Who do you plan to vote for?!

catbear

For what it's worth I'll support labour in this election for one reason only. Even if they could not finger it exactly, they were aware of the risk of giving the basket cases irish banks a blank check with no strings attached and only good faith as a bond. They voted against that bailout when everyone including SF did.

I may not agree with everything on their agenda but their refusal to blindly trust the banks is the closest any party comes to my own personal values.

BTW, I heard a funny slogan that turns things on their head "Vote SF, get the 26 counties back".

Captain Havoc

DerryRed wrote: »

I'm involved in a number of committees and voluntary organisations, and it's been my experience that the people who make the most noise (especially when things are going wrong) are the same people who are aren't prepared to give up their time to contribute to the fixing of the issues, and ensuring that they don't happen again.

Yep, couldn't agree more but talk is cheap.

DerryRed

Captain Havoc wrote: »

Yep, couldn't agree more but talk is cheap.

Talk certainly is cheap, and that's the problem, and if only a small percentage of those who complain about not having a choice were to take action, then I'm sure there would be greater choice at the next elections.

Will it happen? I doubt it. At the next election we'll be hearing the same moans.

Davidian_ie

DerryRed wrote: »

Talk certainly is cheap, and that's the problem, and if only a small percentage of those who complain about not having a choice were to take action, then I'm sure there would be greater choice at the next elections.

Will it happen? I doubt it. At the next election we'll be hearing the same moans.

Do people in an open democracy not have a right to moan also?The whole process is a sham and the problem starts at council level.The need for councillors has to be removed first before any change can take place higher up the chain.All these councillors out canvassing for their chosen T.D aren't doing it to stay healthy.Do I need to elaborate more on this?

DerryRed

Davidian_ie wrote: »

Do people in an open democracy not have a right to moan also?The whole process is a sham and the problem starts at council level.The need for councillors has to be removed first before any change can take place higher up the chain.All these councillors out canvassing for their chosen T.D aren't doing it to stay healthy.Do I need to elaborate more on this?

Absolutely, everyone is entitled to have a moan. But there is a time for moaning, and a time for taking action. I think the time to end moaning is rapidly approaching, and the time for action is upon us.

I agree with you about reform being needed. Not sure if we'll get rid of councilors as a group. What I'd like to see, is the focus of TDs being on national issues instead of local issues. Since I've moved to Kilkenny I've seen elected TDs get involved in issues, that really should have been left to councilors.

Davidian_ie

DerryRed wrote: »

Absolutely, everyone is entitled to have a moan. But there is a time for moaning, and a time for taking action. I think the time to end moaning is rapidly approaching, and the time for action is upon us.

I agree with you about reform being needed. Not sure if we'll get rid of councilors as a group. What I'd like to see, is the focus of TDs being on national issues instead of local issues. Since I've moved to Kilkenny I've seen elected TDs get involved in issues, that really should have been left to councilors.

What is the point of hiring people to work in and run councils, if you need to bring in a group of councillors to interfere in the way it is run? What qualifies them to give any input.Below is a list of the councillors for Kilkenny but unfortunately unlike other councils it fails to list their occupations.

http://www.kilkennycoco.ie/eng/Contact_Us/Your%20County%20Councillor/

If I wanted a road to be built, the last thing I would want is say a farmer dictating how it should be built or what course it should take. If the majority of these councillors applied for positions within the council, how many would actually have a qualification suited to this area?

Those people on that list are probably costing the people and businesses of Kilkenny approx €2 million in expenses.Reduce that expense and it would go some way to reducing rates for business people trying to stay afloat.It's a myth that we need them.The Council hires people to do a job,they should be allowed to carry it out unhindered and be accountable for their actions an decisions.This idea that we need unqualified people to keep the whole system in check is a farce and a corrupted one at that.They are unnecessary middle men.

catbear

Getting rid off certain people will not solve this problem, it's a values problem.

From what I hard there are still too many people who believe that their rights are everyone elses responsibility.

I fear for real change to happen things have to get a lot worse. There was too much acceptance of the return of emigration as natural, it's a default setting that a large portion of the electorate are programmed to accept.

I fear this election is irrelevant for real change. So many believe getting FF out is the end of our woes, it's only the beginning of the end. The pot is boiling and the lip is jumping.

insight_man

catbear wrote: »

Getting rid off certain people will not solve this problem, it's a values problem.

From what I hard there are still too many people who believe that their rights are everyone elses responsibility.

I fear for real change to happen things have to get a lot worse. There was too much acceptance of the return of emigration as natural, it's a default setting that a large portion of the electorate are programmed to accept.

I fear this election is irrelevant for real change. So many believe getting FF out is the end of our woes, it's only the beginning of the end. The pot is boiling and the lip is jumping.

Couldn't agree with you more. If people only switch FF& G for FG & lab they are in for a shock. If that happens then people really haven't suffered enough yet hard as that is to believe.

We have the 4 parties together pretty much and then we have SF offering a different practical costed approach. When the country is still knackered in a few years time, and everyone will moan about how terrible everything it will be their own fault.

People who want real change and a radical shake up must vote for SF if they don't they deserve whats coming for the next 5 or 10 years. Maybe then they will be ready to change but too late for the thousands of innocent people who will suffer in the meantime

insight_man

DerryRed wrote: »

Talk certainly is cheap, and that's the problem, and if only a small percentage of those who complain about not having a choice were to take action, then I'm sure there would be greater choice at the next elections.

Will it happen? I doubt it. At the next election we'll be hearing the same moans.

yep talk is cheap. Thats why actions speak louder than words. SF TD's take home the average industrial wage. Do anyone think will FG, FF or LAB TD's do the same? They don't and won't for sure. They are all in it for the money no matter how much rubbish talk they come out with about everyone sharing the burden.

None of them will have to live on €198 per week social welfare or accept the miserable €7.65 per hour new minimum wage. They are all money grabbers you only have to look at their so called wages for the last few years or go back as far as you like. Every year you'll find the same, loads of money, money, money.

Their big defence was 'if you don't pay high money the best people won't go into politics' or 'if you pay peanuts you'll get monkeys'. Look at the monkeys we got! Well just look at the mess they have made of the country. Personal gain is the motivation for the vast majority of TD's. Don't vote for anyone who wants to 'serve' the country for more than the average industrial wage.

Remember there are the big expenses to go with the wage so overall a very nice income evry year. The Irish people need to wake up now that they have a chance on 25th. If any candidate calls to your door ask them straight out if they are willing to accept the average industrial wage. If they are not they don't deserve any support

thetonynator

insight_man wrote: »

We have the 4 parties together pretty much and then we have SF offering a different practical costed approach. When the country is still knackered in a few years time, and everyone will moan about how terrible everything it will be their own fault.

We have 4 parties being realistic, and SF with a ridiculous plan, that they have no idea how to finance. Their plans involve spending the Pension reserve fund at least 5 times over, and they expect that they can increase expenditure, burn the bondholders and then in about 16 months time, go back begging to the market and expect them to loan to us so we can run a huge budget deficit, and they expect it for under 6%. They know their policies are ridiculous, but they also know that people like you will vote for them because they are painting a lovely picture of how they are going to solve all our problems with some made up money.

catbear

Odd as it may sound up until the government enslaves the Irish citizenry with the bank debts, the bond holder had expected to get burned. Up until the guarantee many were trying to get 50 cent to the euro back, but then Lenny said no, the Irish taxpayer will reward your bad investment.

And so here we are. The system isn't clear of the cosy culture that inflated the property bubble and so with that in mind outside investors have no interest putting anymore money into a rigged market like ireland.

We've been enslaved by those elected to serve us. The bailout was not motivated by bondholders, it was a political decision to save those with vast property interests. NAMA is the Galway tent moved to the department of finance.

Anyway the same incompetence that gave us NAMA underestimated the scale of the problem and so the IMF had to be invited in to suspend economic collapse. Fianna Fail knew it was wrong at the time, they ignored advice we payed 7 million for because it's party first, nation second.

As it stands bondholders will be taking a haircut, they were never going to share their profit with us so we should not share their loss. A bankrupt consumer isn't good for anyones business.

insight_man

thetonynator wrote: »

We have 4 parties being realistic, and SF with a ridiculous plan, that they have no idea how to finance. Their plans involve spending the Pension reserve fund at least 5 times over, and they expect that they can increase expenditure, burn the bondholders and then in about 16 months time, go back begging to the market and expect them to loan to us so we can run a huge budget deficit, and they expect it for under 6%. They know their policies are ridiculous, but they also know that people like you will vote for them because they are painting a lovely picture of how they are going to solve all our problems with some made up money.

In all honesty your analysis just shows how little you know and clearly you don't examine each parties policies in detail. You are like most people and take your information from the media as its reported and you are parroting the same line as FF who have bankrupted this country so who are they to talk down to anyone.

For your information Paul Krugman a Nobel Prize winner for economics and a leading light in world wide analysis says what SF are saying. We should not pay the gambling debts of billionaires by forcing the debts onto ordinary people. Simply as that!!

If you bet €10 on a horse in any bookie office and the horse lost, do you think you could go back and get your money back plus some interest? If you're honest with yourself you know you couldn't. 36 Billion euro of gamblers debt by the way is the amount wr're talking about...36 BILLION EURO.

YOU might be willing or foolish enough to take on this debt for yourself, you're family and children and grandchildren but I'm certainly not.

All the while massive cuts and pain is the order of the day for the next 5 or 6 years for all us ordinary people while all the politicians who support these cuts are safe and sound with their big pay packets, big mercs and big expenses.

It's time to wake up!!

insight_man

catbear wrote: »

Odd as it may sound up until the government enslaves the Irish citizenry with the bank debts, the bond holder had expected to get burned. Up until the guarantee many were trying to get 50 cent to the euro back, but then Lenny said no, the Irish taxpayer will reward your bad investment.

And so here we are. The system isn't clear of the cosy culture that inflated the property bubble and so with that in mind outside investors have no interest putting anymore money into a rigged market like ireland.

We've been enslaved by those elected to serve us. The bailout was not motivated by bondholders, it was a political decision to save those with vast property interests. NAMA is the Galway tent moved to the department of finance.

Anyway the same incompetence that gave us NAMA underestimated the scale of the problem and so the IMF had to be invited in to suspend economic collapse. Fianna Fail knew it was wrong at the time, they ignored advice we payed 7 million for because it's party first, nation second.

As it stands bondholders will be taking a haircut, they were never going to share their profit with us so we should not share their loss. A bankrupt consumer isn't good for anyones business.

Spot on on your analysis. Gombeen politicians being voted in by gombeen people who clearly haven't suffered enough. If the polls are to be believed the same will happen again at this election. Gombeen politicians elected to pay themselves hugh saleries at our expense. Will the Irish public ever wake up.

catbear

insight_man wrote: »

Will the Irish public ever wake up.

Not in this election. This is the election where people believe they're exorcising the past, wishing it away and that somehow changing gombeen party will make things better.

you know and I know that won't happen. the election after this one is where real change can happen.

Take Back Carlow Kilkenny

I'll probably get slated for posting this but it was brought to my attention by a friend who obviously put up the last quote.

This is John Cassin of Sinn Fein's take on the great debate last night and was his running commentary on his facebook page.

John Cassin
‎4 of them wearing red ties haha
23 hours ago · Like ·
3 people like this.
Yvonne Nì Slughaìdh Classy ha
23 hours ago · Like
John Cassin I no think they would have a back up on haha
22 hours ago · Like
Yvonne Nì Slughaìdh Keep me posted on whats happenin cause im in care doc the excitement of seein enda kenny overwhelmed me ha
22 hours ago · Like
John Cassin haha Adams holding his own Enda getting mad haha what wrong with you
22 hours ago · Like
Anthony Brophy Go gerry . No bull****
22 hours ago · Like
John Cassin i hope people are watching Anthony
22 hours ago · Like · 1 person
Yvonne Nì Slughaìdh Ive gallstones an st lukes had no hed to keep me BUT a vote for u is a vote for my gallbladder lol
22 hours ago · Like
John Cassin haha that sounds pain full close beds thats the way to slove the problem haha
22 hours ago · Like
Willie Fitzgerald gerry is doing very well
22 hours ago · Like
Cáitríona Brennan michéal martin has some neck telling gerry that he comes to the dáil with some fraudulant baggage !!! what about all the white collar fraud him and his cronies (including fine gael) have brought !!!!!
22 hours ago · Like · 3 people
Willie Fitzgerald he getting desperate there Cáitíona
22 hours ago · Like
Cáitríona Brennan he surely is !!! clutching at straws i think !!! look at them all getting worried when Gerry speaks !! it's slightly farsical
21 hours ago · Like
Anthony Brophy You would want your head examined
21 hours ago · Like
Anthony Brophy Gerry is the only one Making sense.
21 hours ago · Like · 1 person
Aoife Nic Reamoinn And they all in a blue shirt
21 hours ago · Like
John Cassin haha they try n 2 tell us something
21 hours ago · Like
Michelle Dowling Gerry put them to shame
21 hours ago · Like · 1 person
Emma Dempsey well done to gerry.....all he has to do is look at micheal martin and he starts to stutter.....and fraud???dont get me started....
21 hours ago · Like · 2 people
John Cassin haha he was scared stiff to interrupt Adams haha i wont start you
21 hours ago · Like
Take Back Ireland John are you 12?
11 hours ago · Like


Do I really need to say anymore about this???:(:(:( I promise that none of the dialogue has been edited,just check his page.

insight_man

catbear wrote: »

Not in this election. This is the election where people believe they're exorcising the past, wishing it away and that somehow changing gombeen party will make things better.

you know and I know that won't happen. the election after this one is where real change can happen.

Spotlight on BBC1 is covering Gerry Adams tonight. All about his campaign in Louth. Take a look

Davidian_ie

List of all declared candidates here and a platform to put questions to them.

http://www.candidatewatch.ie/candidates-30878-0----w4717.html#profile

Plenty of time to put important local issues to them.Will be interesting to see who can come up with real time solutions and which will refer to the party template to pawn your concerns off.

up for anything

What do you do with your vote when you come to the conclusion that there is no one to whom you feel you can allocate your vote?

Captain Havoc

up for anything wrote: »

What do you do with your vote when you come to the conclusion that there is no one to whom you feel you can allocate your vote?

If there's a particular party or independent you don't want to see get in, then vote for someone else. So if you really dislike the policies of party x but feel parties y and z are bad but not as bad as x then vote for one of y or z.

fabbydabby

Make a stand and spoil your vote. Draw a large cock 'n balls on it with a marker.

Use bright colours and shading to make it look more appealing.

DerryRed

up for anything wrote: »

What do you do with your vote when you come to the conclusion that there is no one to whom you feel you can allocate your vote?

Either spoil your vote or don't turn up. Then use the time before the next election, to find like minded people, and organise yourselves so that your views are represented the next time.

thetonynator

fabbydabby wrote: »

Make a stand and spoil your vote. Draw a large cock 'n balls on it with a marker.

Use bright colours and shading to make it look more appealing.

Imaginative . . . :P

Davidian_ie

http://www.politweets.ie/politweets/irish-constituencies/

up for anything

Is post on a Saturday, in Kilkenny, a new thing or is it only to facilitate election mail?

I would imagine that all the election advertising is on recyclable paper but I tried burning three Mary White leaflets and it took two firelighters! :eek::D With some of the others the surface of the 'paper' blistered before it began to catch light. Scary stuff. I can see why people wouldn't be keen for an incinerator to be built next door to them.

ft9

I reckon John Paul Phelan or Phil Hogan will top the poll this day week.

John Mc will get in, Bobby Aylward will miss out this time.

Thats my thoughts, anyone else any predictions?

DerryRed

So Roman Abramovich, the owner of Chelsea, is one of the faces of the bondholders that the current government, and a future FG led government, want us, our children, our grandchildren, and our great grandchildren to pay back!!! - http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-01/abramovich-s-company-tells-ireland-not-to-renege-on-bank-debt.html

This is a man worth a reported $11.2 billion, and who recently spent £50 million on a footballer!!

Disgusting.

I know where my vote won't be going on Friday.

catbear

Derry, I hate Spin. Bondholders are more than individuals, they are investment companies too that deal with pensions and investments too.

Among the biggest [losers] was Norway's government pension fund, which invests the country's surplus oil revenue. As of the end of 2007, the most recent data available, the fund owned more than $800 million worth of Lehman bonds and stock.

http://art-commerce.blogspot.com/2008/09/case-no-08-13555-lehman-and-norwegians.html
The bondholders are not the villains, it's the government who promised to make their bet whole. Anglo was Irelands Lehmans, the US government said burn! Our government whose personal interests were tied up in property wouldn't foreclose on Anglo when it should have and now the banks that the taxpayers bailed out are foreclosing on taxpayers that bailed them out.
If you went into a hollywood studio and pitched them the story they'd say "Nah, that's too far fetched, got any new ideas with dinosaurs alive today!"

DerryRed

catbear wrote: »

Derry, I hate Spin. Bondholders are more than individuals, they are investment companies too that deal with pensions and investments too.

http://art-commerce.blogspot.com/2008/09/case-no-08-13555-lehman-and-norwegians.html
The bondholders are not the villains, it's the government who promised to make their bet whole. Anglo was Irelands Lehmans, the US government said burn! Our government whose personal interests were tied up in property wouldn't foreclose on Anglo when it should have and now the banks that the taxpayers bailed out are foreclosing on taxpayers that bailed them out.
If you went into a hollywood studio and pitched them the story they'd say "Nah, that's too far fetched, got any new ideas with dinosaurs alive today!"

Catbear thanks for the feedback. I've amended the wording of my post accordingly.

I still think it's sickening that Abramovich is a beneficiary of our country's malaise.

Maybe Tommy Tiernan has got it right when he talks about this recession.
http://www.myvido1.com/wTEl0MidFds1kaSFzVr1UP_global-recession-michael-mcintyre-s-edy-

catbear

DerryRed wrote: »

I still think it's sickening that Abramovich is a beneficiary of our country's malaise.

I agree but when the Irish banks share price was heading for the cellar some of these bondholders were trying to get out, some were offering 50c on the Euro according to the Michael Lewis article in Vanity Fair. In the capitalist system the banks get wiped out, the shareholders get nothing, the deposits are guaranteed to a limit and the bondholder gets only what can be recovered. It happened as recently as two weeks ago in Denmark.

The Irish blank guarantee was a promise to pay in full and if you or I were bondholders we'd take back what we could and get as far away as possible before the place implodes. As it stands Irelands credit rating is a reflection of our inability to face the elephant in our midst, the unprincipled self interested voter. Our government chose to put Abramovich first and nation second, they didn't have to but they did for reasons that I doubt they can even explain although I suspect self interest had something to do with it.

Abramovich, foreign and domestic pension funds, small time investors, charities even have been hit by bond default. Now they stay clear of Ireland because transparency is resisted and nobody once bitten will want to return until they know exactly where the yield on their bond money comes from.

Argentina can borrow money at a cheaper rate than us!

alan85

I am going to vote for SF for these reasons:

• I think the biggest factor to bringing growth and jobs will be sorting out banking system and getting rid of the stone that brings down confidence in everybody any time there's a news article about debt repayments, capitalising banks, writing off bad loans etc. etc... At least SF are calling for restructuring. They have trumped this card in GE11 and it's been hugely important 'cause I think it would have gone unsaid otherwise in debates. Looks like Enda was softening us for further blows in March me thinks...
• I'm unemployed. I don't think FG are going to do much for my welfare. I know my welfare will be cut. I haven't heard anything concrete that they'll do for me regards creating jobs or training courses (Fás doesn't provide anything that would help me - I could use language certification and a retail course) . Again, at least SF are putting my concerns on the minds of others, even if it be from opposition, regards job stimulus and spending PRF in domestic economy rather than give it away as has been done... Actually, I'm wondering how pensions and welfare are going to be funded from 2025 which was its intention to fund an ageing population!!! So, that means heavy taxation in future to clean up private debt now...
• The opposition is going to consist of 20 FF, 20 Independents, possibly 30-40 Lab(more likely not as they'll be in gov.) and 20 SF. FF are right wing, Independents are too fractured, Lab are in cohoots so that leaves SF as really my nearest representative in opposition so it would be in my benefit to see them in there.

I travel up to the North of Ireland regularly. I go to a predominantly Unionist area. No problems apart from around July when I do feel a little intimidated. But in general the peace process has worked. SF have to be respected for that as do the DUP, UUP, SDLP and more recently the Alliance Party. The Troubles were terrible and that's why they haven't been named The Fantastic Times. It has to be put in context of its time. The British released an apology last year for Bloody Sunday. So, voting in Britain would be wrong would it if I lived there? Apology or not they did extremely wrong too. But name calling and harking back to those complex times won't cure our ills of today in my opinion.

Hope this makes sense...