anyone here going to vote sinn féin?

Fitzerb

Dan_Solo wrote: »

How this started was:

To which you replied:

By whatever pedantry you want to apply, the IRA are not "doing the same thing" so you're plain wrong using this as a reason to call them stupid.
We can drag your embarrassment out as long as you like pal.

Pal ?

We are really entering the mature section of the debate now I see

SEVERA

Fitzerb wrote: »

Should we employ the same daft logic in northern Ireland where SF are in power ?...

Mind you SF never gave children loaded AK47's, No they gave the loaded armailite's

look this is crazy sinn fein never gave children "loaded armalite" you should apologise for that blatant lie,

Fitzerb

Dan_Solo wrote: »

How this started was:

To which you replied:

By whatever pedantry you want to apply, the IRA are not "doing the same thing" so you're plain wrong using this as a reason to call them stupid.
We can drag your embarrassment out as long as you like pal.

Incorrect , again.

I was and still am defending my right to vote for whoever I wish, regardless of how you see them and that this does not make me or anyone else stupid as you stated.
I made the point (which you totally missed in your rush to insult) that SF/IRA stayed with a failed bombing policy for many many years

Fitzerb

Dan_Solo wrote: »

OK, so you want to ignore your claims about Labour's funding by the unions now I see. Let's move on to spare you further embarrassment, shall we?

Why shouldn't I compare one murder with another?
FF health policy kills thousands every year. Cancer care's a joke. A+E's a joke. People die every day on waiting lists. Shoot them or give the money to treat them away to banks, they die all the same, don't they?
I'm sorry I gave that kid the loaded AK47... sure he would have killed that family anyway...

SEVERA wrote: »

look this is crazy sinn fein never gave children "loaded armalite" you should apologise for that blatant lie,

You brought the issues of guns into the debate by suggesting (somehow) that the FF helath policy was like giving a gun to child.

The IRA did give guns to teenagers thats a fact. To me teeangers are children

Fitzerb

SEVERA wrote: »

look man i am not trained in anything you just need to wise up that's all, and you did refer to the Irish voter moving to the right in quote 3071 i take from that you are an Irish voter { can you clarify this} and in a roundabout, but not too complicated way you mean you.
please don't patronise me because i am a s/f supporter, can you not see its counterproductive to Ireland's overall goal,which is to get out of the mess.

OK I will try and explain in more detail my view.

It is my view that the industrial unrest that may / will happen will not be greeted by people with open arms. This assessment is made from experience. When we have industrial disputes it is amazing how the consumer turns on the worker and blame the worker for taking industrial action. Perhaps you may be lucky enough to be young enough never to have lived through a period of industrial unrest but the tendency in Ireland is that the consumer will blame the worker in the majority of cases. It is actually quite strange really because in some cases while people will not pass the picket they will still blame the worker on the picket line.
Hard to make sense of it but that is how it works out.
I am not saying that the consumer is correct in blaming the worker, I am just saying what I think will happen over the next two years based on what has happened in the past.
In such circumstances the Unions and by association the Labour Party will suffer and people will move back to right wing thinking.
I know that this view will be disappointing to your hopes and aspirations but it is my opinion Time will tell.
O and for the record I am a voter in the Republic.

SEVERA

Fitzerb wrote: »

You brought the issues of guns into the debate by suggesting (somehow) that the FF helath policy was like giving a gun to child.

The IRA did give guns to teenagers thats a fact. To me teeangers are children

sorry i picked you up wrong there,
yes this is true the IRA did give guns to teenagers who were members of the IRA, this is no revelation or secret.
it is also true that these young men and women joined the IRA because of continued discrimination and harassment from the British establishment and some protestants in northern ireland and their lives and the lives of their family's were pure hell.
it is well documented why these young men and women joined the IRA, and who is to say what you would do if you had to live under these circumstances.you need enlightenment:)

Dan_Solo

Fitzerb wrote: »

Never even hinted that the Labour party was bought. Follow the thread, I was expressing my views as to how the proposed Government might run into troule.

Alright, let's follow the thread:

Fitzerb wrote: »

My View :The Government will last up to the time when general and widespread industrial unrest becomes an issue. The unrest will be a result of increasing inflation and higher interest rates, while at the same time employers not giving pay increases . Labour will eventually be forced to stand up to the Unions and history tells us that they wont upset their pay masters.

So you "never even hinted that the Labour party was bought" but "they wont upset their pay masters."?? No contradiction there!!!

They're your short and curlies dude. I can tug them all day if it floats your boat.

Dan_Solo

Fitzerb wrote: »

Incorrect , again.

I was and still am defending my right to vote for whoever I wish, regardless of how you see them and that this does not make me or anyone else stupid as you stated.
I made the point (which you totally missed in your rush to insult) that SF/IRA stayed with a failed bombing policy for many many years

Let's do the "make fitzerb look like a fool" dance again, shall we?
You tried and failed to use the example of the IRA's bombing campaign as evidence of their stupidity for "repeating the same thing and expecting the results to be different".
The IRA gave up that campaign. The IRA are not doing the same thing and expecting different results AS YOU CLAIMED.
Now you're in waffle territory as you know you are caught all end up on this.
You lose again. And again. And again...

Fitzerb

SEVERA wrote: »

sorry i picked you up wrong there,
yes this is true the IRA did give guns to teenagers who were members of the IRA, this is no revelation or secret.
it is also true that these young men and women joined the IRA because of continued discrimination and harassment from the British establishment and some protestants in northern ireland and their lives and the lives of their family's were pure hell.
it is well documented why these young men and women joined the IRA, and who is to say what you would do if you had to live under these circumstances.you need enlightenment:)

I in no way condemn any volunteer who took part in the armed struggle to free the six counties, I respect them totally just as I respect the people who made the ultimate but failed sacrifice to free my Country from Brittan by giving of their life. Please do not be so arrogant as to think you know what circumstances I was ever in or what circumstances ever impacted on me and please don’t even suggest to me that I need enlightenment about Northern Ireland
You know nothing about me or my life experiences. Your kind of thinking and total arrogance is one of the reasons I detest this new plastic version of SF

SEVERA

Fitzerb wrote: »

OK I will try and explain in more detail my view.

It is my view that the industrial unrest that may / will happen will not be greeted by people with open arms. This assessment is made from experience. When we have industrial disputes it is amazing how the consumer turns on the worker and blame the worker for taking industrial action. Perhaps you may be lucky enough to be young enough never to have lived through a period of industrial unrest but the tendency in Ireland is that the consumer will blame the worker in the majority of cases. It is actually quite strange really because in some cases while people will not pass the picket they will still blame the worker on the picket line.
Hard to make sense of it but that is how it works out.
I am not saying that the consumer is correct in blaming the worker, I am just saying what I think will happen over the next two years based on what has happened in the past.
In such circumstances the Unions and by association the Labour Party will suffer and people will move back to right wing thinking.
I know that this view will be disappointing to your hopes and aspirations but it is my opinion Time will tell.
O and for the record I am a voter in the Republic.

its food for thought but i think you underestimate whats coming, pickets and civil disputes are too bland and civilised to square this away i mean like the country is still in a state of shock. you have seen nothing yet.

Fitzerb

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Let's do the "make fitzerb look like a fool" dance again, shall we?
You tried and failed to use the example of the IRA's bombing campaign as evidence of their stupidity for "repeating the same thing and expecting the results to be different".
The IRA gave up that campaign. The IRA are not doing the same thing and expecting different results AS YOU CLAIMED.
Now you're in waffle territory as you know you are caught all end up on this.
You lose again. And again. And again...

Can you please please please show me the post where I said the IRA are not doing the same thing and expecting different results. Also please drop your insults it just totally takes away what little credability your argument has.
I have made an honest attempt to explain how and why i think the proposed Government will fail, can you please make the argumnet as to why I may be worng or else leave it. To be honest its like playing handball into a hay stack trying to get an answer for you.
if you think my argument is incorrct please make your point based on the facts or as how you see the facts no the normal SF tripe and slag policy.

SEVERA

Fitzerb wrote: »

I in no way condemn any volunteer who took part in the armed struggle to free the six counties, I respect them totally just as I respect the people who made the ultimate but failed sacrifice to free my Country from Brittan by giving of their life. Please do not be so arrogant as to think you know what circumstances I was ever in or what circumstances ever impacted on me and please don’t even suggest to me that I need enlightenment about Northern Ireland
You know nothing about me or my life experiences. Your kind of thinking and total arrogance is one of the reasons I detest this new plastic version of SF

well i am sorry sir,
its just that at times you do come across as a total airhead but i do apologize if i hurt your feelings it was not my intention. as for the new plastic s/f i am proud to be part of it and will do all that i can to achieve a better and united ireland for all its citizens.

Fitzerb

SEVERA wrote: »

its food for thought but i think you underestimate whats coming, pickets and civil disputes are too bland and civilised to square this away i mean like the country is still in a state of shock. you have seen nothing yet.

If your expecting riots in the streets I think you will be disappointed. The Irish people are very right wing in their thinking and if you study the results of the elections you will see that apart from spots ourside Dublin / Cork and the border areas left wing parties have not gained significant support.
You should also assume that at least 50%+ of that left wing support would not be in agreement with taking to the streets.
Again, its only my view

Fitzerb

SEVERA wrote: »

well i am sorry sir,
its just that at times you do come across as a total airhead but i do apologize if i hurt your feelings it was not my intention. as for the new plastic s/f i am proud to be part of it and will do all that i can to achieve a better and united ireland for all its citizens.

People who have a different view than yours are not air heads. If you really believe in what you are trying to achieve you must try to convert them by solid argument based on that belief.
There is no need apologise I am happy to put forward and defend what I believe in.
If SF policies are what you believe in then you have every right to be a part of it. For me its a failed policy and one that will never bring about an United Ireland.
You live in different times and in time you may see the weakness of their economic policies that in turn will weaken the argument for a united Ireland.
In my view the current thinking of Adams and Co is a total betrayal of the volunteers who gave of their lives.
They did not make that sacrifice for Admas to sit in Dail Eireann,

And please dont call me Sir, Its a title I dont wish to have

SEVERA

Fitzerb wrote: »

I in no way condemn any volunteer who took part in the armed struggle to free the six counties, I respect them totally just as I respect the people who made the ultimate but failed sacrifice to free my Country from Brittan by giving of their life. Please do not be so arrogant as to think you know what circumstances I was ever in or what circumstances ever impacted on me and please don’t even suggest to me that I need enlightenment about Northern Ireland
You know nothing about me or my life experiences. Your kind of thinking and total arrogance is one of the reasons I detest this new plastic version of SF

in fact reading this again i think that you may want to discuss this further if you do just pm me, i think you are a sinn fein supporter at heart and maybe you got into something over your head am i right

LordSutch

I think you all need to chill, take some time out, & quickly go over to the politics forum, where the 2016 government poll is running

Lots of Sinn Fein options there too :eek:

SEVERA

Fitzerb wrote: »

People who have a different view than yours are not air heads. If you really believe in what you are trying to achieve you must try to convert them by solid argument based on that belief.
There is no need apologise I am happy to put forward and defend what I believe in.
And please dont call me Sir, Its a title I dont wish to have

mr
i am too tired to start it all again i must get up for work early, i think you know that i truly believe in what s/f are trying to achieve and i also know that you probably did vote s/f in the last election and will again in the next. your just very angry about something in the past......coladh samh a chara.

Fitzerb

SEVERA wrote: »

in fact reading this again i think that you may want to discuss this further if you do just pm me, i think you are a sinn fein supporter at heart and maybe you got into something over your head am i right

I am a republican and not a SF supported. There is a difference.
While I may not have agreed with some of the tactics used by the IRA I do understand the reasons for their use. However I feel so very sad for the families of people who made the ultimate sacrifice to free Ireland and now find that Adams somehow decided that the tactics were wrong and he is now washing his hands of any responsibility for those tactics. Surely the credible option was to say the tactics of an armed struggle which resulted in the deaths of innocent people had failed and following the GF agreement he should have moved away and allowed a new generation with a new policies to take control. His association with the armed struggle is damaging any chance SF have of serious support in the Republic. His claims not to have ever been a member of the IRA just makes it worse.

SEVERA

LordSutch wrote: »

I think you all need to chill, take some time out, & quickly go over to the politics forum, where the 2016 government poll is running

Lots of Sinn Fein options there too :eek:

awhh lord sutch
what an honour it is to be in your general vicinity again but unfortunatly i can no longer tarry as the sandman bekons, i was having a wonderfull conversation with fitze there until you rudley interupted with some pointless gebberish as usually. why dont you just fukce off back from to where you departed from:D, tally ho old boy

Whatsastory

before the pranksters come out

www.theirishsheeple.webs.com

SEVERA

Whatsastory wrote: »

before the pranksters come out

www.theirishsheeple.webs.com

cool, and very apt name, whats the general idea besides taking the piiss out of the government?