Galway water and the upcoming election

_Whimsical_

Major leak at city reservoir causes massive loss of water

January 21, 2011 - 7:15am
Hundreds of thousands of litres wasted due to structural faults
BY ENDA CUNNINGHAM

*

The Minister for the Environment has been asked to seize control of water services in Galway City, following allegations that hundreds of thousands of litres of drinking water are being lost because of structural faults in the Tonabrucky reservoir.

The Galway City Tribune understands that serious leaks have been discovered within ‘cells’ in the floor slabs of the reservoir – which are flooding surrounding lands – and landowners have been complaining for up to four years.

It is believed that contractors were engaged last year to carry out a survey of the reservoir and discovered major leaks in the base of the structure.

When contacted by this newspaper, a City Council spokesperson declined to comment on the issue, as it had been raised by Councillor Padraig Conneely, who is being ‘boycotted’ by the entire workforce of the Council. He added that any questions relating specifically to Tonabrucky should be directed to the County Council.

And a spokesperson for Galway County Council – which is responsible for the Tonabrucky reservoir – failed to return phone calls from this newspaper on Wednesday and Thursday.

However, joint local authority funding has been sought from the Department of the Environment for a new reservoir at Tonabrucky, and the replacement of the ‘rising main’ which pumps treated water from the Terryland treatment plant (which the city operates) to Tonabrucky.

Cllr Padraig Conneely said the capacity of the rising main is inadequate as the infrastructure is obsolete and unable to cope with modern demands.

“Water is leaking from cells in the floor slab and there is a lake forming on the land around it, destroying the land. It’s like quicksand.

“Hundreds of thousands of gallons of treated water have been lost, which is having a major effect on the water supply west of the city. The Council say they are running around fixing leaks, but they are not looking at the big picture.

“I am writing to the Department and the Minister to investigate what’s going on, because they [the Council] are denying locals the basic human right to water. I want the Minister to carry out an entire audit of water services in Galway once and for all, because the issues are not being addressed by the Council.

For more on this story, see the Galway City Tribune.

So most everyone in Galway has had problems with water this Christmas period and last, whether it was complete lack of supply or greatly reduced pressure. We been told it's solely a consequence of the cold weather,frozen pipes and subsequent leaks and home owners running taps to prevent these problems.

The truth is that the root of the problem is structural faults in our water storage and supply infrastructure. This could be fixed. Without it being fixed we will have problems during every very cold spell and every dry hot spell. Before we all go on to find ourselves paying water rates next year and having to pay for bottled water when supply is not forthcoming due to weather issues let's try and let this problem be one that politicians are hearing about on doorsteps. We aren't into protesting or marching here but surely we can all make something heard when people are coming to knock on our doors.

It mightn't seem like a pressing issue in the middle of the economic disaster we find ourselves but adequate running water is one of the basic expectations we should have as citizens of a modern society.

dafunk

I completely agree and I will make a point that I will not pay for water. I don't care if I end up in court or jail over it but I will under no circumstances pay for it. I know people pay for water in other countries but they

1) can drink what comes from the taps without threat of cryptosporidium, e-coli or lead poisoning.

2) are not supplied with drinking water that is heavily chlorinated and flouridated.

3) do not have to endure weeks of no water supply and

4) do not live in a country where it rains every fecking day.

If the water charge money was invested in improving our supply I would pay for it but the charges paid will be dumped into the ever expanding infinite hole of debt and our supply will not be improved.

If they cut me off for not paying my plan is to collect rainwater, feed it back into my tanks to supply the shower and utilities and continue to by bottled water for drinking as most of us already do.

Sort of going on a tangent, but yes, I will be posing the very same question to any politicans who call at my door.

snubbleste

But it is being fixed. The Council are aware of the problems with Tonabrucky and have applied for funding to repair it.

The only way to safeguard our local water supplies is to pay local taxes to maintain the infrastructure ie. water metering and charges. Are we willing to pay those?

emptybladder

snubbleste wrote: »

But it is being fixed. The Council are aware of the problems with Tonabrucky and have applied for funding to repair it.

But it's not being fixed. Both councils were told of the leaks FOUR years ago. They applied for funding last summer.

Why did it take 3.5 years to prepare the application?

And do you honestly believe they're going to get it when the Government already owes the City Council millions for Mutton Island Phase I?

dafunk

If it is fixed then it'd be fair to charge for it but you shouldnt charge for a service that you might be able to provide some time in the future. It's a crock of ****.

Does anyone think that meters will be installed or will it just be a fixed price per household. I suspect the latter and as a one person household this is another reason why I will choose to be disconnected from the mains and be responsible for my own supply.

emptybladder

dafunk wrote: »

If it is fixed then it'd be fair to charge for it but you shouldnt charge for a service that you might be able to provide some time in the future. It's a crock of ****.

Does anyone think that meters will be installed or will it just be a fixed price per household. I suspect the latter and as a one person household this is another reason why I will choose to be disconnected from the mains and be responsible for my own supply.

Do not permit the council or their agents, Veolia, on your property to install a meter.

gandroid

That's shocking but typical really. No wonder they are still turning off the water at night in that area despite lots of rain in the past few weeks. What a joke. Will someone be found culpable? No.

_Whimsical_

emptybladder wrote: »

Do not permit the council or their agents, Veolia, on your property to install a meter.

What an appropriate nickname.

I would prefer a meter to a flat rate but by the same token I'm sure that low users and small households will pay over the odds to support larger households. As Dafunk has said I wouldn't mind this so much if we could be confident the money would be invested in better supply provision but I'd say that's doubtful. Instead more likely we'll be paying to have the meter installed ,read and maintained and to service the countries debts.

The fact remains though that "hundreds of thousands of gallons" are being wasted now and that will translate to a poor service for us. I know people living in high areas in Knocknacarra for instance who say their washing machines aren't working even now because of low pressure. That kind of problem will only get worse and more wide spread if something isn't done about it. Nothing will be done if there isn't public awareness of the problem and if it doesn't become an issue that politicians are forced to deal with.

I really resent that so many people still fully believe that the main water supply problem here is cold weather and people letting their taps drip during these spells. Yes those things exacerbate the problem but mainly because of the state of the infrastructure. We deserve better and in the next four weeks we have a the best chance we are going to get to raise the problem so I hope people will take advantage of it.

philbo

I hope water charges do come in. There's so much wastage in this country, people leaving taps running during cold spells, etc...

Is it because it rains so much that people don't pay any attention to their water usage? Having lived in a few other countries and seen how charges are bloody effective, I'm amazed they haven't come in sooner. Makes no sense to me.

Look at council tax in the UK. Solves so many problems, and provides a lot of quality services. People here complain so much about things but are unwilling to have to pay anything towards solving it.

funnyname

philbo wrote: »

I hope water charges do come in. There's so much wastage in this country, people leaving taps running during cold spells, etc...

Is it because it rains so much that people don't pay any attention to their water usage? Having lived in a few other countries and seen how charges are bloody effective, I'm amazed they haven't come in sooner. Makes no sense to me.

Look at council tax in the UK. Solves so many problems, and provides a lot of quality services. People here complain so much about things but are unwilling to have to pay anything towards solving it.

Water charges are extra to council tax.

emptybladder

philbo wrote: »

I hope water charges do come in. There's so much wastage in this country, people leaving taps running during cold spells, etc...

People here complain so much

Hang on, what about the confirmed 40% wastage from the mains in the city? Who should pay for that, the taxpayer?

philbo

funnyname wrote: »

Water charges are extra to council tax.

never said they weren't.

@emptybladder:

maybe if there was money going specifically to the funding of maintenance and repair of the waterworks, and not something that had to be applied for it wouldn't be leaking for 4 years?

Both councils were told of the leaks FOUR years ago. They applied for funding last summer.

emptybladder

philbo wrote: »

never said they weren't. <br />
<br />
@emptybladder:<br />
<br />
maybe if there was money going specifically to the funding of maintenance and repair of the waterworks, and not something that had to be applied for it wouldn't be leaking for 4 years?

<br />
<br />
The 40% is nothing to do with the reservoir. It's mains leakage. And didnt they get 20 mil for the terryland upgrade from gormley. Why didnt they apply for reservoir funding. They knew about it.

philbo

does that really make any difference to the point?

If there was a specific rate paid that goes towards funding a specific function, it would remove the excuse of "lack of funding," it would make the public much more aware of roughly how much money goes towards it, and exactly what their taxes go towards. The bollucks of "applying for funding" is just another problem that causes delays and gives people more excuses to take it easy at work.

"Ah, we can't do anything till the funding comes through...." sure we'll just wait a while to apply for that, take it easy for a few weeks, easy money!

When I was living in the UK, I was annoyed about paying council tax initially, until I actually looked around and saw just how many good things came out of it. Even down to things like libraries, the great condition of all the parks in the area (something totally lacking in Galway)-you could see what your money was going towards.

emptybladder

I pay 42% tax. I pay PRSI, I also pay VHI, because I learned the hard way our health system is a joke, I pay VAT on all my purchases, I pay motor tax, I pay the extra levies on petrol, I paid (unlawful) VRT on my car in 06, I pay carbon tax on my home heating oil and briquettes, I buy a TV licence but dont watch RTE, I paid €7k stamp duty on my house.

Do I not contribute enough to the Exchequer receipts already philbo?

Should I be chipping in to cover the cost of the mistakes and incompetence of local and central government?

I can just about cover my monthly bills because I lost my job, but thankfully found another, albeit at 30% less earnings, more when I factor in the budget.

Why the fcuk should I pay a water charge when I'm taxed to the breadline already?

philbo

Well, what is your suggestion?

It's the one attitude that is completely rife through out the whole country at the moment is that everyone is willing to complain about how ****e everything is, but no one is willing to do anything, or contribute anything more to try and fix it.

Now I'm not saying anything like Mr Lenihan's genius of "We all partied" but the fact remains that collectively, while the good times were here, the majority of people turned a blind eye, or just didn't care. Now that it's all hit the fan, everyone seems to have taken on a "woe is me" attitude. People complain and complain, but no one has managed to come up with alternative options.

I'm not going to completely derail the thread by bringing it into a big analysis of the inbred problems of the Irish psyche or whatever, but the fact is people are willing to complain about the problem here, but totally unwilling to do anything to try and help resolve it.

whatsyourquota

I still have no hot water at all and the cold water regularely goes :mad:

Mrs OBumble

philbo wrote: »

I hope water charges do come in. There's so much wastage in this country, people leaving taps running during cold spells, etc...

Is it because it rains so much that people don't pay any attention to their water usage? Having lived in a few other countries and seen how charges are bloody effective, I'm amazed they haven't come in sooner. Makes no sense to me.

Look at council tax in the UK. Solves so many problems, and provides a lot of quality services. People here complain so much about things but are unwilling to have to pay anything towards solving it.

+1

It totally amazes me that councils here are expected to provide services with no domestic rating base.

Mrs OBumble

emptybladder wrote: »

I pay 42% tax. I pay PRSI, I also pay VHI, because I learned the hard way our health system is a joke, I pay VAT on all my purchases, I pay motor tax, I pay the extra levies on petrol, I paid (unlawful) VRT on my car in 06, I pay carbon tax on my home heating oil and briquettes, I buy a TV licence but dont watch RTE, I paid €7k stamp duty on my house.

Do I not contribute enough to the Exchequer receipts already philbo?

Should I be chipping in to cover the cost of the mistakes and incompetence of local and central government?

I can just about cover my monthly bills because I lost my job, but thankfully found another, albeit at 30% less earnings, more when I factor in the budget.

Why the fcuk should I pay a water charge when I'm taxed to the breadline already?

If you are on a salary high enough that the top proportion of it is taxed at 42%, and are running a car, then you're not on the breadline. (Oh, and you forgot the universal social charge from your list).

You are already paying a water-charge, however it's done through general taxes rather than having a bit labelled "water". In general, I support the general taxes approach. But water is precious and people are inclined to waste it unless they're given an incentive to change their ways.

By analogy, most people would say that electricity is a fundamental requirement for living in our society today. But no one would seriously suggest charging for it via general taxation rather metered use.

dafunk

philbo wrote: »

I hope water charges do come in. There's so much wastage in this country, people leaving taps running during cold spells, etc...

Is it because it rains so much that people don't pay any attention to their water usage? Having lived in a few other countries and seen how charges are bloody effective, I'm amazed they haven't come in sooner. Makes no sense to me.

Look at council tax in the UK. Solves so many problems, and provides a lot of quality services. People here complain so much about things but are unwilling to have to pay anything towards solving it.

I am unwilling to pay it because I have 0% confidence that it will be improved and if you have been here any amount of time I think you'll agree that we will be taxed but our service will remain the same.

Amhran Nua

The most eyebrow raising thing about the whole affair here for me is that the council workers feel they have the right to boycott a publicly elected representative. I'm fairly sure we could find plenty of people on the dole queues who'd be delighted to do their jobs without downing tools when councillors don't do as they are told.

Back on topic, the council is now and always has been a shambles. The money was available for years to fix the crypto problem before it actually happened.

gandroid

Amhran Nua wrote: »

The most eyebrow raising thing about the whole affair here for me is that the council workers feel they have the right to boycott a publicly elected representative. I'm fairly sure we could find plenty of people on the dole queues who'd be delighted to do their jobs without downing tools when councillors don't do as they are told.

My thoughts exactly. They should get on with the job or get out.

emptybladder

JustMary wrote: »

If you are on a salary high enough that the top proportion of it is taxed at 42%, and are running a car, then you're not on the breadline.

Last month, I paid the ESB on credit card. After bills (I have spending completely cut), I have nothing left for day-to-day expenses. And I mean nothing. My car tax is overdue. I can't afford it. I desperately need a new suit and shoes for work. I can't afford them. I can just about do a weekly grocery shop in Lidl. I consider that to be on the breadline. I am running a car because I live on the west side of the city and work on the east, and need it for business journeys every now and then. I don't have a choice.

(Oh, and you forgot the universal social charge from your list).

I didn't. For ease, I chose to refer to it as PRSI and will do until USC becomes a universally recognised and accepted acronym. What's a few more quid in yet another tax, right?

You are already paying a water-charge, however it's done through general taxes

Correct. I am contributing towards an unreliable and arguably unsafe water service delivered through obsolete infrastructure that should have been replaced several years ago when John Gormley allocated money for the Terryland upgrade. Instead, 40% of treated water is lost from mains leaks, which the Council seems to consider normal,

But water is precious and people are inclined to waste it unless they're given an incentive to change their ways.

I agree. But why should I pay for a service I can't rely on?

By analogy, most people would say that electricity is a fundamental requirement for living in our society today. But no one would seriously suggest charging for it via general taxation rather metered use.

Water is a natural resource. Electricity is a man-made resource. Other than water requiring UV treatment etc before being fit for consumption (except in Galway city) and the costs incurred there, I fail to see how you can compare the two.

galwayrush

I'm building a water storage tank will use collected rainwater. Costing me 1500 euro, a once off costing. :cool:

Neighbour of mine who has a lot of horses got a water bill for 3 months usage for 3700 euro:eek:.He's getting a well bored at a cost of less than 10K, He'll recover the costs in less than one year.

I pay council rates already, no way will i pay an extra stealth tax.

Amhran Nua

emptybladder wrote: »

Other than water requiring UV treatment etc before being fit for consumption (except in Galway city) and the costs incurred there, I fail to see how you can compare the two.

In fairness it's a bit more complicated than that, including fixing the aforementioned leaks. What I don't like however is being forced to pay a water charge, and then watching while the water problems continue for one year, two years, five years, and ten years down the road. How can I say this? It's already happened. The money was there to deal with the crypto problem long before it came about.

Instead we'll see water rates lining the pockets of mini mandarins and being used to buy properties from local "families" who are "labouring under a double mortgage" (direct quote from the Independent last year) before being shunted back into social and affordable housing at a higher price than you could get by just buying the house on the open market these days. Upwards of a third of the council budget went to this purpose in 2009, as far as I'm aware, since they were shouting at the government to make up the shortfall for this end.

And to cap it all off, driving into town via Rahoon at 9.45pm this Saturday night, who did I see but this man, out with a photographer, who I assume he hired from his own pocket:

since he's the very fellow who is being boycotted by every worker in the council at the moment. He appeared to be cataloguing the flood from the burst pipe outside the petrol station, which is keeping the road well moisturised from Threadneedle to NUIG.

I could go on, but that will do to be getting on with.

emptybladder

Amhran Nua wrote: »

In fairness it's a bit more complicated than that

Ah, I know that, but Saturday is hangover day, so I couldn't have been bothered going into it!

Saw that burst pipe last night alright. Where was the Council crew to fix it, because it was like that in the morning too?

And a warning to motorists, there's a monstrous pothole near the footpath outside Arch Motors (close to Aldi IIRC). It will be full of water from the burst pipe. You'll lose a corner of your car if you hit it.

snubbleste

emptybladder wrote: »

Ah, I know that, but Saturday is hangover day, so I couldn't have been bothered going into it!
Saw that burst pipe last night alright. Where was the Council crew to fix it, because it was like that in the morning too?
And a warning to motorists, there's a monstrous pothole near the footpath outside Arch Motors (close to Aldi IIRC). It will be full of water from the burst pipe. You'll lose a corner of your car if you hit it.

It only burst sometime yesterday just outside the Fine Wines place, the pressure of the water forced the footpath to rise. Council workers were there at 0830 this morning anyway but it was still flowing.

Storm 10

I passed by that big water leak on the Seamus Quirke Road several times yesterday and there was no council worker to be seen up to 7pm last night, as far as I am aware they only came this morning yet it was gushing water all over the road yesterday.

So much for the Council asking people to save water when the let huge leaks like that one carry on wasting it, SHAME :mad::mad: