3 New Navy Vessels for Irish Naval Service

sparky42

nowecant wrote: »

First steal cut on P63 https://www.facebook.com/irishnavalservice/photos/a.712030058879893.1073742036.101764433239795/712030152213217/?type=3&theater

Personally I would be happy if they went for another Samual Beckett OPV (P64) to replace Lé Eithne (P31) which was commissioned 30 years ago. I bet we could get a good price from the yard and there would be no down time. From my limited understanding and anecdotal evidence P61 seems to be an excellent ship and well received by the INS.

This would buy us a couple of years to design/commission/select an EPV or better yet two to replace P41 and P42.

My 2 cents anyway

I don't see that happening, we'd have to create a new contract, so it would at least a year or more to get done ( for example she'd cost more than the other three as they had costs fixed from 08?).

sparky42

Markcheese wrote: »

What's EPV stand for ?? Extended patrol vessel ?
What roles does an EPV fulfill that the likes of the Beckett class can't or can't do well...

From what was talked about back when it was floated, it was to have helicopter facilities, capabilities for transporting army equipment for un missions.

mikeym

Will the coastal patrol vessels be replaced by larger P51 style ships in the future?

We obviously need 1 small ship to do inshore work like the Orla and the Ciara.

Heraldoffreeent

mikeym wrote: »

Will the coastal patrol vessels be replaced by larger P51 style ships in the future?

We obviously need 1 small ship to do inshore work like the Orla and the Ciara.

I don't know about one of anything? A handful of something like the customs cutters might suit.

BoJack Horseman

Has the navy ever considered anything like the Danish Absalon class?

Something that can carry company strength numbers with vehicles & helicopters?

aindriu80

Really nice to see the pictures on Facebook. P63 getting its first cut of steel is great news. I wasn't sure if it was going to happen at one point.

They could replace the entire fleet at Appledore if the Irish government wanted to. Previous to P51 they have 5 old vessels @ €65 million to replace = € 325 million. Steady supply of work alone would secure the contract with no hassle. It just shows how tiny the Navy is though, replacing it takes zero effort. They will have to do it some stage though, the health and safety and claim over territorial waters will do that.

Still even with a ultra modern 8 ship PV navy they have to get 1 or 2 deploy able warships. They could each cost the combined total of replacing the PV's.

BoJack Horseman

aindriu80 wrote: »

they have to get 1 or 2 deploy able warships. They could each cost the combined total of replacing the PV's.

Surely there is no need?

The Beckett class is well armed for its purpose.

Surely a vessel armed with anti-air/ship/land missiles is an unnecessary expense?
A support vessel would surely be more apt?

aindriu80

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Surely there is no need?

The Beckett class is well armed for its purpose.

Surely a vessel armed with anti-air/ship/land missiles is an unnecessary expense?
A support vessel would surely be more apt?

Ireland can well get by on a 8 ship PV Navy but it doesn't mean they shouldn't expand the Navy with new vessels and new roles. Any new auxiliary ship will be cheap and have a limited role. They spend peanuts on the navy and we operate with the minimum of the most minimum.

Markcheese

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Surely there is no need?

The Beckett class is well armed for its purpose.

Surely a vessel armed with anti-air/ship/land missiles is an unnecessary expense?
A support vessel would surely be more apt?

Even a support vessel seems a bit OTT, what would it do , apart from the odd time it'd need to wander off after the armies overseas postings,
I think something that can handle a few containers , work as an emergency tug, possibly a helicopter pad ,and still be economical and seaworthy enough to go on patrol, so a bit like Icelandic coast gard vessel.. Or one of those oil rig service/supply vessel (but with guns)


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2_Arrival_of_Thor_-_Icelandic_Coast_Guard_2011-10-27_Reykjavik.jpg

http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://uglyships.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/ulstein-sx121_front-800p.jpg&imgrefurl=http://uglyships.wordpress.com/2009/01/31/ulstein-x-bow-design-poll/&h=455&w=800&tbnid=-UZ-8Dx34gJYwM:&zoom=1&docid=uTVLtCK2XUSMcM&hl=en-gb&ei=PBZEVInpMaiv7Abhk4D4Ag&tbm=isch&client=safari&ved=0CBwQMygBMAE


http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://worldmaritimenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Vigor-Offshore-Patrol-Cutter-Featuring-Ulstein-X-BOW.jpg&imgrefurl=http://worldmaritimenews.com/archives/76394/video-vigor-offshore-patrol-cutter-featuring-ulstein-x-bow/&h=415&w=620&tbnid=mXyN7KNO7cRbGM:&zoom=1&docid=exQ8DsqFQ9jPRM&hl=en-gb&ei=PBZEVInpMaiv7Abhk4D4Ag&tbm=isch&client=safari&ved=0CC4QMygTMBM


Or maybe not

sparky42

I suppose what will follow on from the P60's is dependent on what the White Paper says it will be. In terms of a support vessel, if we could get rid of that Triple Lock BS, we could do support for operations like the Piracy patrols.

Again with the time that our purchase contracts seem to take it's to late to suggest further 60's, I wonder does Appledore have any follow on projects post us for example.

aindriu80

Markcheese wrote: »

Even a support vessel seems a bit OTT, what would it do , apart from the odd time it'd need to wander off after the armies overseas postings,
I think something that can handle a few containers , work as an emergency tug, possibly a helicopter pad ,and still be economical and seaworthy enough to go on patrol, so a bit like Icelandic coast gard vessel......

Or maybe not

To be honest Ireland is one of the lowest spenders on Defence anywhere. We spend the same amount as Andorra , Lichtenstein and Guatemala. If that was football we couldn't take it serious. At this low point we can only go up.

Steel is cheap as they say and there is no reason Ireland can't contribute to overseas U.N missions using the Navy.

BoJack Horseman

aindriu80 wrote: »

To be honest Ireland is one of the lowest spenders on Defence anywhere. We spend the same amount as Andorra , Lichtenstein and Guatemala. If that was football we couldn't take it serious. At this low point we can only go up.

Steel is cheap as they say and there is no reason Ireland can't contribute to overseas U.N missions using the Navy.

Ridiculous that 25% of the defence budget is on pensions.

Cork boy 55

aindriu80 wrote: »

To be honest Ireland is one of the lowest spenders on Defence anywhere. We spend the same amount as Andorra , Lichtenstein and Guatemala. If that was football we couldn't take it serious. At this low point we can only go up.

Steel is cheap as they say and there is no reason Ireland can't contribute to overseas U.N missions using the Navy.

The political class has decided to spend the wealth on overseas development AID. We are one of the most generous in world , twice more than Germany Per capita, only a few Nordic countries are ahead and if adjusted for some basic economic variables like unemployment, We would be highest in the world

The celtic tiger spawned a trough sorry AID industry with a massive lobby group which grew out of all control and which the recession failed to tame ,

Nations wealth pissed away into the gale of the sub Saharan African population explosion while basic defense capabilities striped to bone.

sparky42

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

The political class has decided to spend the wealth on overseas development AID. We are one of the most generous in world , twice more than Germany Per capita, only a few Nordic countries are ahead and if adjusted for some basic economic variables like unemployment, We would be highest in the world

The celtic tiger spawned a trough sorry AID industry with a massive lobby group which grew out of all control and which the recession failed to tame ,

Nations wealth pissed away into the gale of the sub Saharan African population explosion while basic defense capabilities striped to bone.

That's a nice non answer (and elements of virtually every developed nation use it for something) but the reality is no it's not "the political class" but the very nation.

The General public have zero interest in having a defence capability to defend the nation. Remind me how many were outraged that our defence spending is so low? Or when we had virtually no navy (ie when the Flowers fell apart in the 70's)? Or how many shinnerbots run around insulting the Defence Forces? From virtually the foundation of the state the Department of Finance has ruled, and they have had no time for the Irish Military. And nowadays the great fig leaf of ignorance that is our "neutrality" is the great excuse not to spend anything and rely on others to do what needs to be done. FFS we can't even be bothered to spend the money to upgrade the MOWAG's with cage armour and the like.

It's nor the politicians, they are just doing what the electorate supports, and that is the minimum possible, while still doing UN missions (as long as we don't have to actually shoot people:rolleyes::mad:).

It's got nothing to do with foreign aid (or any other department that gets more than defence) and all to do with how the nation views and disrespects our Defence Forces.

beauf

Ye can't turn every thread into a rant about defence capability

Markcheese

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Ridiculous that 25% of the defence budget is on pensions.

Kind of surprised it's not more ...
Say we doubled our defence spending- (keeping personnel numbers the same)
What difference would it make to Ireland ? We'd still wouldn't be a European player ,we'd still be slightly west of the uk and it's relatively massive defence spending ... Let em at it- suits us ...
And on the pissing our budget away on African aid? Could be right but it's a step in the right direction better than pissing it away on Swiss or Swedish armaments (yes we do need some)

Tabnabs

Heraldoffreeent wrote: »

A handful of something like the customs cutters might suit.

Hold on to that thought, reduce it to an Irish defence level of acquisition and keep an ear to the ground

Markcheese

Tabnabs wrote: »

Hold on to that thought, reduce it to an Irish defence level of acquisition and keep an ear to the ground

???
A move from kinsale ?

sparky42

Tabnabs wrote: »

Hold on to that thought, reduce it to an Irish defence level of acquisition and keep an ear to the ground

I thought they were marginal in bad weather (to put it mildly)...

aindriu80

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Ridiculous that 25% of the defence budget is on pensions.

They did bring in contracts a few years ago so unless you make a certain rank your out. It will eventually save on the pensions AFAIK. Still €221 million on pensions in an area like defence is peanuts. It just shows how small the defence forces are and how limited Ireland really is.

They are taking submissions for the white paper but its pretty obvious how limited their horizon really is so it kind of seems pointless even reading the final document.

They should sign a contract for 5 more PV's out of appledore at least.

Markcheese

sparky42 wrote: »

I thought they were marginal in bad weather (to put it mildly)...

How do they compare to the peacocks in poor weather conditions, ? I know they're a lot smaller... But wouldn't both types be more coastal patrol vessels ??

Wheelsonthebus

Any word on the James Joyce? Isn't she due to be floated out around this time?

The Beckett was floated out at the beginning of November last year....

Larbre34

Other fora are reporting the 'Joyce' is due for float out from the build shed on 23rd November to continue fit out. Keel laying for the yet unnamed P63 will take place immediately thereafter.

roundymac

Larbre34 wrote: »

Other fora are reporting the 'Joyce' is due for float out from the build shed on 23rd November to continue fit out. Keel laying for the yet unnamed P63 will take place immediately thereafter.

If they keep with the policy of naming them after literary artist's how about "LE Bram Stoker". That might scare the "solids" out of a few fishermen.:p

roundymac

Not too long 'till next sunday, are they still on course to float her out?

roundymac

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-devon-30168034

nowecant

More info here

http://www.northdevongazette.co.uk/news/le_james_joyce_floats_from_appledore_for_first_time_1_3860300

"Work is also now underway on the third OPV, with first steel cut in September this year and delivery scheduled for summer 2016."

sparky42

Hope the defence forces get a few more photos of her up soon. I was reading in another post that the keel laying isn't going to happen straight away as they need to load some segments of CVF for shipment.

nowecant

sparky42 wrote: »

I was reading in another post that the keel laying isn't going to happen straight away as they need to load some segments of CVF for shipment.

I read that as well, though I don't think that will take too long.

I think we need to change the name of this thread from "2 New Navy Vessels for Irish Naval Service" to "3 New Navy Vessels for Irish Naval Service"

sparky42

nowecant wrote: »

I read that as well, though I don't think that will take too long.

I think we need to change the name of this thread from "2 New Navy Vessels for Irish Naval Service" to "3 New Navy Vessels for Irish Naval Service"

Good point, we're a little bit out now aren't we, thankfully!:D:P