Spanish bike shops launch campaign against Chain Reaction Cycles

Chips Lovell

A group of Spanish bike retailers have launched a campaign to lobby the big equipment brands not supply online retailers like Chain Reaction. Story here.

mloc123

CRC is cack for pricing these days anyway, find wiggle cheaper for most things now

smacl

Might as well ask amazon to stop selling books, because they're hurting local book stores. Traditional business models suffer as newer ones emerge, and like it or not, the only thing most manufacturers care about is the bottom line.

Note that I don't think this is a good thing, just something that is very difficult to change.

BeerNut

I love this:

“The only reason why this big low-cost online shop can be successful on foreign markets is that they are offering products at a lower price than through the official distributors and with free delivery and customer service in the local language.”

Delivered free, of irony.

Canis Lupus

These kind of campaigns really just come across as sour grapes cos you know damn well they'd do the same as CRC if they could.

Lumen

This is excellent publicity for CRC.

What do we want? HIGHER PRICES! When do we want them? NOW!

seamus

Spaniards are as bad as the Irish for this union mentality which compels them to call any form of competition "unfair" and "damaging".

It definitely says something about a company when a retailer based €1,500 km away can provide products cheaper than the one based 5 km away.

Chips Lovell

I think they're on a hiding to nothing and there's an air of King Canute to it. It's the self-importance they attach themselves that is particularly galling, that they're doing all the work to win customers only to have the likes of CRC snatch them away at the till.

The gas thing is that CRC started out as an ordinary bike shop like theirs.

Schnell

Yeah, small business complaining about big business, business is business. Then again I imagine the price of repairs will rise as shops will have to start making their money from them.

smacl

seamus wrote: »

It definitely says something about a company when a retailer based €1,500 km away can provide products cheaper than the one based 5 km away.

Not to mention that wages in Spain are also considerably lower than in Ireland.

califano

Hail 2 Da Thief

Bloody Irish are taking our jobs & eating our canaries! :pac:

petethedrummer

Give us back our fish.

petethedrummer

And give Robert Millar his Vuelta.

omri

I've been in touch in distributor of certain product and asked them if i could buy x amount of it. Told them simple thing - I give you cash - you give me product that you are distributor. Sounds simple and logical. Well wasn't. First of all they required me to have registered certain type of company - so that they could sell me product. Then they said i have to have a shop where I can show the product other wise i can fek off. Then they told me that i cant sell it online. And last but most interesting was the price. They would sell it to me for 75% of recommended price but would not let sell it for less than the price they recommend me selling this thing to the public.

So in another words. Cant get stuff from the manufacturer have to go to distributor - he has to get his cut.

cantalach

seamus wrote: »

It definitely says something about a company when a retailer based €1,500 km away can provide products cheaper than the one based 5 km away.

But can the retailer 5km away purchase from the same distributor as the retailer 1,500km away? As I understand it, frequently they cannot. Manufacturers typically restrict distributors to a particular geographic area and retailers are forced to use the appointed distributor for wherever they are based. I've heard from more than one retailer that the discrepancy in wholesale prices from one country to another is so big that, when buying one-off items, it is often cheaper for them to pay full retail price to the likes of CRC or Wiggle than to buy it from the local Irish distributor. That's just wrong.

So if people want to complain that the actions of the Spanish retailers are anti-free market, I've no problem with that. But at least be consistent and also condemn practices like exclusive national distribution rights. These are anti-competitive and completely contrary to the free market principles on which the EU's single market is supposed to operate. They result in a playing field that is far from level.

kierank01

It works both ways, I wanted an electronic component a couple of weeks back, and was able to get it on a Spanish website for €100 less than an Irish website (it dosen't even exist in an Irish B&M shop).

TheBlaaMan

cantalach wrote: »

But can the retailer 5km away purchase from the same distributor as the retailer 1,500km away? As I understand it, frequently they cannot. Manufacturers typically restrict distributors to a particular geographic area and retailers are forced to use the appointed distributor for wherever they are based. I've heard from more than one retailer that the discrepancy in wholesale prices from one country to another is so big that, when buying one-off items, it is often cheaper for them to pay full retail price to the likes of CRC or Wiggle than to buy it from the local Irish distributor. That's just wrong.

So if people want to complain that the actions of the Spanish retailers are anti-free market, I've no problem with that. But at least be consistent and also condemn practices like exclusive national distribution rights. These are anti-competitive and completely contrary to the free market principles on which the EU's single market is supposed to operate. They result in a playing field that is far from level.

For example...
try ordering any Specialized product online from Evans for that matter - you get a message in the Checkout box that says "Your basket contains UK Delivery Only items, and can only be delivered to a UK delivery address."

No can do. Spesh prohibit sale of their brand 'outside the territory', meaning that they protect the distribution channels in-country from the vagaries of the online market forces........:mad:

iregk

I wouldn't be too dismissive of this lads. For those that remember about 6 or 7 years back HMV brought a big case up against cdwow who were offering free deliverly from jersey and much lower prices. They won and cdwow was hit with a levey on every they sold to bring their prices inline with HMV.

Unrealistic

iregk wrote: »

I wouldn't be too dismissive of this lads. For those that remember about 6 or 7 years back HMV brought a big case up against cdwow who were offering free deliverly from jersey and much lower prices. They won and cdwow was hit with a levey on every they sold to bring their prices inline with HMV.

What CDWOW was actually snagged for was selling CDs licensed only for SE Asia and not for the UK. There's nothing wrong with selling from Jersey and avoiding VAT. That's the cornerstone of play.com's business model and they are still going strong with it.

seamus

iregk wrote: »

I wouldn't be too dismissive of this lads. For those that remember about 6 or 7 years back HMV brought a big case up against cdwow who were offering free deliverly from jersey and much lower prices. They won and cdwow was hit with a levey on every they sold to bring their prices inline with HMV.

CDwow were shipping from Hong Kong if I remember correctly from the packages I used to get. Aside from the licensing issue mentioned, they were also managing to avoid import tax because the value of each package was below the minimum threshold.

Customs were threatening to stop all CDwow packages coming through.

Tbh it sounds like the Spanish retailers should be grouping together and boycotting the brands who insist on stupid licencing clauses. At the very least they should be allowed to price the gear however high/low they want. It's not CRC's fault that they're signing up to stupid deals.

gzoladz

The campaigners perhaps should ask themselves what some spanish companies are doing in Latinamerica...

jdt101

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

For example...
try ordering any Specialized product online from CRC (or from Evans for that matter - you get a message in the Checkout box that says "Your basket contains UK Delivery Only items, and can only be delivered to a UK delivery address.")

No can do. Spesh prohibit sale of their brand 'outside the territory', meaning that they protect the distribution channels in-country from the vagaries of the online market forces........:mad:

this is open to a challenge as it is anti free trade under EU legislation.

victorcarrera

Tidow claims that CRC are "destroying the way dealers do buisness".
Wheras he is campaigning to destroy the way customers prefer to conduct their buisness.
CRC and similar are popular because they are open 24/365. You can browse their shops from anywhere in the world at your leisure. You can get accurate information on a product at the click of a button. You don't have to waste time and money ringing around and travelling to collect items and they generally have an excellent returns policy and customer service.

loyatemu

iregk wrote: »

I wouldn't be too dismissive of this lads. For those that remember about 6 or 7 years back HMV brought a big case up against cdwow who were offering free deliverly from jersey and much lower prices. They won and cdwow was hit with a levey on every they sold to bring their prices inline with HMV.

fat lot of good it did them - HMV are now f**ked as are virtually all B&M record shops. Online shopping is killing many traditional business models - in some ways its a shame, but things do move on and the market decides.

Canis Lupus

Unrealistic wrote: »

What CDWOW was actually snagged for was selling CDs licensed only for SE Asia and not for the UK. There's nothing wrong with selling from Jersey and avoiding VAT. That's the cornerstone of play.com's business model and they are still going strong with it.

I was of the impression that Play were forced to come to an agreement over that.

tomasrojo

Canis Lupus wrote: »

I was of the impression that Play were forced to come to an agreement over that.

I know, because it happened to my wife, that customs were seizing parcels coming in from Play.com above a certain value and holding them until the recipient payed VAT. She just stopped using Play, but perhaps they caved and came to an agreement with the taxman here. It was cheeky of them anyway, as they'd already made an agreement with the UK to pay the VAT. Not sure of the details of what those agreements might be.

Bunnyhopper

jdt101 wrote: »

this is open to a challenge as it is anti free trade under EU legislation.

I wonder if anyone who knows more about EU trade regulation than I do (wouldn't be hard) could comment on whether this case might or might not have any relevance.

It doesn't refer to the sale of physical goods, but the advice of the advocate general does include this:

Kokott said that the idea of selling on a territorial exclusivity basis was "tantamount to profiting from the elimination of the internal market".

"Pub landlady's EU case paves way for Premier League rights revolution"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/feb/03/eu-law-sports-rights

Undercover Elephant

jdt101 wrote: »

this is open to a challenge as it is anti free trade under EU legislation.

Depends. The manufacturer can't usually stop distributors from selling outside their territory. But they can stop then "actively selling" outside their territory. CRC and Evans are well geared to supplying the Irish market as well as the UK, and Spesh might well argue that they would be actively selling. CRC can avoid this by not making stuff available outside the UK.

This is all speculation. I have no idea what is actually in the CRC/Spesh contract, but I bet the lawyers went over it with a fine toothcomb on the competition law issues. It's probably a greyer area than we might like.

TheBlaaMan

Just to clarify........as lawyers are being referenced....:cool:

My comment about Specialized and protected markets was related to Evans in the UK and their online sales............not to Chainreactioncycles. CRC dont stock Spesh bikes at all. Period.

Lumen

On the subject of Specialized, I passed someone (in Dublin) on a Spesh MTB this morning with a McConvey's Cycles sticker on the downtube.

I can't see anything about Specialized shipping restrictions on their website.

I would have asked him about it were it not for the the roadie code of silence towards truffle hunting commuters.

TheBlaaMan

@Lumen

Correct. As far as we in the ROI are concerned, it appears that suppliers in NI aren't subject to these restrictions, hence McConveys will happily ship FoC to us. I bought a Spesh Secteur from them for my young lad a few months ago - great price too.

Getting a shipment in from an online purchase in the UK is another story.

I was a bit 'loose' in regards to the confusing comment about CRC and have edited my post to correct my intended comment.... Apologies