Doberman ear cropping

Ricardo G

I see American blue/rednose pitbulls with cropped ears also, are these not natural?? i was always under the impression that they were.
The whole procedure sounds disgusting to be honest and anyone that even contimplates doing this to a puppy should really have their heads examined:(

luvdogs

no, these are not natural....and in breeds like this they are cropped very short :mad:

The Sweeper

Fighting dogs often have cropped ears to prevent injury or advantage in the ring from another dog grabbing their ear. Seriously though, folks who fight dogs don't really have the dog's best interests at heart.

You can tell the difference between a cropped ear and a natural - the cropped always look misshapen or disproportionate to the dog's head. Any time you can't tell, picture a German Shepherd or Husky with those large, forward facing triangular ears - those are ears with naturally stiff cartilege that stand up. The cropped ears look nothing like that.

Tranceypoo

Gerry Asstrix wrote: »

the animal nazis

Nice

Zapperzy

Ricardo G wrote: »

I see American blue/rednose pitbulls with cropped ears also, are these not natural?? i was always under the impression that they were.
The whole procedure sounds disgusting to be honest and anyone that even contimplates doing this to a puppy should really have their heads examined:(

In Ireland? I would be highly suspicious of them and why they have the ears cropped and of course who done it! I have heard of dog fighters in america just cutting them off with a knife or scissors. Any vet found doing it here I would imagine would be in serious trouble.

Buckaru

I Completely agree you should love you dog for its nature not its appearance. I agree with this procedure being illegal and it should be made this way all over the world as it is completely unnecessary.

Wisco

I have seen ear cropping done in the US and I can assure you it's a horrible, unneccessary and very bloody procedure. The US vet that I saw do it only knew how because he had worked for an older vet who knew how to do it- fortunately even the Americans don't teach it in vet school any more.
I wholeheartedly agree with it being illegal in Ireland and any site you find on Google that says it 'improves hearing' or 'prevents injury' is just an idiots excuse for promoting this barbaric surgery.
And yes, any vet in Ireland who is found to do this, or tail docking, risks losing his or her veterinary license, which is exactly as it should be.

seamus

Ricardo G wrote: »

I see American blue/rednose pitbulls with cropped ears also, are these not natural??

No, very few breeds have naturally pointy ears. Most bull breeds have ears similar to this. Generally quite short ears which don't entirely flop over. The "root" of the ear flap (known as the "pinna" FWIW) can be naturally quite thick and calcified like a cauliflower ear so it stands up, but the top half is floppy and hangs over like most other dogs' ears.

Buckaru

"The pups only few days old,so you can have look them,and you leave a deposit if you like one.

Their tails are already cut."

I saw this on done deal.ie and this is someone selling these puppies so even though its illegal people are still getting it done its terrible.:mad:

Wisco

Buckaru wrote: »

I saw this on done deal.ie and this is someone selling these puppies so even though its illegal people are still getting it done its terrible.:mad:

Good reason not to buy from that breeder. And since vets are not allowed to do it, you can bet it was a DIY job, which means extra pain (no painkillers or antibiotics) for the poor little things.
I'd be inclined to report the ad.

Buckaru

Wisco wrote: »

I'd be inclined to report the ad.

I agree completely and its a recent enough add for pups, they are rottweilers now but it the same cruel treatment. They are beautiful pups as well and my heart goes out to them with the pain they probably went through.Heres a pic of the beautys i copied from the add.

Ailishcrehan

Wisco wrote: »

And yes, any vet in Ireland who is found to do this, or tail docking, risks losing his or her veterinary license, which is exactly as it should be.

I volunteer with an animal rescue group and emailed the Veterinary Council of Ireland who advised us that tail docking and ear cropping is not illegal in Ireland but if a vet carries out this procedure, they can be brought in front of the ethics committee. Docking/Cropping for aesthetic purposes is not illegal BUT is not generally carried out by any reputable vet. No doubt, the dogs advertised with tails docked have been done by someone who still thinks it is an acceptable practice or a vet who still carries out this barbaric procedure.

Not too long ago, we took in 6 orphaned boxer pups for hand rearing, who had their tails docked at 3 days old. Their stumps got so badly infected as a result of the procedure (and I use that term loosely) and no doubt, if they survived to adulthood (owner took them back when we asked too many questions) they will most likely have problems as bone was exposed once the tails were butchered.

I have reported numerous ads on different websites selling dogs with tails docked and have been told that as it is not illegal in Ireland, the ads shall remain up sadly, and there is little documentation to prove that it is completely unethical either to use a reference to guide these websites in the right direction.

There is nothing nicer than seeing lovely Jack Russells, Rotties, Dobes and other breeds that traditionally have had tails docked for their appearance and 'breed standard' with lovely wagging tails.

Whispered

I thought ear cropping was illegal and tail docking is just frowned upon?

Wisco

Ailishcrehan wrote: »

they can be brought in front of the ethics committee.

I would imagine the ethics committee can get the VCI to not renew the vet's licence if the vet in question has repeatedly committed offenses/acts of cruelty.
Veterinary Ireland tells it's members not to do either of these things.

Ailishcrehan

From what information I can find, it is 'unrestricted' in ROI. The VCI statement says that it is unethical, but it is not illegal as of yet. Just shows how backwards Ireland is in comparison with most other countries. There is a link below to the statement by the VCI
http://www.veterinaryireland.ie/Links/PDFs/Mutilations%20-%20Policy%20-%20Revised%2028.5.09.pdf

Ailishcrehan

either way, it is a disgrace that is is NOT illegal as of yet; until it is written in legislation, websites will allow dogs to be sold online with tails docked and ears cropped and there is very little control over prosecuting people for docking and cropping if it is not illegal.

fatmammycat

I think it's really awful seeing photos of those mutilated pups. I wouldn't buy a dobermann docked or cropped.

Cherry Blossom

As someone who has been considering getting a dobe for about 20 years now OP can you answer me one question, why on earth did you get one if the look of the pup offends you so much? The only reason I know of that these dogs are cropped is to make them look more menacing as they tend to be bought as status symbols of 'hard manship' :rolleyes: and guard dogs which incidently is a job they are completely unsuitable for. If I ever end up purchasing one from a breeder I will not get one from some one who docks and/or crops or ever has done, to any dog. Why on earth would anyone want to do this to a dog is completely beyond me

You are completely against docking, but see no reason not to chop off part of the dogs ear, what kind of logic is that?

I hope you realise that this is a procedure that requires the dog to be anaesthetised and that dobes are predisposed to certain genetic conditions that do not go well with anethetic bearing in mind that the only person you are going to get to do this will be completely untrained.

lrushe

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

I hope you realise that this is a procedure that requires the dog to be anaesthetised and that dobes are predisposed to certain genetic conditions that do not go well with anethetic bearing in mind that the only person you are going to get to do this will be completely untrained.

They can also have problems with blood clotting so even the smallest cut can bleed for a long time similar to hemophillia in people.

cjf

Docking and cropping not illegal but kennel club won't accept docked and cropped dogs in the ring anymore not sure on the date they brought that in but dogs born after that date have to have full ears and tails so a y reputable breeder who is breeding for show won't dock or crop- it's a barbaric and inhumane procedure that no pup should ever have to endure cropping as for "the look" of it don't think a dobie with natural ears is any less impressive than one wit cropped ears and don't think an intruder is really looking at a dobies ears or any dogs ears if they climb over your fence!! Good luck wit your pup OP and remember it's in their instinct to guard and protect their family so this doesn't need to be encouraged, socialisation with people and other dogs is so important in raising a happy and well balanced dobie!!

Zapperzy

cjf wrote: »

Docking and cropping not illegal but kennel club won't accept docked and cropped dogs in the ring anymore not sure on the date they brought that in but dogs born after that date have to have full ears and tails so a y reputable breeder who is breeding for show won't dock or crop- it's a barbaric and inhumane procedure that no pup should ever have to endure cropping as for "the look" of it don't think a dobie with natural ears is any less impressive than one wit cropped ears and don't think an intruder is really looking at a dobies ears or any dogs ears if they climb over your fence!! Good luck wit your pup OP and remember it's in their instinct to guard and protect their family so this doesn't need to be encouraged, socialisation with people and other dogs is so important in raising a happy and well balanced dobie!!

Not sure on cropped ears but the Irish kennel club will still accept docked dogs in shows. It's probably the English kennel club your thinking of, over there your not allowed to show a dog with a tail docked after a certain date at a show where the visitors pay an entrance fee.

es2003

I'm almost 100% sure cropping ears here IS illegal? I have a dane and at dog shows NONE of the usually cropped breeds are cropped, dobermans, boxers or danes. None. I can't remember where I read it but i'm fairly sure it is, that is too much of a coincidence! Docking is legal I think, it may have a limit on the age. I think over 4 days is generally frowned apon??
As far as my oppinion on cropping, I used to loathe it, and loathe the people that did it too. While I am still not a fan, the people who do it aren't always evil (in places where its legal), they are taking a small risk with the surgery and it is purely cosmetic but if it is legal then it is their choice. The dog will forget about it, it won't be emotionally scarred for life or anything. A lot of the people who show and crop their dogs ears take better care of their dogs then the average person here, where a lot of people treat their dogs as lawn ornaments and don't actually do anything with them. The dogs aren't starved, and in the case of great danes it takes a LOT of dedication to get those ears to stand, it can take up to a year! That shows dedication to your dog, even if it is for what you may think is the wrong reason.
I wouldn't do it, but where people have the choice (in america etc) and are responsible about aftercare etc I am not going to chastise and insult them.

Docking I have less of a problem with. I study agricultural science and you learn how the lambs tails are docked at 2 days old ( yes lambs are born with long tails!) the nerves are not fully formed so it is not so painful. It is done by something like an elastic band, which cuts off circulation and then the tail just drops off. Its probably similar in puppies, the lambs show no pain. If you are against docking you should probably not eat sheep haha!

seamus

es2003 wrote: »

I'm almost 100% sure cropping ears here IS illegal?

I'd be surprised if there is legislation in Ireland which deals specifically with ear cropping. Considering that we don't even attempt to regulate breeding in any way shape or form, it would be odd for ear cropping to be catered for.

I imagine it probably falls under the usual statute of causing needless or undue suffering for the dog. Tail docking may not legally fall under this statute because there's an academic argument over whether it does or does not, especially in pups.

But given that ear cropping requires serious treatment and healing times, there's little doubt that it causes needless and undue suffering for the animal.

es2003

If it wasn't illegal, why would there be no cropped dogs at dog shows? I know there are people there that probably would if it was legal. Having a couple hundred dogs uncropped when its legal? unlikely?

andreac

es2003 wrote: »

If it wasn't illegal, why would there be no cropped dogs at dog shows? I know there are people there that probably would if it was legal. Having a couple hundred dogs uncropped when its legal? unlikely?

Because its against the rules of IKC dog shows to have a dog there with cropped ears.
You are allowed at the international shows in Ireland to show a dog with cropped ears but that would have been imported like that and not cropped in this country.

es2003

That makes sense then why they wouldn't be at dog shows, but even if you look at done deal or gumtree or one of those advertising websites, there are plenty of unshown and unregistered dogs there and still I don't see any of them cropped? I've only seen one dog in Ireland with its ears cropped, it was a rescue fighting pitbull.

TooManyDogs

All of this cropping/docking is to do with what people perceive as normal. In America dobies/danes/pitbulls are routinely cropped so that's what people think the breed should look like, people expect unregistered dogs to look 'normal'. Over here because we're not used to looking at dogs with cropped ears 'normal' for us is full ears. So over here unregistered dogs still need to look 'normal' so that people will buy them so very little demand for cropping. Even if Irish laws never catch up with the rest of europe the fact that docked tails is illegal in most european countries this will slowly change what our thoughts on a 'normal' tail is for a rottie/dobie/JRT. People will see full tails in the show ring and calendars etc and will eventually think docked tails look strange.

sionnaic

First of all there is no valid reason on the face of the earth to justify mutilating a dog - and cropping of any kind is multilation. Why anyone would put their pet, that they supposedly care about, through completely unnecessary pain and trauma is complete incomprehensible.

Anyway, whenever I see pictures of a dog with cropped ears I always think they look out of proportion - too small for the dog's head. My little mutt (we think he's got probably has some GSD in him - he's a rescue so we'll never know for sure) has beautiful naturally pointy ears - but they're massive in proportion to his head - two big triangular bat ears
And then there's my other fella - a basset hound with possibly the world's longest ears...honestly it looks like he has two carpets hanging either side of his head!

The important thing though is that they're both as nature intended (well nature helped along by selective breeding on the basset's part I suppose) Personally I think all the "traditionally" docked and cropped breeds are so much more attractive when they're not interfered with. I would never ever ever touch a breeder or vet who advocated such barabaric practices with a bargepole.

CaseyAnn - your guy is just beautiful!!

faw1tytowers

I adopted my Staffie after sime eejit thought it would be agood idea to crop her ears as a pup. She now has one ear!

Cropping is completly Cosmetic and if no benefit!

carwash_2006

I saw a Dobie pup a few years ago owned by someone not from here. After a couple of weeks the pup was going around with his ears wrapped in bandages and when I raised my eyebrows at this the kids (who were walking him, yes they were only about 8 or so:rolleyes:) informed me that he had been attacked by another dog. Must have been a dog that hated floppy ears on a doberman :rolleyes: cause no other part of the pup was touched

When the bandages finally came off the ears actually did look a little like they had been attacked by something. They did stand up, but they looked very strange and were very uneven. I don't know who he found that agreed to do it for him, but they obviously were not very good at it. So anyone who is thinking of mutilating their dog in this way, be warned, even if you find someone to do it, you will probably end up wishing you had not. Especially if your dog doesn't survive the process due to an inexperienced person administering anaesthetic, or possibly loses an ear from improper care.