littlewoods : Can't contact. Bank won't put stop on payment

RangeR

I'll try to keep this short. I am well versed in basic consumer rights but I'm in a specific conundrum so would appreciate a little assistance.

Ms RangeR recently purchased a few items from littlewoods.ie totaling approx €430. Something funky happened with the order completion and she never received a confirmation email. When she went on site, she couldn't see an account or customer number. There was no order number but she could view the details of that order. Anyway, I'm digressing...

The order was made on Jan 21 and advised that delivery would be on Jan 27 as all items were in stock.

On Jan 28, after a no show, Ms RangeR emailed the company to see if there was a delay. Also checked the order on the site. All order lines said "Credit Refused". She rang the bank and they said there was no issue and that they took the money.

Ms RangeR tried ringing littlewoods. On hold for 20 minutes. Gets through to an agent. That agent couldn't give her any information and says she has to transfer her to another department. Gets disconnected. Tried this 2 or three times. Anyway, Littlewoods are a shambles and I don't want to mention them again. Other than to say that we emailed them to say cancel the order and that we would be issuing a credit card chargeback as we couldn't contact them any other way. This is purely now a point of principle for a company that make it so difficult to make contact.

So, Ms. RangeR rings bank to initiate chargeback. This is where it gets interesting and this is where I need the assistance. Bank now says that money wasn't taken from the account but only an authrisation for the amount was issues. This means that Littlewoods can take the €430 at any time. We asked the bank to cancel this authorisation but they said that they couldn't. There was nothing they could do.

I cannot accept this as it's our account and we are issuing an order to the bank to cease any and all payments to littlewoods.

I can't tell the bank that "I'm pretty sure you can't do that". I need to know exactly what to tell them to make them take notice. Exactly what financial regulation, what law, what whatever.

I know that we are within the 7 days distance selling directive as we tried to cancel order on 28th. This doesn't seem to be good enough for the bank

If this was a direct debit issue, I'd be right at home. It's not so I'm not. Please help.

3DataModem

You can't do a chargeback on an unsettled pre-authorisation.

A painful situation...

1. Write to bank telling them to transaction was not completed and you want and settlement disputed.

2. Write to Littlewoods insisting they don't settle the transaction. Maybe they don't plan on doing it (they can't cancel the pre-auth) but better to write just in case.

3. If a package arrives don't accept at door and return to sender.

RangeR

Thanks for that. Can I cancel a pre auth? Can I put a stop on the account for either littlewoods or a stop on everything [until we are sure the issue is resolved]?

Dealing with littlewoods is proving to be impossible and I can't find a postal address. This is why I'm trying to work it from the bank angle.

Worst case is we can cancel the card tomorrow or wait until [if] littlewoods fulfill the order, do a chargeback then as we no longer want them having any of our money. They are extremely unprofessional.

I find it hard to believe that the bank can do nothing with our account upon our instruction. It's our account, not littlewoods.

wmpdd3

Just a point, when I cancelled my credit card last year so to avoid a double gov stamp duty all the pending charges were on the bill 30 and 60 days later, so cancelling doesn't seem to stop the card form working once your have auth the payment.

Not sure what the case is when you have cancelled the payment too, get the bank to clarify.

January

From http://www.littlewoodsireland.ie/help/en/privacy-terms.page

Email us on queries@littlewoodsdireland.ie, or call us on 01 811 2222, fax us on 01 811 2292 or write to us at Shop Direct Ireland, Cape House, Westend Office Park, Blanchardstown, Dublin 15.

dub45

You could also try contacting IPSO.

http://www.ipso.ie/section/ConsumerCornerPaymentCardsFrequentlyAskedQuestions

RangeR

January wrote: »

From http://www.littlewoodsireland.ie/help/en/privacy-terms.page

Yup, eventually found that address. Funnily enough, I work 5 mins away from them. They WILL be seeing me tomorrow. Calm but assertive FTW.

Zab

Kind of a strange one RangeR. I'd suggest that if it is indeed their system that they can't cancel the pre-auth (and I can see at least some reasoning behind this) then don't get worked up trying to fight a system you can't change even though it seems like they're taking liberties with your money. Just do a chargeback if littlewoods do proceed with the transaction, which it's actually sounding like they won't (they consider it "credit refused").

RangeR

Zab wrote: »

Kind of a strange one RangeR. I'd suggest that if it is indeed their system that they can't cancel the pre-auth (and I can see at least some reasoning behind this) then don't get worked up trying to fight a system you can't change even though it seems like they're taking liberties with your money. Just do a chargeback if littlewoods do proceed with the transaction, which it's actually sounding like they won't (they consider it "credit refused").

Yup, I would tend to agree. It's just when Ms. RangeR gets stressed, I start taking personal offence.

I didn't explain it properly in the op. The credit refused probably relates to the fact that when littlewoods first tried to pre-auth the card, the bank stopped it as a random credit check. After Ms. RangeR confirmed security check, the pre-auth was allowed. The entire order process seemed borked. No account number given, no order number given and the order seems to be fundamentally broken as each order line is "credit refused".

This makes me scream on so many levels. But I'm calm now. She is going to the bank today to have a word, then a polite visit to littlewoods in Blanch to discuss.

wyndham

The pre authorisation will expire/fall off after a number of days anyway if they don't do a completion. The number of days depends on the type of card? From my own experience preauthorising cards, I don't think there is any way of cancelling it. I have tried as a merchant. I got around this by doing a completion to the value of €0.01 using the host reference number. This finalises the transaction and closes it out.

wmpdd3

wyndham wrote: »

The pre authorisation will expire/fall off after a number of days anyway if they don't do a completion. The number of days depends on the type of card? From my own experience preauthorising cards, I don't think there is any way of cancelling it. I have tried as a merchant. I got around this by doing a completion to the value of €0.01 using the host reference number. This finalises the transaction and closes it out.

Handy to know.

micheal_hunter

AVOID LITTLEWOODS IF YOU HAVE ANY SENCE.
they will charge you and then cancel your account and order and not tell you anything leaving your to try and find a company that arent even in ireland but just have an irish number that is diverted to an english office, it would guess that dublin address is probably an empty office building.
AVOID

hdowney

wyndham wrote: »

The pre authorisation will expire/fall off after a number of days anyway if they don't do a completion. The number of days depends on the type of card? From my own experience preauthorising cards, I don't think there is any way of cancelling it. I have tried as a merchant. I got around this by doing a completion to the value of €0.01 using the host reference number. This finalises the transaction and closes it out.

I have a question based on this. You say pre authorisation will expire after a number of days, and this depends on type of card used. can you tell me does this also apply to debit cards and where i would find information on the number of days that need to pass before the pre auth would fail?

thanks

Our man in Havana

For Ulsterbank debit cards it can take 14 to 28 days for pre auths to clear.

hdowney

I have an AIB one, and it took well over a month. The only thing was this coincided with their accounts being up the swanny, and they put the money back into my account (i didn't know this until after - all i knew was there was money in my account which as far as i knew was mine to spend) and then when i spent it and they finally authorised the debit payments they made me overdrawn (i don't have an overdraft). this made me extremely annoyed.

foggy_lad

hdowney wrote: »

I have an AIB one, and it took well over a month. The only thing was this coincided with their accounts being up the swanny, and they put the money back into my account (i didn't know this until after - all i knew was there was money in my account which as far as i knew was mine to spend) and then when i spent it and they finally authorised the debit payments they made me overdrawn (i don't have an overdraft). this made me extremely annoyed.

the banks mistake so dont allow them force any charges onto you over this!

hdowney

they didn't put any charges on me for going overdrawn, however i did have to put the account back into credit in order to use it again.

hdowney

they didn't charge me anything for going over but i did have to put the money in to bring my account back to credit