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Moving sockets a few inches

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  • 01-02-2011 10:03pm
    #1
    Robbie71
    Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭


    I need to move a double socket a few inches to the left to fit a new cabinet. The cable is to tight to reach the new position .
    Is it ok to use a junction box in the old socket space so I can extend the cable the few inches necessary?

    I was also thinking about crimping the cables but am open to suggestions.


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    #2
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Twisting them together and then using connectors is better than crimping i think, especially them crimps with the colour coded plastic insulators anyway.

    Its not too bad to connect in the old position as long as its still accessible such as a removable cover over the original box. I was never big into connectors which are then not accessible.

    Are the original cables coming up or down, maybe you could lower the socket if they are coming up or put it higher if they are coming down and so get extra length on them.


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    #3
    Davy
    Registered Users Posts: 19,340 CMod ✭✭✭✭Davy


    I wouldn't twist solid cores like that anymore, they give way to easily over time. They break from the start of the twist. I would only bend back when need to fill a terminal. Would always twist stranded though, with the insulation still on.


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    #4
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Davy wrote: »
    I wouldn't twist solid cores like that anymore, they give way to easily over time. They break from the start of the twist.

    Do they? Thats a new one to me i have to say. They break easy if they have already been under a terminal screw then twisted, but i never seen them break when freshly stripped then twisted. I was at a house i did 22 years ago last year and the sockets with twisted cores were still fine when i was replacing some that got dampness in them.

    In a connector i used to tighten the second screw more than the one nearest the insulation. Over tightening will weaken the cores no matter what type they are.

    Having said all that, i never really twist them together these days, just double them back for sockets etc ecen when there is 2 cables. But for connectors i think twisting is better as connectors cant take much tightening as the back of metal in them cracks easy enough.


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    #5
    Robbie71
    Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭Robbie71


    Thanks for replies,

    I can only go sideaways as i want to clear the cabinet

    So it would be ok to
    join the cable with connector strips or junction box,
    keep this connection within the the old socket space ( this is recessed into block wall)
    cover this with a blank cover.

    These are solid core cables. Should I bend the copper back on itself(double up) before inserting into the screw termninal?


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    #6
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Robbie71 wrote: »
    Thanks for replies,

    I can only go sideaways as i want to clear the cabinet

    So it would be ok to
    join the cable with connector strips or junction box,
    keep this connection within the the old socket space ( this is recessed into block wall)
    cover this with a blank cover.

    These are solid core cables. Should I bend the copper back on itself(double up) before inserting into the screw termninal?

    Well i only twist the solid cores these days on the rare occasions i use connectors as i think its a better connection.

    But doubling back and putting a core into each end of each connector will work. I would twist them myself though for connectors and if you do make sure to cut off the bit that was in the socket terminal as this is when they break when twisting because of the flattened core that was under the socket terminal screw. Get 32 amp connectors as they have a bit of room.

    When i suggested moving the socket up or down i meant as well as moving it sideways. Moving it up if cables are coming down or down if cables are coming up will give you extra slack to then move the socket sideways and possibly avoid extending the cable.


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    #7
    M cebee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭M cebee


    ya- i don't twist solid
    although i seeen it done

    -stranded no prob

    i see hager(website) said to bend back single stranded rather than twist - for mcbs

    better contact apparently


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    #8
    Davy
    Registered Users Posts: 19,340 CMod ✭✭✭✭Davy


    M cebee wrote: »
    ya- i don't twist solid
    although i seeen it done

    -stranded no prob

    i see hager(website) said to bend back single stranded rather than twist - for mcbs

    better contact apparently

    I would twist first, and then bend back. I wouldn't always bend back twisted, but if room in the terminal i would.


    Robbie the ones you found were probably done right so they were ok, but a slight imprint with a pliers makes all the difference over time imo. Because of this I always try use the stripper tool, so used to it that im just as quick and never mark the copper.


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    #9
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    M cebee wrote: »
    ya- i don't twist solid
    although i seeen it done

    -stranded no prob

    i see hager(website) said to bend back the stranded rather than twist - for mcbs

    better contact apparantly

    You would see the solid cores twisted on plenty of old installations into sockets especially. I have seen them solid cores break when they have been removed from under terminal screws then twisted together because the cores were partly flattened. If they are freshly stripped then twisted i cant see much problem when outting into connectors.

    I never twist them solid cores myself except on the rare occasions i use connectors and even then i dont do it every time. But properly twisted together and not then flattened under the terminal screw i cant see a major problem.

    MCB`s are grand because the terminals surround the cable in them and its not just a screw with a small surface area going into them.


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    #10
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Davy wrote: »
    I would twist first, and then bend back. I wouldn't always bend back twisted, but if room in the terminal i would.


    Robbie the ones you found were probably done right so they were ok, but a slight imprint with a pliers makes all the difference over time imo. Because of this I always try use the stripper tool, so used to it that im just as quick and never mark the copper.

    Yes i have seen it happen where the copper was dented from a previous terminal alright. No doubt that would not be good to then twist. It all depends on the given situation.

    The 22 year old installation was one i did so hopefully they were ok because it was done right. I was a 2nd year at the time:). Where does the time go:eek:


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    #11
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Davy wrote: »
    I would twist first, and then bend back. I wouldn't always bend back twisted, but if room in the terminal i would.

    Yea for the mcb with stranded thats what i would do, but it probably is a better connection not twisting them the way the mcb terminal surrounds the wire and closes on it. Either way should be good enough once its not loose.


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    #12
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    M cebee wrote: »
    i see hager(website) said to bend back single stranded rather than twist - for mcbs

    better contact apparently

    Do they mean bend back rather than just twist and not bend back?
    If the wire is just twisted and not doubled back then its a very small area for the mcb terminal to grip. The terminal would nearly be closed before it starts getting a good grip on the cable then. Double back required especially on the smaller cables.


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    #13
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    The worst form of twisting which i hate is fellas twisting the full lenght of the stripped earths from 2 T&E cables at sockets etc so only one earth sleeve is needed.When you later have to modify them its a right pain to seperate them.


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    #14
    M cebee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭M cebee


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    Do they mean bend back rather than just twist and not bend back?
    If the wire is just twisted and not doubled back then its a very small area for the mcb terminal to grip. The terminal would nearly be closed before it starts getting a good grip on the cable then. Double back required especially on the smaller cables.

    http://www.hagerbr.com.au/popup.php?scr=1024&id=84&blockid=51&action=faq

    good read actually that page-must go through it sometime


    i don't know should solid be twisted at all- bend them back and fill the terminal imo anyhow


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    #15
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    M cebee wrote: »
    http://www.hagerbr.com.au/popup.php?scr=1024&id=84&blockid=51&action=faq

    good read actually that page-must go through it sometime


    i don't know should solid be twisted at all- bend them back and fill the terminal imo anyhow

    Yea its only in strip connectors i`d consider twisting 2 solid cores together, after freshly stripping them only. Sometimes just put the 2 solids straight through the connector without twisting, but twisted without dented cores should be a good connection in them strip connectors.


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