A digital Box that does the same as sky

cartman51773 · 31-01-2011 10:41am #1

Im not sure if this has already been looked into but does anyone know if there is a box out there that can do the same as a sky + box. ie record two channels at the same time and also have the ability for saorview with MHEG 5 and DVB T and DVB T2 all in one. would be the perfect box to get your hands on.

Peter Rhea · 31-01-2011 2:08pm

Do a search (in sat. & terrestrial) for 'combo box'. It's one of the most popular topics.

watty · 31-01-2011 2:16pm

Actually, it doesn't quite exist yet. No True Freesat PVR with Dual DTT. Or any DTT.

Seamu$ · 31-01-2011 2:22pm

Am I right in saying that it can be done by building your own HTPC and putting a Blackgold BGT3595 or similar in it?

Watty, would you expect this such a product will be developed and be generally available soon?

cartman51773 · 31-01-2011 4:17pm

thats why i asked watty. im aware of combo boxes but we need one that can record dual satellite and also saorview. thats the box to have.

Johnmb · 31-01-2011 4:22pm

cartman51773 wrote: »

thats why i asked watty. im aware of combo boxes but we need one that can record dual satellite and also saorview. thats the box to have.

It's not likely to happen on anything other than a highly customisable box like the Linux based ones. There simply isn't enough demand for anyone to do it as a standard box. The Irish market is too small, and the UK market doesn't need such a box as there isn't a big difference between what is available on Freeview and Freesat, so people will use one or the other, not both.

cartman51773 · 31-01-2011 4:46pm

what about this

Technomate TM7100 HD
will this do the job.

Johnmb · 31-01-2011 4:51pm

cartman51773 wrote: »

what about this

Technomate TM7100 HD
will this do the job.

Doesn't have the MHEG5 standard. Also, there seems to be a problem recording a DTT channel while watching a satellite channel, although I've only tried doing it once, but it didn't work. There is some new firmware available for it so maybe that will sort out the problem if/when I get around to updating it. And it only has the now/next epg on satellite, not the 7 day epg Sky has.

watty · 31-01-2011 5:25pm

Windows 7 has MHEG5 and MPEG4 out of the box. A nVidia GT210 type fanless card (256M is fine) recommended.

a pair of cheap DVB-S2 cards and a Dual DTT USB stick, like the MobiDTV gives four tuners.

MHEG5 is promised real soon now on Linux and 3rd party Window Applications. Some Bundled Application with a Tuner does MHEG5, I forget which brand. Likely it's crippled and won't work with cards they didn't supply.

DVBviewer is working good on XP pro (4 or 5 year old AMD 64 Athlon 3700+) with full EPG for Freesat and Saorview. Pair of Technotrend S3200 DVB-S2 (rebadged by many) + MoboDTV Dual DTT tuner USB stick. Asus EN210 version of Nvidia GT210 feeding HDMI via 2x 8m screen Cat5e. IR Remote via 2 pairs of cat5e UTP soldered 2.5mm jack & socket to extend IR remote eye (use either Sat card, or and MCE remote).

See bottom of page here http://www.techtir.ie/howto/hdmi-via-cat5-cable

There is no problem getting a perfect FTA replacement for Sky alone, that's a "Freesat HD" box. Also any decent UK "Freeview HD" PVR makes a good Saorview PVR. But other than Windows 7, I don't see today how to have both in one box and do MHEG5.

We only have Windows 7 on a Laptop, so I can't say how it does Satellite. The MHEG5 works on DTT. Also I've read that BBC red button works on Win7 Sat card. But I suspect it has to fetch satellite EPG from Internet. I suspect DVBviewer is using some sort of unauthorised plugin or internet. It seems to have a full 28.2 EPG. I have 28E, 19E, 13E & 9E on the PC.

DvbViewer and CoreAVC cost me money, but a lot less than decent version of Win7 is.

I'm happy to test Win7 and review it for Multisat + MHEG5 if someone gives me a Kosher Win7 licence!

We know the "Saorview" part on MobiDTV dual DTT USB stick on a Win7 laptop is perfect.

cartman51773 · 31-01-2011 6:04pm

do if i get a "Freesat HD" box or any decent UK "Freesat HD" it will work like a sky+ box and pull in saorview. but will this have the 7 day epg for setting up recordings

emaherx · 31-01-2011 8:00pm

Freesat HD box won't work for saorview.
We don't know how well they Will work for saorsat.

I think watty ment freeview HD. Probably a victim of his own spell check

cartman51773 · 31-01-2011 9:14pm

So is there anything out there that will allow recording of dtt and satellite and have mheg5 and also full 7 day dtt and uk epg

watty · 31-01-2011 9:19pm

emaherx wrote: »

Freesat HD box won't work for saorview.
We don't know how well they Will work for saorsat.

I think watty ment freeview HD. Probably a victim of his own spell check

Fixed I think

emaherx · 31-01-2011 9:49pm

cartman51773 wrote: »

So is there anything out there that will allow recording of dtt and satellite and have mheg5 and also full 7 day dtt and uk epg

Nothing cheap or simple. Htpc or expensive Linux box come close.
Combination of humax freeview HD and humax freesat HD PVRs can work from the same remote, closest thing to sky+ in functionality but expensive as it requires two boxes

STB · 31-01-2011 10:47pm

This question keeps coming up and the answer is always the same. No box is due to come on the market that does both Freesat HD and Freeview HD. Echostar were banging on about bringing one out with Slingbox functionality as well. They havent appeared and if they ever do, they will be very expensive!

The main thing to get your head around is this:

Freesat HD is not just a 7 day epg. There are other things going on in the background. For example a satellites frequency/TP is changed - you dont have to manually delete the old one and add the new and manually edit it position - the Freesat software does all that for you. The software also controls HD stations and the BBC Sports streams as another example.

Non Linux Combo Boxes no matter now many tuners they have, only do now/next on satellite. It is possible to write an epggrab command outside of running Enigma, but you need good coders to spefically write this and roll it out as a a firmware update- its already been done with Fortec Passion, but it caused many headaches.

Okay so lets talk about Linux boxes then.

So there are mainly 3 box groups available that are supported in the UK/Ireland region.

They are

VU+ Duo (dual tuner with USB DVB-T stick) made by Marusys in Korea.
Qbox HD (triple tuner)/Qbox HD Mini (dual tuner)
Azbox HD (Dual) based in Portugal

All of these work on the same principle - they use Enigma 2 on the linux OS to run plugins that grab the epg data and fill the 7 day EPG for satellite, nothing else. But remember that paragraph about that Freesat not just being a 7 day epg. The linux OS doesnt mimic the proprietary look of Freesat, it just grabs the epg data that isnt in the open and populates it in a readable EPG format.

It also supports the 7 day epg which it grabs from EIT for DTT Channels and all in the one channels list.

Each of these boxes offers media player/internet as well as well as different PVR facilities depending on how many tuners they have. You need a least 3 - 2 Sat 1 DTT.

Understanding basic linux command lines is a must.

watty · 31-01-2011 11:13pm

Sometime later in the year you will need 2x DTT and 2x Sat for full feature PVR, unless the TV is Irish DTT compatible, in which case, yes only one DTT tuner needed. Series link may or may not need MHEG5. We don't know.

To re-iterate, unless it has a Freesat logo, it won't do ALL the the Freesat Stuff:

Custom EPG which is NOT using MHEG5 data or DVB EIT
Interactive Streams. These may not always be compatible full frame video, in which case ONLY MHEG5 can view them. BBC is adding more.
Interactive Text (MHEG5)
Any other MHEG5 app BBC thinks of
HD channel magics.
Cbeebies/Cbbc and BBC3/BBC4 when out of active period puts a static screen.
Auto retune/new parameters.

Non-Freesat boxes can do 28.2E 7day EPG by either
"breaking the rules" and using Custom Satellite EPG info. There has been discussion of encryption. Currently it's just compressed.
or
XML download via Internet (I think this is what Triax might have in mind for Saorview certified Combo).

As STB and I have said, there is not likely going to be an "Freeview HD" + "Freesat HD" Combo. No market worth talking about.
A Freesat Box with non-"DVB-T2" DTT has only an Irish market. Since Freesat uses MHEG5, it would likely do all you want even if not certified. This is unlikely.

We won't know if the Triax Saorview certified Combo has MHEG5 enabled on Satellite. If it has, then it Might do BBC Text. It Might do Interactive sport stuff. We won't know. But it won't do the other Freesat stuff.

So a Saorview compatible TV that can record and "Freesat HD" PVR might be as good as it gets. A Linux combo is a cheap solution to add Sat & DTT basic video & audio to a non-"Irish DTT compatible" TV. But it's not in same league as a "Freeview HD" PVR, or "Freesat HD" PVR in ease of use or compatibility.

This is why Saorsat might have a higher take up than RTE's forecast 2%. IF a "Freesat HD" PVR supports Diseqc, allows non-Freesat channels on favorites and RTE NL transmits a suitable MHEG5 EPG for PVRs that works with "Freeview HD" and "Freesat HD" PVRs.

It's unlikely that there will be a full feature 2xDTT + 2xSat Freesat HD compatible PVR.

A digital Box that does the same as sky

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