3 New Navy Vessels for Irish Naval Service

Horse84

Hopefully these days don't come around again
http://www.rte.ie/archives/2014/1126/662439-irish-navy-down-to-its-last-ship/

sparky42

Horse84 wrote: »

Hopefully these days don't come around again
http://www.rte.ie/archives/2014/1126/662439-irish-navy-down-to-its-last-ship/

I think we can all agree with that, though to be fair I don't think the Navy would allow itself to get to that stage again either. The sad thing is that there's a good chunk of the population that won't care anyway:mad:

Horse84

sparky42 wrote: »

I think we can all agree with that, though to be fair I don't think the Navy would allow itself to get to that stage again either. The sad thing is that there's a good chunk of the population that won't care anyway:mad:

Spot on there. They don't care one iota and that will never change

sparky42

Horse84 wrote: »

Spot on there. They don't care one iota and that will never change

But god can they B*tch and moan about the "massive costs" when they see something in the news. bunch of idiots.

Heraldoffreeent

sparky42 wrote: »

But god can they B*tch and moan about the "massive costs" when they see something in the news. bunch of idiots.

Indeed, I watched the last Vincent Browne show with an audience, and there's some woman on complaining that she's not getting enough money from the state for having more babies "bud de gubbernmint Vinn-cen' de're payin' €50 million for a bleedin' boat".

And you have to have a licence to drive a car.

sparky42

Heraldoffreeent wrote: »

Indeed, I watched the last Vincent Browne show with an audience, and there's some woman on complaining that she's not getting enough money from the state for having more babies "bud de gubbernmint Vinn-cen' de're payin' €50 million for a bleedin' boat".

And you have to have a licence to drive a car.

I need to find the simile for banging against a wall...

Christ the same muppets would be screaming if God forbid we had loss of life on from some of the older ships due to age issues.

Somethings never fecking change.:mad::mad::mad:

Larbre34

You will never convince some people that protecting economic rights are a bigger benefit to the whole society in the long run.

That 'Newsbeat/ report is interesting in that in mentions the NS repatriated the remains of WB Yeats on the Macha; another reason to point to 'Yeats' as a likely name for P63?

- Although a Shinner Govt by then might go with the LE Robert Gerald Sands.........

sparky42

gallag wrote: »

beautiful ship, looks a very light steel on the side, looks like she has been docked hard a few hundred times.

Go have a look on the net at the new Danish Air defence frigates, they have the same thin skin look...

sparky42

Here's a link to another gallery on the float out...
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.733447096738189.1073742049.101764433239795&type=1

mikeym

Heraldoffreeent wrote: »

Indeed, I watched the last Vincent Browne show with an audience, and there's some woman on complaining that she's not getting enough money from the state for having more babies "bud de gubbernmint Vinn-cen' de're payin' €50 million for a bleedin' boat".

She was in the navy and is very bitter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCnyiUzKAcM

sparky42

Reading on Naval technology, they are quoting that even though steel has been cut for 63, the keel won't be laid till April, that seems like a longer gap than between Beckett and Joyce, or is it just me?

Savage93

sparky42 wrote: »

Reading on Naval technology, they are quoting that even though steel has been cut for 63, the keel won't be laid till April, that seems like a longer gap than between Beckett and Joyce, or is it just me?

Can't say really , don't know how long your gap is:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

dandyelevan

Larbre34 wrote: »

You will never convince some people that protecting economic rights are a bigger benefit to the whole society in the long run.

That 'Newsbeat/ report is interesting in that in mentions the NS repatriated the remains of WB Yeats on the Macha; another reason to point to 'Yeats' as a likely name for P63?

- Although a Shinner Govt by then might go with the LE Robert Gerald Sands.........

A future Govt with a SF majority and Independents, in my personal opinion, wouldn't be too interested in the NS but would set about slowly 'castrating' the Army by starving it of funding, if not (eventually) disbanding it altogether.
In a scenario where a referendum proposing such a move were put to the people, stating that, (if it were passed) Defence funding would be spent on Health, Children, etc, etc.
I have no doubt it would be passed with a large majority.

Morpheus

FACT:
If you were to take the entire DF budget and dump it completely into the health service, the budget would be consumed entirely within 2 weeks.
you'd then have 9500 more unemployed, and mostly pension claiming members of society.

sparky42

Morpheus wrote: »

FACT:
If you were to take the entire DF budget and dump it completely into the health service, the budget would be consumed entirely within 2 weeks.
you'd then have 9500 more unemployed, and mostly pension claiming members of society.

Oh sure, but the reality is the public don't care to a great extent about the reality. Hell most don't even know what the budget is and even if they did they would still think it would make sense:mad::mad::rolleyes::rolleyes:

dandyelevan

Morpheus wrote: »

FACT:
If you were to take the entire DF budget and dump it completely into the health service, the budget would be consumed entirely within 2 weeks.
you'd then have 9500 more unemployed, and mostly pension claiming members of society.

That's indeed a fact, but the proposition alone would be a good soundbite for a politician or political party. Having floated the very idea as a soundbite or a throwaway remark it would soon take legs in Ireland, where Defence is, and always was, bottom of the pile.

A Government have slashed Army pensions with the stroke of a pen these past few years.
Old soldiers / Sailors got no voice

sparky42

dandyelevan wrote: »

That's indeed a fact, but the proposition alone would be a good soundbite for a politician or political party. Having floated the very idea as a soundbite or a throwaway remark it would soon take legs in Ireland, where Defence is, and always was, bottom of the pile.

A Government have slashed Army pensions with the stroke of a pen these past few years.
Old soldiers / Sailors got no voice

Sadly true, on Pol.ie there was a poster banging on about neutrality, and I asked about sending MOWAG's out on UN missions without cage armour, and his immediate response was "how many teachers/schools/hospital beds" could we fund without the MOWAG fleet:mad::mad::rolleyes::rolleyes:.

There's a huge chunk of people that don't care, will never care and somehow think that the Defence Forces are A) massively overfunded for what "they" think the DF does and have little to zero respect for the DF. Hell back when the PC9's were ordered the Shinner in the Daíl was complaining about neutral Ireland getting them equipped for weapons:eek:

nowecant

Any update on the Lé James Joyce ?

BowWow

nowecant wrote: »

Any update on the Lé James Joyce ?

http://afloat.ie/port-news/navy/item/27572-second-newbuild-opv90-james-joyce-scheduled-for-sea-acceptance-trials-in-february

OzCam

sparky42 wrote: »

Hell back when the PC9's were ordered the Shinner in the Daíl was complaining about neutral Ireland getting them equipped for weapons:eek:

We should buy a squadron of Gripens. That'll really piss them off.

sparky42

OzCam wrote: »

We should buy a squadron of Gripens. That'll really piss them off.

Think the budget might have to be enlarged a bit before that. not that I'd hate the idea if we were taking defence serious.

sparky42

Joyce will start Sea Trials on the 17th of February, so hopefully everything will go well with the Trials and we'll see her in March.

BoJack Horseman

Seen that the UK has started on 3 x new 90 meter OPVs.

The price tag is around €160m each.

Looking at some comparisons, it matches up with the Beckett class quite similarly.... Has a helo deck, but smaller weapons.

Anyone know what makes the new RN OPV is 3x more expensive than a Beckett?

sparky42

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Seen that the UK has started on 3 x new 90 meter OPVs.

The price tag is around €160m each.

Looking at some comparisons, it matches up with the Beckett class quite similarly.... Has a helo deck, but smaller weapons.

Anyone know what makes the new RN OPV is 3x more expensive than a Beckett?

Some more fancy gadgets like air search radar I'd guess, but the main point is that they have to fill a gap. In other words the UK had to pay BAE £x millions due to the delay in ordering the 26's, so therefore they were going to pay it for anything they get. I think they are also built to a different marine standard.

BoJack Horseman

sparky42 wrote: »

Some more fancy gadgets like air search radar I'd guess, but the main point is that they have to fill a gap. In other words the UK had to pay BAE £x millions due to the delay in ordering the 26's, so therefore they were going to pay it for anything they get. I think they are also built to a different marine standard.

Aah.... So a stipend until they summon the cash to buy some new frigates?

(A bit off topic, but that type-26 is a very impressive ship).

sparky42

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Aah.... So a stipend until they summon the cash to buy some new frigates?

(A bit off topic, but that type-26 is a very impressive ship).

Basically yes, it goes back to the contract from the Carriers onwards, as part of that the UK committed to a certain build rate/or pay for the cost of sustaining a yard not in use. As a result they would have to pay it anyway so somebody got the idea to get some new OPV's, bit of a mixed back as it brings the risk of some politician saying "look you got 3 new "warships" why do you need so many new ones?".

The 26's seems to be a bit of a train wreck of Project Management that the UK/BAE has excelled at. Cost inflation (looking like £500 million now even after much of the pricey stuff being pulled from the 23's and dropped in) means that it's edging towards only 8 guaranteed, with the other 5 to follow (think how the 45's went form 12-8-6). The hoped for export demand seems to be drying up (maybe Australia but even that's not certain), particularly as they won't have the drop in equipment (I'd say a full up 26 will be even more than the current projected prices)

It's sad but like the USN the UK/MOD/RN just don't seem to be able to bring a new ship design on stream without major issues that could have been avoided.

IrishTrajan

sparky42 wrote: »

Oh sure, but the reality is the public don't care to a great extent about the reality. Hell most don't even know what the budget is and even if they did they would still think it would make sense:mad::mad::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Agreed.

Irish people just aren't interested in the military. They grossly overestimate the capabilities of the Irish State, where they think it can operate on a conventional level, when that simply isn't the case.

IrishTrajan

sparky42 wrote: »

Basically yes, it goes back to the contract from the Carriers onwards, as part of that the UK committed to a certain build rate/or pay for the cost of sustaining a yard not in use. As a result they would have to pay it anyway so somebody got the idea to get some new OPV's, bit of a mixed back as it brings the risk of some politician saying "look you got 3 new "warships" why do you need so many new ones?".

The 26's seems to be a bit of a train wreck of Project Management that the UK/BAE has excelled at. Cost inflation (looking like £500 million now even after much of the pricey stuff being pulled from the 23's and dropped in) means that it's edging towards only 8 guaranteed, with the other 5 to follow (think how the 45's went form 12-8-6). The hoped for export demand seems to be drying up (maybe Australia but even that's not certain), particularly as they won't have the drop in equipment (I'd say a full up 26 will be even more than the current projected prices)

It's sad but like the USN the UK/MOD/RN just don't seem to be able to bring a new ship design on stream without major issues that could have been avoided.

The export cost of the Type-26 seems to be pushing the £300 million per unit mark.

I don't see them selling that many, to be honest.

sparky42

IrishTrajan wrote: »

The export cost of the Type-26 seems to be pushing the £300 million per unit mark.

I don't see them selling that many, to be honest.

From some of the comments I've seen it's closer to £4-500 million per unit now (one of the reasons they are still pending final sign off), and I'd agree that the chances of selling any is slim.

IrishTrajan

sparky42 wrote: »

From some of the comments I've seen it's closer to £4-500 million per unit now (one of the reasons they are still pending final sign off), and I'd agree that the chances of selling any is slim.

You know what's even more brutal? The British Govt.'s new OPV, the River-class is supposed to cost £350 (€470) million for 3 ships, that aren't even that much better than the Beckett.

The Beckett-class cost a third of that.