3 New Navy Vessels for Irish Naval Service

Markcheese

There was a small clue in the Irish examiner article as to why the Samuel beckets don't have phalanx,or Sam missiles ,or surface to surface missiles or super duper radar , or even heli decks and hanger. 50 million... not half a billion each .
The fact that 2 were ordered (and hopefully a third) during the worst of recessions is nearly a miracle in it's self.

Am kind of surprised they went with the main gun at all, considering the role they'll be performing...

sparky42

Markcheese wrote: »

There was a small clue in the Irish examiner article as to why the Samuel beckets don't have phalanx,or Sam missiles ,or surface to surface missiles or super duper radar , or even heli decks and hanger. 50 million... not half a billion each .
The fact that 2 were ordered (and hopefully a third) during the worst of recessions is nearly a miracle in it's self.

Am kind of surprised they went with the main gun at all, considering the role they'll be performing...

They weren't going to buy ships without a main gun, and considering the 76mm that are coming into the second hand market from the Perry class decommissioning I'd guess that OTO might have given a fair deal for them.

Five Lamps

sparky42 wrote: »

You do realise that the 76mm is an extremely common naval gun with service from the USN to many of the European navies to Asian navies? Hell some consider the 76mm larger than what we need, since the RN OPV's mount smaller guns, while the USN is going down to the 57mm on the LCS.

What exactly are you asking about in terms of a missile system? Anti air, anti ship, anti small craft? None of those are cheap, low maintenance or really useful for naval policing operations (ie they are good for destroying things, not so good for less than lethal actions). Why exactly given our position and the use of our navy are you suggesting we need them? And most naval ships carry secondary crew served weapons around the 20-30mm range (pretty much all NATO ships have some type of those weapons).

The Irish Navy is a patrol navy that is never going to be deployed into heavy combat, and short of both massive global change and systemic change in how we Irish view defence we are never going to pay for what you are suggesting.

I am sure it is. However, just for the purposes of debate is there alternative configurations that could have been examined?

beauf

Five Lamps wrote: »

I am sure it is. However, just for the purposes of debate is there alternative configurations that could have been examined?

Debate about what exactly?

sparky42

beauf wrote: »

Debate about what exactly?

Exactly, are we talking about other OPV designs, of which none are armed as Five Lamps is suggesting (and if you are taking the new River class much more expensive), or are you going to corvette or greater increases in purchase costs, supplies, base support facilities, manpower, helicopters if there's a hanger etc.

The p60 design has a fairly large development history, with other navies using the base design. None of them have the weapon systems Five Lamps seem to think are needed.

We aren't going to be sinking ships or subs outside of some Tom Clancy style fiction so why with an extremely limited budget are you of the opinion that such spending is required.

The navy spent quite a few years refining the design to meet the requirements that the navy has.

scuby

Third ship to be built http://jrnl.ie/1507954

BowWow

This thread needs to be renamed

What about the name?

The George Bernard Shaw?
The WB Yeates?
The Oscar Wilde?
The Seamus Heaney?

mikeym

Great news for the Irish Naval Service and its servicemen and women.

sparky42

Fantastic news to get a one for one replacement. Given an in service date of 2016 I wouldn't be surprised if it's named in relation to the Rising, but I really don't mind what it's called since we are getting it.

Heraldoffreeent

BowWow wrote: »

This thread needs to be renamed

What about the name?

The George Bernard Shaw?
The WB Yeates?
The Oscar Wilde?
The Seamus Heaney?

The LE Cecilia Ahern?
The LE Marion Keyes?
The LE Dr Bill Cullen??

source

Can't see it being 2016, sure the keel has only been laid for P62, isn't she due to be launched in 2016?

roundymac

Will be floated out late 2014, delivered early 2015. Source, Babcock Marine web page.

source

roundymac wrote: »

Will be floated out late 2014, delivered early 2015. Source, Babcock Marine web page.

Ah, that's a different story then.

sparky42

source wrote: »

Can't see it being 2016, sure the keel has only been laid for P62, isn't she due to be launched in 2016?

Joyce is well more advanced than that. On the Nationside show a couple of weeks back significant blocks of the hull and superstructure were already complete. I'd say she's about 50% done by now and since they are the same design the build time should drop per unit given that there is no unknown issues. The only delay I could see is if Beckett shows the need for changes.

jerryqu

Slightly off topic.
I was on flying visit to Cobh today and when leaving I noticed a navel vessel in dry dock.
Her bridge windows were boarded with marine ply and to my puzzlement the P number was totally greyed out, who is she ??
With the Emer departed as repoted above and what looked like a forest of masts in Harboline and what appeared to be Roisin or Niamh anchored in the roads have we anything at all off shore looking after our interests.

Heraldoffreeent

jerryqu wrote: »

Slightly off topic.
I was on flying visit to Cobh today and when leaving I noticed a navel vessel in dry dock.
Her bridge windows were boarded with marine ply and to my puzzlement the P number was totally greyed out, who is she ??
With the Emer departed as repoted above and what looked like a forest of masts in Harboline and what appeared to be Roisin or Niamh anchored in the roads have we anything at all off shore looking after our interests.

I think P31 is in for painting and some structural work, not sure on the rest but I know two of them are in for Asbestos clearing. I know Niamh was in Dublin port last week so if she's back in cork I'd imagine its a pre patrol stop in.

sparky42

jerryqu wrote: »

Slightly off topic.
I was on flying visit to Cobh today and when leaving I noticed a navel vessel in dry dock.
Her bridge windows were boarded with marine ply and to my puzzlement the P number was totally greyed out, who is she ??
With the Emer departed as repoted above and what looked like a forest of masts in Harboline and what appeared to be Roisin or Niamh anchored in the roads have we anything at all off shore looking after our interests.

That's Eithne getting shot blasted and a new paint job, she's been in for about 2 weeks now.

The masts in the basin are Orla and Ciara that are still tied up due to the asbestos issue in the engine spaces. Could have been Beckett at the roads, but there's two of the Aoife's and the two P50's still operational as far as I know.

EDIT Ninja'd by Herald

nowecant

Irish Times has the story as well

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/government-to-purchase-third-new-naval-service-ship-1.1826192

They are also reporting on the the possible name for P63

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/naval-service-ship-names-row-may-reopen-1.1826284

Markcheese

Is 3 the limit for the samuel becket class ? Or does a lot depend on the cost of keeping the peacocks in service ?
Are there any obvious disadvantages in having more than 5 vessels the same basic design ?

sparky42

Markcheese wrote: »

Is 3 the limit for the samuel becket class ? Or does a lot depend on the cost of keeping the peacocks in service ?
Are there any obvious disadvantages in having more than 5 vessels the same basic design ?

The contract was only for the 3, the navy will have to go out for tender for others and that will be at different prices than what these three have been at. As far as I know the plan was for Eithne to be replaced with the "EPV" design next not the Peacocks.

In terms of disadvantages the only one I could think of is if there was any flaw that became apparent well into their operational livespan.

Markcheese

EPV ? ... Extended patrol vessel, ??
How big would that have to be? Moving away from the same design as the Sam ?
Could an epv also be a multirole vessel , or are they mutually exclusive ?

nowecant

From what i understand and what was said earlier in this thread its just a difference in name. In a world of acronyms MRV was already taken by the Army to describe Multirole Vehicles.

EPV does stand for Extend Patrol Vessel. I think this is a better acronym anyway. I would imagine the order being something like the below though there is plenty of crossovers.

Patrol Vessel
Coastal Patrol Vessel
Offshore Patrol Vessel
Extended Patrol Vessel

An EPV might have the same size as a Corvette which is the term used in some Navys but it would be lacking a lot of its fighting capability.

I think of it in terms of a bigger ocean going patrol craft whos primary function is just that, patrolling Irish territorial waters and which will also have limited ability to transport troops and equipment.

My 2 cents anyway

Markcheese

I suppose a lot comes down to defining it's role (in an Irish context )
The kiwi's went with an adapted ro/ro ferry design ,but their navy's remit includes aiding some very remote pacific nations,
I think icelands is more like an armed ocean going tug/supply vessel ...

Local-womanizer

Photos of the current build, I have to put them in separate posts as I'm on my phone!

Local-womanizer

Pic 2

Local-womanizer

Pic 3

Local-womanizer

Pic 4.

All pics are taken from the Irish Navy photo section page on Facebook. A definite follow for everything DF on Facebook!

Also if a mod wants to put the pics into one post it would be greatly appreciated!

roundymac

sparky42 wrote: »

That's Eithne getting shot blasted and a new paint job, she's been in for about 2 weeks now.

The masts in the basin are Orla and Ciara that are still tied up due to the asbestos issue in the engine spaces. Could have been Beckett at the roads, but there's two of the Aoife's and the two P50's still operational as far as I know.

EDIT Ninja'd by Herald

Was in Cobh today, one P50, two P40s and one P20 in the basin with of course Eithne P31 in drydock at Rushbrooke (Verolme).

sparky42

roundymac wrote: »

Was in Cobh today, one P50, two P40s and one P20 in the basin with of course Eithne P31 in drydock at Rushbrooke (Verolme).

The 20 is new I think, I didn't see her in the basin yesterday from lake road walking the dog.

roundymac

sparky42 wrote: »

The 20 is new I think, I didn't see her in the basin yesterday from lake road walking the dog.

This would have been about lunch time when I was there. The P21 class was hidden to a large extent by the large shed by the waterside, it was only when we were getting ready to leave that we noticed her as she rose on the incoming tide.