11-year-old American is youngest person in world to face life without parole

AckwelFoley

UglyBolloxFace wrote: »

.

Epic user name.

iPlop

bluewolf wrote: »

I blame video games. And society.

Manhunt 2 on the Wii

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReL_H_IozsQ

BASHIR

sdonn wrote: »

This.

might as well give him the death penalty, because tbh he will NEVER integrate into society or have ANY hope of rehabilitation if the US justice system has its way./

How can you say this that child is young. yes deserves his sentence, but you or noone can see into the future, and you dont know anyones capabilities to change. By the time that child serves his sentence how are you to know what kind of person they will be.

goose2005

Ghandee wrote: »

The little shiite killed a pregnant woman, AND a nearly full term unborn baby ffs! No matter how you look at it, he murdered two people in cold blood!

Unless you're pro-abortion - or does the foetus become a human when someone else kills him/her?

goose2005

goose2005 wrote: »

Unless you're pro-abortion - or does the foetus become a human when someone else kills him/her?

This is not the place for a fcukin' abortion debate

AckwelFoley

[Troll/] ffs this is only a child, ok he shot a woman in a bed, bu he shouldnt be punished, if he pissed on her - yes, ban him from watching tv and let him go to bed without supper, but murder no - i also think that those children that killed Jamie Bolger shouldnt have been sent to jail, they were only children, they shouldn't be punished for anything they do- who cares about the victims of crime!!! The fcuking victim is dead - we need to care about the perpetrators [/troll]

hondasam

I don't think he would grow up to be a very nice adult if he is like this as a child. I don't agree with life in prison for him either, he needs more than that.

superfish

some people here being very harsh yes his crime was vile, but hes 11 years old still a child ffs yes he needs to be taught what he did was wrong but life imprisonment before his life has even begun ? do you seriously think this 11 year old boy will have the same mind frame at say 21 ? its the parents who need sorting out letting a child get his hands on a gun im sure half of you or your kids could do the same if given a gun at 11 hes a kid

Stinicker

They should execute him, that would set a precident, He is not a child as far as I'm concerned, kids these days are riding at from age twelve onwards and doing drugs etc. and have as much street savvy & knowledge as kids had when they reached 18, a quarter decade ago.

He made a conscious decision to shoot and kill and should thus be executed and this excuse he is young is no excuse. Execute the little scumbag and save society a person who knows he can kill and get away with it.

Awaits bleeding heart liberal rant

Catari Jaguar

The USA fails another child...

Children lash out when they run out of coping skills. This child was obviously very distressed, angered, frustrated. This was an ill conceived plan and even though he knew guns = death he probably didn't see it as infinite. The same way a lot of young people contemplate suicide as a solution but don't realise they'll never get that second chance.

What I want to know is how this was over looked by the Dad, by teachers at school etc. No counselling given to the child. If he was perceived as a threat the victim why was he given access to a gun? I feel terrible for the girl and her baby, it was a story that stuck with me and immediately popped into my mind when I read this thread title. A needless death that could have been prevented with the right interventions.

It's adults that are to blame, children need to be taught and directed and cared for.

Amazing how a country so black and white, so full of Christian values and harsh punishments has one of the highest crime rates in the world. Seriously, what is locking this kid up going to achieve??

Something is not working.

Monty Burnz

crayolastereo wrote: »

I don't think thats fair. He was 11. At eleven you don't understand life and death. This woman and her baby were replacing him in the eyes of his father. He deserves to be punished, he doesn't deserve to be locked away the rest of his life.

I'm sorry, at 11 you most definitely do understand life and death, unless there is something seriously wrong with you. At 6 or 7, I might agree with you. But by 11 - no.

Monty Burnz

superfish wrote: »

some people here being very harsh yes his crime was vile, but hes 11 years old still a child ffs yes he needs to be taught what he did was wrong but life imprisonment before his life has even begun ?

He's not 11, he's 13.

superfish

Monty Burnz wrote: »

He's not 11, he's 13.

ahh sorry lets execute him so

saintsaltynuts

Ye and throw away the key, evil little sh1te.

MagicMarker

cherub rock wrote: »

The USA fails another child...

Children lash out when they run out of coping skills. This child was obviously very distressed, angered, frustrated. This was an ill conceived plan and even though he knew guns = death he probably didn't see it as infinite. The same way a lot of young people contemplate suicide as a solution but don't realise they'll never get that second chance.

What I want to know is how this was over looked by the Dad, by teachers at school etc. No counselling given to the child. If he was perceived as a threat the victim why was he given access to a gun? I feel terrible for the girl and her baby, it was a story that stuck with me and immediately popped into my mind when I read this thread title. A needless death that could have been prevented with the right interventions.

It's adults that are to blame, children need to be taught and directed and cared for.

Amazing how a country so black and white, so full of Christian values and harsh punishments has one of the highest crime rates in the world. Seriously, what is locking this kid up going to achieve??

Something is not working.

Yep, it's everyone's fault but the child's.

Cheap Thrills!

cherub rock wrote: »

The USA fails another child...

Children lash out when they run out of coping skills. This child was obviously very distressed, angered, frustrated. This was an ill conceived plan and even though he knew guns = death he probably didn't see it as infinite. The same way a lot of young people contemplate suicide as a solution but don't realise they'll never get that second chance.

What I want to know is how this was over looked by the Dad, by teachers at school etc. No counselling given to the child. If he was perceived as a threat the victim why was he given access to a gun? I feel terrible for the girl and her baby, it was a story that stuck with me and immediately popped into my mind when I read this thread title. A needless death that could have been prevented with the right interventions.

It's adults that are to blame, children need to be taught and directed and cared for.

Amazing how a country so black and white, so full of Christian values and harsh punishments has one of the highest crime rates in the world. Seriously, what is locking this kid up going to achieve??

Something is not working.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ibb-hiAZO1g

enfant terrible

saywhatyousee wrote: »

i would rather death than life without parole.i think he will learn his lession

Are American prisons not like Irish ones, do you not get sky tv and an xbox 360?

CrazyRabbit

Last time I checked, kids don't just get up on a whim and murder people. There is always a cause....something that brought them to that point.

What happened to that boy during his life that led him to the point where he felt it was necessary and OK to kill?

In this case, I see 3 victims.
Somebody messed that boys head up badly & they also should pay.

As for the life sentence, I really don't know. A part of me thinks it's fair because he took two lives in cold blood. Another part says "Hey, he's just a kid and he's not responsible for how badly he was raised".

BASHIR

Stinicker wrote: »

They should execute him, that would set a precident,

Im not goin to rant at you but please explain how executing a child sets a precident? Do you mean a precedent so other children know not to do this? Because I dont think many 11-13 year olds read many newspapers or are up to date with current affairs

Catari Jaguar

MagicMarker wrote: »

Yep, it's everyone's fault but the child's.

His motive was jealousy. How does a kid make a jump from naturally feeling jealous to wanting that person dead?! I mean that is some pretty powerful emotion.

Nothing could have been done between those stages? He had a need, it wasn't met. And also, you don't just give a child a gun! Crazy society. I don't know the family, or the background or this child's mental state (what happened to his own mother?) I know he had a new step family, that's it.

I'm not saying he's blameless. I'm saying it should have and could have been prevented. Now locking him away won't solve anything. It just means the father loses another child. If he poses a future danger, or is mentally unstable that needs to be addressed. He was "thriving" in the juvenile centre. Will he continue to get these supports when he's properly convicted or will they be taken away? Throw away the key and let him rot seems to be the answer here. What good will that do?

Catari Jaguar

This case isn't in the same league as Jamie Bolger's murder. That was beyond warped. I still can't get my head around it.

ScumLord

cherub rock wrote: »

His motive was jealousy. How does a kid make a jump from naturally feeling jealous to wanting that person dead?! I mean that is some pretty powerful emotion.

Not really, children need to be taught how to be sociable and respectful members of society, they're not born with they're born as self centred as any other animal.

Children are a blank slate, if you dump them into a pack of wild dogs they'll grow up acting like wild dogs, if they grow up in an abusive home with no respect that's what they tend to become. Social niceties aren't as inherent in people as people seem to think if you teach a human killing is ok it will just go along with that until it learns otherwise through experience.

dr.bollocko

Swansygoatse dude banned.
Carry on.
IE There's no point feeding them cos they cant reply.

minidazzler

Laisurg wrote: »

I'd be very interested in why he shot and killed her, if it was for no reason whatever i still wouldn't be in favor of this, kids act on impulse and why he should still go to prison of course but i think life without any chance of parole for an 11 year old is stupidly harsh, like the father says how is a kid meant to understand this, not only that but what happens to the father? His wife is dead and now his son is never going to see daylight again, he's completely alone, he also doesn't feel that he should be going away forever.

Then again it is the states, sometimes that place looks worse than here.

Life without parole is the best he should hope for. Just think, a kid goes to prison for murder, is raised in an enviroment like that nothing good is coming out, let him rot, he had the presence of mind to get the gun, go to the room, cock it and shoot it at a person. He deserves life without parole.

Up-n-atom!

I heard another story recently about a 10 year old who shot his mother in the US, supposedly over a minor domestic argument. IMO there's something VERY wrong with a society where this is becoming more prevalent, and all the energies of the discussions about it seem focused on the punishment of the guilty parties rather than what can be done to stop this sort of thing happening again. Gun control reform would be a start, but there seems to be a strong resistence to this - some people still think they're still living on the frontier...There's a massive proportion of the population in prison in America; while I think the kid should be punished if found guilty, the 'lock 'em up and throw away the key' solution obviously isn't working to stop these sorts of crimes happening in the first place.

AckwelFoley

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Swansygoatse dude banned.
Carry on.
IE There's no point feeding them cos they cant reply.

off topic..


...but my reply was epic (ish) :mad:


:pac:


ok, as for the topic - the main gripe i have is that as a gun holder myself the best place to keep a gun when you have children in the home is... another house..

I own a gun, but i wont keep it at home, merely for the fact that its not safe when there are chilren in the house and yes i have a gun cabinet, with a lock and key, but i remember being 9, and if i wanted a key id find it.

Nodin

Gnobe wrote: »

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/youngest-american-life-without-parole/

I'm all for tougher sentences against murderers and other serious crimes, but this is a bit harsh isn't it??

Lunacy, tbh.

RichieC

America is a broken, broken place.

enfant terrible

RichieC wrote: »

America is a broken, broken place.

They should be more like us.

crayolastereo

crayolastereo wrote: »

I don't think 11 year olds understand the finality of death. When my brother was 11 he still believed in Santa. If he killed the person who was replacing him in the life of the only person that mattered to him, I would understand.

I don't think you can equate this situation with Jamie Bulger. He was a random 3 year old, it was meticulously planned and they didn't just kill him. There was humiliation, torture and sexual abuse.

I don't know what kind of 11-year-olds you know. 11 is not a young child! It's well old enough to understand life and death. I'd expect a 6 year old of average intelligence to comprehend that as well.

That said, I'm not sure I agree with this sentence. Why so harsh, when people much older do much worse things and get out of jail? I do feel sorry for the kid. Being so f**ked up that you think it's OK to kill your stepmom can't be fun. But that doesn't mean he didn't know what he was doing.

mikemac

Deserves it

If he pled guilty I reckon he should get a lighter sentence

mikemac

cherub rock wrote: »

This case isn't in the same league as Jamie Bolger's murder. That was beyond warped. I still can't get my head around it.

This is going to come across as realy pedantic and it's not aimed at you.

The only people who reported on Jamie were the tabloids.
Every interview the parents ever gave was on James Bulger.

Shortening it to Jamie is a typical tabloid tactic.
Same as Maddie, the McCann's never said Maddie

If some child Michael ever dies tragically the report will be Mikey or something similar

The poor lad's name is James.
It's not important to most , just something I always notice

If you don't understand that shooting someone is wrong when you are 11 then you are one messed up person and I don't want you on the streets ever. I don't know what kind of 11 year old kids some of you know but I'm glad I don't know any with such scant disregard for life.

tallaghtmick

anyone else shocked that he was white,i thought white americans get away with everything.

wonderfulname

The sentence of life without parole is mandatory, so if he is convicted, which he will be as there is a lot of evidence against him, that will be his punishment as there is no alternative.

Of course he deserves to be punished, but not like that, life makes sense, it could be that he has a clinical problem, or that after this he remains forever a threat to society. On the other hand its seriously likely that at some point in his future he'll be suitable to continue on in society. If convicted he is going to get an education, he is going to be counselled, he is also going to grow up, things will change, its insane that there is no option of parole.

This is not a question of the boys innocence, its about the absurdity of the law.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4ONZV2u1qw

About the guy in the video, just in case you were curious as to what authority he has.

bonerm

I personally think all US citizens should be incarcerated at birth and left there until they can demonstrate that they can act like responsible children.

TeddyTedson

At 11 to get life without parole is retarded.
Give him 10 years and then life if he kills again after that.

bonerm

tallaghtmick wrote: »

anyone else shocked that he was white,i thought white americans get away with everything.

It's a myth that there's one law for whites in america and another for blacks. In reality there's one law for RICH and another for POOR. It's just that blacks are over-represented in the poor category. I'd imagine this 11 year old kid doesn't have a million dollar trust fund waiting for him anywhere for instance.

Son Of A Vidic

There's a big difference generally between an 11 year old today and an 11 year old 30 or 40 years ago. So I'd let the little bast@rd rot!

Scuid Mhór

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

You would be surprised, 11, not 3.

you would be surprised. 11 isn't an age where you think things through.

seanybiker

Proper order. He's a murderer so treat him as one

Captain_Generic

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

There's a big difference generally between an 11 year old today and an 11 year old 30 or 40 years ago. So I'd let the little bast@rd rot!

A dapper moustache for one

fergpie

TeddyTedson wrote: »

At 11 to get life without parole is retarded.
Give him 10 years and then life if he kills again after that.

out at 21 for two counts of murder? ha!

Parole should be available but as said before, not for a very long time

jackie1974

The child shoud not have had access to a gun ffs, that's a child throwing a tantrum with a lethal weapon. If guns weren't such an acceptable part of american culture that wouldn't happen and none of us know the chain of events that led up to the murder. There's no winners in this situation, it's awful

Lirange

MagicMarker wrote: »

I remember when this was first posted on boards, I can't say I'd be against life but the option of parole should be there. Just not for a very very long time.

I tend to agree with this. He'll serve his time in a juvenile facility and will be transferred to the main prison population when he turns 18. That's the policy in America.

He had been making threats towards her. So it sounds like it was premeditated. Just in case retrieving a gun and killing other people whilst they slept isn't enough to convince people. The deceased young woman is also leaving behind two little daughters from a previous relationship.

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

you would be surprised. 11 isn't an age where you think things through.

You'd be surprised. Believe or not I've been 11 years old before. You don't have to be capable of abstract thinking to differentiate between right and wrong when it comes to killing another person. Maybe something will come up in this case that will change my thinking on it. But I've no more sympathy for him than the two little boys that killed Bulger. What did society do wrong to create those two little murderers then? If anything the way they behaved in the Bulger case indicates more mental disturbance than this case from what we've learned so far. So off to a therapist with them!!

jackie1974 wrote: »

The child shoud not have had access to a gun ffs, that's a child throwing a tantrum with a lethal weapon. If guns weren't such an acceptable part of american culture that wouldn't happen and none of us know the chain of events that led up to the murder. There's no winners in this situation, it's awful

His parents were sleeping. They weren't in the middle of an argument at the time. If they had one earlier he had plenty of time to cool off. He waited for them to fall asleep, crept in, and then deliberately shot her. He had been making threats toward her over a period of time. It's not an instance of him losing control for a second and acting on impulse.

jackie1974

The case of the two boys that killed Jamie Bolger is totally different, it was totally premeditated, they tried to take another child a week before they took Jamie so they had time to think about what they were going to do, it wasn't a spur of the moment thing. They went out with the intention of taking a child and re enacting scenes they had watched in a film. That is evil and if they were put away for life they would deserve it IMO but they weren't they were given the benefit of rehabilitation.

The fact that Pennsylvannia has 450 under 18s locked up for life speaks volumes about their justice system and obviously it's a system that's not working.

skyhighflyer

I'm amazed that so many people on can't distinguish between an allegation and something that's been proven.

Some prosecutor is accusing the boy of doing it (isn't it usually the lover in these situations? -wouldn't be too hard for a father to frame an 11 year old)

and people on here are saying he should be locked up for life and this before a trial.

Am I the only one who sees something very wrong here?

enfant terrible

jackie1974 wrote: »

The fact that Pennsylvannia has 450 under 18s locked up for life speaks volumes about their justice system and obviously it's a system that's not working.

Isn't punishment a part of the judicial system too, not just deterrence?

MagicMarker

skyhighflyer wrote: »

I'm amazed that so many people on can't distinguish between an allegation and something that's been proven.

Some prosecutor is accusing the boy of doing it (isn't it usually the lover in these situations? -wouldn't be too hard for a father to frame an 11 year old)

and people on here are saying he should be locked up for life and this before a trial.

Am I the only one who sees something very wrong here?

Ah yeah, it's obvious that his father framed him and placed the gun residue on his shirt, and coerced his 7 year old daughter to tell police that she saw him with the gun, and the other child who saw him throw the bullet casing on the ground before getting on the bus to school. The father also made the other children lie about the kid threatening to kill the victim on various occasions before hand.

Yep.

enfant terrible

MagicMarker wrote: »

Ah yeah, it's obvious that his father framed him and placed the gun residue on his shirt, and coerced his 7 year old daughter to tell police that she saw him with the gun, and the other child who saw him throw the bullet casing on the ground before getting on the bus to school. The father also made the other children lie about the kid threatening to kill the victim on various occasions before hand.

Yep.

Your gonna be so sorry if that turns out to be true.