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3 New Navy Vessels for Irish Naval Service

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭Ren2k7


    sparky42 wrote: »
    Is Germany ( a nation with an aversion to miliaty deployments coming close to us (for example there have been times when police have out numbered army recurits taking their oaths to prevent protesters from interfearing)) going to agree to deploy combat forces to Mali for example under a French military operation? (Consider that Germany didn't take action in Libya while the UK and France were eager for it). Is the Italian Navy going to send frigates to support the UK position in the Falklands? If the UK decides to go with the US into another Middle East country when many of the EU disagree would troops of the EU nations be sent with the UK?

    At a high level it makes sense, drill down into what is an isn't supportable by the individual nations and pretty soon other than an Article 5 situation you get opt outs, restrictions (consider the restrictions Germany and others put in troop operations in Afghanistan). Given the wide range of attitudes that exist and most likely will continue to exist assuming a EU military happening is extremely ambitious (even if NATO completely collapsed you are more likely to see a defence alliance than an offensive one).

    The only area that might ever make sense (an only because spending profiles make it impossible to sustain otherwise) is in procurement, however the last 50+ years are littered with examples of where even there the EU nations can't work together.

    In a hypothetical EU Armed Forces there would be a single force answerable to one command based out of an EU Department of Defence. There might still be an Irish Army, Italian Navy, etc but presumably they would be similar to the National Guards of US State's (in peacetime under state control and in war under federal control). That is, presumably, what Juncker is on about. Personally I would have no problem with this, as long as the DF were to continue being an Irish force (for internal ATCP duties and coastal duties), with an EU Armed Forces (common army, air force and navy+marines) responsible for all external defence and overseas missions (with the DF taking part under European command).

    Though I accept for the foreseeable future such a proposal is out of the question. The next best thing is for the establishment of a proper EU Defence Dept that would harmonise the widely divergent militaries of member states, with common procurement of weapons, equipment and other assets. Instead of having a different service rifle for each member state's army the EU would be responsible for common tender and acquisition for all forces.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭Ren2k7


    Boreas wrote: »
    The above is from the UK Sunday Times. I hadn't heard that there was also an objection from Yeats' family.

    It was silly to name the vessel after someone who hated an independent Ireland. Really our vessels should be named after prominent Irish leaders who fought for our independence, not those who despised it. Maybe it's not too late to name the remaining two the LÉ Collins and LÉ Tone. ;)


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,402 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Boreas wrote: »
    The above is from the UK Sunday Times. I hadn't heard that there was also an objection from Yeats' family.

    Stephen Joyce is a lovely character altogether.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,703 ✭✭✭IrishTrajan


    Yawlboy wrote: »

    The Becketts are larger than that, and China's metallurgical skill isn't capable of competing with the West's. It's why their "next gen" fighters aren't really that impressive, like the Russians and their engine blocks.

    Unless they were selling them for like €10m a pop, we're better off sticking with Western companies.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,524 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    LÉ Yeats has a ring to it, and would make sense to commemorate his birth 150 years later.

    The Micheal Collins or Padraig Pearse has a better ring


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 257 ✭✭dandyelevan


    nowecant wrote: »
    I always thought it would be nice to name the ships for Irish soldiers who died on UN duty.

    Does anyone know when the 2015 defense white paper is meant to come out? I would love to see funding in it for an EPV, even if it was much further down the line.

    Like Pte. Stephen Joyce 1982 (Lebanon) and Trooper Patrick Mullins 1961 (Congo) RIP.
    They could name the ships after these brave lads killed in action for World Peace, seeing as we (Ireland) didn't bother our asses searching for their bodies and left them lying on 'foreign fields.'


  • Registered Users Posts: 590 ✭✭✭Leonidas BL


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    That whole issue was raised with Shatter before the naming scheme began. I agreed with it at the time, I thought they should have gone with a naming scheme of well known Irish port cities or Islands/archipelagoes.

    But Shatter being Shatter.........

    Is there any reason why the whole literary thing couldn't be scrapped??
    Rename the Beckett and start from scratch.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭roundymac


    Any news on her delivery date?


  • Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭muppet01


    ted1 wrote: »
    The Micheal Collins or Padraig Pearse has a better ring

    How about a true Irishman,

    LE Michael Flatley......................:D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭sparky42


    roundymac wrote: »
    Any news on her delivery date?

    Saw something around the 20th, with work needing to be done on her propellers


  • Registered Users Posts: 590 ✭✭✭Leonidas BL


    muppet01 wrote: »
    How about a true Irishman,

    LE Michael Flatley......................:D

    Or a true ambassador, LE Conor McGregor :cool:


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭mikeym


    Is there any reason why the whole literary thing couldn't be scrapped??
    Rename the Beckett and start from scratch.

    The Naval service will never change the name of Le Sam.

    I think its bad luck anyway to change the name of a ship.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,464 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    mikeym wrote: »
    The Naval service will never change the name of Le Sam.

    I think its bad luck anyway to change the name of a ship.

    What about the peacocks ?

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Markcheese wrote: »
    What about the peacocks ?

    I thought it was ok if you are buying second hand to change the name but not if it's new...


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,524 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    muppet01 wrote: »
    How about a true Irishman,

    LE Michael Flatley......................:D

    Or LE Prechaun


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,464 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    ted1 wrote: »
    Or LE Prechaun
    Very Owen Colpher
    (Except his were Lep - recon ) how long before they name a ship after him -

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,716 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    mikeym wrote: »

    I think its bad luck anyway to change the name of a ship.

    bollox, it's only bad luck for the ship owners who have to pay for the paperwork to be updated. ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    Pic of the Lé James Joyce

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/76809324@N07/17091962711/

    Looks well


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭roundymac


    nowecant wrote: »
    Pic of the Lé James Joyce

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/76809324@N07/17091962711/

    Looks well
    She looks ready to go, are her sea trials finished?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Comments on IMO, suggest that there's an issue with the propellers...


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    The Irish Naval Service posted pics of the keel laying for P63 on Facebook

    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.805187996230765.1073742089.101764433239795&type=1


  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭voter1983


    The pics from the fleet exercise this year will no doubt be very impressive with the Navy wanting to show off the capabilities of the new ships


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭Ren2k7


    nowecant wrote: »
    The Irish Naval Service posted pics of the keel laying for P63 on Facebook

    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.805187996230765.1073742089.101764433239795&type=1

    Lovely. Now if only the government were to buy the 3 River Class vessels currently under construction from the UK to replace the Eithne and Peacocks...... ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Heraldoffreeent


    Ren2k7 wrote: »
    Lovely. Now if only the government were to buy the 3 River Class vessels currently under construction from the UK to replace the Eithne and Peacocks...... ;)

    I doubt very much the Navy will do, or want to do that.
    If the Rivers were suitable for the Navy's needs then I'm sure they'd have looked to buy the 3 Amazonas class ships the Brazilians picked up after the T and T sale fell through.

    As I see it, the Navy want ships that meet it's requirements, not second hand hand me downs.

    As it is, after P64, theres a requirement for three ships to replace the Peacocks and Eithne, the NS have expressed a desire for one, possibly two EPV/MRV's.If the white paper doesn't recommend a larger fleet, then buying the rivers just plugs the gap with 2nd hand vessels and kills off any possibility of getting larger flexible vessels for at least 15 years.

    The other problem is the supply chain, as it is, parts, guns, engines etc have commonality between the P50's and P60's. The rivers are a 2nd /3rd ship type, Cheap upfront, but it doubles the Logs chain. Expensive for a small navy.

    In any case, I'd imagine the Navy found them unsuitable in the past or as I said, they'd have pitched for the Amazonas.I'd imagine this would have something to do with sea keeping in rough sea states 2/300 miles out in the North Atlantic, something the NS do daily, something the RN Rivers may never do, seeing as they're very much "home fleet".


    Buying stuff just coz is something we've grown out of, long may it continue.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Ren2k7 wrote: »
    Lovely. Now if only the government were to buy the 3 River Class vessels currently under construction from the UK to replace the Eithne and Peacocks...... ;)

    Why? They are over twice what the Beckett's cost (and all the supply chain issues Herald mentioned), besides at best the RN will keep the new hulls and surplus the older ones, so half their lifespan would be gone before we even got them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭mikeym


    Ren2k7 wrote: »
    Lovely. Now if only the government were to buy the 3 River Class vessels currently under construction from the UK to replace the Eithne and Peacocks...... ;)

    If the Peacocks were being replaced there would have to be at least one similar size vessel bought.

    Dont forget the Irish Naval Service is one of the smallest navies in the world.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭sparky42




  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    sparky42 wrote: »


    How serious an issue is this to fix, or is it fixable?


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Morpheus


    im sure its very fixable and that we wont be paying a red cent to fix it.


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