Fry Model Railway Museum to close permanently!

steamengine

A few months back this press release was issued. Mentions a new purpose built museum in the grounds of the old thatched house.

link

Judgement Day

steamengine wrote: »

A few months back this press release was issued. Mentions a new purpose built museum in the grounds of the old thatched house.

link

I see more about it here: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0428/1224315296664.html but it's strange how nobody in the modelling fraternity seems to know anything about it. What happened to the nonsensical suggestion of putting it in Busaras?

Whatever now happens it would need to be a much improved operation than that formerly run by Dublin Tourism at Malahide Castle.

Sheldrake

Friends
We have commissioned a feasibility study from an expert in the world of finance on the future prospects of the Malahide project. It makes for interesting reading, and is accompanied by actual projected revenue and expense streams. I won't post those for obvious reasons, but they are available to serious players if required.

The executive summary is hereunder:

1. During 22 years at Malahide Castle, the museum was not viable as a stand-alone operation. Direct income exceeded direct expenses but a notional net loss was incurred after absorbing cost of administrative support from Dublin Tourism and 7/24 security provided by Fingal Council.

2. Casino site is not fit for purpose. Existing building is entirely unsuitable. A minimum 10,000 sq ft new building will be needed to house static museum and working railway, and to satisfy health & safety. Grounds are too small to provide adequate car and coach parking, plus complementary landscaping. Access problems from busy main road. Existing traffic congestion in nearby Malahide village.

3. Facility will constitute a radical change of use for location, implying community resistance. Planning/ NIMBY-type objections may result in costly delays during pre-commissioning phase.

4. Assuming project commences first quarter 2013 and there is no undue delay, commissioning would be unlikely before 2016. Capital cost estimated at € 2.3 million. Delay beyond 2016 will result in escalating holding costs.

5. Gaffney bequest to fund Casino project is €1.5 million. Opening by end 2016 will incur a minimum capital shortfall of €800,000.

6. For income projections, a target figure of 75,000 visitors pa has been projected. Note this is believed to be 3/ 4 times average annual numbers in years 1988-2010. Projections include a discount factor to recognise customer resistance at higher ticket price levels.

7. Projected operating budget shows annual trading losses of € 330,000 to 400,000. Note that this result may be impervious to additional promotional support ie increased advertising cost would offset increased revenue implying market saturation.

Circulate at will.

Judgement Day

So, on the basis of your figures the project is a no-hoper?

Sheldrake

I'm afraid so. Unfortunately, the Minster, acting on local pressure from concerned citizens in Malahide, decided to make a non-viable decision without full knowledge. Fingal County Council, which evicted the layout and collection in the first place, is now in a position where they have been once again given the collection and layout, but have admitted they have no expertise in the matter. They have not approached any experts, and are not in a position, for financial reasons, to go ahead with the project. Michael Gaffney's bequest, generous as it is, is insufficient for the purchase of the Casino, refurbishment, building a new building for the layout, renewal of the layout and preservation of the actual Fry Collection - which has been designated as a 'National Asset'. So there you have it. Please circulate!
Regards.

gobnaitolunacy

Quelle surprise.

Losty Dublin

Sheldrake wrote: »

I'm afraid so. Unfortunately, the Minster, acting on local pressure from concerned citizens in Malahide, decided to make a non-viable decision without full knowledge. Fingal County Council, which evicted the layout and collection in the first place, is now in a position where they have been once again given the collection and layout, but have admitted they have no expertise in the matter. They have not approached any experts, and are not in a position, for financial reasons, to go ahead with the project. Michael Gaffney's bequest, generous as it is, is insufficient for the purchase of the Casino, refurbishment, building a new building for the layout, renewal of the layout and preservation of the actual Fry Collection - which has been designated as a 'National Asset'. So there you have it. Please circulate!
Regards.

Interesting figure, Sheldrake. They beg another interesting question, have you a vested interest in the project? I ask only to ascertain your personal position regards same.

AlekSmart

With the amount of empty,long-term vacant,cobwebbed commercial space vacant in and around Dublin City Centre I remain bamboozled that this important and improvable collection is once again endangered.

Even locating the entire collection in Sandyford's Beacon Centre would nicely complement the Imaginosity Childrens Museum (http://www.imaginosity.ie/).

Within this location is a veritable barren tundra of abandoned,unfinished or otherwise unused space,all of which could house the Fry System.

Here we have something which is Unique and highly marketable,in the right hands,and all we can do is hmmm and hawww before waffling about how great Legoland is....:o

Is this country's entire administrative system comprised of eejits or what ?
(Although,having experience of the revised,revised,new Improved Traffic Management arrangements within Sandyford Estate I really don't actually need to pose that question).

Run_to_da_hills

AlekSmart wrote: »

With the amount of empty,long-term vacant,cobwebbed commercial space vacant in and around Dublin City Centre I remain bamboozled that this important and improvable collection is once again endangered.

Even locating the entire collection in Sandyford's Beacon Centre would nicely complement the Imaginosity Childrens Museum (http://www.imaginosity.ie/).

Within this location is a veritable barren tundra of abandoned,unfinished or otherwise unused space,all of which could house the Fry System.

Here we have something which is Unique and highly marketable,in the right hands,and all we can do is hmmm and hawww before waffling about how great Legoland is....:o

Is this country's entire administrative system comprised of eejits or what ?
(Although,having experience of the revised,revised,new Improved Traffic Management arrangements within Sandyford Estate I really don't actually need to pose that question).

Alternatively they could build a large barn and relocate it to Moyasta along with the rest of our national railway heritage.

Tabnabs

What happened to the offer by Dun Laoghaire Harbour Company to house it in their expansive and rather underutilised ferry terminal? Or DLRCoCo who seem to like model rail if the annual exhibition in their atrium is anything to go by (and very enjoyable!)

gobnaitolunacy

Tabnabs wrote: »

What happened to the offer by Dun Laoghaire Harbour Company to house it in their expansive and rather underutilised ferry terminal? Or DLRCoCo who seem to like model rail if the annual exhibition in their atrium is anything to go by (and very enjoyable!)

I'm open to correction here, but I think that terminal building has been removed since? I'm pretty sure the concrete built terminal is gone, maybe the trainshed is still there?

If the 'concerned citizens' of Malahide want the railway in their locality that badly, why don't they put their money where their mouth is?

Tarabuses

Wasn't there talk of it locating to Busaras?

Losty Dublin

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

I'm open to correction here, but I think that terminal building has been removed since? I'm pretty sure the concrete built terminal is gone, maybe the trainshed is still there?

If the 'concerned citizens' of Malahide want the railway in their locality that badly, why don't they put their money where their mouth is?

The trainshed on the Carlisle pier was knocked down a few years ago. It wouldn't have been suitable as it was not wholly enclosed and access was via the National Yacht Club's boatyard. The proposal by the Dun Laoghaire harbour would have effectively written off their terminal to passenger boats so it too was not very practical.

If it's worth anything, the basement of Busaras is quite expansive and it would be reasonably easy for refitting as required. That's not to say there isn't better buildings for it but for now it seems to be the only location mooted for it that is readily available.

steamengine

The Fry Collection saga once again points up the lack of a proper transport museum and preservation facility in the southern part of this island. Preservation generally is just a series of hotch-potch efforts all over the shop. Take the case of the Mark 3's - going to the scrap heap currently, if someone wanted to preserve a few, where could they put them - under a tarpaulin in a field somewhere ?

What's needed is a proper transport museum, with a reasonable amount of track then everything can be preserved permanently and properly. The Fry collection reminds me of Joseph and Mary wandering around Bethlehem looking for somewhere to put their baby Jesus and all that's on offer is a hay barn - if even that. It's a national disgrace !!!

L1011

Somehow I thought the complaining and arguing over this had gone on well after 2013; but old threads get bounced here a lot :pac:

Photos up on Twitter of the external renovation work to Malahide Casino, where this will eventually be reopening in a few months

https://twitter.com/LoveFingalDub/status/1207028719963004929

http://www.enjoymalahide.com/home/all-about-malahide/casino-model-railway-museum/

Del.Monte

Illustrated thread here: https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/7849-new-fry-model-railway/


It's is a shadow of the original and 00 gauge rather than Fry's 0 gauge and the rebuild by Tommy Tighe. While the layout is impressive by model railway exhibition standards it's a pretty poor effort by Fingal Co.Council or whoever is behind the project.

Pete_Cavan

Del.Monte wrote: »

Illustrated thread here: https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/7849-new-fry-model-railway/


It's is a shadow of the original and 00 gauge rather than Fry's 0 gauge and the rebuild by Tommy Tighe. While the layout is impressive by model railway exhibition standards it's a pretty poor effort by Fingal Co.Council or whoever is behind the project.

I don't get this post. If it is a model railway exhibition and you state that it is "impressive by model railway exhibition standards", by what standards are you judging it to claim it is a "poor effort"?

Anyway, it would have been great if it could have been housing in the old station house at Malahide station, would have been more appropriate.

whisky_galore

The point of the Fry was all of it was O gauge. Fry worked in O, not OO, so there was something of a continuity from Fry's original with the Castle layout.

I'm guessing it had to be OO to be shoehorned into a smaller area. I don't doubt the amount of work that's gone into the latest iteration but there's something about that massive O layout that doesn't have the same impact in the smaller scale. It's disappointing but hey it's just any old train will do to those in officialdom and Dublin Tourism.

Del.Monte

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I don't get this post. If it is a model railway exhibition and you state that it is "impressive by model railway exhibition standards", by what standards are you judging it to claim it is a "poor effort"?

Anyway, it would have been great if it could have been housing in the old station house at Malahide station, would have been more appropriate.

An exhibition as in a model railway exhibition such as those run by the SDMRC or the MRSI - not a museum standard exhibition. Do I take it from your comment that you never visited the original Fry Model Railway Museum? While it was far from perfect, it was impressive and quite unlike anything that you would see at a club run model exhibition.

Del.Monte

Another video below about the closure of the original museum which has had just 527 views since it was put up in 2011.

AlekSmart

Del.Monte wrote: »

Another video below about the closure of the original museum which has had just 527 views since it was put up in 2011.

It's over 40 years since I first encountered Tommy Tighe deep within the bowels of Inchicore Railway Works.

His enthusiasm and passion for the intricacy of model railway layouts was quite mystifying to this young apprentice,but now I look back in wonder at the achievements he and a relatively small band of co-conspirators made.

It is a sad reflection on a Country which has traded on it's love of Tradition,Creativity,and appreciation of the past,that it could'nt manage to take this fantastic raw material and make something of it.

Even now,State Owned properties such as Mulvany's Broadstone Station or even Kingsbridge itself,offer viable locations for a Transport Heritage Centre,which could offer visitors and locals alike a totally unique insight into our past.

Why,one wonders,is modern Ireland so bereft of the creativity,as opposed to the destruction,which now appears to have become Irelands byword ?

whisky_galore

Official Ireland and Failte Ireland loves the past, but it's a past of the well worn tourist trail favourites; mystical "Celticism", some Viking bits thrown in, Bunratty Castle faux Medieval feasts and centre stage the Revolutionary Era as they call it now.

It's as if there's no such thing as transport or industrial heritage, as if there's a presumption that people aren't interested.

Joker2019

Riddiculous that it was closed. As a Southsider I remember making the journey there by DART as a child to go and se the model railway as a family day out. I remember hearing about the closure and thinking a renovated Malahide Castle is not going to attract someone to Malahide but a model railway museum will.

Atlantic Dawn

Joe Duffy will be very happy so to speak, model choo choo trains are back.

GM228

Probably mentioned somewhere in the thread, but what happened to the original stock and assets?

whisky_galore

GM228 wrote: »

Probably mentioned somewhere in the thread, but what happened to the original stock and assets?

Only the stuff actually built by Fry himself will be on static display. The rest; the stock that used run at the Castle, buildings, track etc all in storage for the foreseeable future.

So that's all that will be there, the actual Fry stock in glass cases, some memorabilia and a new build OO layout.
That's it.

MrAbyss

The old museum at Malahide castle was run by **** who were very rude to the public and if you took out a camera you were practically arrested. I was delighted that they all lost their jobs.

As for the old layout itself, the fact it looked like a giant trainset was the appeal! So did Cyril Fry's home layout. You got see so much running.

I will go to see the new OO layout and once his rolling stock is on display that is good. But still...

Del.Monte

I wasn't glad to see anybody lose their job in the closure of the original museum. I have to say that apart from the manager, John Dunne, the people operating the layout were distinctly unwelcoming. However, Tom Tighe was a gentleman and it's a pity to see his work stored/binned.

MrAbyss

Del.Monte wrote: »

I wasn't glad to see anybody lose their job in the closure of the original museum. I have to say that apart from the manager, John Dunne, the people operating the layout were distinctly unwelcoming.

So basically they should have been allowed to remain on the job even though their belligerent and unprofessional treatment of the general public - ensuring no one would return - was a factor in its closure? I went twice. Once for myself and once with a model train fan from the USA who wanted to see Mr Fry's models in action and both times the staff were utter twats. Never went again.

You must be a semi-state union type right?

whisky_galore

It definitely wasn't child friendly.
I'm surprised anyone could take decent photos there it was so dark.

end of the road

MrAbyss wrote: »

So basically they should have been allowed to remain on the job even though their belligerent and unprofessional treatment of the general public - ensuring no one would return - was a factor in its closure? I went twice. Once for myself and once with a model train fan from the USA who wanted to see Mr Fry's models in action and both times the staff were utter twats. Never went again.

that's not what he said.
of course you know that.

MrAbyss wrote: »

You must be a semi-state union type right?

ridiculous statement.
union "types" don't exist, rather they are many people with different beliefs and views who join a union to organise in the aim of protecting their terms and conditions, not to mention that unions exist in the private sector as well as the state and semi-state and everything else.
someone not being glad someone else lost their job, regardless of their own personal opinion on the individual or individuals concerned, does not equate to them being a union member for a start, but again, you will know this.

Joker2019

whisky_galore wrote: »

It definitely wasn't child friendly.
I'm surprised anyone could take decent photos there it was so dark.

These are models not toys

whisky_galore

Joker2019 wrote: »

These are models not toys

Any model railway exhibition I've ever been at had kids attending, what are they supposed to do, have "adults only" admission? Have parents leave them outside?

Joker2019

whisky_galore wrote: »

Any model railway exhibition I've ever been at had kids attending, what are they supposed to do, have "adults only" admission? Have parents leave them outside?

I was being sarcastic. I have often found the likes of people involved in the hobby such as those working in model shops unfriendly.

Del.Monte

Joker2019 wrote: »

I was being sarcastic. I have often found the likes of people involved in the hobby such as those working in model shops unfriendly.

Ciaran & Gerry McGowan of the Model Railway Shop/Leinster Models at Monck Place, Phibsboro bucked this trend and were two of the most enthusiastic and friendly people that I've met on the model railway scene. They were heavily involved in the original Fry project and I was lucky enough to persuade them to build me a wonderful 00 gauge model of a Cork, Blackrock & Passage Rly 2-4-2T locomotive. It was such a fine job that the Fry museum also ordered an identical locomotive. £400 was a lot of money back in 1990 but it was worth every penny!

AlekSmart

Del.Monte wrote: »

Ciaran & Gerry McGowan of the Model Railway Shop/Leinster Models at Monck Place, Phibsboro bucked this trend and were two of the most enthusiastic and friendly people that I've met on the model railway scene. They were heavily involved in the original Fry project and I was lucky enough to persuade them to build me a wonderful 00 gauge model of a Cork, Blackrock & Passage Rly 2-4-2T locomotive. It was such a fine job that the Fry museum also ordered an identical locomotive. £400 was a lot of money back in 1990 but it was worth every penny!

Can never pass the spot without reminiscing on the absolute need to stop and look in the small window and see what new gem sat there...

Just look at those opening hours....and expert advice too !!!

The City is a far lesser place for the passing of places such as this.....do I spot a CND badge on Gerry Mc's lapel :eek: ?

Del.Monte

And here's the loco that they built for me and it's your on Adverts.ie for a mere €300!

https://www.adverts.ie/toy-cars-trains-boats-planes/irish-model-railway-locomotive-very-rare/19506332

MrAbyss

Del.Monte wrote: »

Ciaran & Gerry McGowan of the Model Railway Shop/Leinster Models at Monck Place, Phibsboro bucked this trend and were two of the most enthusiastic and friendly people that I've met on the model railway scene. They were heavily involved in the original Fry project and I was lucky enough to persuade them to build me a wonderful 00 gauge model of a Cork, Blackrock & Passage Rly 2-4-2T locomotive. It was such a fine job that the Fry museum also ordered an identical locomotive. £400 was a lot of money back in 1990 but it was worth every penny!

Remember my father taking me there when I was about 8 or 9 for my first train set. Sheer magic. Then later as a teen going there in the evening and chatting to them like you were in their house. Even the unorthodox location seemed magical or something. Probably the greatest train shop on earth. Someone should write a book or make a movie about it.

Losty Dublin

whisky_galore wrote: »

The point of the Fry was all of it was O gauge. Fry worked in O, not OO, so there was something of a continuity from Fry's original with the Castle layout.

I'm guessing it had to be OO to be shoehorned into a smaller area. I don't doubt the amount of work that's gone into the latest iteration but there's something about that massive O layout that doesn't have the same impact in the smaller scale. It's disappointing but hey it's just any old train will do to those in officialdom and Dublin Tourism.

Some time ago acquaintances in the modelling game told me that what was on show was hastily packed away for storage and not by modeller types at that. When it came to being examined some years later to appraise the general condition of the sets, it was quickly apparent that the original sets were not going to be up for a working relay and restoration.

whisky_galore

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Some time ago acquaintances in the modelling game told me that what was on show was hastily packed away for storage and not by modeller types at that. When it came to being examined some years later to appraise the general condition of the sets, it was quickly apparent that the original sets were not going to be up for a working relay and restoration.

That doesn't come as any surprise either.

jippo nolan

MrAbyss wrote: »

Remember my father taking me there when I was about 8 or 9 for my first train set. Sheer magic. Then later as a teen going there in the evening and chatting to them like you were in their house. Even the unorthodox location seemed magical or something. Probably the greatest train shop on earth. Someone should write a book or make a movie about it.

I bought a Pullman carriage there in 1967 with my first pay package!