the reason for holloways charlie adam outbursts...

Helix

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/3373601/Ian-Holloway-will-get-a-cut-of-any-Charlie-Adam-transfer-fee.html

IAN HOLLOWAY will receive a slice of any transfer fee for Charlie Adam.

The Blackpool boss has admitted he stands to pick up a share of any profit made on the midfielder, although he will not reveal how much.

But Holloway says he is not doing anything wrong and insists the bonus is not the reason he is demanding £12million for his star player.

Ollie said: "I do get rewarded with anybody I coach and make a profit on.

My chairman looked at my record of producing players and helping players and selling them on and he wanted that at Blackpool.

"That's not what I'm doing it for. I'm on a far bigger bonus to keep us in the Premier League and Charlie Adam can help me do that."

Blackpool have already spurned a quick profit on their captain, who cost £500,000 in August 2009, by snubbing Birmingham and Aston Villa bids.

And they rejected a £4m offer from Liverpool - a figure Holloway described as 'disgraceful'.

But Ollie rapped: "If you're saying I'm doing this because I'm getting 20-30 per cent of the Adam money I'll not be very happy - it's miles away, absolute nonsense."

There is nothing in football rules to prevent a manager having a clause in his contract granting him a percentage of the profit made on a player.

An FA spokesman confirmed: "This type of agreement does not contravene any of our rules whatsoever."

And Ollie is adamant chairman Karl Oyston has no problems with it.

Holloway added: "I bought a frustrated kid from Rangers, we bought him very wisely, and in 18 months we've gone from 16th in the Championship to 12th in the Premier League with his help."

dahat

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fred funk }{

Don't see anything wrong with him getting a slice of any profits made from selling a player that he brought into the club. He had the vision to see his potential and coached him to become the player he is today.

I've alot of respect for Holloway especially his interviews, brilliant.

Bounty Hunter

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Don't see anything wrong with him getting a slice of any profits made from selling a player that he brought into the club. He had the vision to see his potential and coached him to become the player he is today.

I've alot of respect for Holloway especially his interviews, brilliant.

In some ways id agree but I'd say Adam regrets it now and perhaps may not think his managers valuation of him is fair. As is his right Holloway will put whatever price tag he wants on his player but adam wants to leave and i havent heard anyone value Adam at more than 6m except Holloway.

Considering they messed around with him over bonus payments and he has handed in a transfer request id like to see the lad move on while he can get a mve to a top club but right now it seems Blackpool will ask for too much, keep him and hope he can lead them to avoiding relegation then either way sell him in the summer at about whats on offer now if they stay up or less if they go down as his contract will be shorter. Worth it if they stay up of course though

GuanYin

I hope Arsenal don't have that clause in Wenger's contract.... :eek:

Bounty Hunter

GuanYin wrote: »

I hope Arsenal don't have that clause in Wenger's contract.... :eek:

they do but he has to put it towards his mortgage repayments while he's moving to a bigger place, he wont be able to enjoy the money yet but just wait in a year or two he will have the new place with the big garage and will then have his money to spend on a new sports car or two to put in it.

_blank_

I'd say most managers have that tbh

RasTa

Rubbish, he is worth more then £4m or the £3.5 Villa offfered.

Helix

RasTa wrote: »

Rubbish, he is worth more then £4m or the £3.5 Villa offfered.

not a lot more though

how many premiership games has he started in his career? 19?

totally unproven, and could be found out in his second season as is often the case. for that reason, despite the fact that he does look a great player, he's a huge risk for much more than £5.5-6.5m

JimsAlterEgo

Helix wrote: »

not a lot more though

how many premiership games has he started in his career? 19?

totally unproven, and could be found out in his second season as is often the case. for that reason, despite the fact that he does look a great player, he's a huge risk for much more than £5.5-6.5m

if Darrens Bent is setting this windows benchmark, hes 10M

jaykay74

Helix wrote: »

not a lot more though

how many premiership games has he started in his career? 19?

totally unproven, and could be found out in his second season as is often the case. for that reason, despite the fact that he does look a great player, he's a huge risk for much more than £5.5-6.5m

His relative worth is that with him Blackpool have a much greater chance to play in the PL next season and that is worth a lot. Why should Blackpool reduce this chance to take 4 or 5 mil now ? It would be pretty stupid business.

redzerdrog

RasTa wrote: »

Rubbish, he is worth more then £4m or the £3.5 Villa offfered.

a player is only worth what a club is willing to pay for them. there is a reason no club is offering 10-12 million for him because he is not worth that.

i would be disappointed if liverpool spent more than 6 million on him and as i said i dont see any clubs coming in with higher offers

Necronomicon

Helix wrote: »

not a lot more though

how many premiership games has he started in his career? 19?

totally unproven, and could be found out in his second season as is often the case. for that reason, despite the fact that he does look a great player, he's a huge risk for much more than £5.5-6.5m

It's about relative values though. For a prospective buyer, £7-8 million might seem somewhat risky but given how pivitol he is to Blackpool, he is worth ten times that to them. What is the figure that's always thrown around for a season in the Premiership, 40 million or so? Blackpool are dead right not to be low-balled, because 3-4 million is paultry for what he gives them.

Sappy404

He's out of contract next summer though. He'll go for far less than £10m this summer.

If I was making a bid for Adam I'd offer a loan of two reserve players until the end of the season as part of the deal, or maybe even loan Adam back to them for that period, though Adam himself would probably not be too keen on the latter.

JimsAlterEgo

if he keeps Blackpool in the Pl hes worth more than what was offered

Neil3030

Charlie won't go this window, I reckon. He's too pivotal to Blackpool's survival.

He'll go for 3-5m in the Summer.

jaykay74

Neil3030 wrote: »

Charlie won't go this window, I reckon. He's too pivotal to Blackpool's survival.

He'll go for 3-5m in the Summer.

Which would also run contrary to the headline story which would imply that Holloway would try to maximise the price to get more for himself. If this was the case he will absolutely be sold this window.

Dolph Starbeam

RasTa wrote: »

Rubbish, he is worth more then £4m or the £3.5 Villa offfered.

Isn't his contract expiring this summer though, because of that i don't see his value being much more than the £4 million being offered. Its up to Blackpool, accept £4 mil or we'll take him for free this summer. If he still had a 2 years left on his contract then i would agree with a £12 million valuation.

From his Wikipedia ;

On 4 August 2009, Adam signed a two-year contract with Blackpool with the option of a further year, in a club-record transfer fee of £500,000

So is his contract out this summer or summer 2012?

Kiwi_knock

Contract expiring next summer despite wide spread media belief that it expires this summer. Will probably go for around 5 million in the summer. Perfectly alright for Holloway to get money off the transfer, nothing illegal about it and I am sure other managers have similar deals.

LuckyLloyd

Helix wrote: »

not a lot more though

how many premiership games has he started in his career? 19?

totally unproven, and could be found out in his second season as is often the case. for that reason, despite the fact that he does look a great player, he's a huge risk for much more than £5.5-6.5m

Nail on the head.

From Blackpool's perspective, the best value play they can make is to keep him until his contract expires. In his current form, having him is more valuable than any of the transfer fees that will be offered this window or next, and his presence could be a key factor in them staying up which is worth a lot more than £12m.

flahavaj

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Nail on the head.

From Blackpool's perspective, the best value play they can make is to keep him until his contract expires. In his current form, having him is more valuable than any of the transfer fees that will be offered this window or next, and his presence could be a key factor in them staying up which is worth a lot more than £12m.

Probably better for the player as well, with one year left on his contract in the Summer, he's in a better position to get a better contract from potential suitors.

dreamers75

Hes on 12k a week which is nothing compared to some players over there.

Blackpool get 70 million over 3 years assuming they are relagated this season, i dont know the figure if they stay up but its more than 70m.

Mad to sell him tbh, if they stay up they have bankable income for 2-4 years and can offer him more money.

RasTa

Helix wrote: »

not a lot more though

how many premiership games has he started in his career? 19?

totally unproven, and could be found out in his second season as is often the case. for that reason, despite the fact that he does look a great player, he's a huge risk for much more than £5.5-6.5m

Yeah I should have mentioned he is worth more than that to Blackpool but thought you would have realised it.

jaykay74

flahavaj wrote: »

Probably better for the player as well, with one year left on his contract in the Summer, he's in a better position to get a better contract from potential suitors.

except he is a wanted man at present, maybe his form dips or he gets injured. Better for Adam to get the move while he is hot property this window.

Leiva

Ferguson must be getting a cut aswell

Degag

God damn it, don't have this clause in my contract in Football Manager.:mad:

eagle eye

redzerdrog wrote: »

a player is only worth what a club is willing to pay for them. there is a reason no club is offering 10-12 million for him because he is not worth that.

i would be disappointed if liverpool spent more than 6 million on him and as i said i dont see any clubs coming in with higher offers

You are only looking at things from one said when you say that.

His worth to Blackpool is whats important. They are not going to sell him for less than that. I'd say he is worth somewhere around £14 million to them.

s_carnage

Holloway says in the quote above that he brought him from Rangers but during the match Tuesday night one of the commentators said it was the caretaker manager of Blackpool that signed him. So who actually brought him in??

Kiwi_knock

s_carnage wrote: »

Holloway says in the quote above that he brought him from Rangers but during the match Tuesday night one of the commentators said it was the caretaker manager of Blackpool that signed him. So who actually brought him in??

Caretaker brought him in on loan but then Holloway signed him permanently.

ricero

i hope blackpool go down being honest then liverpool could sign adam on the cheap and blackpool would have to sell to cover costs

Seaneh

ricero wrote: »

i hope blackpool go down being honest then liverpool could sign adam on the cheap and blackpool would have to sell to cover costs

Actually, they wouldn't have to sell. They have kept their wage bill at an absolute minimum this season with the idea being even if they are relegated they won't need to sell first team players.

flahavaj

jaykay74 wrote: »

except he is a wanted man at present, maybe his form dips or he gets injured. Better for Adam to get the move while he is hot property this window.

His form will hardly dip that much in a few months? He could just as easily get injured playing for a new club. Even if he got a three month injury now and stayed at Blackpool and was terrible on his return he'd still be able to command a bigger salary in the Summer as he'll have entered the last year of his contract, which swings the power further towards him.

redzerdrog

eagle eye wrote: »

You are only looking at things from one said when you say that.

His worth to Blackpool is whats important. They are not going to sell him for less than that. I'd say he is worth somewhere around £14 million to them.

yeh i see were your coming from. from blackpool point he is prob worth about 20 million to them but to a club buying him he is worth 6 maybe 7 million max

I would have prefered if holloway just came out and said he is not for sale at this point come back in the summer instead of going on and on and on and on and changing his valuation at every press conference and then when a club enquires how much they want they say were not telling you wtf

I would be disappointed if liverpool spent more than 6 mil on him tbh and if he stays with blackpool till the summer liverpool might not want him at that stage so the player himself might lose out on the move.

dahat

Although this arrangement is not against EPL rule's to me it stink's..

Blackpool paid Rangers for Adam not Holloway.
Blackpool should soley profit from any deal for Adam.

Also i think Adam looked like he wasn't top class fit the other night,like alot of blackpool players.

flahavaj

dahat wrote: »

Also i think Adam looked like he wasn't top class fit the other night,like alot of blackpool players.

I have heard Adam compared to Andy Reid by others. Maybe a little harsh, but theres still as much chance of him going that way as opposed to the other direction. Its early doors yet, he's only played a half season at the top.

dahat

flahavaj wrote: »

I have heard Adam compared to Andy Reid by others. Maybe a little harsh, but theres still as much chance of him going that way as opposed to the other direction. Its early doors yet, he's only played a half season at the top.

Will be be legless after another half season though?
A pre season at a top level club will do wonders for his fitness so it may be next season before he blooms fully at liverpool...

Helix

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

if Darrens Bent is setting this windows benchmark, hes 10M

5 1/2 years of consistently scoring goals at the top level in england for £18m or a 26 year old who has started about 19 premiership games for £10m?

youre having us on surely

Helix

jaykay74 wrote: »

His relative worth is that with him Blackpool have a much greater chance to play in the PL next season and that is worth a lot. Why should Blackpool reduce this chance to take 4 or 5 mil now ? It would be pretty stupid business.

who said they should? theyre entitled to look for however much they want for a player they own

x in the city

peanut was sold for erm, peanuts to spurs (we know he was out of contract, but still...), adam is a good player but not worth 10million+

but paying inflated fees are not exactly a new thing in the english game...:rolleyes:

Paully D

Will the man who actually brought Adam to Blackpool (Tony Parkes) receive any money at all?

Holloway seems to be painting himself as some sort of amazing manager plucking an average Charlie Adam from Rangers and transforming him into a decent Premier League player, when in reality, Adam was already at the club when Holloway was appointed.

Ordinary man

I can't see how a player who's been one of the most consistant players this season and held his own against the best is only rated at 5 million. Compare other players against him and value them - henderson, lucas, barry, song, palacious - none of them can pass and control a game as well. Would their clubs accept 3m for them?

Neil3030

dahat wrote: »

Although this arrangement is not against EPL rule's to me it stink's..

Blackpool paid Rangers for Adam not Holloway.
Blackpool should soley profit from any deal for Adam.

Also i think Adam looked like he wasn't top class fit the other night,like alot of blackpool players.

Blackpool are free to incentivise their managers to source young cost effective talent and develop these players by offering them a cut of the sell on fee/profit.

Paully D

Ordinary man wrote: »

I can't see how a player who's been one of the most consistant players this season and held his own against the best is only rated at 5 million. Compare other players against him and value them - henderson, lucas, barry, song, palacious - none of them can pass and control a game as well. Would their clubs accept 3m for them?

4 of the players you have listed are different to Charlie Adam in their style of play and impossible to compare.

The only player you could compare him to in that list would be Jordan Henderson IMO. Henderson's a 20 year old senior England international who's getting better and better every week, has been praised to the hilt by managers such as Ferguson, Mancini and Capello. Charlie Adam has had a little over half a good season in the Premier League and when he was Henderson's age he was playing at the dizzy heights of Ross County and St Mirren.

I know who I'd rather have and who I'd value more.

As for £3m, the transfer market works in such a way that a players worth is what another club are willing to pay to acquire his services, if not then he stays. If I was asked for my own valuation on Adam I'd say that any club paying over £5m are taking a big risk, especially when you consider Blackpool have built there team around him, try to get the ball to him as much as possible (Adam even drops deep so the keeper can roll the ball out to him) and he wouldn't be afforded that luxury at the likes of Liverpool, Villa etc.

Adam's a decent player but IMO he's being massively overrated.

iMuse

Dont think he will leave blackpool until the summer

Hope Wenger got a cut out of selling some of the players he has brought through

eagle eye

Paully D wrote: »

4 of the players you have listed are different to Charlie Adam in their style of play and impossible to compare.

The only player you could compare him to in that list would be Jordan Henderson IMO. Henderson's a 20 year old senior England international who's getting better and better every week, has been praised to the hilt by managers such as Ferguson, Mancini and Capello. Charlie Adam has had a little over half a good season in the Premier League and when he was Henderson's age he was playing at the dizzy heights of Ross County and St Mirren.

I know who I'd rather have and who I'd value more.

Oh let me guess, the Sunderland player but of course you support them and there is bias on your part in fairness. Personally I like Henderson and he looks like he has a big future. It doesn't matter where Charlie Adam was when he was 20, its all about the here and now. Did you know he was a winger up until Holloway got his hands on him?
Gareth Barry is the closest to Charlie Adam off that list. Also the poster is comparing how much has been spent on midfielders and not necessarily similar types and he has a valid point.

Paully D wrote: »

As for £3m, the transfer market works in such a way that a players worth is what another club are willing to pay to acquire his services, if not then he stays. If I was asked for my own valuation on Adam I'd say that any club paying over £5m are taking a big risk, especially when you consider Blackpool have built there team around him, try to get the ball to him as much as possible (Adam even drops deep so the keeper can roll the ball out to him) and he wouldn't be afforded that luxury at the likes of Liverpool, Villa etc.

Adam's a decent player but IMO he's being massively overrated.

And a player's worth is not valued by what another club are willing to pay for him. Its the selling club that decides how much they will sell him for. In my estimation he is worth £14 million. Blackpool want to stay in the Premier League, if they lose Adam that becomes a lot more difficult. He is reported to be on 12k a week. Who are they going to get on wages like that to replace him?
When you consider the risk of relegation and the money they lose out on if they go down compared to if they stay up, the risk of a new signing not working out, the loss of their set piece taker, their captain and their best player, he is worth a hell of a lot more than what is currently being offered.

From reading what people have been saying about Adam and his value over the last while, its very clear that he is still massively underrated.

A Dub in Glasgo

Rangers will get 10% of his sale fee so I hope he stays and goes on a Bosman

invinciblePRSTV

eagle eye wrote: »

From reading what people have been saying about Adam and his value over the last while, its very clear that he is still massively underrated.

Nah you can't say this definitively. The guy has had a half a season in a team built around him in the top flight after faffing about in minor leagues for the whole of his career. For a 26 year old a club would need more to go on if they're to spunk £10m on him. Even shiite like Sidwell had great seasons in newly promoted teams before revealing his true mediocre self, i can only see Adam going the same way.

With all this in mind i hope Liverpool sign him for £12m.

Paully D

eagle eye wrote: »

Oh let me guess, the Sunderland player but of course you support them and there is bias on your part in fairness. Personally I like Henderson and he looks like he has a big future. It doesn't matter where Charlie Adam was when he was 20, its all about the here and now. Did you know he was a winger up until Holloway got his hands on him?
Gareth Barry is the closest to Charlie Adam off that list. Also the poster is comparing how much has been spent on midfielders and not necessarily similar types and he has a valid point.

And a player's worth is not valued by what another club are willing to pay for him. Its the selling club that decides how much they will sell him for. In my estimation he is worth £14 million. Blackpool want to stay in the Premier League, if they lose Adam that becomes a lot more difficult. He is reported to be on 12k a week. Who are they going to get on wages like that to replace him?
When you consider the risk of relegation and the money they lose out on if they go down compared to if they stay up, the risk of a new signing not working out, the loss of their set piece taker, their captain and their best player, he is worth a hell of a lot more than what is currently being offered.

From reading what people have been saying about Adam and his value over the last while, its very clear that he is still massively underrated.

You could argue that there is bias on my part, but when you see two of the worlds greatest club managers in Ferguson and Capello raving about him, along with another manager who's side are challenging from the Premier League title, you'd see that it's a truthful assessment and not one built on bias.

Henderson was also a winger until Steve Bruce got his hands on him, so I can't see what your point is there?

£14m? I'm glad your not the manager of or in charge of my clubs finances. It's scary what figures people will come up with for players such as Adam these days and it's no wonder so many clubs have gone into administration in recent seasons. As I said, if clubs aren't willing to pay more than they think he's worth, then Adam stays at Blackpool. It's hardly rocket science in fairness.

This is how I feel the whole thing will pan out anyway:

Adam stays at Blackpool this season and they stay up. He leaves in the summer for about £3m, and becomes a rotation player at Liverpool, Villa etc, whilst Blackpool go down at a canter next season to become the next Sheffield United etc.

There's shades of Hull City and Geovanni in 2008/2009 about Blackpool and Adam IMO.

eagle eye

You are not getting it. His valuation to Blackpool decides what he is worth and I'm saying his worth to Blackpool makes his valuation right now £14 million.

Come the summer and if they have remained in the Premier League then all that changes. They get £46 million for staying in the Premier League.

And every manager that plays against Charlie Adam is raving about him including Alex Ferguson the other night.

yahoo_moe

eagle eye wrote: »

You are not getting it. His valuation to Blackpool decides what he is worth

Not quite. Yes, his worth to Blackpool and the price they'd need to sell him is decided by their situation but his worth to Liverpool or anyone else is significantly lower.

So you can't just say that his worth to Blackpool decides his value - it decides his selling price, which is very different. He doesn't have one single 'value'. He's not worth any one amount. It depends completely on the two clubs involved. His value to Rangers 18 months ago was only £500,000.

As an aside, it looks as though keeping him will keep Blackpool up so from that point of view, £14m is probably conservative. Unless they think his attitude/effort is going to drop, there's no way anyone will offer enough for it to make sense for Blackpool to sell.

dahat

Neil3030 wrote: »

Blackpool are free to incentivise their managers to source young cost effective talent and develop these players by offering them a cut of the sell on fee/profit.

Yes i can see how this would work but when IH is actively trying to get much more than Liverpool have offered it just brings into question the rights and wrongs of it.
Getting the best deal for his club is admirable but getting the best deal for himself as well i dont like..
As stated it is not against any rules but i still dont like the arrangement