Reaction Sparring

whitelightrider

Hi folks,

Im currently going for my black belt in April and need some training help. Im looking to improve my reaction sparring but end up getting hit first each time.
Is there anything I can do at home to try and improve this?

Massimo Giorgianni

HI,

Several fighting sports/ martial arts have couple of exercises designed appositely for the purpose you mentionned. They would usually focus timing/distance for striking, footwork strategies and/or mechanics, etc.. but they will be uneffective if you don't train them with a sparring partner first.

Once you have trained and understood them you can start working on it through visualization exercises such as "shadow boxing", "starting blocks mechanics", etc..

Those trainings aspects are also part of our basics. I don't Know where you are based, but if you are in Dublin you can drop in our school ( I run a Wingtsun course in Dublin city center ), if only for couple of classes as well, and we would focus on sharpening these particular aspects while you’ll be with us. Otherwise any other Striking discipline ( Thai Boxe, Kick Boxe, etc..) will also do the job.

Barry.Oglesby

whitelightrider wrote: »

Hi folks,

Im currently going for my black belt in April and need some training help. Im looking to improve my reaction sparring but end up getting hit first each time.
Is there anything I can do at home to try and improve this?

Is reaction sparring a very specific type of sparring. ie. is it a "game" specific to your discipline?

smacl

It's worth remembering that speed and timing are very different things. Wim Demeere's book covers this subject pretty well, and includes drills to improving timing and reaction speed.

whitelightrider

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Is reaction sparring a very specific type of sparring. ie. is it a "game" specific to your discipline?

Hi Barry, we use it during Kumite or free fighting in Karate. Its to spot the opponents intention to attach and react to it and get there first.

draylander

Maybe not what your looking for but a good article nonetheless
http://www.rosstraining.com/articles/juggleyourway.html

Torakx

draylander wrote: »

Maybe not what your looking for but a good article nonetheless
http://www.rosstraining.com/articles/juggleyourway.html

Thats interesting.
Very encouraging too!
Im kind of a late starter at 30 and any edge i have is more motivation for me that i do have a chance to compete.
Ive been able to juggle since i was a kid and can go up to four now
It does make you focus peripherally alot too as you need to not directly look at them but instead kind of straight ahead.A good way to improve peripheral with juggling is to look past it at a person/object as you juggle.This forces you to relax and get into the "zone" with your body and i find i can concentrate on people and talking at the same time with practice.I imagine that its good for combat when you need to think and react at the same time,with moves you previously drilled.Never thought before of this in relation to fighting though!
So i guess i will try to keep that up, to keep my reflexes and coordination sharp.
Its actually not a bad workout if you juggle for over 20 mins.Good cardio or at least an ok warmup
Thanks for that reminder,i might have let the juggling go if i had not seen this post!

yomchi

whitelightrider wrote: »

Hi Barry, we use it during Kumite or free fighting in Karate. Its to spot the opponents intention to attach and react to it and get there first.

Why not just get there first as opposed to reacting to something. Be first, let him react

HammerHeadGym

Reaction is always faster than action. It's basically to do with how the information is stored. When you decide to attack, you move from the realm of unconcious reaction (think flinching) into concious action.
As an example, imagine throw a ball at a beginners face, usually his hands come up to cover himself, if you were to tell him first, he'd stop to think and probably miss.
I have an article on this somewhere if you can wait a few days for me to find it.

yomchi

Reaction is always faster than action

How is that measurable?

If you mean reaction will always beat action, then you are Completely and utterly wrong mate. Action will always beat reaction everytime for very obvious reasons. In fact some very clever person gave them each a title that defines which one is in motion before the other one decides to respond.

Charlie3dan

HammerHeadGym wrote: »

Reaction is always faster than action.

Even if that were true (and I'd question whether it is) it's not necessarily always the best tacting in fighting.

I think thread title might not be exactly clear. I think Whitelightrider is looking for tips on improving re-actions for sparring/ fighting. I could be wrong but that's what I would have thought.

yomchi

I think Whitelightrider is looking for tips on improving re-actions for sparring/ fighting

Or maybe some counter techniques.

Sid_Justice

yomchi wrote: »

Why not just get there first as opposed to reacting to something. Be first, let him react

Great Judo coach Jack Denis from Lusk used to always shout at his students "Be the First to React". Which means be the first to act etc. I always thought it was the best way of doing judo, don't wait to counter, go out and throw him first.

smacl

yomchi wrote: »

Action will always beat reaction everytime for very obvious reasons.

I wouldn't say always, I've seen some pretty effective counter punchers who aren't just relying on speed, they draw their opponent in. There are plenty of effective techniques out there that are based around your opponent committing to a move first. Hitting hard first is a great strategy, but it's not the only one, particularly if it makes your intentions obvious. The following quote from an article on the OODA loop explains this quite well.

The key is to obscure your intentions and make them unpredictable to your opponent while you simultaneously clarify his intentions. That is, operate at a faster tempo to generate rapidly changing conditions that inhibit your opponent from adapting or reacting to those changes and that suppress or destroy his awareness. Thus, a hodgepodge of confusion and disorder occur to cause him to over- or under-react to conditions or activities that appear to be uncertain, ambiguous, or incomprehensible.

Look at some of Amir Khan's early fights for some examples of this.

yomchi

smacl wrote: »

I wouldn't say always.

Within the contect of being defensive it will, what you're talking about there through the OODA loop is pre-empting the action by becoming proactive or being offensively defensive. Two different things, but slightly.

whitelightrider

Charlie3dan wrote: »

Even if that were true (and I'd question whether it is) it's not necessarily always the best tacting in fighting.

I think thread title might not be exactly clear. I think Whitelightrider is looking for tips on improving re-actions for sparring/ fighting. I could be wrong but that's what I would have thought.

Spot on Charlie. Im looking to improve my re-actions. I find that Im slower to react to an opponents moves so find that he's either in for the point before I react, or almost out when I get to react.

Also any recommended combos for sparring would be great!

Niall Keane

"the opponent moves first, but I arrive first" - tai chi Chuan classics

We can use draws, "enticing the opponent into the void", but also combined with refined minimal movement, look at the amount of beginners who seek to parry with their hands, dropping their guard at the same time where an elbow brush would do, also timing, once you can effectively guard you don't need to beat his punch, you can listen for rhythms, I guarantee he won't land 3 strikes before I can land one counter, hence the snake and tortoise symbol of Zhen Wu the god of martial arts, attack and defence entwined, there is no separation!

Charlie3dan

You really need a partner to work on re-action. If you are working on this in your own time by yourself you can only work on speed really.

The other person doesn't even need to be a martial artist just someone who can provide a stimulus and continue to change it so you don't get into a set rhythm.

So for example, person stands behind you so you can't see them, you stand in kamae and they touch either hand or either leg alternately and you have to throw any technique with that hand or leg as fast as you can. Then get them to touch two at a time, clearly spacing out which is first and which is second to touch you. you have to attack with the corresponding limb in the correct order and again it's any technique. You can make it harder by increasing the number of techniques. Changing the number of techniques each time, adding new techniques etc.

Also for face to face from kamae again, get your partner to use just two different types of stimulus (example: open the hands quickly is the first one, move forward with the body is the second). One stimulus is for a kicking technique and one is for a hand technique. So you must watch what he does first and you can't pre-empt it. Then try to land the set technique (and only the set technique) as fast as possible.

So for example,
1: See their hands open: you attack maegeri.
2: Their body moves forward: attack gyakuzuki

It’s actually more difficult than it sounds so if you think you are unbelieveably slow at first don’t worry, just go as fast as you can.

That’s 2 exercises to start with anyway, increasing the amount of sparring you do along with this and you should see improvements.

I hope that's explained well and easy to follow and hope it helps!

Massimo Giorgianni

whitelightrider wrote: »

Hi folks,

Im currently going for my black belt in April and need some training help. Im looking to improve my reaction sparring but end up getting hit first each time.
Is there anything I can do at home to try and improve this?

I was thinking about tips but realised that I don't know if you are you sparring for KO or for Points - light contact or full contact ?

Damo W

whitelightrider wrote: »

Hi folks,

Im currently going for my black belt in April and need some training help. Im looking to improve my reaction sparring but end up getting hit first each time.
Is there anything I can do at home to try and improve this?

http://www.theshotokanway.com/winningkumite.html

http://www.theshotokanway.com/wayneottointerview.html

Possibly you could post a clip from you tube of the ‘usual’ shotokan kumite that your are training for, so that the contributors can tailor their advice.

I no longer practice Shotokan and was less than average at kumite, but here is some standard advice.

The best answer I can come up with is – Fight. Preferably with someone better than you, faster than you and stronger than you. That will put you under the most pressure and force your reactions to improve. BTW I would also include doing competitive drills with your sparring partner e.g. one person trying to punch the other, with the other trying to block and counter. Both parties are trying to hit each other and not get hit. This type of thing is the basis of successful sports karate training. It’s all competitive.

Obviously some time would need to be spent learning the technique involved in counter punching, but the real development is done when it is ‘under pressure’ if that makes any sense.

Reaction is just response to stimulus. When you increase the stimulus, you need to increase the response or else:(. No doubt that an improved fitness level will naturally sharpen your mind and your body so you will react faster but to get better at counter punching, you need to do lots of counter punching under pressure.

This of course is all IMHO....

whitelightrider

Massimo Giorgianni wrote: »

I was thinking about tips but realised that I don't know if you are you sparring for KO or for Points - light contact or full contact ?

Hi Massimo, apologies. Its for points and its light contact.

HammerHeadGym

yomchi wrote: »

How is that measurable?

Any physical process that removes mental analysis has a faster time. The expression 'reaction is faster than action' doesn't mean my reaction is your action. It means a physical process which bypasses my brain and gets a response from the nervous system, will be faster than one that doesn't.

yomchi wrote: »

If you mean reaction will always beat action, then you are Completely and utterly wrong mate.

Well don't tell Anderson Silva, his career (along with all your favourite counter punchers) is built on punching second. I think he has an 66% (approx, cant really remember) record of punching his opponents after they initate the attack.

yomchi wrote: »

Action will always beat reaction everytime for very obvious reasons.

Sure, if I try to do the exact same thing that you do. But what if I threw a jab as a counter to your round kick, would you still beat me?

yomchi wrote: »

In fact some very clever person gave them each a title that defines which one is in motion before the other one decides to respond.

Your hilarious attempt at sarcasm not withstanding, this simply isnt true. You mean you could punch my face, faster than I could raise my hand from my chin to my forehead?
It's due to adding a mental process to the action. Like if you suddenly decided to think about tying your laces instead of just doing it.

Anyway, I misinterperted op's question. My advice would be a top and bottom bag. Excellent for hand eye co-ordination and for speed training.

yomchi

Your hilarious attempt at sarcasm not withstanding, this simply isnt true. You mean you could punch my face, faster than I could raise my hand from my chin to my forehead?

I wasn't being bleedin' sarcastic and just as you'd flinch to cover your face, I'd kick you in the balls.

Now that's sarcasm.

HammerHeadGym

My mistake bro. *Hug*












*Massive knee in bollix during hug. :cool:

yomchi

HammerHeadGym wrote: »

My mistake bro. *Hug*












*Massive knee in bollix during hug. :cool: