The Secret Footballer - What Players Really Think Of Pundits

cson

fulhamfanincork wrote: »

Oh please, it's a chant.

A chant that single handedly manages to offend on a religious, sexual and racial level. Quite an accomplishment.

And tbqh it's not a 'chant' its a pretty sick slur that stops about a yard short of a primitive '**** you gay ******'.

fulhamfanincork

cson wrote: »

A chant that single handedly manages to offend on a religious, sexual and racial level. Quite an accomplishment.

And tbqh it's not a 'chant' its a pretty sick slur that stops about a yard short of a primitive '**** you gay ******'.

if you're offended by a chant at a football match, then god help us all.

stumpypeeps

fulhamfanincork wrote: »

if you're offended by a chant at a football match, then god help us all.

No, god help you that you don't find that offensive. Civilisation is waiting for you with open arms, embrace it.

fulhamfanincork

stumpypeeps wrote: »

No, god help you that you don't find that offensive. Civilisation is waiting for you with open arms, embrace it.

so instead of chanting that what are they meant to chant?

"Campbell Campbell we are annoyed with you..."

Nothing wrong with the chant. Sure even the "races" it "targets" probably join in the chanting like.

MrStuffins

fulhamfanincork wrote: »

so instead of chanting that what are they meant to chant?

"Campbell Campbell we are annoyed with you..."

Nothing wrong with the chant. Sure even the "races" it "targets" probably join in the chanting like.

chant whatever you want? Chant the official song of your club, chant the unofficial song of your club, chant a funny song, chant whatever. Vile disgusting chants are not the only chants that exist you know.

You wouldn't say such things to a friend, to a collegue, to a family member, not even to a person in the street............ so what makes you think it's ok to say it to a footballer? Because there's another few hundred knuckle-dragging evolutionary rejects chanting too? :rolleyes:

fulhamfanincork

MrStuffins wrote: »

chant whatever you want?

You're contradicting yourself there. If you say we should chant whatever we want and then go on to say that they shouldn't chant that.

lordgoat

fulhamfanincork wrote: »

You're contradicting yourself there. If you say we should chant whatever we want and then go on to say that they shouldn't chant that.

I think the question mark at the end of what he said means he's ,eh..., questioning that you can chant whatever you want.

Seriously though do you not have a problem with that chant?

Also Campbell, caaaaaampbell we're annoyed with you, would be a savage chant. imo

3hn2givr7mx1sc

fulhamfanincork wrote: »

so instead of chanting that what are they meant to chant?

"Campbell Campbell we are annoyed with you..."

Nothing wrong with the chant. Sure even the "races" it "targets" probably join in the chanting like.

"Who's that twat from Argentina? Who's that money grabbing whore? Carlos Tevez is his name and he hasn't got a barain 'cos he won't be winning trophies anymore."

There's a chant which gives across the message without racial or homophobic undertones.

MrStuffins

fulhamfanincork wrote: »

You're contradicting yourself there. If you say we should chant whatever we want and then go on to say that they shouldn't chant that.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

So you think it's ok to use racist, homophobic and derogatory language to abuse someone, simply because they left one employer to go work for another?

Would you do this is your local Check-Out lady moved from working in her local Tesco to the Superquinn down the road?

What gives you the right to think you can abuse people in this way?

parker kent

jackthelad321 wrote: »

I'm not impressed by this article, feels like too many Guardian blogs of late. Does anyone else feel as I do?

I thought it was excellent. On a wider note, The Guardian still do the best football coverage in my view. I'd ignore people on here equating things on Twitter or said on a Podcast with what is actually in the newspaper.

tommyhaas wrote: »

Sol gets abuse off Spurs cos he fcuked off to Arsenal. Thats fair enough IMO, similarly Tevez getting abuse off Utd, or Rooney at Everton. Obviously the above example is way OTT

Football fans need to cop on in my view. Chants like the one about Sol Campbell, players families etc are disgusting. It is never fair or OK to sing about what some fans sing. I don't care what player changes to what team, they never deserve that sort sort of abuse. A bit of booing or ironic cheering perhaps, but not that sort of shít.

Edit: Oh and on topic, I like TSF. It's a great insight and whoever it is seems to have their head screwed on. I even got a reply about Torres on his Twitter account.

fulhamfanincork

MrStuffins wrote: »

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

So you think it's ok to use racist, homophobic and derogatory language to abuse someone, simply because they left one employer to go work for another?

Would you do this is your local Check-Out lady moved from working in her local Tesco to the Superquinn down the road?

What gives you the right to think you can abuse people in this way?

You're simplifying it too much. People have an unrivaled passion for football clubs, not for shopping markets.

However yes I do do it to my local Check Out Lady. The judas moved a year ago but that hasn't detered me from heckling her when she's at the till.

But seriously the chant is over the top and racist and whatever race that it is but it is a football match. Surely the song wouldn't be sung if the majority felt like you?

Pro. F

tommyhaas wrote: »

I honestly dont know was it racist or homophobic. My point related to the fact that he was getting abuse not because of his skin colour or sexuality, but because he left the club for rivals. The nature of the abuse relating to either his race or sexuality is of course out of line, but would not have occured had he not left Spurs in that manner. Did any other black players receive racial abuse that day? At certain clubs however, the fans will abuse players for reasons relating only to their skin colour/religion. Im not making any reference to homophobia, simply because there are no openly gay footballers in England and hence no examples to cite

Racial, homophobic and secterian abuse are all completly out of order. What the Spurs fans were singing was a disgrace, but the abuse relating to his skin colour/sexuality (which ever it related to) stemmed from the fact he left for Arsenal, and I believe this because I dont know of any other recent cases where black players were racially abused at White Heart Lane. I'm not in anyway condoning the chant, I dont understand why people are so keen to insist that I am

Is it okay that the Spurs fans were chanting racist and homophobic abuse? No, of course it isn't. So you should stop making excuses for them. It doesn't matter if you think some fans are worse. The Spurs fans should still be condemned unreservedly. There is no need for you to provide context because there could be no excuse that would justify that chant.

fulhamfanincork wrote: »

Oh please, it's a chant.

fulhamfanincork wrote: »

Nothing wrong with the chant.

So you are a racist and homophobe then?

fulhamfanincork wrote: »

Sure even the "races" it "targets" probably join in the chanting like.

What evidence do you have for that ridiculous claim?

K-9

Times change though and things do become unacceptable, even in football.

What went on in the late 70's and early 80's isn't acceptable any more. Racist, rioting and sectarian stuff.

There are still taboo subjects left, homosexuality is the obvious one.

We shouldn't remove the craic and the banter that crowds generate but there is a certain type of mob mentality that segregation fosters. Often things you wouldn't entertain personally become acceptable because the mob is singing it. That's the inherent danger and people should be aware of it and club loyalty shouldn't blind you on it.

bamboozling

baz2009 wrote: »

"Who's that twat from Argentina? Who's that money grabbing whore? Carlos Tevez is his name and he hasn't got a barain 'cos he won't be winning trophies anymore."

There's a chant which gives across the message without racial or homophobic undertones.

While not strictly racial it is almost xenophobic. What has the fact that he's Argentinian got to do with it.

It's not needed for the rhyming of the chant and gives off xenophobic undertones in my opinion.

Paparazzo

fulhamfanincork wrote: »

if you're offended by a chant at a football match, then god help us all.

You're talking out your arse. Is the chant dreamers said about slagging off a players downs syndrome son that was seriously ill ok? What about when a few Shamrock Rovers fans (only a couple of fans btw) that were chanting about Drogheda's Simon Webb, about his wife who had died of cancer a couple of months earlier? From what you're saying it's ok because it's a rival club and the insult is the format of a chant.

kryogen

Some chants are out of order and disgusting, I dont think Im being over sensitive that it bothers me when i hear ***** singing about the munich disaster

K-9

kryogen wrote: »

Some chants are out of order and disgusting, I dont think Im being over sensitive that it bothers me when i hear ***** singing about the munich disaster

Definitely not, nor Hillsborough songs. People like that generally aren't "fans", they define themselves by hatred of the "other" club not love of their club. It's just a chance to spout bile and the club they support is irrelevant. I suppose the hooligans had to go somewhere.

I find the mob mentality thing fascinating.

MrStuffins

fulhamfanincork wrote: »

But seriously the chant is over the top and racist and whatever race that it is but it is a football match. Surely the song wouldn't be sung if the majority felt like you?

Er, yes it would! I think you'll find i'm in the majority who are not racist and homophobic!

In the football stadium like White Hart Lane, there's somrthing like 36000 capacity. For the majority to sing, you're trying to tell me that ,pre than 18000 people sing that to Sol Campbell? Not a hope and you know it!

Just the knuckle-draggers my friend! if you want to be part of that, fine! But that means you are part of that group we like to call "scum"

pickarooney

bamboozling wrote: »

While not strictly racial it is almost xenophobic. What has the fact that he's Argentinian got to do with it.

It's not needed for the rhyming of the chant and gives off xenophobic undertones in my opinion.

In fairness, without the nationality the chant could refer to about 27 Man City players. If their names were Carlos Tevez.

MrStuffins

Great article in The Guardian here about Anton Hysen, the world's only openly gay footballer!

Apparently Gordon Taylor wouldn't find any footballers who wanted to front the FA's Anti-Homophobia campain

But I was especially disgusted by the revelation of a chant which Ipswich fans still sing

"He's gay, he's dead, he's hanging in the shed, Fashanu, Fashanu"...... it's.......... beyond words!

tommyhaas

parker kent wrote: »

Chants like the one about Sol Campbell, players families etc are disgusting. It is never fair or OK to sing about what some fans sing. I don't care what player changes to what team, they never deserve that sort sort of abuse. A bit of booing or ironic cheering perhaps, but not that sort of shít.

I dont know why you quoted me with that because Iv said nothing contrdictory to your point. Iv said numerous times that the abuse Campell received was out of order

Pro. F wrote: »

Is it okay that the Spurs fans were chanting racist and homophobic abuse? No, of course it isn't. So you should stop making excuses for them. It doesn't matter if you think some fans are worse. The Spurs fans should still be condemned unreservedly. There is no need for you to provide context because there could be no excuse that would justify that chant.

Provide context? If you bothered reading the thread you would see that my initial point on the issue related to the context in which a poster described the chant, hence why I quoted the his reaction as oppose to the chant itself in my reply. How can you participate in a discussion based on context and then rule it out as a means of arguement? In no instance have I defended the chant, nor would I attempt to do so, my point's were simply that contrary to what a previous poster said, I do not think it would be considered the most disguisting thing Iv ever read.

Secondly, that I believed its fair enough to give players who have deflected to rival clubs a bad reception when they return, however I never for a second attempt this as justification for the Campell chant, nor would I have

parker kent

tommyhaas wrote: »

I dont know why you quoted me with that because Iv said nothing contrdictory to your point. Iv said numerous times that the abuse Campell received was out of order

You said as follows:

tommyhaas wrote: »

Ah come on, its not that bad. Im not defending it,its bang out of order, but the Spurs fans hate him because he's a Judas to them, which is fair enough, the HIV reference is out of order obviously but you hear worse from the likes of Zenit St Petersburg/Rangers etc where the hatred is based on skin colour/religion/nationality etc as oppose to personality

Despite your contradictory follow up sentence, you are attempting to say it wasn't that bad. When in fact it is as disgusting a chant as there can be about anybody. My post says that it is never OK to chant like that about player, regardless of his club history. You tried to explain it as understandable because to Spurs fans he is a "Judas".

tommyhaas

parker kent wrote: »

Despite your contradictory follow up sentence, you are attempting to say it wasn't that bad. When in fact it is as disgusting a chant as there can be about anybody. My post says that it is never OK to chant like that about player, regardless of his club history. You tried to explain it as understandable because to Spurs fans he is a "Judas".

Yes, relative to the most disguisting thing I have ever read, which was the quote I replied to

The reason I qouted the response to the chant as oppose to the chant itself was that my point was the isint as bad as the most disguisting thing I have ever read. Open a newspaper, sexual assalts, killings in Libya, Tsunami in Japan, to me these are all worse. I didnt say the chant initself wasent that bad, relative to the standard chanting, its completly out of order

Iv never said its ok to to sing chants like that at players, just that players returning to former clubs may in certain cases (Tevez, Campell, Figo etc) deserve to get a bad reception, however I never put this forward as justification for what was sung to Campell, nor did I say that what the Spurs fans did was justified. I stated that clearly the move was what motivated the Spurs fans to sing the chant, not his race and that while he did deserve a bad reception, the Spurs fans went too far.

parker kent

tommyhaas wrote: »

The reason I qouted the response to the chant as oppose to the chant itself was that my point was the isint as bad as the most disguisting thing I have ever read. Open a newspaper, sexual assalts, killings in Libya, Tsunami in Japan, to me these are all worse. I didnt say the chant initself wasent that bad, relative to the standard chanting, its completly out of order

Iv never said its ok to to sing chants like that at players, just that players returning to former clubs may in certain cases (Tevez, Campell, Figo etc) deserve to get a bad reception, however I never put this forward as justification for what was sung to Campell, nor did I say that what the Spurs fans did was justified. I stated that clearly the move was what motivated the Spurs fans to sing the chant, not his race and that while he did deserve a bad reception, the Spurs fans went too far.

Ah come on, nobody here is saying a chant is worse than anything you mention. That is a ridiculous argument. There is no need to bring such issues into this thread. But the chant is up there with the most disgusting things you could say to a person. Note "say". I'm not saying it is the most disgusting thing a person can read, just that it is up there with the most disgusting things one person could say to another. For it to be not just one person, but a large crowd makes it worse in that it is not just a single idiot.

My point is simple, fans need to take a look at their behaviour. Tevez, Campbell and Figo just changed employers. They don't deserve the abuse they get. Nor do any footballers. Playful ribbing and sporting banter is one thing. But watch the crowd behind any away footballer when they take a throw or corner. It's ridiculous the abuse they get. The Campbell chant is the height of such terrible behaviour. It is obviously not a societal problem, not just a football problem. But it seems that normal respect goes out the window at football games.

tommyhaas

parker kent wrote: »

Ah come on, nobody here is saying a chant is worse than anything you mention. That is a ridiculous argument. There is no need to bring such issues into this thread.

This is the quote to which I was replying:

Neil3030 wrote: »

This is quite possibly the most disgusting thing I have ever read.

My response related to this, hence why I was providing the context. The worst thing ''I have ever read''.My point was fairly simple, you read about worse things in the paper everyday, that dosent take away from what was sung about Campell, or make it any better. It was never my point to the defend the chant

parker kent wrote: »

But the chant is up there with the most disgusting things you could say to a person. Note "say". I'm not saying it is the most disgusting thing a person can read, just that it is up there with the most disgusting things one person could say to another. For it to be not just one person, but a large crowd makes it worse in that it is not just a single idiot.

Yea I agree

Neil3030 wrote: »

My point is simple, fans need to take a look at their behaviour. Tevez, Campbell and Figo just changed employers. They don't deserve the abuse they get. Nor do any footballers. Playful ribbing and sporting banter is one thing. But watch the crowd behind any away footballer when they take a throw or corner. It's ridiculous the abuse they get. The Campbell chant is the height of such terrible behaviour. It is obviously not a societal problem, not just a football problem. But it seems that normal respect goes out the window at football games.

Yea I agree with most of what your saying, however moving between Barca & Real, or Utd and Citeh isint like moving from Tesco's to Dunnes. Obviously football is a business but I dont think the two can be comparred. Im not saying Figo deserved to get a pigs head thrown at him, nor Campell have that chanted at him, but I do believe the deserve a hard time when they go back, as Rooney receives at Goodison and Tevez at Old Trafford

missingtime

Another article up today:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/apr/09/secret-footballer-respect-referees


After reading it check the second comment left below.

Paully D

Who is the secret footballer?

http://www.whoisthesecretfootballer.co.uk/index.php/what-we-know/

Paully D

Was bored earlier and after seeing a post in the off topic thread asking who the secret football was, I decided I'd try and cut it down a bit in seeing who it is and with the ''whoisthesecretfootballer'' wesbite posted above.

The answer I came up with was Nicky Shorey for a few reasons:

He says he played with either Bikey or Odemwingie (an African who has played in Russia and been subject to racism over there)

He's played with a newly promoted club

He has been relegated with a team he said had done enough to stay up but a few things cost them including a poor goalkeeping kick which cost them a win near the end of the season (I seem to recall Hannemahn making a hash of a clearance near the end of the season when Reading went down)

He was on a wage of around £25,000 a week

After relegation he left a team and he was sold back to the Premier League in a move he regretted/that didn't work out

He is now playing with a different Premier League team to the one he joined after relegation

Played for a manager who he described as being brilliant but who lost the dressing room near the end of his reign

Anyone else think it could be Shorey then?

invinciblePRSTV

I thought TSF was a byline name for different players?

Paully D

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

I thought TSF was a byline name for different players?

To be honest it could well be a compendium of players based on interviews on different subjects by the writer. If not I think Shorey fits the bill though!

G.K.

There are several things he might not fit though - I don't think he's moved on deadlien day for instance.

http://www.whoisthesecretfootballer.co.uk/index.php/what-we-know/

Paully D

G.K. wrote: »

There are several things he might not fit though - I don't think he's moved on deadlien day for instance.

http://www.whoisthesecretfootballer.co.uk/index.php/what-we-know/

Well, it looks like my career as a detective is on hold :pac:

Joe Cole by any chance?

PhlegmyMoses

I sometimes wonder whether it's more enjoyable playing lower down the leagues.

This suggests that he may never have played lower league football, ruling Shorey out.

It could just mean that he hasn't made his mind up about which is better, though.

G.K.

Never played for a newly promoted club, but fits a lot of the boxes.

Jax Teller

G.K. wrote: »

Never played for a newly promoted club, but fits a lot of the boxes.

Reading ?

Ah you meant Joe Cole Nevermind

greendom

I reckon it might be Kevin Davies of Bolton.

LimGal

[U[/U]

jackthelad321 wrote: »

I agree with some previous poster(s), my instinct was it would be a big club player, as the writer seemed to be very proud of playing at such a top level and I imagine a big club player would feel it within his rights to comment. Also most probably a defender, or defensive minded player, as the analysis seemed to lean towards that. It's very well written, again I think even a professional writer would have to edit and tighten a piece up to make it flow, so I would expect an editior at the guardian or someone had alook over it just to tighten up some grammar and all that stuff. I think if the player is still playing he's 30 or over, or just recently retired.

for a guess i'd go with someone like Ryan Giggs or Frank Lampard. Seem like lads with good morals and also good readers of the game. Though Lampard implying his cousin is a twonk might be a little unlikely.

wouldn't it be great if it turned out to be someone who really really seems retarded, like Rooney or Diouf (if he's still in the league somewhere)

EDIT: I have to laugh at my choice of ''defensive'' minded players. Oh lord.

LOL at the ''seems like lads with good morals'':D

kitakyushu

G.K. wrote: »

There are several things he might not fit though - I don't think he's moved on deadlien day for instance.

http://www.whoisthesecretfootballer.co.uk/index.php/what-we-know/

If that info is accurate surely there can't be that many current English prem players who played with Paolo Di Canio?

Mushy

kitakyushu wrote: »

If that info is accurate surely there can't be that many current English prem players who played with Paolo Di Canio?

I'm think it could be Frank Lampard, but the whole wife thing isn't adding up I don't think.

eagle eye

Peter Crouch ticks a lot of boxes, wife, daughter, played for in a releagation battle, English and England international, he has a deadline day transfer as well but I think that was after the article where he said he transferred on deadline day.

Paully D

eagle eye wrote: »

Peter Crouch ticks a lot of boxes, wife, daughter, played for in a releagation battle, English and England international, he has a deadline day transfer as well but I think that was after the article where he said he transferred on deadline day.

I get the impression from Crouch that he wouldn't be able to spell footballer, never mind pen a column in The Guardian

Samich

Kevin Davies I reckon too.

Samich

The manager at the time “sat (the players) down to watch a montage of their best pieces from the season

Sam Allardyce didn't once do this before playing M'bro' on the last day of the season did he?

He played with “a striker who refused to move unless the pass went exactly where he wanted it”

Anelka?

Played for one manager for a long time who was seen as a great before ‘losing it’

Referring to Big Sam at Bolton and then at Blackburn?

There’s a striking clause in my Premier League contract” – Seems to be talking in the present tense so we can pretty much assume he is a current Premier League player.

Likely to be playing in the Pl and he's an older player, rules out Shorey?

DM_7

Samich wrote: »

Kevin Davies I reckon too.

He played for Chesterfield. Well aware of lower league life.

Paully D

Kevin Davies is a good shout.

It's probably just a journalist making up stuff on the back of old material from interviews though.

greendom

DM-ICE wrote: »

He played for Chesterfield. Well aware of lower league life.

Oh I missed that - did he say he wasn't ?

Samich

I think it absolutely must be Joe Cole. He ticks all the boxes. Played for a newly promoted team (West Ham), played under Harry Redknapp, is white, has a contract under a PL club, although he is not playing for it now, has been transferred in the deadline day, has had a big transfer (to Chelsea or to Liverpool) followed by a small transfer this season, has a daughter, has grown up in Islington, a very multicultural neighbourhood, has played for Hodgson (who must have lost the dressing room)… If you look at it, there’s no-one else who is an ideal fit.

.

DM_7

greendom wrote: »

Oh I missed that - did he say he wasn't ?

Just going by one of the posts above where he said he wondered what it would be like playing in the lower leagues

DM_7

Paully D wrote: »

It's probably just a journalist making up stuff on the back of old material from interviews though.

Yeah the whole thing could be a carny style work!

Samich

Could be a number of different players too?