Mother died of hypothermia after council turned heat off

JONJO THE MISER

:mad:http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0129/1224288526625.html
I have never before heard of the likes of this, basically someone needs to be done for manslaughter.

Cheap Thrills!

rip

Goldenegg

This country is getting worse and worse everyday!!!

zero19

Rip poor woman

fonecrusher1

Horrible.

of course such a thread in AH will give someone wanting to look like a cold-hearted nerd cynic an opportunity to get thanks...

Pun on words cold-hearted to be expected unfortunately

Metallergy

bless up

feel like i'm about to meself tbh.. fúck this cut-back shít. you do know that's what they're recommending?!! sooner wrap us up in cotton wool. time for 15 minutes of flame

445279.ie

Horrific stuff

But Bertie's only regret is not leaving a National Stadium behind to mark his legacy :mad:

ibarelycare

Jesus. Not something you'd expect to read in this day and age, and such a young woman Shocking. RIP.

tasha200

ok, no I am sorry, and I am not looking for thanks.....
This mother preserved her two children, who did not die of hyperthermia.. there is something unusual about this story or something that is not being told.. on the same night this mother died there were many many people sleeping on the streets or in and about homeless hostels in ballymun... on the same night there were people in galway, limerick, etc etc.. who have no shelter/heating/home etc....... there is something in this story not being told... yes, the weather was unprecedented, but, in my opinion, for a 30 year old adult human being to die of hypothermia, only due to her heating being cut off, does not ring true.......... one, we all have self preservation in normal state of mind, therefore we would use any means possible to cover ourselves and retain heat... two, her children were with the mother, why wasnt said woman with her mother, three, even with electricity, I had no electricity for over 20 hours over the christmas period, not because i didnt pay the bill, but because of a cut in the supply..... neither me, my partner, or my three children died of hypothermia, noe did the 20 or so estimated homeless people on the streets........ I am in no way trivialising this womans death, but ofcourse there is more to this than a healthy woman, with two children, dying overnight, in shelter, from hypothermia, before people demand trial for manslaughter x

fonecrusher1

tasha200 wrote: »

ok, no I am sorry, and I am not looking for thanks.....
This mother preserved her two children, who did not die of hyperthermia.. there is something unusual about this story or something that is not being told.. on the same night this mother died there were many many people sleeping on the streets or in and about homeless hostels in ballymun... on the same night there were people in galway, limerick, etc etc.. who have no shelter/heating/home etc....... there is something in this story not being told... yes, the weather was unprecedented, but, in my opinion, for a 30 year old adult human being to die of hypothermia, only due to her heating being cut off, does not ring true.......... one, we all have self preservation in normal state of mind, therefore we would use any means possible to cover ourselves and retain heat... two, her children were with the mother, why wasnt said woman with her mother, three, even with electricity, I had no electricity for over 20 hours over the christmas period, not because i didnt pay the bill, but because of a cut in the supply..... neither me, my partner, or my three children died of hypothermia, noe did the 20 or so estimated homeless people on the streets........ I am in no way trivialising this womans death, but ofcourse there is more to this than a healthy woman, with two children, dying overnight, in shelter, from hypothermia, before people demand trial for manslaughter x

I agree with this post. It is highly unusual for a seemingly normal healthy 30 year old woman to die of hypothermia. Not unless she was a very slim built petite woman. Some sort of vital information is being witheld.

Its like these reports of people dying from the flu only to find out later the person already had a serious illness.

We're not getting all the info.

Cheap Thrills!

Whatever the circumstances:

The pathologist found she had suffered hypothermia.

..this happened last January when everyone was caught by suprise by the 3 week long freeze. She sent the kids to her Mothers, maybe there wasn't enough room for her and she wanted to be there to let the people in to deal with re-connecting the heat.

The Doctor for the family said:

this was a case where “a young woman with no other system disorder died of hypothermia”

The inquest seems to be ongoing so more may be revealed, article doesn't mention any verdict.

msg11

Look in this day and age in this country , for anyone homeless or not to die from such a stone age problem is madness. It shouldn't happen ever.

Hidden or not. What has happen here is this, council decided to turn of heating to her flat to save a few euros . Be it a junkie/perfectly fit person this is not on.

The few few euros saved has cost a persons life.

Then add in the condition of the flat ? Was it damp ? Cannot of been that liveable if there was nobody living in the othe flats.

Again, someone trying to save money , and this has backfired on the council in the worst case in that it cost a person there life.

Mahatma coat

edit

Ah it wasnt just Her Flat that was turned off, it seems she was one of only a few occupants in the Flat complex, and the Council turned off the Building.

Still tho

Rather odd that she died, something strange afoot

jimmycrackcorm

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Moral of the Story
Pay your Heating Bill, simple

I don't think it is a simple as that as the flat seems to be part of a communal eating system managed by the council.

However, for a 30 year old to die in a flat of hypothermia says more about that person than anything else.

msg11

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I don't think it is a simple as that as the flat seems to be part of a communal eating system managed by the council.

However, for a 30 year old to die in a flat of hypothermia says more about that person than anything else.

Like what ? Hypothermia can effect anyone. If she was to sweat in her sleep it would cause dampness , causing her body to lose heat trying to heat up the dampness or a bad draught in the room. It can happen to anyone, just cause it hasn't happened to you yet dosen't mean it won't happen . It's a big but seriously avoidable killer, which your body usually tells you about before going into serious shock , in that state your just going to shut down. And on your own if that happens , well your ****ed to be honest.

jimmycrackcorm

msg11 wrote: »

Like what ? Hypothermia can effect anyone.

Nah - once you turn either the ages of 30 or 90 then hypothermia is out to get you...

Otherwise it's the drink and the fags.....

We need to start a tv advertising campaign to protect this country's 30 year olds.

msg11

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Nah - once you turn either the ages of 30 or 90 then hypothermia is out to get you...

Otherwise it's the drink and the fags.....

We need to start a tv advertising campaign to protect this country's 30 year olds.

It's the H1N1 all over again.. We just have to give it a pretty shocking title . Like 30H3 , expect maybe rip them off and call it 70H2 ?

Back on topic folks , nothing to see here. . . Move along now. .

Naikon

Sounds fishy. It's not the antartic we're living. While I accept it's possible someone can die from hypothermia, something else must have been a contributing factor here.

sunflower27

Naikon wrote: »

Sounds fishy. It's not the antartic we're living. While I accept it's possible someone can die from hypothermia, something else must have been a contributing factor here.

I have to say I agree. Why did she not stay with her mum as well? Why switch off the phone on that particular night. I wonder if the poor woman was seriously depressed.

I live in a part of the country that was one of the coldest during the cold spell. I have those really expensive storage heaters and didn't turn them on because, frankly, I am not working at the moment and can't afford them.

I just wore extra clothes and used extra blankets.

Now, in saying that my place is new and double glazed so not sure what state her flat was in.

Yes, it was cold/freezing but I had no problem sleeping without heating once i was rugged up.

Naikon

sunflower27 wrote: »

I have to say I agree. Why did she not stay with her mum as well? Why switch off the phone on that particular night. I wonder if the poor woman was seriously depressed.

I live in a part of the country that was one of the coldest during the cold spell. I have those really expensive storage heaters and didn't turn them on because, frankly, I am not working at the moment and can't afford them.

I just wore extra clothes and used extra blankets.

Now, in saying that my place is new and double glazed so not sure what state her flat was in.

Yes, it was cold/freezing but I had no problem sleeping without heating once i was rugged up.

It's a shame, but yeah, Depression could be the real reason.

sunflower27

She was indoors - in her home - with access presumably to her own bedding plus that of her little kids.

It just doesn't really add up.

Terribly sad story. Those little kids

Naikon

sunflower27 wrote: »

She was indoors - in her home - with access presumably to her own bedding plus that of her little kids.

It just doesn't really add up.

Terribly sad story. Those little kids

I feel bad for the kids too. There are few things as heart wrenching as watching young kids growing up without their parent(s). Tis pretty sad.

mikemac

She was young at 30 and presumably fit.
Very sad

Normally it's the very elderly who die in these situations.

Dublin city coroner Dr Brian Farrell adjourned the inquest until February 24th to get further statements about the coldness of Ms Peavoy’s flat.

I guess more info will be released at a later date

stovelid

Terrible way to die.

I think there may gave been other factors involved. Why would she not stay in her mother's? Maybe there was drugs or a medical condition involved.

Surprised to see RIPs to be honest here given that the story involves the kind of person that's ripped to shreds on an almost daily basis here.

Gulliver

Very sad story. Those poor kids. But, and you can flame me all you want.... why not buy a fan heater, stick to one room and put on extra clothes? There was no mention of the electricity being turned off. A fan heater would only cost the same as two packets of cigarettes.

I know people who have lived in a 40 year old mobile home with no insulation for the past three years while building their house. No central heating, the water was off for 3.5 weeks over the cold snap, they had temps of -7 in their bathroom and bedroom. They used a fan heater in their living area, hot water bottles and an electric blanket in the bedroom and wore extra clothes and they survived.

Whilst I have sympathy for the woman and her family, there is something off here. She just gave up. I see this a lot with people these days - they would rather sit and complain about the situation and wait for someone else to fix it than use their own initiative to achieve a temporary solution in the meantime.

Also, if there was no room, why not just sleep on the floor in the mother's place? Even in the hall?

Why was her heating turned off? If it's a case that she didn't pay, then it's possible the electricity was turned off too, however, as someone pointed out, there was no mention of this. I'm unsure as to how Council houses work, but I presume people pay for heating and electricity? It's a horrible story, but there also has to be some details we're not getting yet; why was the heating cut off? How long was the heating off for before she died?

Just saw it was turned off because:

told the heating would not be turned on as a number of flats around her were empty and because regeneration was ongoing.

That seems cruel and unusual, but it then also raises the question as to why she just didn't get an electric heater?

mikemac

Deleted User wrote: »

Why was her heating turned off?

It's all in the article, nobody said she wasn't paying bills

The inquest heard how Dublin City Council had turned off the heating in Ms Peavoy’s flat. The single mother had contacted the council about it but was told the heating would not be turned on as a number of flats around her were empty and because regeneration was ongoing.

Minister for Housing Noel Ahern who represents the area had gone to the council for the family which was good to see but it seems nothing got sorted

Dyr

The Flats in Ballymun only have heating control for entire blocks and no way for a tenant to regulate heat other than to open a window. The Council turn the heating off/on at specific points in the year. If there's no heating in the flats during a cold spell then they become an ice block. DCC/BRL are trying to empty out all the remaining tenants in the flats around shangan/coultry and this was probably a part of the campaign to force people out.

Last time that I checked there were TD's and councillors who sit on the board of directors in Ballymun Regeneration Limited. I wonder if we'll hear a peep out of them about this?:mad:

Owen

IIRC, in France, you can't evict a tenant who doesn't pay rent in winter, and the utility companies can't shut off supply either.

wyndham

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

:mad ....someone needs to be done for manslaughter.

We could charge them with murder and let them plead down to Man 1. 8-10 minimum security.

Or she could have made herself a cup of tea or gone to somewhere warm, like a 24 hr MacDonalds or the Airport or The €19 per night Ballymun Airport Hotel or her mothers house or a hostel for €10.

Jumpy

wyndham wrote: »

We could charge them with murder and let them plead down to Man 1. 8-10 minimum security.

Or she could have made herself a cup of tea or gone to somewhere warm, like a 24 hr MacDonalds or the Airport or The €19 per night Ballymun Airport Hotel or her mothers house or a hostel for €10.

Look up the side effects of hypothermia.

You feel WARM. Not cold. But dont let ignorance get in the way of a sarcastic comment. :rolleyes:

TeddyTedson

They shouldn't be allowed to turn peoples heat off during Winter.

mickoneill30

It is terrible that she died of hypothermia but it's not totally the councils fault. People need to be able to look after themselves to a certain extent. This doesn't seem to be the case here.
Simple options like staying at her mothers or staying at a friends or getting a couple of hot water bottles weren't used. What did people do before central heating was introduced about 30 years ago?

Other options like calling for help by phone or go to a neighbour weren't used either. I don't know, but I don't think hypothermia is a quick killer so she could have been there several hours while help was available.

She brought her kids to her mothers and told her that her phone would be off. Like the guys mentioned above depression seems like it may have been a factor.

mickydoomsux

This all seems very fishy.

This woman was either a willing victim of our culture of helplessness or she was trying to kill herself.

No one stays in their house during an unprecendented cold-snap after being told beforehand that the heating will be off. Her ditching the kids is odd as well.

Jumpy

I think it needs to be made clear that you do not feel yourself getting hypothermia. By the time you would normally realise something is wrong, your brain would be incapable of processing it properly. It takes another person to recognise hypothermia symptoms.
Also in later stages you would not be protecting yourself due to the fact that you would actually feel overheated.

People do not commit suicide by inducing hypothermia.

It does not take artic conditions for someone to die of this. It is entirely possible she went to sleep and simply didnt wake up.

upandcumming

Jumpy wrote: »

I think it needs to be made clear that you do not feel yourself getting hypothermia. By the time you would normally realise something is wrong, your brain would be incapable of processing it properly. It takes another person to recognise hypothermia symptoms.
Also in later stages you would not be protecting yourself due to the fact that you would actually feel overheated.

People do not commit suicide by inducing hypothermia.

It does not take artic conditions for someone to die of this. It is entirely possible she went to sleep and simply didnt wake up.

Point taken, but would she not have said at one point, "Fuck, this is fierce cold, I'll get a coffee or go to my friend's house."

Caoimhín

Would it be cold hearted to suggest that if she had no obvious physical or psychological problems, why is it societies responsibility to keep her warm?

Run_to_da_hills

RIP.

Prison sentences for manslaughter should be handed down to those responsible.

mickydoomsux

Caoimhín wrote: »

Would it be cold hearted to suggest that if she had no obvious physical or psychological problems, why is it societies responsibility to keep her warm?

As i said before, our culture of helplessness.

maringo

So sorry to read of the tragic death of this young mother from hypothermia in her home. Her family must be devastated.

I'm sure when she decided to stay in her flat herself that night she didn't think she would lose her life. Fear of her home being broken into and wrecked might have made her stay there despite the freezing conditions especially as most of the flats seem to be unlived in. Its a shocking indictment of how people are treated by uncaring officialdom and so sad that these two little boys will have to grow up without their mother.

Caoimhín

maringo wrote: »

Its a shocking indictment of how people are treated by uncaring officialdom

Well what would you suggest then? Maybe employ a public servant of sorts to visit peoples house every night to make sure they are warm and have enough milk and bread?

Guy:Incognito

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

RIP.

Prison sentences for manslaughter should be handed down to those responsible.

That or a dose of realism for the overreactors.

Ghost Train

Sad story, slightly strange for it to happen. Seems the heating was had been an issue for a while. Would wonder why she couldn't go somewhere else or use some other source of heat but maybe she didn't realise how bad it was or her mental state was effected, possibly by the situation.

Council are responsible for the heating so should have done something to help her out when heating had to be shut off

mydearwatson

Jesus this thread is sad.

Chances are that, when the poor woman went to sleep that night, she fully expected to wake up in the morning.

Who knows why she didn't stay at her mother's house, or at a hostel, or wherever else. Perhaps it was out of pride? Stubbornness? At least she made the decision to do the best thing for her children.

But the fact is, if you're going to make a conscious decision to commit suicide (as some are suggesting), you wouldn't count on it "happening" through hypothermia. And there is no suggestion in the Coroner's report that the woman was depressed or suicidal, or that any other factors contributed to her death.

The article does not mention that the women had failed to pay her bills, or anything of the like. It's very easy for us to assume that she was some poor broke alcoholic druggie, who'd spent her last few euro on drink and drugs and cigarettes, rather than to pay the heating. But the cold hard facts known to the public do not suggest that this is the case. The reason that it's an easy assumption to make, however, is because of the "well at least it could never happen to me" mentality.

I know that it could happen to me. I'll readily admit that. I'm lucky enough to be in steady employment, as is my boyfriend. I may have children soon. Say if my circumstances were to change. Say if my boyfriend were to die, or to leave me, and I ended up bringing up children on my own. I could lose my job - anyone could. I have never been dependent on welfare in my life, but it could end up happening that I'd have no choice. There's nothing to indicate that this woman wasn't paying her rent or bills. If the council knowingly allow this to happen to paying tenants, well it could absolutely happen to anyone. It makes me wonder how many other families are living through similar circumstances at the moment.

I don't know the full facts of the case. But I think it's very wrong of anyone to judge the woman in question and to basically suggest that she "deserved" it when they don't know any more facts that I do. And from what I can see, it could very well happen to anyone you know. F*ckin mess of a country.

Queen-Mise

My lord there has been some idiotic comments on this thread about this poor woman's death.

All the comments of: Why didn't she stay in a hostel or go to her mothers? These are all pointless - the girl is dead now. Hindsight doesn't really work in real life.

Again it would seem fairly obvious to me - that if a 30 year old woman thought she was going to die of hypothermia she would have left the flat.

I'd imagine that she had electric heaters on, maybe hot-water bottles etc. The temperature in the flat would have dropped to -10ish (temperatures were very low at the time). An hour or two is enough for hypothermia to set in. And of course as already mentioned - she would have felt warm and not have realised it. Fell asleep and never woke up.

And as for comments that it is not society's responsibility to look after the weaker members of that society. That frankly is the most idiotic of all the comments. If it is not society's responsibility to look after their weaker members: then who's is it?

I am not a lawyer etc etc - but I would hazard an opinion that the City Council does bear some responsibility for this girl's death. The heating turned off in the entire complex. Was there secondary sources, an open fire, for example? The only alternative this woman would have is electric heating - and that is not adequate for heating a flat with two children, nevermind the cost of doing so.

This is a tragic death as much as any of the high profile deaths we here about also.


EDIT: Thank god her children were with her mother - otherwise they could have been three deaths in the flat that night. I wonder would all the comments on this thread have been different if that was the case.

Caoimhín

Queen-Mise wrote: »

My lord there has been some idiotic comments on this thread about this poor woman's death.


And as for comments that it is not society's responsibility to look after the weaker members of that society. That frankly is the most idiotic of all the comments. If it is not society's responsibility to look after their weaker members: then who's is it?

It is indeed a tragedy, nobody is suggesting otherwise. I reacted to the daft comments that others should be found guilty of manslaughter.

I am of the opinion that the old, the sick or the vulnerable in our society should be helped. I suppose where we might disagree is on exactly who in our society is weaker and to what extent they should be helped.

BostonB

The inquest heard how Dublin City Council had turned off the heating in Ms Peavoy’s flat. The single mother had contacted the council about it but was told the heating would not be turned on as a number of flats around her were empty and because regeneration was ongoing.

I think you'd need to know the details of that process before commenting.

You'd also need to know why that mother felt she need to be in the house, instead of at her mothers.

Very sad.

Oranage2

The fact that people are dying of hypothermia is a very scary reflection of how times are and really this shouldn't happen!

So sad for her family and her young children.

mickydoomsux

Oranage2 wrote: »

The fact that people are dying of hypothermia is a very scary reflection of how times are and really this shouldn't happen!

So sad for her family and her young children.

Well "people" didn't die, a person died. Also the times we're in didn't cause the unprecedented cold weather.

There's more to this story than what's been published so far.

AckwelFoley

mickydoomsux wrote: »

This all seems very fishy.

This woman was either a willing victim of our culture of helplessness or she was trying to kill herself.

No one stays in their house during an unprecendented cold-snap after being told beforehand that the heating will be off. Her ditching the kids is odd as well.

Aye.

To me this story reads that she was in an apt in a building the council want to vacate, and she wont move else where, i guarentee she was given plenty of notice, but because the apts are centrally heated as bambi said, they have to probably heat 10 of them to heat hers as well.

She probably was afraid the council would move in if she moved for the cold snap.

Either way, kids without a mother is sad, but there is more to this story than the headline suggests

Caoimhín

mickydoomsux wrote: »

There's more to this story than what's been published so far.

Well to come to that conclusion, you would need to think rationally and maybe look for another article or another source before coming to (or not) an informed conclusion.

Ah feck it, just go onto Boards and demand that the authorities be found guilty of manslaughter.