3 New Navy Vessels for Irish Naval Service

sparky42 · 06-11-2017 4:50pm

roadmaster wrote: »

Do you think there is a chance that we will end up with two more Beckett's replacing the CPVS , I am thinking with brexit going on will the British give funding/Support towards appledore to keep it open who will then be able to sale them to us at a very competitive price?

I think it's too early to tell, I mean you are talking about post 2020 for the CPV replacement, the budgets just won't support it before that given the EPV/CASA projects, though one of them may end up being retired to make up the crew for P64 when it joins the fleet. At the same time if Babcock gets the 31 project next year then Appledore might have module work for them by the time we are looking at new hulls.

roadmaster · 09-11-2017 11:45pm

I was just thinking a long the lines when the next ship is delivered that if the yard ended up with no work the UK government just to keep it open might make us an offer we couldn't refuse to put In an order for two more ships. Did Navy ask for the current ship from the government or where they expecting to get it?

Markcheese · 10-11-2017 6:45am

roadmaster wrote:

I was just thinking a long the lines when the next ship is delivered that if the yard ended up with no work the UK government just to keep it open might make us an offer we couldn't refuse to put In an order for two more ships. Did Navy ask for the current ship from the government or where they expecting to get it?

Are the UK government even involved in Appledore?
Isn't it some part of BAE,?

roadmaster · 10-11-2017 11:25am

Markcheese wrote: »

Are the UK government even involved in Appledore?
Isn't it some part of BAE,?

I Don't think so but that won't stop them helping them with tax breaks etc

sparky42 · 10-11-2017 3:33pm

roadmaster wrote: »

I was just thinking a long the lines when the next ship is delivered that if the yard ended up with no work the UK government just to keep it open might make us an offer we couldn't refuse to put In an order for two more ships. Did Navy ask for the current ship from the government or where they expecting to get it?

As I said by the time we get to ordering the Peacock replacements (around 2022 ish) Babcock may be in the middle of delivering the first of the Type 31's, which has been intended to be built in blocks so Appledore may be used there. But given that 64 is due next year, the yard is going to have to find something between that, and nothing is planned other than the Eithne replacement in that time frame.

sparky42 · 10-11-2017 3:34pm

Markcheese wrote: »

Are the UK government even involved in Appledore?
Isn't it some part of BAE,?

No Appledore is owned by Babcock which is a rival of BAE and has joined with BMT for the Type 31 project. I don't think the UK Government has any ownership of the yard.

jonnybigwallet · 20-11-2017 5:14pm

There is a suggestion that 31e may be a stretched and enhanced version of Becket class (with heli carrying capability). It is also mooted that the parties concerned are hoping that this will be tailored as an exportable platform. Well if the design develops along suitable lines....who knows? It might be a goer... as long as it can transport a company of troops and their equipment and can include a modest hospital. Would have favoured the Absalon meself. A beast of the seas!

jonnybigwallet · 20-11-2017 5:14pm

There is a suggestion that 31e may be a stretched and enhanced version of Becket class (with heli carrying capability). It is also mooted that the parties concerned are hoping that this will be tailored as an exportable platform. Well if the design develops along suitable lines....who knows? It might be a goer... as long as it can transport a company of troops and their equipment and can include a modest hospital. Would have favoured the Absalon meself. A beast of the seas!

sparky42 · 21-11-2017 12:10am

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

There is a suggestion that 31e may be a stretched and enhanced version of Becket class (with heli carrying capability). It is also mooted that the parties concerned are hoping that this will be tailored as an exportable platform. Well if the design develops along suitable lines....who knows? It might be a goer... as long as it can transport a company of troops and their equipment and can include a modest hospital. Would have favoured the Absalon meself. A beast of the seas!

The 31e suggestion from Babcock isn't a direct relative from the P60's I don't think and will change more due to their tie up with BMT, more over it's going to be at least £250 million most likely £300 million given the Project management, and forget about "exportable platform" the UK sticks that label on every project (the 42's, the 21/22/23's, the U class subs, the 26's...) it never works out that way. The design itself is meant to be developed on an extremely tight timeline and at best would mean we'd have to buy nearly a first in class to replace Eithne on schedule.

Since we have no idea of what the EPV will be since the suggestion a decade ago now, were going to have wait and see what exactly the thinking of the Navy is next year or the year afterwards.

jonnybigwallet · 26-11-2017 10:33am

Indeed. There are a few worthy contenders out there from French and German yards. Here's hoping they don't buy some mickey mouse ship just to save money. I'd favour something with two forward facing guns. One 5 inch, and equipped with missiles and a helicopter as well.

sparky42 · 26-11-2017 6:32pm

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

Indeed. There are a few worthy contenders out there from French and German yards. Here's hoping they don't buy some mickey mouse ship just to save money. I'd favour something with two forward facing guns. One 5 inch, and equipped with missiles and a helicopter as well.

Not sure any of the current French/German designs meet what we are looking at to be honest, and I highly doubt we'll have more than a 76mm (with Eithne gone we'll finally have a standard fit in the fleet), at best she'll be FFBNW missiles systems, and while there's highlighted a plan for a helipad I don't see the Air Corps getting a new system anytime soon (and then there's the question of how many needed to make it viable/sustainable...)

BoJack Horseman · 28-11-2017 6:14pm

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

There is a suggestion that 31e may be a stretched and enhanced version of Becket class

None of the design concepts are related to the Beckett.

The Beckett class is designed by "Vard Marine" in Canada.

They do actually have a larger design.
100m vs the Becketts 90m

Here's the design PDF

https://vardmarine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/VARD-7-100.pdf

Imagine a Beckett with a separate hanger superstructure to the rear.

The weapons loadout is for a USCG competition which I think Vard Marine won.

roadmaster · 28-11-2017 9:44pm

When it comes to replacing eithne for maintance and training commonality would be possible to stretch a Beckett and put a hanger and helipad on it?

sparky42 · 28-11-2017 9:48pm

roadmaster wrote: »

When it comes to replacing eithne for maintance and training commonality would be possible to stretch a Beckett and put a hanger and helipad on it?

I'd say it all depends on what it's meant to be, if we are still talking about having the sea lift planned or not.

If they are looking at something that's twice the tonnage of the Beckett's I'd say the design would have to be so much, if however the Seal lift has been reduced in scope perhaps it could be.

Markcheese · 28-11-2017 10:07pm

Crew of 125... For a ship that does what a beckett does.. But with a helipad...

sparky42 · 28-11-2017 10:30pm

For the USCG design? Remember US designs tend to run with larger crew numbers than comparative Western designs,

BoJack Horseman · 29-11-2017 9:39am

Markcheese wrote: »

Crew of 125... For a ship that does what a beckett does.. But with a helipad...

Up to 125 persons on board.

Not necessarily what the ship needs to run.

The much larger USCG "legend class" cutters have a crew of 113

roadmaster · 30-11-2017 12:03pm

If the navy had a choice which would be better for the state a MRV or more hulls instead?

sparky42 · 30-11-2017 12:41pm

roadmaster wrote: »

If the navy had a choice which would be better for the state a MRV or more hulls instead?

Not enough manpower for more hulls even at full strength and no indication that we are going to see a major change on that from, so I'd go with the MRV.

roadmaster · 30-11-2017 2:09pm

sparky42 wrote: »

Not enough manpower for more hulls even at full strength and no indication that we are going to see a major change on that from, so I'd go with the MRV.

If we are struggling to crew what we have would we be able to a crew a MRV?

sparky42 · 30-11-2017 3:00pm

roadmaster wrote: »

If we are struggling to crew what we have would we be able to a crew a MRV?

Because the core of the crew will come from Eithne when she is decommissioned like we've played musical chairs bringing the P60's online, though what happens regarding 64 is a question, does one of the Peacocks get sold or put into reserve?

roadmaster · 30-11-2017 3:34pm

if you where to park up ciara or orla could canablise one for parts to keep the other going longer or would that be a waste of time

Larbre34 · 03-12-2017 2:24pm

Ciara and Orla are both needed for their capability in the shallows until a purpose bought CPV or two are procured. You may see this before the MRV as many economical CPV options are available off the shelf.

sparky42 · 03-12-2017 4:32pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

Ciara and Orla are both needed for their capability in the shallows until a purpose bought CPV or two are procured. You may see this before the MRV as many economical CPV options are available off the shelf.

The MRV has started getting funded from next year, don't think there's anything funding for the Peacock replacements, more over with the WP suggestion of having some counter IED capability for the CPV replacement I don't know if there is something "off the shelf".

mikeym · 03-12-2017 10:47pm

The Naval Service seem to be going for bigger ships.

The CPV vessels wont be replaced for like for like which is a shame because compared to other Navy's the Irish have a small fleet.

sparky42 · 04-12-2017 11:54am

mikeym wrote: »

The Naval Service seem to be going for bigger ships.

The CPV vessels wont be replaced for like for like which is a shame because compared to other Navy's the Irish have a small fleet.

The WP is still calling for similar tonnage hulls, with Brexit and all of the potential fishing issues, I'd think the chances are high that we'll see similar type hulls.

roadmaster · 05-12-2017 4:25pm

could the same role of the CPVS be done with Becketts using there ribs?

Markcheese · 05-12-2017 4:53pm

roadmaster wrote:

could the same role of the CPVS be done with Becketts using there ribs?

Are the peacocks at the end of their life span or could they get a refit and keep going? Also do the coast gaurd cutters get much use? Anytime I pass their dock in kinsale they seem to be there.. Always though they should be co-opted into the navy and paired with peacocks for inshore patroling...

Leonidas BL · 07-12-2017 7:52pm

Could we not get a few of these babies and station them around the country for quick response??

https://www.safehavenmarine.com/barracuda

sparky42 · 07-12-2017 8:20pm

Leonidas BL wrote: »

Could we not get a few of these babies and station them around the country for quick response??

https://www.safehavenmarine.com/barracuda

We don't have the manpower for what we have, what purpose do you see them being?

3 New Navy Vessels for Irish Naval Service

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