3 New Navy Vessels for Irish Naval Service

BrandyRebel

https://www.mayonews.ie/comment-opinion/down-memory-lane/37179-when-blacksod-was-to-be-the-empire-s-crossroad

ancientmariner

New Zealand Navy do and can operate from a number of bases. There are 4 bases listed in their own admin releases and several training units for reserves.

In our case we have only ONE ready berth for 9 ships which is also the fuelling and resupply berth for in-coming oils from refineries. Haulbowline is strangled and needs the safety of ports of refuge to redeploy ships in times of emergency. The basin is a repair facility with entry controlled by tides. Bases elsewhere are a must and should meet standards available at Haulbowline for support.

sparky42

Ethine and the Peacocks are to be formally decommissioned next week, with the rumours as you’d expect of a foreign buyer from Asia for the Peacocks (ie the Philippines), still the suggestion of a museum for Ethine, still had better not be wasting taxpayers money in that regard imo.

https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-navy-decommission-eithne-orla-ciara-5805258-Jul2022/

ancientmariner

When you de-commission ships in such a large number, in our case 3 vessels, they cannot yet come off your budgets OR attention. The last thing you want is a sinker in the basin. They will need a daily baby sitting team to walk through the ships, check bilges and leakages and pump out where necessary. Rudiments of power will be required and certain machinery will need turning over weekly. Do they tow away or power away all ships will need care to give purchasers options. They are NOT off the books until out of sight.

jonnybigwallet

I know they're on their last legs but I reckon the Ukrainians could gunter them up and get another year or two out of them. They could have a half dozen manpads on board each to give them a bit more firepower as well as existing...

Gary kk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119298025#Comment_119298025

Ah sure like would the Russians just sink them with subs

ancientmariner

The RNLI were approaching retirement for 25 Severn Class Lifeboats. They started a save the Severn's campaign. They are now in the process of upgrading, including new wheelhouse and equipment to extend by 25 years or more. When the THREE are decommissioned it will be the Fourteenth post war navy ship to go, along with all the cross ship skills and capabilities such as ASW, MCM, Aviation, In-Flight refuelling, Flight deck Firefighting, aircraft handling, Flight deck Officer, Helicopter Control Officer, Primary and Secondary radar controllers, HOSTAC Level One facilities to mention just a few. Any of these ships with faster Mistral manpads would be an asset. The guy with CS4 will scrub about 200 personnel, from Commander down. off the Establishment and we will be at full strength with a historic low figure in the 800's. We are heading in the wrong direction with more piebald tonnage in the offing.

Dohvolle

Program for government Committed to a 9 ship navy. We are (post decommissioning) down to 6, with 2 due in April, and one on the long finger. Speaking of fingers, Govt need to pull theirs out.

People who wear decoration on their hats not pushing this with DoD/DFHQ I fear. The Best time to do this was last year.

Larbre34

As per the news today, an opposition Motion of No Confidence in the Government is expected next week.

Cathal Berry has been out today on media saying if Coveney's memo to Cabinet on Tuesday next, concerning the expected investment in the DF (and presumably involving a serious reform in pay and conditions) doesn't meet with his expectations, he will have to rethink his support for the Govt.

He has such expectations, because both Coveney and Junior Minister Chambers have given him "reassurances". It'll be interesting to see whether those reassurances have survived the reported battle royal between the DoD and DoPER

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119306037#Comment_119306037

An i hear young Jack also is a supporter of Parish Pump Politics as he is putting forward the idea that Mckee is the best place for the New Army HQ aldo i think Mckee could be currently outside is voter base

Larbre34

I think it is outside, but there would be quite a few servicemen from his patch based there.

Also, he's right, it is an excellent location for the new Army Headquarters.

Firstly, it adjoins Garda HQ and cooperation between both Army and Garda in areas like Cyber Defence and Domestic and International counterterrorism will only become more important, especially as the Army becomes a standalone but equal service within the DF, with increased specialisation.

Secondly, if Cathal Brugha is offloaded, its important to have at least one secure campus in the Capital and McKee / Garda HQ is strategically ideal for that.

shillyshilly

Re: the crewing issue with the Navy... the issue is very real... I've a few friends and relatives that went through it..

They said it was crap being stuck on a boat a chunk of time, parking off Dublin or Cork, or stuck in the Atlantic, when the Army and Air Corps are mostly home every evening and the weekend...

Operations are mundane, and if they do want to instigate anything, its usually a bum fight or cost issue of calling in the Casa or AW139's for a proper intelligence led operation....

Trying to hop onto trawlers and yachts in the middle of nowhere loses it's excitement after a while....

Supposedly great though for specialist areas, electronics, comms, radar etc.... as you would imagine, which helps for getting more specialist roles on land, but a general sailor, it's meant to be boring and grim at times.

edit: Expanding on this, with the like of the Royal Navy, they retain people by giving even lower class sailors "specialties", a specific program to get trained and competent on kit while at sea, each trip is a different piece of kit etc... so on the down days you have something to focus on... not sure if the Irish Navy do it, but it gives lower levels doing boring work something to focus on and a way of progression... I think the progression part is a problem across all of the defence forces....

Also the fact they RN goes to other parts of the world, which helps a bit I guess..... not much excitement leaving Cork and arriving in....Cork..

edit part 2: that's not to say people don't love it either, plenty of people happy do be in a routine away from land.... I just think for the people who don't see being at sea as their "calling" (I know, crap description), the Irish Navy doesn't offer much, where you could coax similar people in different countries navies as they have a bit more activity and mission scope

Dohvolle

We like to compare ourselves with NZ in many ways. The NZ have some similar vessel types as us, and we are getting 2 of their surplus to needs IPV after all.

However, the RNZN has also had at least one Oiler and 2 frigates for the first quarter of this century and the majority of the last one. It deployed these ships all over the world continuously, and their crews got a chance to operate with Navies from all over the world, as well as in their own patch.

We had a taste of this in the last decade, as we sent ships to assist in Op Sophia, originally Atalanta, and more recently Irini. It was a great opportunity to demonstrate to the world how useful the ships of our small navy, and it's crews, could be on an international stage. It took a while of course for the DoD to pay the crews appropriately, but anyone involved loved what they were doing, and it for a short time was a great recruiting draw. Using the skills you learnt as a member of the Irish Naval service to save the lives of hundreds, far from home waters. That ticks all the "feeling good about the job I do" boxes. Unless you are a racist of course who thought it was just a migrant ferry service, and the NS doesn't need your type anyway.

The availability of Overseas postings has always been a huge factor retaining people in the Army. There were always a handful of appointments for Naval And Air Corps also, but never in the roles they had trained for. This needs to change. There is nothing preventing the Air Corps deploying with aircraft to UNIFIL. The Italians have been doing it for years, operating an ageing AB212 in the CASEVAC role As Part of ITALAIR. Likewise we missed the chance to get involved with the UNIFIL Maritime Task Force. Bangladesh were using an old Castle class OPV there up to recently. There were a range of anti Piracy patrols that ships like the peacocks would have been ideally suited for, had someone given the go ahead.

There has been a move away from "full time" fishery protection. Thats a job the NS were given when it was nobody elses responsibility. Now its that of the SFPA, and they haven't got their act together, so the EU sends civilian manned ships to do it for them instead, and to be fair, they are welcome to it.

I'm pleased that Cathal Berry has used his position in the Dail to gain some leverage for the Defence Forces. It's about time someone there cared.

Larbre34

Lets see if he has succeeded in exercising that leverage.

A lost vote of confidence for the Government, risks an early election, obviously. But Cathal was last-in in Kildare South in 2020, and I'm quite certain FF and FG will be putting the hard word on him about targetting his seat with massive resources, if he doesn't toe the line next week. I know he's not the easily intimidated type, but the seat is in play and that's just a fact of life.

Next week will interesting for the DF, thats for sure.

roadmaster

I love the last line of this article they must be gettting there info from waterford whispers

https://www.overtdefense.com/2022/07/07/irish-naval-service-disposing-of-three-vessels/

Tabnabs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119306357#Comment_119306357

Jesus, that reads like some sort of parody on the Dubliners song

"We are a seafaring nation

Defence of our land is a right

We'd fight like the devil all morning

Provided we're home by the night"

These "seafarers" should try a stint in the merchant navy; 28 days on a standby boat, circling a platform in any and all weather would soon put some perspective in their world view. Or a five month+ trip on a ULCC, too big to tie up and so you spend the entire trip at sea. No issues in recruitment there, standby work is oversubscribed (for some bizarre reason). I can understand the pay issue, but the job not really being what they'd like it to be is a bit rich, what did they think the NS did...?!

Dohvolle

They were doing fine up to that point.

roadmaster

If the North stays in the customs union and with Appledore tied in with the H&W could we see the MRV built in Belfast or had all the shipbuilding skills long gone from Belfast?

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119307879#Comment_119307879

Pretty much gone, one of the consortiums that’s trying to bid for the new RFA hulls for the U.K. is suggesting they would regenerate it but even if they get the contract that’s closer to 2030s. Putting the MRV to a yard like that is asking for cost and time overruns and potential mistakes.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119307964#Comment_119307964

We could get the british to pick up the tab after all its job creation!!

Dohvolle

Wind farm construction seems to be their current product line. Theoretically they could go back building ships, but P64 was the last ship out of Appledore, and that was too big for the facilities there, and I believe Anvil Point was the last ship built in H&W, 20 years ago.

The issue with building anything in the UK now is the extra charges and tariffs incurred with them no longer being a member of the EU, not to mention the exchange rate.

jonnybigwallet

They have recently been awarded a contract to build a large quantity of "boats". Great oaks and all that....

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119308289#Comment_119308289

For H&W add in the fact that they haven’t even been selected yet, and with the current political issues in the U.K. who knows if/when the RFA contract goes out and if they tied with the Spanish would win it. With all the EU yards not too mention further afield it would be nuts to bet on H&W (though it might be funny to see some reaction from the DUP to a Irish Navy vessel being built in Belfast). Apart from the mentioned issues like charges and tariffs, there’s also politics to consider I would think, a contract for €200 million going to an EU yard might make said member a lot happier than it going to the U.K.

Larbre34

We shouldn't be buying so much as a bullet from the UK anymore.

Anything we procure that can't be got in Ireland (yes 99% of things), should first be sourced in the EU, or failing that in the EEA from countries with which the EU have a trade relationship of integrity, like Switzerland.

There are many and varied naval architects and yards in France, Germany, Italy, Finland, Holland, Poland and elsewhere that make fine vessels and would be delighted to have our business, be it for patrol ships or a larger MRV or two.

As an example, Italy makes these fine 53m mine countermeasures vessels, crewed by just 30, which have been identified as a Naval Service acquisition in various reports.

roadmaster

Lads one of the things i mentioned was if the North stays in the custom union.

An example of how intergrated the north is

The NTA has ordered 100s of buses of wrights

1/4 of our liquid milk comes from the north or is processed there

Cheese from cork is sent to the north to get packaged

Bacon from Cavan is sent to the north to get packaged

Stout is trucked daily from Dublin to Belfast to be canned

Coke is shipped from plants in the south to get bottled in Lisburn

Nearly all our Brickies are from south Armagh

There is good precdence for getting stuff from the north but again only while they are in the customs union. If they are forced to leave there economy collapses

jonnybigwallet

Am I not right in saying that the firm who make the uniforms for the DF is in NI?

Larbre34

Apologies, when I said UK, I did mean GB. Obviously Ireland and the 6 are in a single market, soon to be a single jurisdiction the way the winds are blowing.

Dohvolle

Irish Navy decommissions a third of its fleet – The Irish Times

Larbre34

A new broom.

Hastened by gross mismanagement over the last two decades, of the most important resource of all, people.

Nonetheless, Eithne, Orla and Ciara were past their time, 38 and 39 years old respectively, or roughly twice as long in service as a typical NATO Naval vessel. But they were all good ships, tough and versatile. And they had to be.

Next Tuesday is expected to be a red letter day for the Defence Forces, the largest increase in investment in the hundred years of the State.

The two Lake Class ships are in preparation, Houlders are working away on their recommendations for an MRV design. We could get two of those, and likely a couple of MCVs also, along with the harbour security boats and remotely operated vehicles on the surface, under the water and in the air.

In the meantime, we have five ultra-modern ships to serve the State, with the sixth in major refit. They'll be joined by others.

Sometimes to sweep in the new, you have to put the old to rest.

Manic Moran

Ultra modern? P51 is nearly a quarter century old…