3 New Navy Vessels for Irish Naval Service

sparky42

nowecant wrote: »

This is a great idea, with the exchange rates the way they are and Babcock Marine / Appledore
€130m for two ships, I assume with the possibility of ordering a third?

I would love to know what they are thinking design wise. Perhaps P41/P42 replacement? I understand that theses are to have counter-mine capabilities.

TBH, form the article and the fact that it's Appledore, I was thinking the chances were two more P60's. That would sit right in the ballpark of 130 million for 2. Given both the EPV and the Peacock replacements are going to have to be new designs I can't see them coming in at the same amount. Or being "low risk" developments either.

mikeym

The word on the base is that Le George Bernard Shaw will replace the Le Ciara.

I presume Babcock will be building the Multi Role Vessel that will replace the Eithne.

sparky42

mikeym wrote: »

The word on the base is that Le George Bernard Shaw will replace the Le Ciara.

I presume Babcock will be building the Multi Role Vessel that will replace the Eithne.

Interesting, has the planned 2 CPV+ in the WP being dropped so and the fleet staying at 8?

As for the MRV, I doubt it, the P60's are pretty much the limit of what they can fit into their dock as far as I know, also they don't have a design for such or for building something of the size of the MRV.

sparky42

Another article on the sale of Aisling:

Three foreign navies are among those who have expressed an interest in acquiring the last Irish Naval Service ship to be built at Verolme Cork Dockyard, when it goes for auction later this month.

Cork auctioneer, Dominic Daly confirmed that three navies from Africa and Asia have made inquiries about the LÉ Aisling, which was decommissioned from service last June, after 36 years patrolling Irish territorial waters.

A Greek ship broker and an Irish yacht club are among the other parties to have expressed an interest in acquiring the 62 metre ship, which has over 600,000 nautical miles on the clock, with the yacht club looking at using it as a floating club house, said Mr Daly.

“The LÉ Aisling was the last of three sister ships that was built at Verolme Cork Dockyard. She was built in 1980, but she’s in very good condition. She was particularly well cared for and is very clean and anyone who has inspected her at the Naval base at Haulbowline has been impressed.”
No reserve

Mr Daly said that no reserve price has been fixed on the LÉ Aisling. Her sister ship the LÉ Emer fetched €320,000 when she was bought by Nigerian businessman, Cyprian Imobhio, in 2013, and Mr Daly said he was confident that the LÉ Aisling would prove equally attractive at auction.

The ship was notable for having twin diesel engines driving the single propeller to give a top speed of 17 knots, and with its armaments removed would make an ideal training vessel for another navy, as has happened with the LÉ Emer, which is now being used by the Nigerian Navy as NNS Prosperity.

Mr Daly pointed out that the LÉ Aisling has 44 berths and has the capacity to stay at sea for up to a month, but with a fully equipped galley, would also make a fine clubhouse if purchased by the Irish yacht club, which he declined to name, and anchored at moorings.

Think it would be nuts for a Yacht club to buy her, wonder which navies are looking at her?

Tabnabs

Interesting looking vessel arriving in Dublin port this morning. BNS Castor a 52-metre (171 ft) patrol vessel from the French shipyard SOCARENAM.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41Lfq3dQAFU

roundymac

/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Scott_(H131)
This is the biggest ship built at Appledore, 131m. They built her at an angle to the dock with her bow sticking out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Scott_(H131)

sparky42

roundymac wrote: »

/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Scott_(H131)
This is the biggest ship built at Appledore, 131m. They built her at an angle to the dock with her bow sticking out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Scott_(H131)

Bigger than I thought they could build, did they have to build the superstructure once she had been floated out? Don't think they would have height clearance in the shed...

mikeym

Le Aisling sold today for peanuts.


http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/famous-navy-ship-l-aisling-sold-in-cork-auction-for-110k-35558852.html

Arguably the most famous ship in modern Naval Service history, LÉ Aisling, was sold for €110,000 at an auction to a Dutch ship broker.
LÉ Aisling was decommissioned from fleet service last year after steaming 600,000 nautical miles over a 36 year service career.
The vessel was sold by public auction in Carrigaline, Co Cork.

Auctioneer Dominic Daly said LÉ Aisling represented an unique purchase despite the difficulties in the global shipping sector.
Netherlands ship broker, Dick van der Kamp, bought the ship for €110,000 with just the second bid at the auction.

The vessel sold for roughly one-third of the €320,000 the LE Emer made at public auction almost four years ago.
LE Deirdre, which was auctioned off in 2001, made €240,000.

Mr van der Kamp said the purchase was a gamble.
"The offshore ship market has collapsed over the past few years. That is why this ship made much less than the previous ship auctioned off," he said.

He said the ship will be towed to the Netherlands within a matter of weeks and his firm will then consider expressions of interest in it.
"Sometimes you buy ships and it is a bargain. But it is also a gamble," he said.

nowecant

"Famous Navy ship LÉ Aisling sold in Cork auction for €110k"
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/famous-navy-ship-l-aisling-sold-in-cork-auction-for-110k-35558852.html

Apart from the details of the sale and some history on LÉ Aisling the article also has the below regarding the future of the INS.

...
Five Irish ships – LÉ Niamh, LÉ Roisin, LÉ James Joyce, LÉ Samuel Beckett and LÉ William Butler Years – have been built to essentially the same offshore patrol vessel design since 1999 at a UK shipyard.

A sixth, LÉ George Bernard Shaw, will enter service in 2019.
The Government is examining the requirements of the new White Paper on Defence which commits Ireland to replacing the three oldest vessels LÉ Eithne, LÉ Orla and LÉ Ciara.

LÉ Eithne, the fleet flagship, is the oldest having been commissioned in 1984.

LÉ Orla and LÉ Ciara both date from 1988 but are less than one third the size of LE Eithne which displaces 1910 tonnes.
Ireland is now committed to operating seven offshore patrol vessels and one multi-role vessel (MRV) which, as well as being larger, will be able to co-ordinate helicopter, underwater and land operations.

However, to reduce costs, the proposed new MRV will not boast a helicopter landing facility.

It is expected to enter service in 2019/2020 though it is still are the design planning stage.
Taoiseach Enda Kenny said he would like to see the new larger vessel have a medical centre capability to allow it deploy for major humanitarian missions.

The Naval Service aims to replace vessels once they approach a 35 year service life – though five of the eight vessels in service are now relatively new.

The three new ships are larger developments of the basic LÉ Róisín design.

However, they are 12m bigger at 90m in overall length and displace 433 tonnes more.
With a top speed of 23 knots, the new ships are also over 30pc faster than the ageing vessels they replaced.

They are vastly more advanced and are also capable of handling both drone aircraft and remotely controlled robotic subs.

I thought the future plan was 8 OPVs and an MRV? Did Enda not say something about this?

SEPT 23 1989

mikeym wrote: »

Le Aisling sold today for peanuts.


http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/famous-navy-ship-l-aisling-sold-in-cork-auction-for-110k-35558852.html

I was shocked when I saw that on the news is a ship like that really worfh fcuk all ?

Could it not be used for school tours or something like that?

Heraldoffreeent

nowecant wrote: »

"Famous Navy ship LÉ Aisling sold in Cork auction for €110k"
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/famous-navy-ship-l-aisling-sold-in-cork-auction-for-110k-35558852.html

Apart from the details of the sale and some history on LÉ Aisling the article also has the below regarding the future of the INS.



I thought the future plan was 8 OPVs and an MRV? Did Enda not say something about this?

With the addition of the Shaw, I was counting it as 4 Becketts, 2 Roisin's, then 2 CPV/Minesweepers, and one MRV/EPF/Frigate sized hospital ship, making for a 9 ship fleet as per the PfG.

ted1

Can't believe they sold if it for so little, should have had a higher reserve. Probably less than the cost of 1 officer for the year.

It would have made a great museum/ training ship or similar.

Or as a tender to spike island and do a whole or tourist experience

sparky42

ted1 wrote: »

Can't believe they sold if it for so little, should have had a higher reserve. Probably less than the cost of 1 officer for the year.

It would have made a great museum/ training ship or similar.

Or as a tender to spike island and do a whole or tourist experience

Oh FFS, really this crap again. Why would we use up a berth in the Basin for it? Why when we've never used a training ship do we suddenly need to keep a 35 year old hull to do so (and pay all the costs in sustaining a 35 year old hull? Why would we use a small OPV as a tender to Spike at all?

She gave great service for a long time, but it's time to flog her off.

ted1

sparky42 wrote: »

Oh FFS, really this crap again. Why would we use up a berth in the Basin for it? Why when we've never used a training ship do we suddenly need to keep a 35 year old hull to do so (and pay all the costs in sustaining a 35 year old hull? Why would we use a small OPV as a tender to Spike at all?

She gave great service for a long time, but it's time to flog her off.

Where did I ever say, keep it in the basin? Where did I ever say navy training ship?

With tourists attractions you need to deassociate your knowledge of boats and their purpose to what provides an attraction they are willing to pay for.

sparky42

ted1 wrote: »

Where did I ever say, keep it in the basin? Where did I ever say navy training ship?

With tourists attractions you need to deassociate your knowledge of boats and their purpose to what provides an attraction they are willing to pay for.

Training for what then? Where is the gap that you think needs filling with a 35 year old ship?

As for "Tourist Attractions" maybe you should have a look at the US and the UK, more than a few former warships have sunk at anchor for lack of funds during attempts to run them as tourist attractions, others have taken millions to sustain them (and that's with massive history and footfall visiting them). Who do you think even in Ireland is going to get worked up visiting Aoife? How do you think a small ship that was never designed for large numbers of people moving through it going to handle being a "tourist attraction".

There is only 1 thing I regret about the sale, that the Navy instead didn't get a chance for a sinkex.

ted1

In dry Dock it could attract tourists, the Asgard gets plenty of tourists in Dublin and the maritime museum in Dun Laoighre gets plenty of tourists , an ex navy ship would pull in bigger numbers.
As a training ship, FAS or whatever they call themselves now could use it for the merchant navy

Look at what your man in Enniscrone is doing or the it is more suited Robert t an escape room then this boat

https://www.google.ie/amp/www.thejournal.ie/escape-room-boat-dublin-3189680-Jan2017/?amp=1

randy hickey

More developments re pending procurement of big floaty things:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/navy-considers-200m-multi-role-ship-460791.html

sparky42

randy hickey wrote: »

More developments re pending procurement of big floaty things:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/navy-considers-200m-multi-role-ship-460791.html

Hopefully it's a lesson's learned and what not to do exercise rather than what is being looked at.

return guide

Surprised to read that the Niamh is now the flagship and even more surprised to read that she is being replaced!!

knucklehead6

return guide wrote: »

Surprised to read that the Niamh is now the flagship and even more surprised to read that she is being replaced!!

i'd say they meant Eithne

knucklehead6

sparky42 wrote: »

Hopefully it's a lesson's learned and what not to do exercise rather than what is being looked at.

why? Genuine question tw, but would a Multi role type not be a good idea?

sparky42

knucklehead6 wrote: »

why? Genuine question tw, but would a Multi role type not be a good idea?

Nothing against a "multi role" type, however Canterbury had/has plenty of issues against it (not that we can use the design anyway given it's too large for Cobh). At the core however is the fact that 200 million isn't going to buy much lift, or defensive capability, and I'd like a commitment to fund actual helicopters at the same time rather than hope the AC gets included. There's also the issue that if we are moving towards out of EEZ operations permanently (not a bad thing) then maybe we should actually look at what type of operations we will be supporting before buying the hull.

Tabnabs

Any interest in HMS Albion or Bulwark, now that they are rumoured to be sold off?

sparky42

Tabnabs wrote: »

Any interest in HMS Albion or Bulwark, now that they are rumoured to be sold off?

I like the initiative but got to think they maybe "slightly" too much for the NS of the entire DF at this stage...

Still can't believe the MOD is thinking of flogging them off tbh.

donvito99

sparky42 wrote: »

Nothing against a "multi role" type, however Canterbury had/has plenty of issues against it (not that we can use the design anyway given it's too large for Cobh). At the core however is the fact that 200 million isn't going to buy much lift, or defensive capability, and I'd like a commitment to fund actual helicopters at the same time rather than hope the AC gets included. There's also the issue that if we are moving towards out of EEZ operations permanently (not a bad thing) then maybe we should actually look at what type of operations we will be supporting before buying the hull.

I still don't buy the idea of a Canterbury-like capability. We don't exist on the edge of the world, we don't have an interest in an enormous spread of complex, tiny island nations. We'd have to go a long way to find a purpose for this vessel, and if it's resupplying existing or future missions, charter or a state owned civilian vessel would seem to be more appropriate.

Something like an A310 MRTT, without the tanking, as used by the Luftwaffe, would be a useful thing. Over 200 passengers or 36 tons of cargo, or a combination of both. That'd work for troop transport, rapid deployment of ARW, long range MEDEVAC (the Luftwaffe have ro/ro cots for this sort of thing), long range VIP transport, Irish Aid lifts, lifts of displaced Irish citizens (Nepal quake comes to mind) etc. You'd likely get two or more for an awful lot less than €200m with a lot of tech and mx paid for too.

Larbre34

I should've guessed procurement of the EPV / MRV would start off on the wrong foot - HMNZS Canterbury was a disaster of a project, mainly down to the selection of an off-the-shelf Ro-Ro ferry design which had dreadful sea-keeping in the southern ocean and exposed rear decks which lost assets in high seas too. I imagine an Irish MRV would face the same or worse in the North Atlantic.

If we are sending delegations, we should look closer to home and visit the various modular ship builders in Europe and go for a bespoke superstructure on a proven hull

sparky42

Larbre34 wrote: »

I should've guessed procurement of the EPV / MRV would start off on the wrong foot - HMNZS Canterbury was a disaster of a project, mainly down to the selection of an off-the-shelf Ro-Ro ferry design which had dreadful sea-keeping in the southern ocean and exposed rear decks which lost assets in high seas too. I imagine an Irish MRV would face the same or worse in the North Atlantic.

If we are sending delegations, we should look closer to home and visit the various modular ship builders in Europe and go for a bespoke superstructure on a proven hull

Given that the design can't fit the Dockyard, I think the idea is more a scoping/lesson's learned process than any firm commitment to the design itself. As such the Navy Facebook page confirms that 2 lads are going to watch the NZ Ex Southern Katipo and the Canterbury in action.

jonnybigwallet

This ship is a complete dog and was one of the worst purchases the rnzn ever made. A roro ferry with a peashooter forward facing gun. Hardly a fit replacement as flagship of the Irish Navy. When the idea was first mooted several years ago for a multi role vessel the thinking was to go for a real gutsy ship with war fighting capabilities and the Absalon class from Denmark was mentioned. Given its modular design it could be modified and extra capability added over a number of years. There should be at least one ship in the fleet with standoff capability and this dog does not for the bill.

sparky42

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

This ship is a complete dog and was one of the worst purchases the rnzn ever made. A roro ferry with a peashooter forward facing gun. Hardly a fit replacement as flagship of the Irish Navy. When the idea was first mooted several years ago for a multi role vessel the thinking was to go for a real gutsy ship with war fighting capabilities and the Absalon class from Denmark was mentioned. Given its modular design it could be modified and extra capability added over a number of years. There should be at least one ship in the fleet with standoff capability and this dog does not for the bill.

Again, by it's very design it's not going to be picked as it's too large (and if we are going to go to the trouble of paying to change it then it gets more insane). More likely it's meant to be a fact finding mission as to what they use her for and how we could use such a type of vessel. An Absalon has issues with both costs (more than the reported price) and the fact that the hard that built them isn't doing Naval hulls anymore.

roadmaster

sparky42 wrote: »

Again, by it's very design it's not going to be picked as it's too large (and if we are going to go to the trouble of paying to change it then it gets more insane). More likely it's meant to be a fact finding mission as to what they use her for and how we could use such a type of vessel. An Absalon has issues with both costs (more than the reported price) and the fact that the hard that built them isn't doing Naval hulls anymore.

Do you think there is a chance that we will end up with two more Beckett's replacing the CPVS , I am thinking with brexit going on will the British give funding/Support towards appledore to keep it open who will then be able to sale them to us at a very competitive price?