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AA wasn't for me either. I did go to meetings for about 18 months but it was an awful chore and they really weren't helping me. AA is not the only way and I think its wrong of some professionals to say that it is.
I couldn't have given up alcohol through willpower alone. It just doesn't work...They say that giving up is 10% putting down the drink and 90% change, and I totally agree with that. I had to make a lot of changes in my life and I feel that if I hadn't that I would have turned to the drink again. Truely accepting that I could never drink without negative repercussions was also key.0 -
AA wasn't for me either. I did go to meetings for about 18 months but it was an awful chore and they really weren't helping me. AA is not the only way and I think its wrong of some professionals to say that it is.
I couldn't have given up alcohol through willpower alone. It just doesn't work...They say that giving up is 10% putting down the drink and 90% change, and I totally agree with that. I had to make a lot of changes in my life and I feel that if I hadn't that I would have turned to the drink again. Truely accepting that I could never drink without negative repercussions was also key.
That's absolutely fantastic, lindtee.
Fair play. You'd never have gotten the family Disneyworld the drink!0 -
After attending meeting after meeting, I just could not logically in my head stick another label on myself, I go overboard and don't drink resonsibly but I am not going to label myself an alcoholic. I have come to the realisation that by labeling yourself like that will only control you more. We all have choices, one of mine is not to drink. Its great that some people get comfort and solace in AA but I never got that. Some meetings were worse than others but I really couldn't identify with half the stuff the members were saying.
Well enoughalready, your post today is very different from those you've posted earlier in the thread. Which is fine btw, but fact nonetheless.
Anyways: I wish you all the best on your path, (really!), and the good news is AA remains there, for fun and for free in case you need us again down the road, lol0 -
AA wasn't for me either. I did go to meetings for about 18 months but it was an awful chore and they really weren't helping me.
Am I to understand you went for your first 18 months of sobriety ?
If so, it appears AA helped a great deal.
I am cool with people drifting away after they get some time, it's of course everyone's choice to stay active or not in the long run, but to attend for that long and then in the same breath say it didn't help seems a bit .....disingenuous.0 -
In response to Amazingfun:
I could identify with the issues around how our drinking can become promblematic at times and how the depression kicks in after a binge but what I couldn't identify with was the agressive stages of alcoholism - as in group members that have been to prison, psychiatric hospitals, lost all their family and friends, crashed their cars, cheated on their spouses, lost their jobs, became very physically ill etc...it seemed they were very advanced in their disease whereas I felt out of my depth, I of course had empathy and wept with them as they spoke but for me I just came to the realisation that okay my drinking had become a burden on my life and I wanted so much more from life than hangovers and down days but for me to say I am an alcoholic because of that would be a tad naieve.
I suppose my thought process around this whole issue has been evolving over the past year and you can defo get swept into the rush of AA and let them 'nurture you' and always stay in that victim and powerless role of the opressed. It just didn't reflect my situation but can respect it works for those who believe and need it.
I hope I don't come accross condesending or rude but as I said before its just all new to me and I'm just trying to figure out what my understanding is of addiction etc...0 -
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enoughalready wrote: »In response to Amazingfun:
I could identify with the issues around how our drinking can become promblematic at times and how the depression kicks in after a binge but what I couldn't identify with was the agressive stages of alcoholism - as in group members that have been to prison, psychiatric hospitals, lost all their family and friends, crashed their cars, cheated on their spouses, lost their jobs, became very physically ill etc...it seemed they were very advanced in their disease whereas I felt out of my depth, I of course had empathy and wept with them as they spoke but for me I just came to the realisation that okay my drinking had become a burden on my life and I wanted so much more from life than hangovers and down days but for me to say I am an alcoholic because of that would be a tad naieve.
I suppose my thought process around this whole issue has been evolving over the past year and you can defo get swept into the rush of AA and let them 'nurture you' and always stay in that victim and powerless role of the opressed. It just didn't reflect my situation but can respect it works for those who believe and need it.
I hope I don't come accross condesending or rude but as I said before its just all new to me and I'm just trying to figure out what my understanding is of addiction etc...
More variety of meeting and members , most of us have just ordinary everday stories , nothing dramatic at all .0 -
enoughalready wrote: »In response to Amazingfun:
I could identify with the issues around how our drinking can become promblematic at times and how the depression kicks in after a binge but what I couldn't identify with was the agressive stages of alcoholism - as in group members that have been to prison, psychiatric hospitals, lost all their family and friends, crashed their cars, cheated on their spouses, lost their jobs, became very physically ill etc...it seemed they were very advanced in their disease whereas I felt out of my depth, I of course had empathy and wept with them as they spoke but for me I just came to the realisation that okay my drinking had become a burden on my life and I wanted so much more from life than hangovers and down days but for me to say I am an alcoholic because of that would be a tad naieve.
I suppose my thought process around this whole issue has been evolving over the past year and you can defo get swept into the rush of AA and let them 'nurture you' and always stay in that victim and powerless role of the opressed. It just didn't reflect my situation but can respect it works for those who believe and need it.
I hope I don't come accross condesending or rude but as I said before its just all new to me and I'm just trying to figure out what my understanding is of addiction etc...
I guess I am genuinely curious as to why you went to AA in the first place? Why didn't you just stop and do your own thing in the first place?
And don't misunderstand my reminding you of your past posts. I do it for the readers too, especially those real alcoholics (like me) who might be tempted to think they can just wish and willpower away their drinking. For unlike you,apparently, many of us have indeed been to hospitals, prisons and suffered a wide range of repercussions directly related to our drinking.
It is life and death for us.
Note: I have never "wept" at a meeting, lol, and rarely see others do so unless they are very new and feelin raw. As for this:you can defo get swept into the rush of AA and let them 'nurture you' and always stay in that victim and powerless role of the opressed.
:pac: I was a only a "victim" of my deep devotion to tossing copious amounts of alcohol down my throat on a regular basis. As for "oppressed" I can only marvel at how differently we must experience AA lol as I don't know too many who fit that particular label.
Finally, a reminder: I am sober just under 13 years. And not to be too blunt but whether or not you (or anyone else here for that matter) stays in AA or even stays sober at all doesn't affect me. I am just on here to help those who want a way out of the slavery of the bottle and all I try to do is set out a realistic vision of the hope AA offers for those who find they simply cannot stop drinking despite their best efforts and use of 'willpower' to do so. AA ought to be the 'last house on the block' in my opinion, i.e. the place that's there for those for whom all other attempts at escape have failed.
Anyhow enough with the long rants from me, and again good luck on your journey0 -
I suppose I went in the first place as I like to keep an open mind. At the time I felt it was the only way. I kinda thought well if you're an alcoholic you must go to AA. So I went. I do appreciate how important it is for some people. I guess, it really is individualistic - it depends on the person.
I have always found your posts helpful Amazingfun and still do. I just have a personal issue with the labeling side of things and always will do, whether that is stigma or the sterotypes we are influenced by the media etc...
I don't want to drink alcohol. I choose not to. Those statements empower me. They make me feel like I have a choice. I am not enslaved into the NEVERS AND CAN'TS side of things. I read all sorts of books, to continue to learn about alcohol and I will probably even have a different opinion this time next year but just want to use this forum as an open, honest and frank account of what I'm feeling and maybe help others who feel the same and don't feel AA is the only option for redemption.0 -
I think best thing with meetings is take and leave what you want.
Even going and not buying in fully is better than nothing.0 -
Carpet diem wrote: »I think best thing with meetings is take and leave what you want.
Even going and not buying in fully is better than nothing.
Yes I am going to "go there"
"Half measures availed us nothing"
http://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/en_bigbook_chapt5.pdf
Think there are no "musts" in AA? Think again....
http://www.barefootsworld.net/aa103musts.html0 -
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Hi all I'm not going to tell anybody what does and what does not work. I will tell you that In the end, it's you and only you who can "recover" from alcoholism/problem/abusive drinking,
We all need help, but it still comes down to ourselves. We seek help and when we get what helps us along, we continue to "use" that help.
I wouldn't trade anything that I've learned here or on other forums or with other recovering people,nor would I trade anything I've learned in AA. I use both to help me, and try not to be too critical of anyone who is trying to do their best at anything! whatever works for you in terms of setting a AF goal that helps you stick to it is the right way to go. So good luck to us all in any which way you can stop :-)0 -
Amazingfun wrote: »Am I to understand you went for your first 18 months of sobriety ?
If so, it appears AA helped a great deal.
I am cool with people drifting away after they get some time, it's of course everyone's choice to stay active or not in the long run, but to attend for that long and then in the same breath say it didn't help seems a bit .....disingenuous.
Yes, I did go for 18 months, but I have to say it was under duress...I am coming up to 8 years sober. I accept that it probably did help me in the begining (even though I hated going) and I also have to admit that the 12 steps and a lot of the AA "wisdom" and literature have helped me on my journey, (much more so than sitting in meeting rooms). And the serenity prayer has been invaluable to me over the years. I am not religious in anyway but I think says it all (particulary the first 4 lines). I still believe that AA is not for everyone but I also understand that it works for many.
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
Taking, as He did, this sinful world
as it is, not as I would have it;
Trusting that He will make all things right
if I surrender to His Will;
That I may be reasonably happy in this life
and supremely happy with Him
Forever in the next.
Amen.[/FONT]0 -
Yes, I did go for 18 months, but I have to say it was under duress...I am coming up to 8 years sober. I accept that it probably did help me in the begining (even though I hated going) and I also have to admit that the 12 steps and a lot of the AA "wisdom" and literature have helped me on my journey, (much more so than sitting in meeting rooms). And the serenity prayer has been invaluable to me over the years. I am not religious in anyway but I think says it all (particulary the first 4 lines). I still believe that AA is not for everyone but I also understand that it works for many.
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
Taking, as He did, this sinful world
as it is, not as I would have it;
Trusting that He will make all things right
if I surrender to His Will;
That I may be reasonably happy in this life
and supremely happy with Him
Forever in the next.
Amen.[/FONT]
Fair play, Linda0 -
auldgranny wrote: »Very true. And people are so taken aback if you don't drink as if there is something wrong with you.It is true what they say though isn't it? It is difficult to avoid alcohol in Ireland when so much of our social lives involve drinking
True alright. Was at a work night out last night. Apart from trying to justify not drinking alcohol, also felt that I lost some respect from a couple of people for not doing so.
Felt great being down in gym this morning while same people where in the bed suffering from hangovers.0 -
True alright. Was at a work night out last night. Apart from trying to justify not drinking alcohol, also felt that I lost some respect from a couple of people for not doing so.
Felt great being down in gym this morning while same people where in the bed suffering from hangovers.
Seriously if people lose respect for you because your not drinking that says more about them than you, Who needs that type around them.0 -
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I often read that people tried AA but it didnt do anything for them, and I wonder did they really try AA? Because just attending meetings for a while is not trying AA, AA is getting a sponsor and working through the 12 steps as outlined in the big book, thats the program of Alcoholics Anonymous and thats when the growth occurs. I spent 2 years at the beginning just attending meetings and nothing really changed, I didnt drink, but there was no real growth. In contrast working the steps has been a phenomenal experience.0
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I'm off it seven months.
No AA, no nothing. Just willpower.
I can easily go into a pub and not have a drink.
All I need to do is think about all the retarded things I've said and done on the drink.0 -
Cyber Ghost wrote: »I'm off it seven months.
No AA, no nothing. Just willpower.
I can easily go into a pub and not have a drink.
All I need to do is think about all the retarded things I've said and done on the drink.
Well done that's great, but everyone is different in how they can fight this and obvisouly a lot find it harder than others and need that extra help.0 -
Hi, do you mind me asking how this experience has been phenomenal for you? I'm genuinely curious. I've attending a few meetings over the past week or so & I've heard a number of people say that they regretted waiting so long to get a sponsor & that they only went to mtgs even though they didn't drink etc. Thank you. No problem if it's private etcjimmyRotator wrote: »I often read that people tried AA but it didnt do anything for them, and I wonder did they really try AA? Because just attending meetings for a while is not trying AA, AA is getting a sponsor and working through the 12 steps as outlined in the big book, thats the program of Alcoholics Anonymous and thats when the growth occurs. I spent 2 years at the beginning just attending meetings and nothing really changed, I didnt drink, but there was no real growth. In contrast working the steps has been a phenomenal experience.0
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Cyber Ghost wrote: »I'm off it seven months.
No AA, no nothing. Just willpower.
I can easily go into a pub and not have a drink.
All I need to do is think about all the retarded things I've said and done on the drink.
AA's describes "an alcoholic of our type" as having the following two traits:
1. Showing signs of an "allergy" of the body involving alcohol which essentially translates to "I take the drink and the drink takes me". An inability to control the amount taken once ingested.
2. An obsession of the mind. Meaning that the reoccurring insane idea that I can safely take a drink and enjoy it as I see others do-despite my incredible and long history of failing to do just that. And that deadly obsession can (and does) occur to real alcoholics all the time -even people that have been off it years.
It's where the phrase "cunning baffling and powerful" can really be seen in its fully glory (in my opinion).
My point is that if you don't identify with these two traits than why would you go to AA anyways? If anyone can stop on their own and remember their last drinking horror story with no problems-then good for them! AA is filled with folks who cannot seem to recall the most traumatic of drinking experiences when we need to most. It's a truly strange affliction in that regardThe Big Book calls it a "peculiar mental twist" in another spot. And I surely have it lol.
The mental obsession is described in great detail here for anyone interested:
http://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/en_bigbook_chapt3.pdf0 -
Well what a week its been. Talk about a rollercoaster of thought processes! From rebelling against labeling myself an alcoholic but at the same time acknowledging I am a problem drinker to having sudden urges to drink! This week has seen it all! I was talking through my situation with some close friends as I wanted to get their perspective and I suppose they know me best. I was saying that my 1 year sobriety date is coming up in a few weeks and that after that, who knows what'll happen? I mean I'll have reached a milestone and it a weird way I was trying to justify that after the year is up, I'll be able to go back to my old drinking ways.
I realise how absurd that sounds but hear me out. I was thinking it wouldn't be a slip if I have planned it out before hand. Say I will have a few drinks on the 4th of December, what harm??? I was trying to justify it and my brain was going into overdrive, I had a surge of both positive and negative thoughts about the whole thing. Something intrinsic inside was telling me don't waste your time going backwards but on the other hand there was this very strong magnetic pull towards the dark side. I have to admit though for reflective purposes, the dark side seemed alluring and sexy! As in anything is possible and the thrill of getting giddy and tipsy was very powerful!
I was scared at my thought processes in one respect and on the other hand, I was saying to myself, stop being one of life's victims / prisoners. Okay I may go through the next 40 years with a drinking problem and I may get into spots of bother but maybe thats just part of life, accept it along with the good stuff that comes from it too?
I am a walking contradiction at present so please bare with me but I'm glad to say I did not reach for a bottle / can / pint / bar stool and I am still sober.
Defo going to give Allen Carr's book another read and get me back on track. I really do worry about myself esp after I reach my 1 year anniversary date!0 -
enoughalready wrote: »Well what a week its been. Talk about a rollercoaster of thought processes! From rebelling against labeling myself an alcoholic but at the same time acknowledging I am a problem drinker to having sudden urges to drink! This week has seen it all! I was talking through my situation with some close friends as I wanted to get their perspective and I suppose they know me best. I was saying that my 1 year sobriety date is coming up in a few weeks and that after that, who knows what'll happen? I mean I'll have reached a milestone and it a weird way I was trying to justify that after the year is up, I'll be able to go back to my old drinking ways.
I realise how absurd that sounds but hear me out. I was thinking it wouldn't be a slip if I have planned it out before hand. Say I will have a few drinks on the 4th of December, what harm??? I was trying to justify it and my brain was going into overdrive, I had a surge of both positive and negative thoughts about the whole thing. Something intrinsic inside was telling me don't waste your time going backwards but on the other hand there was this very strong magnetic pull towards the dark side. I have to admit though for reflective purposes, the dark side seemed alluring and sexy! As in anything is possible and the thrill of getting giddy and tipsy was very powerful!
I was scared at my thought processes in one respect and on the other hand, I was saying to myself, stop being one of life's victims / prisoners. Okay I may go through the next 40 years with a drinking problem and I may get into spots of bother but maybe thats just part of life, accept it along with the good stuff that comes from it too?
I am a walking contradiction at present so please bare with me but I'm glad to say I did not reach for a bottle / can / pint / bar stool and I am still sober.
Defo going to give Allen Carr's book another read and get me back on track. I really do worry about myself esp after I reach my 1 year anniversary date!
Well each to their own I suppose. My experience, you will get away with it for the first while, but then the drink will very quickly drag you back to where you were before you gave it up.
Okay I may go through the next 40 years with a drinking problem and I may get into spots of bother but maybe thats just part of life, accept it along with the good stuff that comes from it too?
Maybe thats where to start looking. If it wasn't so bad and there was good stuff that outweighed them then why did you quit?0 -
enoughalready wrote: »Well what a week its been. Talk about a rollercoaster of thought processes! From rebelling against labeling myself an alcoholic but at the same time acknowledging I am a problem drinker to having sudden urges to drink! This week has seen it all! I was talking through my situation with some close friends as I wanted to get their perspective and I suppose they know me best. I was saying that my 1 year sobriety date is coming up in a few weeks and that after that, who knows what'll happen? I mean I'll have reached a milestone and it a weird way I was trying to justify that after the year is up, I'll be able to go back to my old drinking ways.
I realise how absurd that sounds but hear me out. I was thinking it wouldn't be a slip if I have planned it out before hand. Say I will have a few drinks on the 4th of December, what harm??? I was trying to justify it and my brain was going into overdrive, I had a surge of both positive and negative thoughts about the whole thing. Something intrinsic inside was telling me don't waste your time going backwards but on the other hand there was this very strong magnetic pull towards the dark side. I have to admit though for reflective purposes, the dark side seemed alluring and sexy! As in anything is possible and the thrill of getting giddy and tipsy was very powerful!
I was scared at my thought processes in one respect and on the other hand, I was saying to myself, stop being one of life's victims / prisoners. Okay I may go through the next 40 years with a drinking problem and I may get into spots of bother but maybe thats just part of life, accept it along with the good stuff that comes from it too?
I am a walking contradiction at present so please bare with me but I'm glad to say I did not reach for a bottle / can / pint / bar stool and I am still sober.
Defo going to give Allen Carr's book another read and get me back on track. I really do worry about myself esp after I reach my 1 year anniversary date!
Everyone comes to this crossroads. If you can get over this and not drink it will stand to you. There is a reason you made all this effort to give up drinking. I can only imagine the positives you've experienced since giving it up so always remember them.0 -
enoughalready wrote: »Well what a week its been. Talk about a rollercoaster of thought processes! From rebelling against labeling myself an alcoholic but at the same time acknowledging I am a problem drinker to having sudden urges to drink! This week has seen it Allen! I was talking through my situation with some close friends as I wanted to get their perspective and I suppose they know me best. I was saying that my 1 year sobriety date is coming up in a few weeks and that after that, who knows what'll happen? I mean I'll have reached a milestone and it a weird way I was trying to justify that after the year is up, I'll be able to go back to my old drinking ways.
I realise how absurd that sounds but hear me out. I was thinking it wouldn't be a slip if I have planned it out before hand. Say I will have a few drinks on the 4th of December, what harm??? I was trying to justify it and my brain was going into overdrive, I had a surge of both positive and negative thoughts about the whole thing. Something intrinsic inside was telling me don't waste your time going backwards but on the other hand there was this very strong magnetic pull towards the dark side. I have to admit though for reflective purposes, the dark side seemed alluring and sexy! As in anything is possible and the thrill of getting giddy and tipsy was very powerful!
I was scared at my thought processes in one respect and on the other hand, I was saying to myself, stop being one of life's victims / prisoners. Okay I may go through the next 40 years with a drinking problem and I may get into spots of bother but maybe thats just part of life, accept it along with the good stuff that comes from it too?
I am a walking contradiction at present so please bare with me but I'm glad to say I did not reach for a bottle / can / pint / bar stool and I am still sober.
Defo going to give Allen Carr's book another read and get me back on track. I really do worry about myself esp after I reach my 1 year anniversary date!
Get yourself doing a new activity to focus on . Sometimes mundane ordinary day life can become boring so doing something new might prevent you getting them thoughts and keep you occupied0 -
enoughalready wrote: »I realise how absurd that sounds but hear me out. I was thinking it wouldn't be a slip if I have planned it out before hand...
Realies wrote about this some time back, how when we're not working on our sobriety we are planning on breaking it and using all sorts of excuses to justify it. If you do this, it's likely that the drink will not, in fact, be as enjoyable as you have worked yourself up to imagining it. Additionally, the guilt and crushed self-esteem, the sense of failure, will just consume you. It's awful, truly awful. We all know where this will end, if we persist in being brutally honest about it. Your immediate choice is between 1) deluding yourself about that ending (and why you had to give up alcohol) and 2) being honest with yourself about that ending (and why you had to give up alcohol). Your choice here will decide your fate.
As Carpet Diem said, you need a new activity, a new project. Feck off with yourself and walk the Wicklow Way from Marley Park in Rathfarnham to Clonegal in Carlow and feel life (4 days). Walk anywhere. Run anywhere. Get that oxygen into your brain and feel life, value life, your only life. Live. You can do this: you know you can. You know life is better without that enslavement. You know it will be much more productive and that you will develop deeper, more meaningful human relationships without alcohol. It is a lovely autumn afternoon today. Get out, walk, look at the colours all around you. Take deep breaths. Listen to the birds. Feel it all. Live.0 -
Thank you so much guys! Feeling stronger today and have no desire to drink. Heading out later for a sober book launch and chinese takeaway after! Small little things like that are what I should be grateful for and stop chasing the illusion that alcohol is. Pretty damn hard at times but will be worth it in the end.
Anamcheasta - thanks a million - what a brilliant, thought provoking response, thanks for taking the time to write it, hope your sober journey is going swimmingly (",)0 -
This day 2 weeks ago was when I last time I drank alcohol. It's been a real roller coaster over the past 14 days. I'm back eating & sleeping better... Trying to look after the basics first. Still super anxious but crying less! I had tickets to a gig tonight & was due to head to a party, with staying overnight after as it's in a different county. I cancelled though. Would have been a party hard job. I'm at home now though & kind of at a loss for plans. It's not easy. I think I'll head to a meeting instead! It's early days & I do know I need to create new activities/opportunities in the absence of drink. Thanks to all who contribute to these threads0
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Abcxyz12345 wrote: »This day 2 weeks ago was when I last time I drank alcohol. It's been a real roller coaster over the past 14 days. I'm back eating & sleeping better... Trying to look after the basics first. Still super anxious but crying less! I had tickets to a gig tonight & was due to head to a party, with staying overnight after as it's in a different county. I cancelled though. Would have been a party hard job. I'm at home now though & kind of at a loss for plans. It's not easy. I think I'll head to a meeting instead! It's early days & I do know I need to create new activities/opportunities in the absence of drink. Thanks to all who contribute to these threads
Well done. You be glad tomorrow morning when you wake up in the comfort of your own home and the day ahead of you to chill or do something nice!0 -
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Abcxyz12345 wrote: »This day 2 weeks ago was when I last time I drank alcohol. It's been a real roller coaster over the past 14 days. I'm back eating & sleeping better... Trying to look after the basics first. Still super anxious but crying less! I had tickets to a gig tonight & was due to head to a party, with staying overnight after as it's in a different county. I cancelled though. Would have been a party hard job. I'm at home now though & kind of at a loss for plans. It's not easy. I think I'll head to a meeting instead! It's early days & I do know I need to create new activities/opportunities in the absence of drink. Thanks to all who contribute to these threads
Hang in there and keep banging those in meetings , I know it doesn't seem like it now but stay away from drink and things have a way of coming round .0
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