Martin will be Taoiseach within 5 years

Ulysses Gaze

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

what makes you think that?

people talk about martin being a waffler on here, gilmore is king waffler.

but that said i don't think gilmore could be any worse than his 2nd in command. pathetic really. let's hope fine gael get an overall majority

People thought Lenihan would beat Noonan in the televised debate but Noonan dismantled Lenihans spoof.

Lenihan was a far better orator, more decisive than Martin.

Gilmore will take Martin apart, because unlike Kenny, he'll go for the jugular.

oicherider

Martin is their best bet alright..

5 years is a long time but i dont think that FF have ever taken a hit like this.. the only thing in their favour is the amount of their TDs retiring.. If Cowen and the other few high profilers left stay on that long I dont think that he will be..

On the other hand if they have very few candidates left to remind the public of what happened and cant be obviously tied to the whole fiasco then he might..

If the country has improved it will work against him but if not then people will revert back to FF out of desperation

My feeling is that we are going to be in for a fairly stable period in politics followed by one unstable coalition after another.. And Berties only regret is that we dont have a stadium!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! F***ing A*** hole!!!!

jmayo

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

What can I say, I've had more pressing matters on my mind over the last few weeks - didn't have the time or the will to get drawn into a political debate on boards.

At the moment FG will most likely get my No. 1. However given the quality of candidates in my constituency its unlikely they will get my second or third preference.

Things change however and there is a long campaign ahead of us. I have noted Kennys lack of willingness to participate in a three way debate which can only be called cowardice. He knows he is a terrible debater and fears Martin and Gilmores skills in front of the camera.

And I could see your allegation of cowardiuce and raise why martin thinks SF, a party with as high if not higher an opinon poll standing should be disregarded.
As Kenny stated what gives micky martin the rtight to dictate to anyone who or what should be included in debates ?

Oh and if we go on current Dáil seats then why not just have the two way debate between himself and Kenny.

oicherider wrote: »

Martin is their best bet alright..
...

And Berties only regret is that we dont have a stadium!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! F***ing A*** hole!!!!

Just you remember that "F***ing A*** hole" had martin as a prominent minister in all of his cabinets.
And martin supported that "F***ing A*** hole" even when he was twisting tales meerily down in Dublin Castle.

PatsytheNazi

Raffo69 wrote: »

If we're still in the s**ts in 5years I doubt it very much. Fianna Fail will always be blamed for this mess

I hope to God they do.

PatsytheNazi

skelliser wrote: »

+1

Martin is a spoofer and snake of the highest other.
He has ducked and dived his whole career.
More of the same will happen under his tenure but eventually he will be found out.

lets hope sooner rather then later if/when he becomes taoiseach, the last thing we need is another Bertie!

Notice how he very much kept his head down the last few years, especially the last year.
Remember he was in foreign affairs when the IMF arrived, no where to be seen, yet he blamed Cowen for that fiasco!

He imo epitomes the following trait in irish politics.
Takes credit for the supposed great things he achieved but its not his responsibility when it gets ****ed.

" Martin is a spoofer and snake of the highest other. " Your right, Ahern mark II. But will the vegetables that vote see it in 5 years time. Sadly, very sadly, I say no. " Ah sure, that was then, this is now, let's give him a chance " :rolleyes:

enda1

Martin will be the first leader of FF not to be Taoiseach.

They will elect a new leader in 4 years after the restructering has been complete, to properly distance themselves from the current situation and crop.

FF though will be nowhere near as decimated in the upcoming election as many here seem to suspect.

FG and Lab who will form to upcoming coalition government will struggle to implement real policies as Labour will prove a pain for FG as a partner in government. I see awkward taxation policies for the upcoming few years and squabbling over de-unionisation, benchmarking, privatisation etc.

FF will be brought back with open arms by the general public as they see Ireland's bounce back being stifled by Labour's stifling grip on big-business and freedom in the labour market.

My prediction anyway I expect most of it to come true.

danbohan

MidlandsM wrote: »

Kennys no dimwit, in fairness to him , he rebuilt FG - if Martin can rebuild FF half as good he'll be doing well.

Re; Debates; Gilmore or Adams will have martin for lunch in any debate.


and ps...nor will I vote FF too.:p I also have no political afiliation etc.

cowen is no dimwit either , does many of the population care , no .its all about perception . ireland is facing into very tough few years ahead maybe worse that what we have already experienced and the masses will have kenny to explain it to them and he has the media skills of a ran over snake , he will be the most hated politician in irish history within 5 years i have no doubt

Paddy Samurai

Martin will be Taoiseach within 5 years

LOl ...........not as mad as it sounds.
Its possible , it depends on how well FG and Labour get on together, in Government.......If one side sees an advantage in bringing down the government.......If they can work together and agree.(The labour candidate that called to my door last night ,had nothing good to say about FG.Spent most of his time running down Fg and saying how labour had nothing in common with them.LOL disagreed with the FG policies.I gave him no indication who i was voting for.)
Also it depends on what Martin does while in opposition.I think he will have to do a major revamp with FF to have a chance in the next election,and i think he knows that.
Interesting times ahead!.

D1stant

Is it sounding less and less daft?

Gilmore got roasted alive

Liam Byrne

D1stant wrote: »

If we could forget the last 3 years.. and eventually the voters will......

Hopefully Bobby Ewing shower scene in Dallas-style.

Because otherwise there's no opportunity to forget the last 3 years; the results of FF's disastrous tenure will be with us for far longer than that.

Spudmonkey

Voltwad wrote: »

Gilmore will destroy Martin and I look forward to it.

Didn't happen after all.

yosemite_sam

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Unless we discover €500 billion worth of oil off the coast and get a contract where the oil is not given away for free like the gas this recession is going nowhere, neither is the blame.

Oil was discovered last year off the west coast, I would not have a clue what the terms are though. But the tunnel they are building is big enough for an oil pipe

caseyann

I couldnt stand watching either of them debate today.My head is dizzy:(

D1stant

Bumpety bump bump bump

Just heard MM on Newstalk. He seems reborn...

Avns1s

D1stant wrote: »

Bumpety bump bump bump

Just heard MM on Newstalk. He seems reborn...

Reborn? As in like what you did with this 3 year old thread??

Red Nissan

Avns1s wrote: »

Reborn? As in like what you did with this 3 year old thread??

Like opening a time capsule, according to today's local elections the OP's thesis will not be fulfilled.

MidlandsM

Reborn....yeah......must be something in that humble pie he had to eat, after that creature hannafin re-enters political life.....some mess....

Blackrock got what they voted for there....the olde fart gray brigade saw to that.

jmayo

D1stant wrote: »

Bumpety bump bump bump

Just heard MM on Newstalk. He seems reborn...

Thank you for reminding us how your shower of gobsheens haven't quiet gone away sadly.

BTW is he still buddies with o'callaghan or was that link severed when the ar** fell out of the property business.

Red Nissan

jmayo wrote: »

BTW is he still buddies with o'callaghan or was that link severed when the ar** fell out of the property business.

O'Callaghan is still in shock I believe, he never suspected that giving brown envelopes with the requested amounts of cash was anything other than a Government TAX and normal business practice. :pac:

Judgement Day

Yep, so much for the much vaunted sophistication of the Irish electorate and it's all so damn predictable. Goldfish memories, civil war politics and disillusionment win-out yet again. :rolleyes:

Oasis_Dublin

What's the percentage of voting among different demographics? Is it those 65+, 90% vote, while those under 25, 30% vote?

D1stant

jmayo wrote: »

Thank you for reminding us how your shower of gobsheens haven't quiet gone away sadly.

BTW is he still buddies with o'callaghan or was that link severed when the ar** fell out of the property business.

My shower? I've never voted FF in my life. Never will. Read the OP before you make stupid assumptions

realweirdo

When I see FF making a comeback, I'm glad most power resides in Brussels and it lessons the damage FF can do at home.

RichardAnd

kev9100 wrote: »

Yeah probably. Its sad to think how gullible the Irish people are.

Voters in the United States managed to elected George W. Bush twice (kind of), and the Italians voted Berlusconi into power on three separate occasions. Although people here love to think that Ireland is uniquely docile and backward, humans are capable of stupidity all over the world.

The reason FF will be returned to power is that elections are rarely about placing the best candidate in the best office. Modern humans are so awash with cynicism that elections are usually a case of voting someone out rather than voting someone else in. In Ireland, this seems to be especially true as it gives the masses the illusion that they are getting some revenge on the powers that be.

TheCitizen

He could be Taoiseach by this time next year

alastair

Judgement Day

TheCitizen wrote: »

He could be Taoiseach by this time next year

In your dreams. Despite the dopey electorate the FF "The Toxic Party" are finished as SF have stolen their clothes.

firemansam4

I would say there is little doubt FF will make up part of the next Government, probably with MM as the Taoiseach.
Cant really see it being anything other than a FF / SF government.

It' a far cry from a couple of years ago when some people were saying FF were finished as a party.

PS. Ive never and I never will vote for either of them.

TheCitizen

Judgement Day wrote: »

In your dreams. Despite the dopey electorate the FF "The Toxic Party" are finished as SF have stolen their clothes.

This is a country that elected Enda Kenny as Taoiseach, I think that has taught us that any eejit in the right place at the right time could end up being Taoiseach. I'm not an FFer, but they have become the biggest party in the country at local level again, so by the time the General Election happens they could be the biggest party again. If that happens and Micheal Martin is leader of FF, then he'll be Taoiseach.

Red Nissan

TheCitizen wrote: »

This is a country that elected Enda Kenny as Taoiseach,

No, we did not.

We elect a group of people to a parliament, that is all we do.

Thereafter those individuals form a ruling body ~ technically illegal as all the TDs are part of the government ~ then the ruling body form an inner cabinet and the leader of the largest party is Taoiseach he then calls all the shots, he will have made certain deals to make this happen.

We do not elect the Taoiseach.

In local government we also elect a collective but in many of the larger ones like in Cork city we have a pack system whereby the largest parties combine to rule and 'elect' a Mayor ~ the Mayoralty is chosen and passed around so most get a chance ~ just because they agreed to this pact.

Technically this is also illegal and there is great pressure on to publically elect a Mayor, this system is coming on stream.

I do see the day where we elect the Taoiseach too, but currently we don't and the way the Dáil works, minimises democracy.

enda1

Red Nissan wrote: »

No, we did not.

We elect a group of people to a parliament, that is all we do.

Thereafter those individuals form a ruling body ~ technically illegal as all the TDs are part of the government ~ then the ruling body form an inner cabinet and the leader of the largest party is Taoiseach he then calls all the shots, he will have made certain deals to make this happen.

We do not elect the Taoiseach.

In local government we also elect a collective but in many of the larger ones like in Cork city we have a pack system whereby the largest parties combine to rule and 'elect' a Mayor ~ the Mayoralty is chosen and passed around so most get a chance ~ just because they agreed to this pact.

Technically this is also illegal and there is great pressure on to publically elect a Mayor, this system is coming on stream.

I do see the day where we elect the Taoiseach too, but currently we don't and the way the Dáil works, minimises democracy.

What makes all this "illegal"?

(And your definition of government is wrong)

jackofalltrades

Red Nissan wrote: »

... and there is great pressure on to publically elect a Mayor, this system is coming on stream.

Where is this system coming on stream? Seeing as they've scrapped the plans for Dublin.

Red Nissan

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Where is this system coming on stream? Seeing as they've scrapped the plans for Dublin.

This was to be the that last pact, it was extended and the new Council have already offered Independents the Mayoralty in support in a voting pacts ~

So it might well follow down the road on the ever longer finger.

Gregor Samsa

Red Nissan wrote: »

Thereafter those individuals form a ruling body ~ technically illegal as all the TDs are part of the government

All TDs are not part of the Government. The Government is the Cabinet and the Cabinet only.

Bunreacht na hÉireann, Article 28, Section 1:

"The Government shall consist of not less than seven and not more than fifteen members who shall be appointed by the President in accordance with the provisions of this Constitution."

raymon

firemansam4 wrote: »

I would say there is little doubt FF will make up part of the next Government, probably with MM as the Taoiseach.
Cant really see it being anything other than a FF / SF government.

It' a far cry from a couple of years ago when some people were saying FF were finished as a party.

PS. Ive never and I never will vote for either of them.

But could a man who was lodging a developers donation into his wife's AIB bank account be Taoiseach ?

petronius

I can not see a member of the old administration in FF getting elected taoiseach - maybe a Michael McGrath rather than a John McGuinness maybe a better option
Although the parliamentary party leaves few options at the minute for a new FF Leader

Godge

Red Nissan wrote: »

No, we did not.

We elect a group of people to a parliament, that is all we do.

Thereafter those individuals form a ruling body ~ technically illegal as all the TDs are part of the government ~ then the ruling body form an inner cabinet and the leader of the largest party is Taoiseach he then calls all the shots, he will have made certain deals to make this happen.

We do not elect the Taoiseach.

In local government we also elect a collective but in many of the larger ones like in Cork city we have a pack system whereby the largest parties combine to rule and 'elect' a Mayor ~ the Mayoralty is chosen and passed around so most get a chance ~ just because they agreed to this pact.

Technically this is also illegal and there is great pressure on to publically elect a Mayor, this system is coming on stream.

I do see the day where we elect the Taoiseach too, but currently we don't and the way the Dáil works, minimises democracy.

You mention a number of times in your post that certain things are illegal or technically illegal. Can you point me to the relevant statutes that are being broken?

From my own knowledge of the statutory and constitutional legislation there does not appear to be any law being broken. Maybe you could clarify?

Red Nissan

Godge wrote: »

You mention a number of times in your post that certain things are illegal or technically illegal. Can you point me to the relevant statutes that are being broken?

From my own knowledge of the statutory and constitutional legislation there does not appear to be any law being broken. Maybe you could clarify?

No. You'll have to make your own mind up. We are supposed to elect a Dáil but once elected we the voters have no more power and central government is often manipulated both here and in other democratic countries in a way that transcends the spirit of democracy.

Godge

Red Nissan wrote: »

No. You'll have to make your own mind up. We are supposed to elect a Dáil but once elected we the voters have no more power and central government is often manipulated both here and in other democratic countries in a way that transcends the spirit of democracy.

You are talking rubbish.

Red Nissan wrote: »

No, we did not.

We elect a group of people to a parliament, that is all we do.

Thereafter those individuals form a ruling body ~ technically illegal as all the TDs are part of the government ~ then the ruling body form an inner cabinet and the leader of the largest party is Taoiseach he then calls all the shots, he will have made certain deals to make this happen.

We do not elect the Taoiseach.

In local government we also elect a collective but in many of the larger ones like in Cork city we have a pack system whereby the largest parties combine to rule and 'elect' a Mayor ~ the Mayoralty is chosen and passed around so most get a chance ~ just because they agreed to this pact.

Technically this is also illegal and there is great pressure on to publically elect a Mayor, this system is coming on stream.

I do see the day where we elect the Taoiseach too, but currently we don't and the way the Dáil works, minimises democracy.

Twice you make a statement that things are technically illegal. The use of the word "illegal" directly implies that a statute or the constitution are being broken. The use of the word "technically" implies that a specific provision is being broken.

You give off an air of knowing what these are but you can't quote them when asked.

Red Nissan

Godge wrote: »

You are talking rubbish. You give off an air of knowing what these are but you can't quote them when asked.

Thanks a million.

Martin needs a lot more support like this.

For Reals

If proof were needed that the party exists only to cadge votes;

"The Government faces a fresh call today to resolve the Garth Brooks concert controversy as Fianna Fáil has published a bill to amend the planning laws."


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-urged-to-save-garth-brooks-gigs-with-planning-laws-1.1858060

Marhay70

For Reals wrote: »

If proof were needed that the party exists only to cadge votes;

It wasn't. but let's face it, none of the political parties are above this sort of thing, it's bread and butter to them.
Dooley probably has a draft of his GE literature drawn up already " The man who saved Garth Brooks". Fcuking joke politics.

raymon

Fianna Fail jumping on another bandwagon. What a surprise.

I dont know who is more sickening Garth Brooks or Fianna Fail

Red Nissan

raymon wrote: »

Fianna Fail jumping on another bandwagon. What a surprise.

I dont know who is more sickening Garth Brooks or Fianna Fail

Well, Garth Brooks will be here for only five days, Fianna Fail will be here for five years. No contest really.

MidlandsM

Red Nissan wrote: »

Well, Garth Brooks will be here for only five days, Fianna Fail will be here for five years. No contest really.

Garth Brooks and Fianna Fail - both tired out, washed up, has been cowboys, with nothing new to offer. :pac:

Marhay70

MidlandsM wrote: »

Garth Brooks and Fianna Fail - both tired out, washed up, has been cowboys, with nothing new to offer. :pac:

I bet Michael Martin would love to have 400,000 people held in rapture for several hours. The man has all the allure of dog crap on your shoe.

MidlandsM

Marhay70 wrote: »

I bet Michael Martin would love to have 400,000 people held in rapture for several hours. The man has all the allure of dog crap on your shoe.

Lol.....

Gb has been cancelled....no such luck FF isn't cancelled for good too.

For Reals

MidlandsM wrote: »

Garth Brooks and Fianna Fail - both tired out, washed up, has been cowboys, with nothing new to offer. :pac:

Yeah but for some reason they've both got die hard followers, sadly for Ireland.

raymon

There are 2 things I could never understand, why someone could buy a Garth Brooks recording or why someone would give a brown envelope to Fianna Fail .

pO1Neil

Martin Mcguinness maybe, but not that FF muppet.