Enda Kenny wants 5 way election debate

flash1080

cancercowboy wrote: »

Says you. He is not afraid of going "head to head" with anyone. He goes "head to head" every day he speaks in the Dáil. The fact is Sinn Féin are more of an oponent than Fianna Fáil are.

Says me and a lot of people. Most people think Enda has gone to ground, he's staying out of the spotlight, it's not what people expect or want to see from a man who could become the leader of our country. The other two would wipe the floor with him in a 3-way debate, but there's far less focus on him in a 5-way.

cancercowboy

Biggins wrote: »

I respect the forum I'm in. Its not an "After Hours" lighter tone section so I don't wish to sidetrack the thread topic nor annoy the mods.
I hope you can respect that too.

Sorry, the topic is about Enda Kenny so it's relevant. I should know, being as I started it and all. Sounds like waffle to me

opinion guy

All this talk of 3-ways and 5ways is making me blush....:o

Hmmm and after I ahd written Kenny off as a gombeen he comes out and says something very sensible like this......I'm conflicted to be honest.

Very interesting the press spin on this. I hope whoever wins the election instigates some reform in Donnybrook

Biggins

cancercowboy wrote: »

Sorry, the topic is about Enda Kenny so it's relevant. I should know, being as I started it and all. Sounds like waffle to me

This is dragging the debate topic off course.
We could start debating Enda's qualities in a tit for tat never ending round of debate - but THIS current thread is directly about THE DEBATES.
That topic (Enda qualities) has been approached many a time previously and I'm sure will be again - but at least I hope in a separate dedicated thread.
If you can't find one, I'm sure one more new one might be welcomed.

Its not for me to drag a thread off topic and right now by your insisting we just arrow in on the topic of Enda's qualities, I'm aiding and abetting that mis-direction - so I'm shutting up about that OTHER issue, in this particular thread.

(LOL - Just noticed, you got my 19,000 post!)

cancercowboy

flash1080 wrote: »

Says me and a lot of people. Most people think Enda has gone to ground, he's staying out of the spotlight, it's not what people expect or want to see from a man who could become the leader of our country. The other two would wipe the floor with him in a 3-way debate, but there's far less focus on him in a 5-way.

Says you and RTÉ. Try a bit of independent thought once and a while. Like I said before he has plenty of reasons for not engaging with RTÉ. He is in the Dail everyday. He's on FineGaelMedia's site on youtube. He's making public statements nearly everyday if you don't pay attention, that's not his fault.

As far as a 5 way debate goes, you don't know that there will be less focus on him whatsoever. The debate could run for 2 or more hours feasbily everyone would get plenty of camera time.

Maybe the real story here is that Micheál Martin is too chicken **** to be in the same room, on TV, with Enda Kenny, Eamon Gilmore and Gerry Adams?

darragh16

Why don't they have a six-way debate then?

flash1080

cancercowboy wrote: »

Says you and RTÉ. Try a bit of independent thought once and a while. Like I said before he has plenty of reasons for not engaging with RTÉ. He is in the Dail everyday. He's on FineGaelMedia's site on youtube. He's making public statements nearly everyday if you don't pay attention, that's not his fault.

As far as a 5 way debate goes, you don't know that there will be less focus on him whatsoever. The debate could run for 2 or more hours feasbily everyone would get plenty of camera time.

Maybe the real story here is that Micheál Martin is too chicken **** to be in the same room, on TV, with Enda Kenny, Eamon Gilmore and Gerry Adams?

Says me and a lot of people who think independently. :rolleyes:

Other politicians are in the Dáil every day, and they manage to have far better public profiles than Enda.

How many prospective voters will search for Fine Gaels youtube page compared to watching the news on tv, or reading the newspaper, or reading the news online? Enda and FG must be completely stupid if they think having a youtube page is enough.

Of course there will be less focus on him in a five way debate. 5 > 3, more distractions and less time on Enda.

Martin has called Enda out for the 3-way debate, so he's obviously not afraid of being in the same room as him. :rolleyes:

cancercowboy

darragh16 wrote: »

Why don't they have a six-way debate then?

Speaking in Dublin, Deputy Kenny said he will not exclude political leaders from any televised election debate.

So if the ULA have a leader put him forward.

cancercowboy

flash1080 wrote: »

Says me and a lot of people who think independently. :rolleyes:

Other politicians are in the Dáil every day, and they manage to have far better public profiles than Enda.

How many prospective voters will search for Fine Gaels youtube page compared to watching the news on tv, or reading the newspaper, or reading the news online? Enda and FG must be completely stupid if they think having a youtube page is enough.

Of course there will be less focus on him in a five way debate. 5 > 3, more distractions and less time on Enda.

Martin has called Enda out for the 3-way debate, so he's obviously not afraid of being in the same room as him. :rolleyes:

But he is afraid of being in the same room as Gerry Adams in addition.

You're a broken record to be honest. He makes a statment today and you say "where is he".

Manach

In the interests of compromise and to appeal to to-day's youth, I propose a 5-way deathmatch.

flash1080

cancercowboy wrote: »

But he is afraid of being in the same room as Gerry Adams in addition.

You're a broken record to be honest. He makes a statment today and you say "where is he".

Is he really? Most people consider Martin/Gilmore/Kenny, FF/Lab/FG, to be the main contenders so a 3-way debate makes sense.

You don't agree with my valid points so you call me a broken record, good stuff.

cancercowboy

Looks like Micheál Martin is scared to do a 5-way debate. What are you scared of Micheál?

Also, I wonder how many Fianna Fáil candidates are going to be knocking on doors? What are they scared of?

Biggins

Manach wrote: »

In the interests of compromise and to appeal to to-day's youth, I propose a 5-way death-match.

Some might hint that Gerry might be good in that form of debate!

LeixlipRed

cancercowboy wrote: »

So if the ULA have a leader put him forward.

The ULA isn't a political party but I'm sure no one would mind Joe Higgins taking part. We'll probably have more TDs than the Greens post election anyway!

Biggins

cancercowboy wrote: »

Looks like Micheál Martin is scared to do a 5-way debate. What are you scared of Micheál?

Also, I wonder how many Fianna Fáil candidates are going to be knocking on doors? What are they scared of?

I think Martin would be more sacred too, to be honest.
I suspect he'd fear an all out verbal assault on him, airing of his own previous actions, the parties actions (or in-action on some issues) and that such a five-way might turn into a further bloodbath in bad propaganda towards the Fianna Fail image.

The least number of opposition, the more chances of containing possible opposition damage.
..But thats just an educated guess.

flash1080

cancercowboy wrote: »

I call you a broken record because you just repeat the same things over and over.

Except I haven't repeated the same things over and over

steelcityblues

Misleading thread title.

mickoneill30

Irish Slaves for Europe wrote: »

its a good thing for the Irish public, but its done for all the wrong reasons, Kenny just wants less airtime

I agree with this. Out of the useless bunch I'd now vote for FG but Kenny seems to be trying pretty hard to remove that option. He hasn't been impressive any time I've seen him in the media recently.

I think having a 5 party debate is a good thing, if only to get some answers from all party's but I think FG are doing it as a tactical move to either get votes from FF to SF or to give each leader less airtime in general.

steelcityblues wrote: »

Misleading thread title.

Agree with that too.

PeterIanStaker

If there's a 5 way debate, SF will be shown up for the economic illiterates they are, the Greens won't do well either.

opinion guy

flash1080 wrote: »

Is he really? Most people consider Martin/Gilmore/Kenny, FF/Lab/FG, to be the main contenders so a 3-way debate makes sense.

You don't agree with my valid points so you call me a broken record, good stuff.

Well the Greens ought to be at the debate don't you think ? After all they have been a part of the most recent government. They have had some sway over policies etc. It just doesn't seem right to exclude them from the debate. It pains me to say it but I agree with Enda Kenny:eek:

johngalway

Again with the persona hysteria. Didn't these American style TV debates start when Bertie was in power?

I will vote for FG precisely because Enda is there. He puts, IMO, the right people in the right jobs. I much rather than than some attention seeking popularity contestant.

One of this countries many problems is voting for the candidate you'd go for a pint with :rolleyes:

This thread title is seriously misleading. If it was the three Main parties, according to opinion polls, that would be FG, Lab and SF. FF are just the political version of Liverpool.Terrible season, but think they're still part of a "Big Three".

Badabing

Ciaran Lynch from Labour just lashed Fine Gael on the Last Word for not wanting a 3 way debate, saying they want to hide him.

Thread merged with "Kenny refuses Martin TV debate"

johngalway

Badabing wrote: »

Ciaran Lynch from Labour just lashed Fine Gael on the Last Word for not wanting a 3 way debate, saying they want to hide him.

Perhaps Ciaran Lynchs time would be better spent schooling Joan Burton in Labours Economics policies. Last time I heard her on Newstalk, Varadkar had to quote her chapter and verse from her own policies.

Badabing

Has he a point tho?

johngalway

Badabing wrote: »

Has he a point tho?

I've no idea whether they want to hide Kenny or not

As I've said in the past, I could care less if I never heard him speak as long as the right people are in the right places in the front bench. He's done well in rebuilding FG, I'm happy for him to try to rebuild the entire country. I could, genuinely, care less about fluff TV debates.

Badabing

johngalway wrote: »

I've no idea whether they want to hide Kenny or not

As I've said in the past, I could care less if I never heard him speak as long as the right people are in the right places in the front bench. He's done well in rebuilding FG, I'm happy for him to try to rebuild the entire country. I could, genuinely, care less about fluff TV debates.

I presume you wouldn't want Burton in the cabinet post election so? If you want him to pick the right people.

johngalway

Badabing wrote: »

I presume you wouldn't want Burton in the cabinet post election so? If you want him to pick the right people.

I'm sure that's a matter for the Labour party to suggest whom they wish to have as their ministers in cabinet, should FG & Lab form a coalition. As far as I understand that's the way of things in coalition, that parties decide their own ministers. So it wouldn't be up to Enda who Labour want.

Which party holds what positions, I guess, is a matter for negotiation after the numbers are known.

I'm not Labours biggest fan

Dionysus

Great to see a leader of Fine Gael kicking up a fuss just to get Gerry Adams included in democratic debate. How times change.

Poor John Bruton must be turning in his political grave.

Biggins

Biggins wrote: »

As I said in a similar thread elsewhere...

FF definitely want Gerry Adams and SF sidelined.
They DO NOT want to give him a platform so that he can also he equally heard - so don't be surprised when they try to exclude him, his party and the people they might represent.

Glad to see Kenny has more democratic sense and declined the three-way for favouring a five-way instead. Lord knows after 3 failed to be called by-elections, FF are not exactly as democratic as they would like to make themselves out as - and trying to possible shove a certain percentage of a people aside just because they might support a party that is not FF, leads such people then to more desperate measures to be heard!
...And we all know where that road leads and all peace loving people don't want that route!

Biggins wrote: »

Possibly or possibly not. Again I am not a Kenny fan and I too admit there are a few things about him that don't persuade me to take a liking to him - however I still think he's being politically very tactful for calling not just for a 5-way for more democratic means but maybe also for time allotment means too, if he's as bad as others would make out.

What I mean by the latter is that if he was to enter into a five-way, the focus and time of FF (and their on camera, on the spot targeting) would certainly be less and they would have to defend themselves more so than just a three-way in which they could easier confront two party leaders more directly without having the additional worry of being side ambushed/side-tracked by two additional others also.
...And a wise person would know this. Kenny might not know it but could have been informed as to this advantage too in the use of a five-way. Any time Kenny would have "on air" could then just just used deliberately by him more so, to stick to main points without having to have his points diluted and broken up by opposition in more air time that would be available with a three-way, rather than a five-way.

...Its all about tactics and how to use large or little air time to ones best advantage and use it too to avoid ones weaknesses.

Well it looks like I called it right this morning if going on political heads and news analysis teams have said on TV3 news and RTE news this evening.
In conclusion, it all about tactics now and a game too now of who will cave to the others next.

galway2007

cancercowboy wrote: »

Enda Kenny has show he's the better leader once again by ruling out a 3-way debate and instead calling for a 5-way debate, excluding no political leaders. Micheál has just been given a masterclass in one-upmanship.

Micheál has show the hubris and arrogance we've come to expect from Fianna Fail: they really do think they own the country.

This master stroke by Enda Kenny has shown that he really is Taoiseach material. The Taoiseach is a leader of the country, not just his own party. Good on him.

lol
Kenny can not cope with pressure
He will be slaughter in a debate hence it is better to have 5
When Kenny was asked on a local radion station
Why was he hiding from the media?
His reply was Brian o driscoll dose not take all the conversion for Ireland
I give up this idiot dose not even know who kicks conversion for Ireland on the rugby field and he want to run the country

johngalway

galway2007 wrote: »

I give up this idiot dose not even know who kicks conversion for Ireland on the rugby field and he want to run the country

What's that got to do with running the country?

I don't know who takes free kicks for Galway, but I can do my day job.

galway2007

Badabing wrote: »

Ciaran Lynch from Labour just lashed Fine Gael on the Last Word for not wanting a 3 way debate, saying they want to hide him.

he allso said that gilmore will turn up for the debate so it look like 2 way debate
If kenny dose not turn up he is ****ed
I have to ask how dose FG **** up every election race?

Jeboa Safari

galway2007 wrote: »

he allso said that gilmore will turn up for the debate so it look like 2 way debate
If kenny dose not turn up he is ****ed
I have to ask how dose FG **** up every election race?

I don't know if he is, for a start he'll likely be the next Taoiseach, and they're going to need him at the debate. A debate between the 2nd and 3rd/4th party won't be as appealing for the broadcaster, and Michael Martin looks like he's attempting to bully others into his own way from a position of no power, and Gilmore would probably win a debate with him fairly easy. I think he's afraid to have the Greens and SF there, because Sf will attack him from another angle, and he can't point out the ideological differences between FG and Labour with the Greens sitting beside him.
And Enda is nearly better saying nothing at all than being crucified, although I don't think Martin is a good debater either, he's a ditherer too but wouldn't show up as much beside Kenny

Blazer

Can't believe the negative press Kenny is getting for this....
I'd expect it from RTFFE but Newstalk/Today FM was also extremely negative around lunchtime..

I think Martin wants to basically get Kenny+Gilmore together to show that their parties can't agree on policies but as Kenny said a few months ago, "labour can sod off and run their own election, we're going out for the win and so should they"...
FG's in the lead right now so why would he risk getting ambushed by FF+Labour...

in fact the more I hear Martin the most I hate him...more arrogance from FF saying it's Kenny's obligation etc etc to attend this debate blah blah...sickening really to think I used to vote for FF years ago :mad:

unit 1

Irish Slaves for Europe wrote: »

Yeah and most people won't see dail sessions. He has not done any interviews in the past 5 or 6 months which a large portion of people will hear, like the late late show etc.

Having a 5 way debate will inevitably mean less air time for him, and he can use more of his time to attack the policies of the other parties.

Not true. If each candidate is given the same amount on time be it a 3 way or 5 way the the amount of airtime is the same, not different.
Frankly the idea that a party 3rd in the polls, maybe even 4th, whose taoiseach is not fit (correct) to be their leader, and who destroyed our economy should try to dictate the terms of any debate is laughable.

MM (all tea and sympathy) is quite frankly scared to positioned at his true level in a 5 way debate, about the same as SF, and opposite his previous partners the greens.
This is the real reason why he wants to control things, because he is afraid to be seen as on par with SF, and of course Labour are also looking over their shoulder at SF too so they will also oppose the 5 way.

Kenny, again, has been on the money and I suggest anyone that thinks he will be a pushover should take another look at his head to head with bertie. History is written by the victors and rte wanting to appear to have backed the winner always slyly supported bertie. BTW in that head to head I called it as about evens untill bertie tried to trump Kennys irish with a final pathetic and contrived gorry meely my a gut.:D

steelcityblues

Good move by Kenny today, and i'm not his biggest fan.

By getting in there first, it plants in the mind in the average voter that he is less afraid of competition and being challenged by other sides of the political spectrum.

Amazing, how Martin who was putting it on his best 'let's forget about the past, lads' routine yesterday after his coronation showed glimpses today of the usual paranoid, controlling, shifty FF speak. He looked a loser by comparison.

Not sure how the Irish language one will work though, as some of them seem to be more fluent than others?

johngalway

steelcityblues wrote: »

Not sure how the Irish language one will work though, as some of them seem to be more fluent than others?

Yeah, when the Greens pulled out of Govt, at their press conference didn't Gormley hand over a question to Sargent after it was put to him in Irish?

jank

flash1080 wrote: »

So Enda wants more leaders at the debate so there will be less focus on him, he's afraid of going head-to-head with Martin and Gilmore. Enda and FG are pathetic. I'm surprised Enda is willing to debate at all, I thought he would stay in hiding until after the election.

Yeap sure, remember when the media were salvating over the thought that Cowen would roast Enda every day in the Dail? That worked out well ..!?:rolleyes:

COYW

Dionysus wrote: »

Great to see a leader of Fine Gael kicking up a fuss just to get Gerry Adams included in democratic debate. How times change.

Yes but Enda, the next leader of the country, is looking for his inclusion to cover his own ineptitude. Adams was so bad last time round, that he would actually make Enda look good.

COYW

jank wrote: »

Yeap sure, remember when the media were salvating over the thought that Cowen would roast Enda every day in the Dail? That worked out well ..!?:rolleyes:

To be fair, he did mess Enda and Happy up so much that they managed to land themselves in opposition for the current term, from a seemingly unbeatable position.

I just despair when I see the lot of them.

steelcityblues

jank wrote: »

Yeap sure, remember when the media were salvating over the thought that Cowen would roast Enda every day in the Dail? That worked out well ..!?:rolleyes:

"and sure he's very intelligent once you get to know him!" :rolleyes:

LeixlipRed

VB confirms that TV3 will invite the ULA to put forward a spokesperson for their debate. 10 candidates being their criteria for who qualifies.

steelcityblues

LeixlipRed wrote: »

VB confirms that TV3 will invite the ULA to put forward a spokesperson for their debate. 10 candidates being their criteria for who qualifies.

Silly idea by Browne. They don't have the mandatory Dail representation that SF and Grenes have, which makes those two legitimate to be involved in every debate.

This is more about playing to his own political biases - he would have to include the maverick economic right independent types if he wants to be consistent here.

LeixlipRed

The ULA is an alliance of established political parties. How do you group independents? They are, by nature, independent so I can't see how the two can be compared. And I'm willing to wager with you that ULA > Greens post-election.

steelcityblues

LeixlipRed wrote: »

The ULA is an alliance of established political parties. How do you group independents? They are, by nature, independent so I can't see how the two can be compared. And I'm willing to wager with you that ULA > Greens post-election.

Haven't Ross, Somerville, etc. described themselves as a 'grouping' , so how is that not the same as the ULA, who we know are a collection of far left parties?

They are not established Oireachtas parties like SF and Greens which is the important difference.

Hell, on this logic they would have to include those Christian Solidarity guys if they have any candidates up again.

Again this says more about Browne pandering to his own political biases than anything else.

I'm hardly a bigtime Enda defender either, but why did he spin the argument in Martin's favour tonight too?

LeixlipRed

And so what if Christian Solidarity are included if they reached ten candidates? Unless the Ross crew actually form a political party with defined policies I can't see any argument for them being included winning out.

And Browne said this would be TV3's policy. Clearly he's a lefty, I think he's a legend of course But he certainly isn't organising the debate on TV3 single handedly.

steelcityblues

LeixlipRed wrote: »

And so what if Christian Solidarity are included if they reached ten candidates? Unless the Ross crew actually form a political party with defined policies I can't see any argument for them being included winning out.

And Browne said this would be TV3's policy. Clearly he's a lefty, I think he's a legend of course But he certainly isn't organising the debate on TV3 single handedly.[/QUOTE]


But who do you think the most dominant negotiator behind the scenes will be?

LeixlipRed

I don't know to be honest. Is Vincent Browne not just employed to present that show? Surely the TV3 news room will be the guys working on the debate? You tell me