Martin will be Taoiseach within 5 years

D1stant

If we could forget the last 3 years.. and eventually the voters will, I think Martin is going to be very good for FF

He is significantly smoother and better with the media than Kenny or Gilmore

Already his messaging is more plausible than anything we have heard from Cowen or Bertie in the last 5 years

I bet FG wish they had him. Kenny is a dimwit

He will destroy the other 2 at the debates

p.s. I have never and will never vote FF

johnnyskeleton

Probably there will be an initial bump in their rating because of him because he has been largely out of the limelight.

Now he is in the hotseat and that will make the questions asked of him a lot harder. Even if you think about what has happened over the last 3 years, even though Lenihan is far more culpable than Cowen, Cowen is the one that gets the blame.

So it is far too early to know how Martin will get on, nevermind that he will be Taoiseach within 5 years.

kev9100

Yeah probably. Its sad to think how gullible the Irish people are.

Raffo69

If we're still in the s**ts in 5years I doubt it very much. Fianna Fail will always be blamed for this mess

oppenheimer1

D1stant wrote: »

If we could forget the last 3 years.. and eventually the voters will, I think Martin is going to be very good for FF

He is significantly smoother and better with the media than Kenny or Gilmore

Already his messaging is more plausible than anything we have heard from Cowen or Bertie in the last 5 years

I bet FG wish they had him. Kenny is a dimwit

He will destroy the other 2 at the debates

p.s. I have never and will never vote FF

Kenny is no dimwit, he is just bad, or rather terrible with the media. He appears wooden and its hard to warm to him. Gilmore is good on TV, but yeah you're right Martin does seem to have that statesman like charisma about him. It was interesting the way the media reacted to him this evening - they seemed to enjoy his presence and lapped up everything he was saying. It looks like he will be presented as a fresh new face to FF, even though hes not.

Martin will wipe the floor with both Kenny and Gilmore in the TV debates despite the two others having barrels of ammunition. He appears to be a more skilled orator and calmer personality then the others.

Will he be taoiseach? Hard to know, he has a major task of rebuilding the party, however I feel he will give them a bump in the polls. Being in health and foreign affairs he is seen as less complicit in the catastrophe that befell the economy - with the two main actors now gone.

What I can say is that Kenny won't last as taoiseach. The knives are in the drawer and they'll be out for him with the first dip in the polls.

MidlandsM

D1stant wrote: »

Kenny is a dimwit

He will destroy the other 2 at the debates

p.s. I have never and will never vote FF

Kennys no dimwit, in fairness to him , he rebuilt FG - if Martin can rebuild FF half as good he'll be doing well.

Re; Debates; Gilmore or Adams will have martin for lunch in any debate.


and ps...nor will I vote FF too.:p I also have no political afiliation etc.

The Volt

Gilmore will destroy Martin and I look forward to it.

Sir Oxman

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Probably there will be an initial bump in their rating because of him because he has been largely out of the limelight.

Now he is in the hotseat and that will make the questions asked of him a lot harder. Even if you think about what has happened over the last 3 years, even though Lenihan is far more culpable than Cowen, Cowen is the one that gets the blame.

So it is far too early to know how Martin will get on, nevermind that he will be Taoiseach within 5 years.

The appointment of Martin will provide a boost for FF from it's own core base - people that vote FF who weren't going to turn out because they had some kind of conscience, probably will turn out and vote FF in some mad belief that this guy who sat with Ahern and Cowen and McCreevey and Harney and McDowell and who signed off everything with the rest of them is somehow different.

Laois_Man

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Probably there will be an initial bump in their rating because of him because he has been largely out of the limelight.

Now he is in the hotseat and that will make the questions asked of him a lot harder. Even if you think about what has happened over the last 3 years, even though Lenihan is far more culpable than Cowen, Cowen is the one that gets the blame.

So it is far too early to know how Martin will get on, nevermind that he will be Taoiseach within 5 years.

Congratulations. You get my vote for the worst post this year so far - mainly thanks to your assertion that Lenihan is more culpable for our mess than Cowen.

Mr.Micro

Voltwad wrote: »

Gilmore will destroy Martin and I look forward to it.

Martin is lightweight and people will soon see through that. What has he got to offer but more of the same crap that FF have inflicted on the country, the while telling us its for the good of the country. The upside is anybody is better than Biffo.

Mr.Micro

gambiaman wrote: »

The appointment of Martin will provide a boost for FF from it's own core base - people that vote FF who weren't going to turn out because they had some kind of conscience, probably will turn out and vote FF in some mad belief that this guy who sat with Ahern and Cowen and McCreevey and Harney and McDowell and who signed off everything with the rest of them is somehow different.

His old hogwash is great for the faithful but what has he done in his tenure.....the smoking ban, and that was some other persons idea. The other things he did were to go along with Bertie and the rest. He is now born again FF not new and fresh but stale and out of date with a bad taint.

Laois_Man

D1stant wrote: »

If we could forget the last 3 years.. and eventually the voters will, I think Martin is going to be very good for FF

He is significantly smoother and better with the media than Kenny or Gilmore

Already his messaging is more plausible than anything we have heard from Cowen or Bertie in the last 5 years

I bet FG wish they had him. Kenny is a dimwit

He will destroy the other 2 at the debates

p.s. I have never and will never vote FF

I think he will be Taoiseach after the election after this one. We can say in hindsight that whoever won the 2007 election was in for a hiding at the next one. I think we can say in foresight that whoever wins this one is in for a hiding at the next one after this in about 2015 or so - when the junior coalation partner(s) will again try to distance itself from the unpopular government leaders in an effort to save their own seats. And no doubt about it - unpopular they will be with the amount of cuts and tax hikes they will have to introduce in the meantime.

hotmail.com

Will FG and Labour serve out the full term?

Labour has never been in government for a full 5 year term with another party.

Atlantic Dawn

Unless we discover €500 billion worth of oil off the coast and get a contract where the oil is not given away for free like the gas this recession is going nowhere, neither is the blame.

Laois_Man

hotmail.com wrote: »

Will FG and Labour serve out the full term?

Labour has never been in government for a full 5 year term with another party.

No. My reasoning above. Governments have not and will not ever last full terms in times of austerity.

Mr.Micro

hotmail.com wrote: »

Will FG and Labour serve out the full term?

Labour has never been in government for a full 5 year term with another party.

Well if FG/Lab do get in then I hope they do as we certainly cannot afford Fianna Failure and more debt.

blue_steel

He or any other Fianna Failer will never be taoiseach. Oh sure they'll always get a few votes off the OAPs who remember Dev and those dimwit wanna-be-young-conservatives (Ogra or whatever they call themselves) but the generation-long fallout of their policies will ensure the rest of us don't forget in a hurry. And as their base dies off they will dwindle to nothing.

Bottle_of_Smoke

To be honest I reckon if FG/Lab go in together it will fall after 18months then labour will be scapegoated and FG get back in with an overall majority.

ArtSmart

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

To be honest I reckon if FG/Lab go in together it will fall after 18months then labour will be scapegoated and FG get back in with an overall majority.

naw, not a chance. Happy and Kenny (and Kenny's replacement) wont sacrifice power unless the world actually ends - literally ends (cos then they'll have no choice then you see...)

as for the debates - yeah, MM may have the upper hand, but MM's strength is also his weakness. ie the calm measured honest broker routine.

as for the destiny of the soldiers - impossible to call until the election results are in in a few months/ weeks

anyway, Vb on.

force eleven

Heard a lot of Martin debating during the Lisbon debates. Not impressive, a waffler. Safe pair of hands for FF now but ultimately they'll be in opposition for the next decade anyway, and fully deserved too.

The Volt

ArtSmart wrote: »

naw, not a chance. Happy and Kenny (and Kenny's replacement) wont sacrifice power unless the world actually ends - literally ends (cos then they'll have no choice then you see...)

as for the debates - yeah, MM may have the upper hand, but MM's strength is also his weakness. ie the calm measured honest broker routine.

as for the destiny of the soldiers - impossible to call until the election results are in in a few months/ weeks

anyway, Vb on.

This just in, O'Cuiv is a socialist :pac:

spider guardian

So much for the race being between Martin and Lenihan, O'Cuiv came in second place.

Martin striking the first blow against Cowen was the deciding factor for him. Lenihan wasn't decisive enough although in fairness he already had enough on his plate.

Give Martin five years in opposition to hone his killer instinct and we'll see how things work out.

kev9100

Voltwad wrote: »

This just in, O'Cuiv is a socialist :pac:

You watching Vincent Browne by any chance? I had to laugh when O'Cuiv started arguing for social justice!!

The Volt

kev9100 wrote: »

You watching Vincent Browne by any chance? I had to laugh when O'Cuiv started arguing for social justice!!

Yeah he's coming across as a right gombeen.

leggo

Fianna Fail are the equivalent to prick boyfriends that us gullible Irish will ALWAYS end up going back to, saying they've 'changed'. So yes, I think it's likely that stamp a new, frendlier face on the same old ****e and they'll be back in power within a few years.

(Incidentally, for anyone who's interested in the political/boyfriend metaphor, Fine Gael are the aggressive pricks who never get ANY girls and bemoan how they're all lesbians; Labour are the nice guys who never get anywhere; and Sinn Fein are the lads who don't give a ****e, get a different girl every night but never get married. Think Will Ferrell in Wedding Crashers)

Traumadoc

Martin is a pretty smooth operator, he took over the Lisbon II from Dick Roche, and it got through, he also got the smoking ban in place when he had been deserted by his collegues.

He also deposed Cowen and after the first vote gave a speech that ment he was not castigated as a result, infact Lenihan and hanifan came out of it worse!

He has not been tarnished as much as the others In the financial fiasco either.

He interestingly met the press outside his modest semi -d,

I cannot stand fianna fail , but Martin will be taoiseach probably in 7 years.

donkey balls

Martin preceded over the introduction of that farce which is the HSE also the large amount of money that was put into FAS, Even though we nearly had full employment in the country at the time as a non smoker I will give him credit for the smoking ban.:rolleyes:

D1stant

MidlandsM wrote: »

Kennys no dimwit, in fairness to him , he rebuilt FG - if Martin can rebuild FF half as good he'll be doing well.
.

Sorry. I disagree. Kenny was sitting in a boat when the tide came in that is all. How much of FGs rising is due to him? Very little I think

This is the guy who is going to 'stand down' the FG 'web connection point'!

Why is he absent in the last weeks? Because even his own party know he's a muppet

Oasis_Dublin

Irish people are stupid. Of course Martin will be Taoiseach in 5 years. FG have never won back to back full term elections

yoshytoshy

I think I'll call him smokey martin from now on ,he did actually bring up the smoking band as something he's done for the country in an interview latetly.
But didn't actually say much else:)

oppenheimer1

Voltwad wrote: »

Gilmore will destroy Martin and I look forward to it.

what makes you think that?

people talk about martin being a waffler on here, gilmore is king waffler.

but that said i don't think gilmore could be any worse than his 2nd in command. pathetic really. let's hope fine gael get an overall majority

D1stant

MM versus Inda is a no contest

MM versus Gilmore is more interesting. Gilmore is pure Shakespeare, without the gravity. Wit versus Soundbite

Tis a tangled web connection point indeed

aftermn

MM, MMMM, MMMMMMMMM, can't really think of anything he has done. 13 years in government and nothing to report. In one way it's impressive, in a ducking and diving kind of way. He is pretending not to be, but he is definitley one of them.
If he is Taoiseach in 5 years I'm leaving, well not really, I'm too old to start again.

skelliser

aftermn wrote: »

MM, MMMM, MMMMMMMMM, can't really think of anything he has done. 13 years in government and nothing to report. In one way it's impressive, in a ducking and diving kind of way.

+1

Martin is a spoofer and snake of the highest other.
He has ducked and dived his whole career.
More of the same will happen under his tenure but eventually he will be found out.

lets hope sooner rather then later if/when he becomes taoiseach, the last thing we need is another Bertie!

Notice how he very much kept his head down the last few years, especially the last year.
Remember he was in foreign affairs when the IMF arrived, no where to be seen, yet he blamed Cowen for that fiasco!

He imo epitomes the following trait in irish politics.
Takes credit for the supposed great things he achieved but its not his responsibility when it gets ****ed.

squonk

I'm not an FF supporter and I've never been a fan of Martin. I give him credit for the Smoking Ban. I think that was a great thing for any politician to have done but, besides that to me he comes across as a sleeveen. Having heard him speak since he was elected leader doesn't fill me with confidence either. It's still the same old FF rhetoric and, frankly, saying sorry now at this late stage when emigration is rife and the country is on it's knees doesn't really cut it in my book.

FF will never get a vote from me again. I was always a bit unsure of the fundamental differences between FG/Lab/FF in our party system but I'm a bit clearer now. FF are, and at this rate, will always be a pack of self-serving cowboys and chancers who'd sell their own granny, and country if there was a chance of a few bob and a load of votes out of the deal. Changing the man at the top doesn't change that, especially when the new man was involved in government while the chain of events that brought us to where we are now was unfolding.

I felt some sympathy for the FF canvasser on Prime Time last night who said that in his day, FF stood for the party of the working classes, and presumably to help out those who were unable to help themselves. That was, I would presume, back in the Lemass days. Since then, a generation has grown up to whom FF means Haughey, Flynn, Bertie & Biffo where personal gain and profit is seen as more important. Martin won't change this in five years and it'll take a generation for the party to get back to any sort of true new humbler, caring stance. By then it may be too late as I can say that, for me and for those of us in the 20-40 age bracket, FF have shown their colours over the past decade. I, for one, won't be forgetting that easilly.

bladespin

Can't see FF being forgiven that easily TBH, it's a very different country we live in now.

I'll credit Martin with the smoking ban, that itself guarantees he'll never have a vote from me.

KerranJast

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

Irish people are stupid. Of course Martin will be Taoiseach in 5 years. FG have never won back to back full term elections

FF were always able to out-sell FG in the wild promises stakes. "Vote FF and we'll lower your taxes, increase state benefits, fix your potholes etc". No party can do that anymore given the state of the economy.

I suspect provided FG and Labour don't completely **** things up they'll be in power for the next two terms. It's going to take FF a looooong time to rebuild after this election.

After FG's disastrous 2002 election they were able to rebuild after time but they were never down to as few seats as FF could end up on given the recent polls. Also they were not responsible for destroying the economy of the country and bringing the ECB/IMF to the door. That stigma is going to stick to FF for a good while to come.

Balmed Out

Cant see Martin being taoiseach in 5 years as A) Id hope and pray they wouldnt get elected again and They are so screwed that hed want to be a magician to still be leader of fianna fail in 5 years.

That said the guy has never been afraid to stand up and shake things up a bit, learning suport in school, hse (not working well at all but as still prob better then health boards), smoking ban, visiting gaza and being only eu foreign minister to say anything against Israel. FF did well picking him but at the end of the day ff are so up against it that i couldnt see superman making a sucess of them.

jmayo

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Kenny is no dimwit, he is just bad, or rather terrible with the media. He appears wooden and its hard to warm to him. Gilmore is good on TV, but yeah you're right Martin does seem to have that statesman like charisma about him. It was interesting the way the media reacted to him this evening - they seemed to enjoy his presence and lapped up everything he was saying. It looks like he will be presented as a fresh new face to FF, even though hes not.

Martin will wipe the floor with both Kenny and Gilmore in the TV debates despite the two others having barrels of ammunition. He appears to be a more skilled orator and calmer personality then the others.

Will he be taoiseach? Hard to know, he has a major task of rebuilding the party, however I feel he will give them a bump in the polls. Being in health and foreign affairs he is seen as less complicit in the catastrophe that befell the economy - with the two main actors now gone.

Jeeze oppie you're still here. Haven't seen much of you around since ff's little leadership debacle started.

BTW he is very complicit in the mess.
He was prominent minister in all governments post 1997.
Lest anyone forget he was the guy in health when the HSE grand quangoe was dreamed up.

He was in enterprise when Fás went apesh** spending their way around the world, yet we had theoretically full employment.

Voltwad wrote: »

This just in, O'Cuiv is a socialist :pac:

But shure wasn't bertie a socialist. :rolleyes:
BTW whose clothes did o'cuiv nick, not that Joe Higgins is in Strasburg ?

Traumadoc wrote: »

Martin is a pretty smooth operator, he took over the Lisbon II from Dick Roche, and it got through, he also got the smoking ban in place when he had been deserted by his collegues.

Ehh Lisbon II went through because people got scared that we had annoyed Europe too much.

Traumadoc wrote: »

He also deposed Cowen and after the first vote gave a speech that ment he was not castigated as a result, infact Lenihan and hanifan came out of it worse!

Jeeze deposing the most inept most unpopular ever leader of ff was some achievement alright. :rolleyes:

Traumadoc wrote: »

He has not been tarnished as much as the others In the financial fiasco either.

Yeah he just happened to have been a high ranking minister.
Nothing to do with him at all, right. :rolleyes:

Traumadoc wrote: »

He interestingly met the press outside his modest semi -d,

I cannot stand fianna fail , but Martin will be taoiseach probably in 7 years.

You wouldn't be from Cork by any chance ?

I also hear he rescues small furry aninals. :rolleyes:

D1stant wrote: »

If we could forget the last 3 years.. and eventually the voters will, I think Martin is going to be very good for FF

He is significantly smoother and better with the media than Kenny or Gilmore

Already his messaging is more plausible than anything we have heard from Cowen or Bertie in the last 5 years

I bet FG wish they had him. Kenny is a dimwit

He will destroy the other 2 at the debates

p.s. I have never and will never vote FF

Why would FG want a failed minister under whose watch as minister of health the HSE was setup and under whose watch Fás spent their way lavishly around the world ?

jmayo

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

what makes you think that?

people talk about martin being a waffler on here, gilmore is king waffler.

but that said i don't think gilmore could be any worse than his 2nd in command. pathetic really. let's hope fine gael get an overall majority

So can we take it you will vote for FG 1, 2, and 3 ?

Good man yourself.

Laminations

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

what makes you think that?

people talk about martin being a waffler on here, gilmore is king waffler.

but that said i don't think gilmore could be any worse than his 2nd in command. pathetic really. let's hope fine gael get an overall majority

It's not about propensity to waffle. Martin should be destroyed because he was a cabinet minister in a government that presided over the ruin of our country. Any points he raises can be combatted by a reminder of his 'achievements'.

ShumanTheHuman

I don't think the electorate will have forgotten the mess created by FF or the shambles in their leaving government in five year so I cannot see them getting back in after the next election. If this is correct MM faces the prospect of being the first leader of FF to sit out a full term on the opposition benches as well as being the first to sit on the opposition benches in two consecutive terms - what that will do to the psyche of the party that sees itself as the natural party of government is anyone's guess

Oasis_Dublin

KerranJast wrote: »

FF were always able to out-sell FG in the wild promises stakes. "Vote FF and we'll lower your taxes, increase state benefits, fix your potholes etc". No party can do that anymore given the state of the economy.

I suspect provided FG and Labour don't completely **** things up they'll be in power for the next two terms. It's going to take FF a looooong time to rebuild after this election.

After FG's disastrous 2002 election they were able to rebuild after time but they were never down to as few seats as FF could end up on given the recent polls. Also they were not responsible for destroying the economy of the country and bringing the ECB/IMF to the door. That stigma is going to stick to FF for a good while to come.

You are definitely giving Irish people far too much credit here. Anyone who saw the FF love in episode of the Frontline on RTÉ before Christmas knows that there are too many brainwashed FFers out there.

Laminations

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

You are definitely giving Irish people far too much credit here. Anyone who saw the FF love in episode of the Frontline on RTÉ before Christmas knows that there are too many brainwashed FFers out there.

This is what baffles me, I can somewhat understand the elderly stuck in their ways and scared of change sticking with FF because they always have but there are young intelligent people who are supporting FF. Matt Corbett (former NUI Maynooth student president) was on that Frontline spouting brainwashed bollox about how good FF are. He made a show of himself.

liammur

MidlandsM wrote: »

Kennys no dimwit, in fairness to him , he rebuilt FG - if Martin can rebuild FF half as good he'll be doing well.

Re; Debates; Gilmore or Adams will have martin for lunch in any debate.


and ps...nor will I vote FF too.:p I also have no political afiliation etc.

FF are nowhere near as low as 14% and likewise with FG in 2002, it was just a once off.
M Martin is a disaster waiting to happen, but he is well able to talk up his few acheivements and he won't mention some of his howlers, FAS/HSE/Nursing home fiasco/ a disastrous regional policy for IDA jobs

Liam Byrne

Was Martin somehow not involved in every decision the government made?

liammur

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Was Martin somehow not involved in every decision the government made?

The Germans warned M Martin (when he was minister for trade and enterprise) of dodgy ongoings in the IFSC - his reply: we are in favour of light touch regulation.

Shea O'Meara

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Unless we discover €500 billion worth of oil off the coast and get a contract where the oil is not given away for free like the gas this recession is going nowhere, neither is the blame.

Didn't Haughey and Burke sell all that under the table to the yanks?;)

Aidric

MidlandsM wrote: »

Kennys no dimwit, in fairness to him , he rebuilt FG -

Rebuilt it to the point where almost half his party have no confidence in his leadership.

galwayrush

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Was Martin somehow not involved in every decision the government made?

True, now he's trying to convince the gullible that all those 'mistakes' are all behinds us now, and let's forget about them and move on.:rolleyes:
Sad reality, many people will believe him....:mad:

Pity the gullible fools are not emigrating instead of our brightest youth.

oppenheimer1

jmayo wrote: »

Jeeze oppie you're still here. Haven't seen much of you around since ff's little leadership debacle started.

BTW he is very complicit in the mess.
He was prominent minister in all governments post 1997.
Lest anyone forget he was the guy in health when the HSE grand quangoe was dreamed up.

What can I say, I've had more pressing matters on my mind over the last few weeks - didn't have the time or the will to get drawn into a political debate on boards.

At the moment FG will most likely get my No. 1. However given the quality of candidates in my constituency its unlikely they will get my second or third preference.

Things change however and there is a long campaign ahead of us. I have noted Kennys lack of willingness to participate in a three way debate which can only be called cowardice. He knows he is a terrible debater and fears Martin and Gilmores skills in front of the camera.