Dark Souls

Mickeroo

I think Demon Souls got the balance better in that regard tbh though wasn't as good a game over all. I still missed out on tonnes of stuff because of the whole dark/light thing (or was it black white?) but there was still enough of a storyline and NPCs knocing around to keep me interested. With DS there's no way I would completed any of the NPC quest lines without using the wiki and I don't really see how that enhances the game at all.

The challenging part of Dark Souls for me was the boss battles and entering a new area not knowing what to expect terrified I'd lose my souls before the next bonfire. Once I'd made it through an area it was generally pretty easy to get through again. The tedium of having to sprint through the same areas repeatedly to reach a boss battle was frustrating but not in a good way imo.

krudler

noodler wrote: »

Think that is more of a game design flaw than story issue.

Also, having to offer 10X humanity to covenants on a one-by-one basis etc. Badly done.

Inventory is a bit of a pain as well. Why can' it just say X6 if you have six Baldar Swords? Listing them one-by-one is an absolute pain.

Oh stop, I do huge clearouts of my inventory all the time, otherwise it takes ages to flick between the stuff you actually use on the fly if you need to quickly change during a boss fight or something, really wish you could sort your inventory the way you want it.
I never pick up anythnig off standard hollows cos it's rarely something good, you'd have about 30 basic shortswords and hollow armour pieces otherwise. I double up on decent weapons alright cos it's handy being able to have say a fire and lightning version of the same thing but otherwise I dump what I dont use, same with armour.

Mickeroo

krudler wrote: »

Oh stop, I do huge clearouts of my inventory all the time, otherwise it takes ages to flick between the stuff you actually use on the fly if you need to quickly change during a boss fight or something, really wish you could sort your inventory the way you want it.
I never pick up anythnig off standard hollows cos it's rarely something good, you'd have about 30 basic shortswords and hollow armour pieces otherwise. I double up on decent weapons alright cos it's handy being able to have say a fire and lightning version of the same thing but otherwise I dump what I dont use, same with armour.

I used to feed all the crap stuff I had collected to Frampt if I was a few hundred or thousand souls short of leveling up.

Creamy Goodness

can i be a complete noob and ask what's a SL1 run?

noodler

Mickeroo wrote: »

I used to feed all the crap stuff I had collected to Frampt if I was a few hundred or thousand souls short of leveling up.

Its absolutely no excuse though.

Its like them p1ssing all over your head and trying to solve it by giving you a cocktail umbrella.

Retr0gamer

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

can i be a complete noob and ask what's a SL1 run?

It's when you complete the game with just the Sauer Lancer and don't level it up past level 1. Forgoing the use of the coconut or mango is usually the way people do it.

Retr0gamer

A lot of the more obtuse stuff in the Souls games I find is at the higher end of the game, stuff you don't really need to think about until you are a good bit in. Kindling and hollowing aren't explained but sure if you are curious you unhollow yourself then kindle the flame like it tells you you have to do when you try it and find you now have more estus and there's people to summon now. It's how I figured it out.

Learning by experimentation, there's really not enough of that in games these days. If you want to see a game that does it the wrong way at times check out La Mulana (not to put you off that game either because other than some very obscure clues it's really good).

Now stuff like having more humanity to increase the amount of damage you are doing isn't well explained but the only reason to pay attention to that is if you are doing high level PVP or NG+ runs. Same with dark and light world tendencies, I only started unlocking that stuff towards the end of the game.

Retr0gamer

noodler wrote: »

Its absolutely no excuse though.

Its like them p1ssing all over your head and trying to solve it by giving you a cocktail umbrella.

In some ways I preferred the way DS handled items where only what you have equipped adds to your weight.

In other ways Stockpile Thomas was great for keeping your inventory managable.

You're right that it would make things easier but they probably had to seperate them out since many would differ by level or durability. Still a more elegant solution would have been preferable.

Mickeroo

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

can i be a complete noob and ask what's a SL1 run?

I think it means you don't level up at all, but not sure.

noodler wrote: »

Its absolutely no excuse though.

Its like them p1ssing all over your head and trying to solve it by giving you a cocktail umbrella.

Ah I think having a tonne of useless crap in your inventory is pretty par the course for RPGs tbh.

Zero-Cool

Yeah I thought SL1 was Soul Level 1, don't level up your character. Some good vids on youtube showing sl1 guys with measely Vitality and Endurance taking on bosses with ease because they know how the game works and shows you don't need all fancy stats if you put in the time to be good at the game.

I'm just at the Bed of Chaos boss and most other devs should feel absolutely ashamed of themselves using cheap QTE events for boss fights when they see how brilliant a job From Software do with theirs.

Retr0gamer

Bed of Chaos is usaully a boss people complain about as being one of the worst in the game

Have to agree though that the art of a decent boss battle has been somewhat lost in recent years.

penev10

Here's something I only found out recently and have never seen mentioned here - the damage bosses do is percentage based! Vageta311 kept going on about it in one of his low level runs. You can never be one-shotted by a boss.

Sgt Hartman

Well, after 2 and a half years of playing this I've finally killed my game disc (and a controller with it, about €70 worth of damage) There was only so many ninja flipping dark magic spammers I could take before I finally lost it.

Probably the wrong thread to vent this but I need to get it off my chest. On the bright side I've had great times with this game. PvPing, Darkwraithing, Darkmooning and helping people with bosses has been a joy as well as a pain in the ass at times. It's been ages since I've enjoyed a game this much. It's just last nite I finally got to the end of my tether with it. I've ordered DS2 but the nephew can have it, he's been looking fwd to it for a long time now so he'll be delighted when he gets it. I'm quitting games for a while myself and getting back into cooking and cycling more, for the sake of my mental health. It's time for me to decompress and get my head together before hitting the old Xbox again for more pleasure and punishment.

2smiggy

Sgt Hartman wrote: »

Well, after 2 and a half years of playing this I've finally killed my game disc (and a controller with it, about €70 worth of damage) There was only so many ninja flipping dark magic spammers I could take before I finally lost it.

Probably the wrong thread to vent this but I need to get it off my chest. On the bright side I've had great times with this game. PvPing, Darkwraithing, Darkmooning and helping people with bosses has been a joy as well as a pain in the ass at times. It's been ages since I've enjoyed a game this much. It's just last nite I finally got to the end of my tether with it. I've ordered DS2 but the nephew can have it, he's been looking fwd to it for a long time now so he'll be delighted when he gets it. I'm quitting games for a while myself and getting back into cooking and cycling more, for the sake of my mental health. It's time for me to decompress and get my head together before hitting the old Xbox again for more pleasure and punishment.

sorry to hear !! dark magic is indeed annoying, but I have some hope for dark souls 2 , but no doubt exploits will be found for PvP.

I must have 50 ps3 games, but this is the only one i keep going back to !

saidinmilamber

penev10 wrote: »

Here's something I only found out recently and have never seen mentioned here - the damage bosses do is percentage based! Vageta311 kept going on about it in one of his low level runs. You can never be one-shotted by a boss.

Lol, Artiorias would like a word!

EDIT: And The Sanctuary Guardian

EDIT EDIT: And the Four Kings.

Retr0gamer

Sgt Hartman wrote: »

Well, after 2 and a half years of playing this I've finally killed my game disc (and a controller with it, about €70 worth of damage) There was only so many ninja flipping dark magic spammers I could take before I finally lost it.

Probably the wrong thread to vent this but I need to get it off my chest. On the bright side I've had great times with this game. PvPing, Darkwraithing, Darkmooning and helping people with bosses has been a joy as well as a pain in the ass at times. It's been ages since I've enjoyed a game this much. It's just last nite I finally got to the end of my tether with it. I've ordered DS2 but the nephew can have it, he's been looking fwd to it for a long time now so he'll be delighted when he gets it. I'm quitting games for a while myself and getting back into cooking and cycling more, for the sake of my mental health. It's time for me to decompress and get my head together before hitting the old Xbox again for more pleasure and punishment.

krudler

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Bed of Chaos is usaully a boss people complain about as being one of the worst in the game

Have to agree though that the art of a decent boss battle has been somewhat lost in recent years.

Big time, every boss in Dark Souls requires a different approach, some you'll walk over using magic, others its all about rolling and dex weapons, others need to be tanked up for etc. using one method will get you mostly nowhere. There's a massive sense of achievment finally putting a boss down, Ornstein & Smough, Artorias, Manus, The Four Kings, all of them were definitely a deep breath and sit back on the couch moment for me, getting a boss down to little health and having that sense of excitement keeping you on your toes is something that's sorely missing from games these days.

penev10

saidinmilamber wrote: »

Lol, Artiorias would like a word!

EDIT: And The Sanctuary Guardian

EDIT EDIT: And the Four Kings.

Yeah, I was thinking the Four Kings too, maybe he said most bosses....

saidinmilamber

penev10 wrote: »

Yeah, I was thinking the Four Kings too, maybe he said most bosses....

I defo did notice that some of them hit less hard than the local enemies, like O&S for example. The Four King's AoE explosion frequently one-shotted me at full health though :mad:

krudler

saidinmilamber wrote: »

Lol, Artiorias would like a word!

EDIT: And The Sanctuary Guardian

EDIT EDIT: And the Four Kings.

and either Super Ornstein or Super Smough, stupid lard arse with his stupid big lightning arse attack :mad:

Kirby

krudler wrote: »

Big time, every boss in Dark Souls requires a different approach, some you'll walk over using magic, others its all about rolling and dex weapons, others need to be tanked up for etc. using one method will get you mostly nowhere.

I dunno. I beat Capra, Sif, Stone Giant guy, four kings, nito and Gwyn the same way. Shield up, poke with spear. Most of their moveset can be blocked if you have 40 endurance and a good shield....so it was kinda safe with the same method every time. It's why I one shotted alot of them. I didn't need to learn the encounter because I just stood there like a moron with my shield up. It worked.

So not every boss required different strats. Just some of em. The butterfly I had to just roll about until he landed. At the time I didn't have a decent magic shield so yeh, that required a bit of different play. Ornstein and Smough gave me the most trouble by far. I basically had to zerg Ornstein, then kite Smough around the room with a bow. His electric butt slam was just grrrr. Seath was just zerg from behind so very simple and the hydra guy you just stand there until his heads lunge at you. The gimmick bosses like Ceaseless and Bed of Chaos don't really count.

Edit : Forgot a few. The Gargoyles are the same. Tank and spank. Artorias the same. Quelagg the same...just avoid the lava. Gaping dragon the same. You can even block his splat from above.

penev10

krudler wrote: »

and either Super Ornstein or Super Smough, stupid lard arse with his stupid big lightning arse attack :mad:

Its this playthrough he talks about it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JajbSi_wBqE&list=PLF264991245ADE660

I must've gotten the one-shot thing wrong

Sgt Hartman

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Nah, a workmate of mine almost went crazy when he came off those things too soon. Xanax is where it's at

Retr0gamer

Kirby wrote: »

I dunno. I beat Capra, Sif, Stone Giant guy, four kings, nito and Gwyn the same way. Shield up, poke with spear. Most of their moveset can be blocked if you have 40 endurance and a good shield....so it was kinda safe with the same method every time. It's why I one shotted alot of them. I didn't need to learn the encounter because I just stood there like a moron with my shield up. It worked.

So not every boss required different strats. Just some of em. The butterfly I had to just roll about until he landed. At the time I didn't have a decent magic shield so yeh, that required a bit of different play. Ornstein and Smough gave me the most trouble by far. I basically had to zerg Ornstein, then kite Smough around the room with a bow. His electric butt slam was just grrrr. Seath was just zerg from behind so very simple and the hydra guy you just stand there until his heads lunge at you. The gimmick bosses like Ceaseless and Bed of Chaos don't really count.

Edit : Forgot a few. The Gargoyles are the same. Tank and spank. Artorias the same. Quelagg the same...just avoid the lava. Gaping dragon the same. You can even block his splat from above.

Pah coward! I do like there's many different methods to beating bosses, proper role playing!

penev10

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I do like there's many different methods to beating bosses, proper role playing!

Exactly it should be a cause for celebration rather than vilification the fact you can "turtle" it if you wish. If it was a broken mechanic or 80% of all players used that style then it would be an issue.

I've played it with loads of different builds (a pure sorcery, 2 different DEX, 2 different STR, a pyro, a low-level and a "spellsword") and each makes some fights or areas easier than the other but none felt broken.

Zero-Cool

Well bed of chaos was a pain in the hole but done and dusted. Now to upgrade my ugi and then back to the 4 kings!

Kirby

Most people don't play like that which is a good thing I suppose. All the people Ive showed the game to or the streams on twitch roll about and stuff. I was always like "That seems hard. What if you mistime a roll?" and then they do and die :P. I like my "heaviest armor? Check. Big ass shield? Check" style though. Makes me feel invincible. That's what Ill be doing in Dark souls II.

krudler

Kirby wrote: »

Most people don't play like that which is a good thing I suppose. All the people Ive showed the game to or the streams on twitch roll about and stuff. I was always like "That seems hard. What if you mistime a roll?" and then they do and die :P. I like my "heaviest armor? Check. Big ass shield? Check" style though. Makes me feel invincible. That's what Ill be doing in Dark souls II.

I only tank up for the Four Kings, my fave build was my high dex one, Uchi +15, Balder Sword +15, light armour, grass crest shield, havel's ring, cloranthy ring, ninja mask. Gigantic damage output. Loved fighting bosses like Artorias where one mistime could end you, really kept you on your toes, and it was fun getting stuck in when guys who summoned you were way off lobbing overpowered magic at bosses and you're right in their face rolling around them.

saidinmilamber

Zero-Cool

4 kings? More like 4 b1tches!!! YAAAAAAAAAA