saved only in history by their service, and end.

Turrets piled high, rangefinders above, secondary guns randomly on the main deck, conning ridiculously high. Spotting top stuff of nosebleeds.

jonnybigwallet

Design is very dated...on the other hand the Bismark and other German ships if that era looked pretty cool.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118922719#Comment_118922719

You have to remember Hood was really the first “Post Jutland” design incorporating some of the lessons learned while dealing with the compromises of the BC design, for example the secondaries are like that as the lower ones in older designs both flooded in rough seas and were a greater risk in combat. It’s a pity she never had the chance for her full QE still refit.

That being said, she was a lot better than the Japanese hulls.

ancientmariner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118923276#Comment_118923276

All ships have vulnerabilities. HOOD was hit by a 15 inch shell from Bismarck which may have caused her 4 inch magazine to explode, which in turn caused her 15 inch magazine to also explode. The recent explosions on the Russian Cruiser off Crimea shows the absolute necessity to defend major assets. Somebody wasn't keyed up in Defence OR it was a self inflicted accident. All magazines are fully floodable for safety reasons from the ship's DCHQ,

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118926291#Comment_118926291

There’s still some debate as to what the exact cause of the Hoods explosion was though, from the magazine detonation, to a short shell that went under the armour…I doubt anyone will ever really know for sure. The BC as a design were always a flawed weapon particularly if forced into a fight with a true BB, but the RN had nothing else to use at that stage.

Hard to see how the Russian cruiser could have such flooding capabilities given the positioning of the main weapon systems, it will be interesting to see where the damage is on him when/if they get back to port. But it’s not unique, remember that Israeli corvette that got hit a decade ago because their systems weren’t online.

ancientmariner

The battle cruiser was a good idea incorrectly used. With lighter armour, higher speed, and firepower the equivalent of a BB, they should have been used like a destroyer and not in the line like a BB. A 15 inch salvo incoming would always be fatal with light armour. Eventually, all the big ships were used , as fire power support, for partially unopposed landings , including Vietnam.

In the Russian ship case the deck launchers may not have had reloads but they still would have magazines for gun rounds and miscellaneous munitions. Magazines are always floodable including ready use lockers on deck.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118928369#Comment_118928369

You stick BB grade weapons on a ship that fast and sooner or later either by choice or circumstances they are going to end up facing a BB, and they are always going to come out second best. Fisher had some good ideas and some bad ones, and that’s not even touching the Follies or his even crazier HMS Incomparable. But yeah the eventual end for the BBS were either fast escorts for the carriers or just fire support.

In terms of the Russians, given what we have seen from both their army and Air Force so far, and previous examples from the Navy I would wonder how trained for actual combat damage his crew were? How good was h material conditions (ie was all his DC capabilities working?), the planned refit a few years ago had already been postponed due to budget issues. And realistically if the explosion was in or around the main missiles could the ship have been saved at all?

Dohvolle

Well, the magazine on Moskva are definitely flooded now.

sparky42

Well at least Vlad can be happy that the Ukrainian farmers can’t make off with it like they’ve been doing with his army…