3 New Navy Vessels for Irish Naval Service

jonnybigwallet

That's a great idea. Could even get the Rangers involved as well. Maybe drop on to the ship and wipe out all the unfriendly crew. The bugger off and let the navy finish it off.

Larbre34

MAULBROOK wrote: »

Might as well arm up the AW139s and have a field day of it.

You want to try and sink a ship with door mounted 7.62 GPMGs?

Hope you brought your credit card.

Dohvolle

Tender went up today for 4 motor launches for the NS. 15m with a crew of 4. There will be sleeping accom aboard for these 4 but it will also have provision to carry passengers and support divers or carry out survey.
I'm thinking something along the lines of HMS Magpie, which was built in Cork. That was based on this design, which I travelled in, and which is a mighty vessel.

Peregrine

Dohvolle wrote: »

Tender went up today for 4 motor launches for the NS. 15m with a crew of 4. There will be sleeping accom aboard for these 4 but it will also have provision to carry passengers and support divers or carry out survey.
I'm thinking something along the lines of HMS Magpie, which was built in Cork. That was based on this design, which I travelled in, and which is a mighty vessel.

For the Reserve, I presume?

Alkers

Dohvolle wrote: »

Tender went up today for 4 motor launches for the NS. 15m with a crew of 4. There will be sleeping accom aboard for these 4 but it will also have provision to carry passengers and support divers or carry out survey.
I'm thinking something along the lines of HMS Magpie, which was built in Cork. That was based on this design, which I travelled in, and which is a mighty vessel.

Are they cats or monohulls or does it specify?

jonnybigwallet

I like them boats that Safehaven Marine build down in Youghal. Might be too slick for the reservists though. Handy to have a couple on board the P90's or the new MRV.

Dohvolle

Alkers wrote: »

Are they cats or monohulls or does it specify?

Doesn't say.

2. These vessels will be used in a variety of roles and should provide a versatile and adaptable platform to enable the completion of certain operational tasking’s including but not limited to:
i. Maritime Security Operations.
ii. Port Security Operations.
iii. Limited Diving Support.
iv. Limited Underwater Surveys

5. The Motor launch will have twin diesel engines driving twin drive shaft propeller arrangement suitable for estuarine, inshore and not more than forty (40) Nautical Miles offshore patrolling. It will also provide a platform for support of diving and hydrographic survey operations. Allowing for its working environment and speed, the launch will be relatively ‘dry’ and stable whilst under way; any special design considerations or features in this regard should be made known to the Naval Service Project Manager. The launch will be of proven design for P5 Class use.

6. The vessel will be no more no more than thirty (30) tonnes at full load displacement. Its Length overall between twelve (12) and fifteen (15) metres, the vessels beam will be four (4) to six (6) meters and the vessels draft should not exceed two (2) meters. The vessel will have a cruising speed of fourteen (14) knots and a maximum speed of sixteen (16) knots. These vessels will have an endurance of forty-eight (48) hours and minimum operational range of two hundred and seventy (270) Nautical miles.

Length Overall: 12.0 to 15.0 Meters
Beam: 4.0 to 6.0 meters
Draft: not to exceed 2.0 meters.
Displacement: not to exceed 30 tonnes
Max Speed: 16 knots.
Service speed: 14 Knots
Propulsion type: Twin Screw

I found this interesting. Could it be compatible with being carried aboard the MRV?

17. Lifting points
Vessels will have dedicated lifting points. Lift can be by slings or wire rope strops. Proposals to be discussed and agreed with INS Project Manager prior to tender being awarded. Lift strong points or lifting sling position to be clearly and permanently labelled.

fulanoquetal

Does anyone have info on what sort of patrol schedule the NS operates - how many patrol days/ship/month for example ?.

Everytime I am down in Cobh I am puzzled by the number of ships tied up. On Friday, there were 2 in the dockyard, 1 at the deepwater quay and 4 in the naval base. I think that leaves 2 which might be on patrol.

Why would we want additional ships if the utilization of existing ships seems so low ?

Also, why would a ship tie up on the Deepwater quay when the berth at Haulbowline is free- would they not have to pay CHC berthing fees if in Cobh ?

Dohvolle

fulanoquetal wrote: »

Does anyone have info on what sort of patrol schedule the NS operates - how many patrol days/ship/month for example ?.

Everytime I am down in Cobh I am puzzled by the number of ships tied up. On Friday, there were 2 in the dockyard, 1 at the deepwater quay and 4 in the naval base. I think that leaves 2 which might be on patrol.

Why would we want additional ships if the utilization of existing ships seems so low ?

Also, why would a ship tie up on the Deepwater quay when the berth at Haulbowline is free- would they not have to pay CHC berthing fees if in Cobh ?

While your question is in the realm of an operational matter it is well reported that there is a staffing shortage at present which has led to 2 ships being taken out of service (both are due for replacement in the next few years). One was in refit up to just last week. One suffered an accidental fire last year and was being repaired, I'm not sure how long more that will take but damage was considerable. So that's 4 out of service for starters.

2 ships on patrol on the particular day you saw them does not take into account what 2 other ships were doing the day before you saw them, which is none of your concern frankly.
Trying to schedule patrolling the nations waters with just 5 available ships is not a question of sending them all out in a show of force to keep the public happy.
Doing so means in 3 weeks time, once their patrol is over, all 5 will be back at base and nothing will be on patrol.
The deepwater is used while there are works in place at Spencer Jetty. The Oil wharf is not used because it is an oil wharf, not a lay-by berth. There are operational reasons why it isn't being used as a lay by.
Whatever arrangement there is between the Port of Cork and the Naval service is up to them. CHC ceased to exist in 1996.

roadmaster

The Tender Details seam extremely pacific. I wonder do they know what boat they want and who they want to build it especially if it means they don't have to leave lovely Cork

fulanoquetal

Dohvolle wrote: »

While your question is in the realm of an operational matter it is well reported that there is a staffing shortage at present which has led to 2 ships being taken out of service (both are due for replacement in the next few years). One was in refit up to just last week. One suffered an accidental fire last year and was being repaired, I'm not sure how long more that will take but damage was considerable. So that's 4 out of service for starters.

2 ships on patrol on the particular day you saw them does not take into account what 2 other ships were doing the day before you saw them, which is none of your concern frankly.
Trying to schedule patrolling the nations waters with just 5 available ships is not a question of sending them all out in a show of force to keep the public happy.
Doing so means in 3 weeks time, once their patrol is over, all 5 will be back at base and nothing will be on patrol.
The deepwater is used while there are works in place at Spencer Jetty. The Oil wharf is not used because it is an oil wharf, not a lay-by berth. There are operational reasons why it isn't being used as a lay by.
Whatever arrangement there is between the Port of Cork and the Naval service is up to them. CHC ceased to exist in 1996.

I have heard of the staffing shortage and issues with (younger) staff basically living onboard/in the base because of housing issues. Nevertheless. If you have 1 in refit and 1 in repair, are the crews doing that work or would they be available to crew on the 2 ships laid up for lack of crew?.

I also understand that there has to be some sort of rotation which considers vessel maintenance/provisioning, crew hours, weather. fishing patterns, training etc etc.

Haulbowline is base but with the coastline we have, I was wondering if there was a practice of trying to distribute resources around the coast. If something were to happen off the west coast, it woild take a day to get there...maybe more. Similarly for the E Coast.

I assume spencer Jetty is the 'main' one ?. How many ships can berth there ?. I think I have only seen 2 max and that is alongside. Which one is the oil jetty ?....not the little one opposite whitepoint is it ?

fulanoquetal

fulanoquetal wrote: »

I have heard of the staffing shortage and issues with (younger) staff basically living onboard/in the base because of housing issues. Nevertheless. If you have 1 in refit and 1 in repair, are the crews doing that work or would they be available to crew on the 2 ships laid up for lack of crew?.

I also understand that there has to be some sort of rotation which considers vessel maintenance/provisioning, crew hours, weather. fishing patterns, training etc etc.

Haulbowline is base but with the coastline we have, I was wondering if there was a practice of trying to distribute resources around the coast. If something were to happen off the west coast, it woild take a day to get there...maybe more. Similarly for the E Coast.

I assume spencer Jetty is the 'main' one ?. How many ships can berth there ?. I think I have only seen 2 max and that is alongside. Which one is the oil jetty ?....not the little one opposite whitepoint is it ?

Never mind found spencer Jetty on a map. So what I thought was spencer jstty is prob the oil jetty.

Dohvolle

fulanoquetal wrote: »

I have heard of the staffing shortage and issues with (younger) staff basically living onboard/in the base because of housing issues. Nevertheless. If you have 1 in refit and 1 in repair, are the crews doing that work or would they be available to crew on the 2 ships laid up for lack of crew?.

I also understand that there has to be some sort of rotation which considers vessel maintenance/provisioning, crew hours, weather. fishing patterns, training etc etc.

Haulbowline is base but with the coastline we have, I was wondering if there was a practice of trying to distribute resources around the coast. If something were to happen off the west coast, it woild take a day to get there...maybe more. Similarly for the E Coast.

I assume spencer Jetty is the 'main' one ?. How many ships can berth there ?. I think I have only seen 2 max and that is alongside. Which one is the oil jetty ?....not the little one opposite whitepoint is it ?

A ships crew is a ships crew. They live aboard for the 2 years they are assigned to it. You can't just swap and change between ships, because different types have different equipment fits. We have 4 classes of ship in service. When ship is in refit or repair it still has its crew which still have duties aboard. They don't all just walk away and leave it to the contractor. As a military vessel they need to be familiar with every step of the work being done, lest something goes wrong at sea and it needs to be fixed. No point ringing the contractor 200 miles off the west coast asking where he routed the cables for the equipment that has failed and left them dead in the water.
The NS isn't a fire brigade. They don't all rush out when something happens (though there are ships on notice for sea etc.) Distribution of assets and patrol patterns are not a matter for public discussion. End of.
The Oil Wharf is the one with the Oil tanks.

Dohvolle

roadmaster wrote: »

The Tender Details seam extremely pacific. I wonder do they know what boat they want and who they want to build it especially if it means they don't have to leave lovely Cork

It definitely seems that way. Safehaven always wanted to build boats in grey, it's just a pity they got to build one for a Foreign navy before the one at their doorstep.

Alkers

Dohvolle wrote: »

It definitely seems that way. Safehaven always wanted to build boats in grey, it's just a pity they got to build one for a Foreign navy before the one at their doorstep.

I didn't think it's too bad and could apply to a wide enough range of craft (which are relatively similar in fairness). 12-15m and then everything else seems to be just minimum requirements except for speed which seems to be capped at 16knots

fulanoquetal

Dohvolle wrote: »

A ships crew is a ships crew. They live aboard for the 2 years they are assigned to it. You can't just swap and change between ships, because different types have different equipment fits. We have 4 classes of ship in service. When ship is in refit or repair it still has its crew which still have duties aboard. They don't all just walk away and leave it to the contractor. As a military vessel they need to be familiar with every step of the work being done, lest something goes wrong at sea and it needs to be fixed. No point ringing the contractor 200 miles off the west coast asking where he routed the cables for the equipment that has failed and left them dead in the water.
The NS isn't a fire brigade. They don't all rush out when something happens (though there are ships on notice for sea etc.) Distribution of assets and patrol patterns are not a matter for public discussion. End of.
The Oil Wharf is the one with the Oil tanks.

Hey, I am only a tax payer with a passing interest in marine matters. I don't know what the operational principals or restrictions are and so I am asking some questions.

Dohvolle

fulanoquetal wrote: »

Hey, I am only a tax payer with a passing interest in marine matters. I don't know what the operational principals or restrictions are and so I am asking some questions.

And the answers I am giving you are worth every cent of the paltry 0.26% of GDP spent on defence.

Dohvolle

Alkers wrote: »

I didn't think it's too bad and could apply to a wide enough range of craft (which are relatively similar in fairness). 12-15m and then everything else seems to be just minimum requirements except for speed which seems to be capped at 16knots

Yeah, any decent sized angling boat with an Effer Crane and an A-Frame would fit the bill. It increases the chance of it being built in Ireland.

fulanoquetal

Dohvolle wrote: »

And the answers I am giving you are worth every cent of the paltry 0.26% of GDP spent on defence.

And the patronizing passive aggression is free....

Larbre34

Are there any examples of the type of Naval motor launch described in the tender already in service elsewhere?

Dohvolle

Larbre34 wrote: »

Are there any examples of the type of Naval motor launch described in the tender already in service elsewhere?

It seems similar to the Hollyhead 15m type in size and characteristics, but the speed limitation is cause for confusion.



It's open to interpretation though.

jonnybigwallet

Doubt if they'd put any arnaments on it. Though I would obviously be in favour of the most aggressive bit of kit they can lay their hands on. That Safehaven boat is my choice. Good idea to make it in Ireland.

Dohvolle

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

Doubt if they'd put any arnaments on it. Though I would obviously be in favour of the most aggressive bit of kit they can lay their hands on. That Safehaven boat is my choice. Good idea to make it in Ireland.

It will be fitted for armament fore and aft, as per RFT.

12. Weapons Mountings.
The vessel will be fitted with two gun mounts. These will be provided and fitted by Government personnel. One mount will be located forward of the wheelhouse and one mount located aft.
A weapons cabinet should be provided and fitted. The location and proposed cabinet is to be discussed with the INS project manager. This cabinet will be made from steel with the door fully interlocked to the body. It will have a safe type bolt with a three way locking system. The Max Dimensions allowable are (mm) 1600H, 575W, 500D.

Feisar

fulanoquetal wrote: »

And the patronizing passive aggression is free....

You’d swear you were asking about the location of an aircraft carrier, not something about one step up from the missus and myself renting a row boat on the local lake LOL.

sparky42

Feisar wrote: »

You’d swear you were asking about the location of an aircraft carrier, not something about one step up from the missus and myself renting a row boat on the local lake LOL.

So why do you care?

Larbre34

Dohvolle wrote: »

It will be fitted for armament fore and aft, as per RFT.

Fancy that.

roadmaster

Larbre34 wrote: »

Fancy that.

That's for the Navy's new ATC role to keep drunken sailors on the liffey in line

Yawlboy

Dohvolle wrote: »

It definitely seems that way. Safehaven always wanted to build boats in grey, it's just a pity they got to build one for a Foreign navy before the one at their doorstep.

They built 4 cats for the Polish Navy as well as HMS Magpie

http://www.safehavenmarineold.com/2014%20MH1%20first%20Polish%20Navy%20Wildcat%2040.htm

Dohvolle

Yawlboy wrote: »

They built 4 cats for the Polish Navy as well as HMS Magpie

http://www.safehavenmarineold.com/2014%20MH1%20first%20Polish%20Navy%20Wildcat%2040.htm

Now yer talkin.
I suppose it all comes down to price, and Frank ain't bargain basement.
I have seen the quality of the build up close though, worth it in the long run.

Tabnabs

A shame about the speed limit as I hear the Storebro SB90E is a hell of a lot of fun to drive and still in production.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ig8Ra_JMPM