3 New Navy Vessels for Irish Naval Service

Savage93

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Month aboard a ship, month at port in Malta. You tell the Naval Service they get a month in Malta, and they'll probably cover the cost themselves!

Nice thought but in reality most of these guys are married with families here and would want to spend their month off with their families.

sparky42

Savage93 wrote: »

Nice thought but in reality most of these guys are married with families here and would want to spend their month off with their families.

Well, I'm sure you could put together a crew of unmarried personnel, what could possibly go wrong with a month in the Med then?:P

Savage93

sparky42 wrote: »

Well, I'm sure you could put together a crew of unmarried personnel, what could possibly go wrong with a month in the Med then?:P

I might even join up myself!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sparky42

Savage93 wrote: »

I might even join up myself!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Make a hell of a new recruitment ad, wonder what the slogan would be:D

IrishTrajan

sparky42 wrote: »

Make a hell of a new recruitment ad, wonder what the slogan would be:D

It's Malta's way or Frankfurt's way.

xper

sparky42 wrote: »

Make a hell of a new recruitment ad, wonder what the slogan would be:D

Tub 18-30

knucklehead6

underway....


https://www.facebook.com/IrishCoastGuard/photos/a.513047368739103.110419.365726190137889/883028365074333/?type=1&theater

cerastes

What was the reason for getting rid of the Aoife?
If the NS think that Malta could use her, why couldnt we? and if we didnt need it and they dont want it, why didnt they just try sell it to someone that could use it? or scrap it.

Im sure a refit would be expensive, but can it really be as much as a new ship?

sparky42

cerastes wrote: »

What was the reason for getting rid of the Aoife?
If the NS think that Malta could use her, why couldnt we? and if we didnt need it and they dont want it, why didnt they just try sell it to someone that could use it? or scrap it.

Im sure a refit would be expensive, but can it really be as much as a new ship?

Aoife and the rest of the 20's are too small for West Coast operations (the Beckett's are 20m longer and twice as much weight). The Med has much different sea conditions (not 20+m waves) and as such she can be used there for the couple of years Malta needs to cover before their new bespoke OPV arrives.

We could have sold it for scrap/usage, based off Emer it would have been 300K at the most. Instead the decision was made to give it to a nation that is struggling with hundreds/thousands of refugees dying in the Med every week. Seems the better option in my view.

There was/is no value in refitting a 36 year old ship, few if any navies run ships that long (the CVN's being the major exception). It was time to retire and replace them and we gave her to another EU nation to cover their gap (which when you consider EU funding part paid for her it's kind of funny)

cerastes

sparky42 wrote: »

Aoife and the rest of the 20's are too small for West Coast operations (the Beckett's are 20m longer and twice as much weight). The Med has much different sea conditions (not 20+m waves) and as such she can be used there for the couple of years Malta needs to cover before their new bespoke OPV arrives.

We could have sold it for scrap/usage, based off Emer it would have been 300K at the most. Instead the decision was made to give it to a nation that is struggling with hundreds/thousands of refugees dying in the Med every week. Seems the better option in my view.

There was/is no value in refitting a 36 year old ship, few if any navies run ships that long (the CVN's being the major exception). It was time to retire and replace them and we gave her to another EU nation to cover their gap (which when you consider EU funding part paid for her it's kind of funny)

As Malta dont seem to want it even as an interim measure? 300k would have been useful somewhere somehow.

sparky42

cerastes wrote: »

As Malta dont seem to want it even as an interim measure? 300k would have been useful somewhere somehow.

Actually if you read the paper Malta DOES want it, the Minister actually apologised for the complaints from former personnel. (Basically the Maltese equivalent of this or P.ie had talking heads complaining which the Examiner blew out of proportion).

I don't see why anyone should be complaining about how Aoife is going to end of life, the only thing I would have preferred is if we got a sinkex out of one of them but I can imagine the complaints about that.

Larbre34

cerastes wrote: »

What was the reason for getting rid of the Aoife?
If the NS think that Malta could use her, why couldnt we? and if we didnt need it and they dont want it, why didnt they just try sell it to someone that could use it? or scrap it.

Im sure a refit would be expensive, but can it really be as much as a new ship?

The established flotilla strength of the NS is 8 vessels. The new ships are only being introduced to replace obsolete craft. A refit could not bring Aoife up to an acceptable modern standard. P63 will replace Aisling in a years time, which will complete the phase out of the class, and then it will be onto replacement options for the mid-80s ships, Eithne and the Peacocks.

Boreas

roundymac wrote: »

If they keep with the policy of naming them after literary artist's how about "LE Bram Stoker". That might scare the "solids" out of a few fishermen.:p

This has been my favoured name for P63 since the first two names were announced. Stoker is probably one of the most read Irish writers and gets very little recognition compared to some others. I'd also bet that many people in other countries don't realise he was Irish.

Yawlboy

I reckon P63 should be called - LE Brendan Behan

He was a painter and liked a drink - reminds me of a lot of guys in the Navy:D

Peregrine

roundymac wrote: »

If they keep with the policy of naming them after literary artist's how about "LE Bram Stoker". That might scare the "solids" out of a few fishermen.:p

If you really want to scare the ****e out of fishermen, why not go with characters like LÉ Count Dracula or LÉ Dorian Gray?

In fact, I reckon naming ships after characters from modern Irish literature is way more appropriate that naming them after poets/writers themselves.

Markcheese

Boreas wrote: »

This has been my favoured name for P63 since the first two names were announced. Stoker is probably one of the most read Irish writers and gets very little recognition compared to some others. I'd also bet that many people in other countries don't realise he was Irish.

Well if you're going for well read there'd be le Maeve Binchy and a le Celia Ahern -

BoJack Horseman

Has there been any word yet if the government will purchase anymore Beckett Class vessels?

IrishTrajan

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Has there been any word yet if the government will purchase anymore Beckett Class vessels?

Just the three of them so far.

sparky42

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Has there been any word yet if the government will purchase anymore Beckett Class vessels?

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Just the three of them so far.

Even if they wanted to, with proposals/bids/negotiations/agreements you'd be talking about at least another 3-4 years at best before work started I'd bet. And they would be more expensive (both inflation and general cost increases, remember the 50 million is 08 prices from memory). Not too mention the fact that the other services would be against it (remember the 60s have been the major capital project of the budget these last few years)

I'd prefer them to actually move on with the EPV instead.

IrishTrajan

sparky42 wrote: »

Even if they wanted to, with proposals/bids/negotiations/agreements you'd be talking about at least another 3-4 years at best before work started I'd bet. And they would be more expensive (both inflation and general cost increases, remember the 50 million is 08 prices from memory). Not too mention the fact that the other services would be against it (remember the 60s have been the major capital project of the budget these last few years)

I'd prefer them to actually move on with the EPV instead.

We're going to have to get rid of the other, older classes of ships as well.

I thought we were going with MRVs, rather than EPVs?

sparky42

IrishTrajan wrote: »

We're going to have to get rid of the other, older classes of ships as well.

I thought we were going with MRVs, rather than EPVs?

There's still a couple more years before they absolutely have to start the process in replacing them, who knows if the Appledore yard will even be there by then. The Air Corps and Army are going to want capital investment first.

In terms of the name I think that's just semantics at the moment, same basic idea.

IrishTrajan

sparky42 wrote: »

There's still a couple more years before they absolutely have to start the process in replacing them, who knows if the Appledore yard will even be there by then. The Air Corps and Army are going to want capital investment first.

In terms of the name I think that's just semantics at the moment, same basic idea.

What would the Army need? Electronic warfare equipment, better APCs/IFVs, missile defence?

At least we're starting to see newer stuff enter service.

Markcheese

What role/ capabilities do people see as desirable or even essential in a future Irish EPV or MRV or whatever you want to call it - especially considering the capabilities of the beckets -

IrishTrajan

Markcheese wrote: »

What role/ capabilities do people see as desirable or even essential in a future Irish EPV or MRV or whatever you want to call it - especially considering the capabilities of the beckets -

Extended patrols for Irish contributions to humanitarian missions, probably with a Seahawk or Seasprite for lift capabilities, and for use in Operation Atalanta (Harpoons, GAU-8s) or to allow Ireland an ability to help against ISIS (Hellfire Missiles, for example, we could use them to great effect in Derna).

It's more for Irish overseas contributions, rather than domestic EEZ patrol.

sparky42

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Extended patrols for Irish contributions to humanitarian missions, probably with a Seahawk or Seasprite for lift capabilities, and for use in Operation Atalanta (Harpoons, GAU-8s) or to allow Ireland an ability to help against ISIS (Hellfire Missiles, for example, we could use them to great effect in Derna).

It's more for Irish overseas contributions, rather than domestic EEZ patrol.

I'd go for a flight deck/hangar for a larger helo, just for the more versatility that it brings (even if we don't have the helo, we could be doing joint ops), Atalanta doesn't need harpoons, he'll fires would handle that threat area (but fitted for not with why not). I'd like the sealift capability that something along the lines of the Absalon brings as well. But as you said, it's for deployments rather than EEZ operations.

sparky42

IrishTrajan wrote: »

What would the Army need? Electronic warfare equipment, better APCs/IFVs, missile defence?

At least we're starting to see newer stuff enter service.

More MOWAGs (as I've said before, direct fire, indirect fire, transports) with better armour protection. Included in that replacing the Scorpions with something, just for a couple of examples.

IrishTrajan

sparky42 wrote: »

More MOWAGs (as I've said before, direct fire, indirect fire, transports) with better armour protection. Included in that replacing the Scorpions with something, just for a couple of examples.

How much were the Scorpions? We could probably overhaul the Air Corps and Army in the same budget.

I'd rather like some Merkavas, or CV90s. The CV90 are IFVs, but they have a 120mm smoothbore and designed to work in tough weather conditions (would also make us more efficient in Nordic Battlegroup, since the Swedes themselves designed it). The Merkava because it has nice off-road capabilities.

The cost would be a drawback to buying an IFV or Tank though, unfortunately

Edit:

Average Scorpion worked out at about $1 million per unit, I think. That's quite a lot less than the Merkava ($6 million) and the CV90120T ($3 million).

I guess the Army ain't getting some shiny new things tank.

sparky42

IrishTrajan wrote: »

How much were the Scorpions? We could probably overhaul the Air Corps and Army in the same budget.

I'd rather like some Merkavas, or CV90s. The CV90 are IFVs, but they have a 120mm smoothbore and designed to work in tough weather conditions (would also make us more efficient in Nordic Battlegroup, since the Swedes themselves designed it). The Merkava because it has nice off-road capabilities.

The cost would be a drawback to buying an IFV or Tank though, unfortunately

Edit:

Average Scorpion worked out at about $1 million per unit, I think. That's quite a lot less than the Merkava ($6 million) and the CV90120T ($3 million).

I guess the Army ain't getting some shiny new things tank.

I wish we'd gone for the CV 90 back when we were looking at the fleet, but we went with the MOWAG, therefore we should make the best of the situation and keep the supply chain/training system etc as slim as possible, particularly for deployments. The MOWAGs have issues but it's what we have, the 105mm variant would be enough for our needs.

roundymac

There was an article in last Saturdays Examiner by Sean O Riorden, he just discovered that the Beckett's can't track submarines off our coast, unbelievable stuff.:mad:. .....If we were able to detect them what does he want us to do about them,,,, sink them????

sparky42

roundymac wrote: »

There was an article in last Saturdays Examiner by Sean O Riorden, he just discovered that the Beckett's can't track submarines off our coast, unbelievable stuff.:mad:. .....If we were able to detect them what does he want us to do about them,,,, sink them????

I can just imagine him writing an article if the navy had specced a ship that had the sonar capabilities and tracking systems to hunt SSNs. That's light frigate class money straight away, the entire Beckett class budget wouldn't cover 1 or the capital costs.

Just the examiner having another go while ignoring the fact that the irish people won't pay for anything more.