National Event

Red Fox

well lads, i have to say i am absolutely delighted to see you's even talking about this. im a regular airsofter myself, im out every weekend and i know a lot of people who really would be up for this! normal airsoft just isnt enough any more! if this was organised within the next few months you more dan likely will get a very good turn out, (as long as it is reasonably priced).

A good storyline with not stop gameplay.
reasonably priced
and good large gaming area.
(is wexford paintball site really dat big and good?-if so theres a possible location) although predator is brilliant mainly because of size and use of pyro's.

it would be great if someone found a big forest right beside one of those 'ghost' construction sites, and turned it all into a site!-then we could slightly compare to TA's events

Lemming

Not to pick on Red Fox here, but I'll use as example since 'reasonably priced' seems to be a strong point emphasised for success of an event.

What exactly, to most people's minds, is "reasonably priced"? Every event I've ever attended have been in the range of €50-120 (adjusting for GBP£); and that includes Berget tickets. For every event I've ever attended, the ticket have been reasonably priced considering what's on offer; 2-4 days of often continuous airsoft, access to military training facilities, etc.

So what is reasonable pricing? I see the comment used often for AEGs when someone is really referring to wanting to practically rob someone else blind for €20 on something worth in order of magnitudes more. I ask this because the effort of organising events costs money; usually a sum more than your average walk-on fee and to be faced with the above example attitude for AEGs would make me certainly think twice about going to the effort of organising something in Ireland.

richieffff

I would be more than happy to pay 80-130 euro for a 2 day game with a long game time, especially if it is at a large site with a large turnout.

When you think about it in a 2 day game you would probably get 8-10 hours each day, when you get around 5 hours for 25 euro+ on most sites, so the money would be justified. This is just my own opinion though and others may see it as robbery or great value

Chuck the Buck

€100+ assuming the following:

• its a full weekend (start by 11am Sat and not stop, as in 24hr, until 5 or 6pm on Sun or better yet Monday morning/afternoon if its a bank holiday weekend)
• no kiddies
• no hi-caps
• no sleeve chewers.

Oh yeah and no pallets!

AlternateID

The last TA game I attended we played 20hrs of a 24hr game. That's getting your monies worth.

I know of no site in southern Ireland that is big enough or good enough for a big game. Would anyone care to give an example of a site they think could host such a game?

richieffff

Chuck the Buck wrote: »

€100+ assuming the following:

• its a full weekend (start by 11am Sat and not stop, as in 24hr, until 5 or 6pm on Sun or better yet Monday morning/afternoon if its a bank holiday weekend)
• no kiddies
• no hi-caps
• no sleeve chewers.

Oh yeah and no pallets!

By kiddies, 18 and under or 16 and under, would be fairly bad if it were over 18 for me (17)

Chuck the Buck

AlternateID wrote: »

The last TA game I attended we played 20hrs of a 24hr game. That's getting your monies worth.

I know of no site in southern Ireland that is big enough or good enough for a big game. Would anyone care to give an example of a site they think could host such a game?

Nap time goes without saying, what I was saying was more that it shouldn't stop for little johnny (be he 15 or 50) to go home at his bedtime or to get dinner, batteries, etc etc etc...

Sadly there is no where down here that could run it and have it anything beyond a regular skirmish.

Lemming

AlternateID wrote: »

I know of no site in southern Ireland that is big enough or good enough for a big game. Would anyone care to give an example of a site they think could host such a game?

Predator.

I've been to two of their annual events (Red Hammer II & III respectively), with attendance in the triple digit figures for both.

Chuck the Buck wrote: »

Nap time goes without saying, what I was saying was more that it shouldn't stop for little johnny (be he 15 or 50) to go home at his bedtime or to get dinner, batteries, etc etc etc...

I've been to several events (including the aforementioned Predator 'Red Hammer' series) where games did end for the evening; allowing people to socialise, drink, and generally have fun. And those events are as much memorable for off-the-field moments as on the field. 24-hour events have their appeal, but don't discount weekender events for the sake of it.

sliabh

AlternateID wrote: »

The last TA game I attended we played 20hrs of a 24hr game. That's getting your monies worth.

I know of no site in southern Ireland that is big enough or good enough for a big game. Would anyone care to give an example of a site they think could host such a game?

Danin, how big is your site and what were you planning to charge for the event that you had to cancel?

evilrobotshane

sliabh wrote: »

Danin, how big is your site and what were you planning to charge for the event that you had to cancel?

Just to emphasise this for people who aren't aware, a big event was tried, and got almost zero interest. ALMOST ZERO. There's a lot of mouth about how people want stuff, but the number who are willing to pony up their money, time and effort is tiny.

Chuck the Buck wrote: »

Nap time goes without saying

Psh, lightweights.

FingalAirsoft

Just a few questions for you guys:

How many players would you like to see at a National Event?

What age range? (Now before you say strictly over 18, Why?)

What price point would you be willing to pay?

Which is better: 1 full 24hr game or one weekender event with some down time?

How far would you travel for this event?

Urban or woodland?

Cheers guys,

Bren:)

sliabh

FingalAirsoft wrote: »

How many players would you like to see at a National Event?

Depends on the size of the site. I wouldn't want something that resembles the battle of the somme. There shouldn't be so many players that people are tripping over one another. But urban will be different to rural. 100 or so would allow 3-4 good sized factions.

FingalAirsoft wrote: »

What age range? (Now before you say strictly over 18, Why?)

I would be more worried about the commitment. If a player is well equipped (no tracksuits and runners) and has the right level of engagement (knows what the game is, what to expect, has read the rules, and won't wander off mid way because their parents have come to collect them) then younger players are okay.

FingalAirsoft wrote: »

What price point would you be willing to pay?

If I felt the site was good, the people organising the event had the experience and reputation to assure me it was good, and there was obvious interest in Ireland, then I would happily pay €50 per day.

FingalAirsoft wrote: »

Which is better: 1 full 24hr game or one weekender event with some down time?

I would angle for a 36 hour one. Start Saturday morning, run to Sunday afternoon.

FingalAirsoft wrote: »

How far would you travel for this event?

From Austria, but that is just me :-) If I was in Ireland, I would be willing to go 4-5 hours by car.

FingalAirsoft wrote: »

Urban or woodland?

Can we have both? I have seen games organised in Belgium where they take over a holiday village in a forest. So you have urban and rural:
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67926437&postcount=4

markomongo

AlternateID wrote: »

The last TA game I attended we played 20hrs of a 24hr game. That's getting your monies worth.

I know of no site in southern Ireland that is big enough or good enough for a big game. Would anyone care to give an example of a site they think could host such a game?

Bellurgan Park, 'Borderlands' Airsoft, Dundalk, Co. Louth.

200 acres of natural mixed woodland on uneven terrain, (with the option to expand onto the 390 acre property to include fields and small tree forts), lake, tracks, foot bridges, village, prison, outposts and more.
Development continues.

Some nice plans for 2011...

AlternateID

markomongo wrote: »

Bellurgan Park, 'Borderlands' Airsoft, Dundalk, Co. Louth.

200 acres of natural mixed woodland on uneven terrain, (with the option to expand onto the 390 acre property to include fields and small tree forts), lake, tracks, foot bridges, village, prison, outposts and more.
Development continues.

Some nice plans for 2011...

Is this site open, insured and so on? Village, prison real buildings?

markomongo

AlternateID wrote: »

Is this site open, insured and so on? Village, prison real buildings?

Open and insured with all bases covered. The buildings are not 'real'...sorry about the confusion. They are purpose built airsoft structures. Can find more info on facebook. Boderlands should be set up in the sites section here soon.

Danin

sliabh wrote: »

Danin, how big is your site and what were you planning to charge for the event that you had to cancel?

Just to put you straight it wasn't me organising that event it was another lad but it was to take place on the same estate as our site. The estate itself is well over a thousand acres with a lake, abandoned buildings, natural woodland with paths, a small quarry and other landmarks.
the lad in question had organised and payed for a professionally designed website with forums and online booking for members similar to TA events. He also got posters printed and issued all around Ireland.
He had a fully outdoor lit and facilitated campsite with security sorted with an added facility for charging batteries etc. He had organised a retailers zone for retailers to take part and also a mess hall with hot food available.
At the end of the event he had also included a barbecue for players to enjoy on th last night with vouchers for food and 2 beers all included in the price.

and unfortunately eventually with a heavy heart he had to cancel due to lack of interest and a vast lost of his own money.

Our site is around 55 acres of natural woodland if not a bit bigger with paths through it. We ran the first part of "The Black Ace Chronicles" and I have to say for a one day event it went considerably well with players from Dublin, Galway, Longford and Sligo but again even with a price set at €25 from around 10am to I think around 7pm it didnt get the numbers the site could have coped with.

there were no break players informed their squad leader when they wanted to drop out to eat.

Honestly if people want a 24 hour or weekend battlesim event or a milsim event they need to take a leap of faith and start attending some of the one day events already taking place because they are out there and ask people that attend them some of them are great. By doing this you'll give the Site Owners a more positive reason to invest in a weekend event.

It can be done but I think the owness is on the players more so than the site owners to make it happen.

AlternateID

Was that the "Command & Conquer: The Integration Limerick" event?

Danin

AlternateID wrote: »

Was that the "Command & Conquer: The Integration Limerick" event?

no it was called the Vostrovian Conflict I think and it was going to be held in Sligo. That poor lad had also taken out the back page of the Take Aim magazine as an advert and bought huge military tents and he had also organised the military vehicle club to come down and use some of their troop transports and other vehicles for players it would have been awesome and sad thing is and i know this for a fact because he showed me he had more of a response from across the water than here in Ireland.

the Chairman of the IAA had been up and was brought around some of the site and he thought it looked great.

markomongo

Danin wrote: »

Honestly if people want a 24 hour or weekend battlesim event or a milsim event they need to take a leap of faith and start attending some of the one day events already taking place because they are out there and ask people that attend them some of them are great. By doing this you'll give the Site Owners a more positive reason to invest in a weekend event.

It can be done but I think the owness is on the players more so than the site owners to make it happen.

Too true. As Ian even said he has had numbers as low as 80 in 2009 for events in Sennybridge and thats in the UK with a more evolved scene, and not to mention greater numbers of players.

I can see the Irish community's interest expanding more and more though which is nice!

AlternateID

Danin wrote: »

no it was called the Vostrovian Conflict I think and it was going to be held in Sligo. That poor lad had also taken out the back page of the Take Aim magazine as an advert and bought huge military tents and he had also organised the military vehicle club to come down and use some of their troop transports and other vehicles for players it would have been awesome and sad thing is and i know this for a fact because he showed me he had more of a response from across the water than here in Ireland.

Just having a look at the old thread you can see it simply wasn't promoted well. Even the game rules on the site still have the wrong fps limits.

If you had posted this in his thread last year a lot more people would of taken an interest.

Danin wrote:

The estate itself is well over a thousand acres with a lake, abandoned buildings, natural woodland with paths, a small quarry and other landmarks.

He had a fully outdoor lit and facilitated campsite with security sorted with an added facility for charging batteries etc. He had organised a retailers zone for retailers to take part and also a mess hall with hot food available.
At the end of the event he had also included a barbecue for players to enjoy on th last night with vouchers for food and 2 beers all included in the price.

Your last two posts have made that event sound a lot more interesting then anything on the 3 pages in the original thread.

Lemming

I'll answer this backward;

sliabh wrote: »

Can we have both? I have seen games organised in Belgium where they take over a holiday village in a forest. So you have urban and rural:
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67926437&postcount=4

Just to point out; the players stay in the village accommodation and they are allowed to fight around it, not in it. So sennybridge-belgium it is not.

FingalAirsoft wrote: »

Just a few questions for you guys:

How many players would you like to see at a National Event?

What age range? (Now before you say strictly over 18, Why?)

What price point would you be willing to pay?

Which is better: 1 full 24hr game or one weekender event with some down time?

How far would you travel for this event?

All pertinent questions but first you need to ask what sort of event do you want to run? Battlesim/Milsim/themed historical games all have a niche spot that attracts a smaller albeit more dedicated following than garden variety airsoft. So doi you go for the smaller market, or try to be inclusive? Do you encourage the social off-field aspects of airsoft by having downtime? Are you capable of running a game continuously? etc.

Sometimes - and as much as I have my taste for the more extreme end of 'niche' - it's fun to just let it go casual for a weekend event. I've been to weekender events with fathers & sons (I've been to hardcore milsim events with fathers & sons but that's besides the point ... ), partners, etc. and it's great to see that inclusive side encouraged as much as I want to get my own fix of crawling through mud in torrential rain for 24 hours and maybe not getting to fire a single shot but still getting objectives accomplished all whilst risking capture and 'interrogation'.

It's an absolute crying shame that Vostrovian Conflict event didn't pan out. It was very ambitious in scope for being the first event of its size in Ireland and would have been an absolute watershed for the Irish community.

se conman

As has already been said "players need to take a leap of faith" Something i cannot understand is that people will organise themselves for air/sea travel but will not drive 4-5 hours to get to a site in Ireland.
Without advertising too much (waiting on MOD permission) I am planning a serious of events , traveling to different sites.these will be themed skirmishes to start with but will hopefully develope into milsim light and further if I feel it is what the people that turn up want.
My reasons for doing this is to get people to travel a few times a year to try different sites and meet different people and the only people that will make money from this (hopefully)will be the sites.

Puding

As has already been said "players need to take a leap of faith" Something i cannot understand is that people will organise themselves for air/sea travel but will not drive 4-5 hours to get to a site in Ireland.

i have no problem traveling in ireland to an event, if there was an event worth traveling to, know im waiting for mob to form as i type this, but i get a limit number of times a year to play airsoft, airsoft is a hobby, if im going to invest time and money into a trip i need to know what i;m going to get from it

Know this may be seen as elities or 'not supporting the Irish community' but im simply not going to spend a few hundred euros an a weekend at a glorified skirmish.

With events people have to be realist, we all talk about a national event but what does this mean? we want all airsofts to attend? well tbh that is just not practical, different people want different things from an event and you can not please 100% of people 100% of the time, an event needs to know what it wants to do and if people want to attend they will attend, if it is a skirmish event then other are not going to want to go, if it is milsim it is going to turn off other people, is this a bad thing? off course not, we just have to be realistic in are expectations.

BigGunner

lads i have a suggestion.

Would some one setup a poll on this topic. PLEASE.

i think you could gauge the turnout to an event by the number of responces to the poll.

Poll could be: Would you turn up to wk/nd event (36hrs) costing 100 euros for example.

simple yes no answer.

What ye think?

Puding

a poll would just give you a broken data set, your taking a poll of views of boards ( basically the vocal minority ) rather than the community as a whole

the problem with asking a question like that is it is short on details, yes i would pay 100euros for a event but it depends on the event, you could get 80 people say yes to your poll but they could be looking for 4 different event types and would not all turn up to the same event

BigGunner

Ya thats true. I posted National Event I should have put down big event. as was said not everyone is in milsim or into skirmishes something different.

evilrobotshane

As Puding said, feeling a bit secure that you're likely to have a good time rather than an overpriced skirmish with people with slightly different regional accents is probably a big factor, and while marketing can do a fair bit to convince you an event is going to be run slickly, reputation is probably the big one.

The Gathering in Galway is a bit before my time, but that used to pull people from all over the place. It was probably a bit overdone - once or twice a year would have made it seem special - but it started out, was good, and drew more people thereafter. Starting relatively small is how it'll have to be, people are going to have to hear about how cool something was and regret that they're not the type of person to take a chance and then make sure to go to the next one.

I admit the reason I didn't buy a ticket for the Vostrovian Conflict was because I was out of a job and because of the amount of money being poured into it wasn't sure I'd get my money back if it didn't run (which is a horrible thing to say, but things were really tight). The marketing was poor and the reputation wasn't established, so it was a bit of a risk. However, by not buying a ticket, I was aware that I was giving up my right to complain about a lack of big events in Ireland. We had our chance, and we didn't get behind it.

Start with something manageable and grow it; going big from the get-go doesn't look like it'll work.

se conman, I really like the sound of your idea and hope I can support it.

BigGunner, the problem with a poll is that it's just empty words. Saying yes is free. Putting money down and dragging yourself across the country on a Friday night isn't. The airsoft community is a great one, but maybe a side-effect of our openness and friendliness is a strong tendency to be all mouth and trousers.

BigGunner

Evilrobotshane has hit the nail on the head. Start small and grow from there. Advertising is great but it word of mouth that will spread the news of a good event. An event of 50 would be enough. A mixture of milsim and skirmish would appeal to most. And take is from there. Boderlands seems to have everthing that an event would need.

Puding

mixing it is the worst thing you can do tbh, your nether one thing or the other, it is the exact reason myself and others would not travel, i would not be able to justify spending that money and investing that time on a skirmish when i know i can go somewhere else for a full weekend of exactly what i want

Chuck the Buck

evilrobotshane wrote: »

I admit the reason I didn't buy a ticket for the Vostrovian Conflict was because I was out of a job and because of the amount of money being poured into it wasn't sure I'd get my money back if it didn't run (which is a horrible thing to say, but things were really tight). The marketing was poor and the reputation wasn't established, so it was a bit of a risk.

Same reason with me and anyone I spoke to about it. As was said in another post Danin's description of what was going to happen at it made it sound amazing, the original marketing of it just made it sound like a rehash of the gathering at best.


As for the Gatherings in G-TAC I've often wondered if it died because there were too many going to be ran, if people were finding themselves too strapped for cash, or if people realised they could have a trip to the UK and know exactly what they were getting for a bit more.


I have to agree with pudding too, mixing it just wouldn't work.